Jump to content

Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


Thin2win

Recommended Posts

On 8/17/2022 at 4:47 AM, Middler said:

+100. Professional golf may never be the same, whether that’s a good or bad thing remains to be seen. We’re becoming ever more litigious as a society, often as a weapon more than seeking justice.

If pros can play LIV and the four majors, and keep their endorsements/sponsors, the PGA is done (obviously).

As I noted in another thread, when/if this happens to the NFL,NBA and MLB - I wonder what “fans” will say?

 

3 hours ago, revkev said:

I'm not seeing how the PGA tour is done if LiV continues.  It will be altered but there are plenty of very good players in the world and there will be enough that stay on tour because of its tradition to keep the train moving there.  I agree with your opening statement and would go a step further that it will never be the same again.  It remains to be seen if that's good or bad.

Note I said if players can play LIV AND the four majors…

If that happens, why wouldn’t more top PGA players make the move? Once there’s a critical mass of top players on LIV, more and more will go. The top PGA players already pick and choose which PGA events they enter, based on $ purse and maybe prestige - money is already a big factor in a PGA players schedule. It’s well known the 4-5 majors are the top players main goal. If they can play 14 LIV events and get paid 3-4X in prize money AND play in majors, how many will stay loyal to the PGA for years to come? The morality of it isn't going to be enough to save the PGA IMO.

The above is also the reason those who think the PGA should just let LIV players enter any events they like, LIV or PGA, are deluded. The huge LIV purses will attract more top players, and the PGAs business model suffers considerably - they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they allow that. They may well be forced to eventually, but to just acquiesce makes zero sense.

And think about all the lower tier PGA players, and those who haven’t been started their careers, both who don’t have the stars generational wealth - they’re making a living like the rest of us. Guaranteed LIV money versus nothing for missing a PGA cut when you come out of college golf, hoping to establish a life and family?

To be clear I think LIV is a disgrace, but with such deep pockets it’s not a fair fight. Unfortunately my outlook on how this will play out is evolving, in a bad way. If Majors, endorsement/sponsors, broadcasting $ accept LIV, the temptation and momentum will kill the PGA in time. If OTOH OWGR, majors, sponsors, media keep LIV at arms length, the PGA may survive in reasonable health, but not unscathed. Fan support plays a role in the long run too, but that’s an unknown for now. And who knows maybe the Saudis will lose interest in 5-10 years, by then the PGA could be as significant as the Korn Ferry is today. Sad.

  • Like 3
  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 TSR w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06 w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec w P2 Touch Tour
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s all been thoroughly documented in the other thread? I hope we’re not going to start over or run (another) concurrent thread…

  • Like 1
  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 TSR w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06 w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec w P2 Touch Tour
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, shootmyage said:

can you tell me some of phil's lies , also the pga sold the media rights for $8.5 billion , like i said the media in archives is forth a big number so phil's $20 billion is not too far off .. 

The TV deal is for $7 billion not 8.5 and if you consider $13 billy "not too far off" then wooo boy 🤐

 

 

 

  • Haha 1

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Undershooter said:

The TV deal is for $7 billion not 8.5 and if you consider $13 billy "not too far off" then wooo boy 🤐

 

 

 

As the $7 billion figure over a nine-year span shows, Mickelson’s $20 billion claim is outlandish. However, there are more than live rights at play. The tour also owns the highlights and a treasure chest of archived assets.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, shootmyage said:

As the $7 billion figure over a nine-year span shows, Mickelson’s $20 billion claim is outlandish. However, there are more than live rights at play. The tour also owns the highlights and a treasure chest of archived assets.

And mickelson and every other pga tour member and past member knows this. It’s no different than sports teams owning their media and being able to use the likeness or names of their players under contract or former players

we all get it you are mickelson homer. Hate to burst the bubble but he’s not the chap you think he or that he claims to be. Maybe pickup Shipnuck’s book and see for yourself 

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, shootmyage said:

As the $7 billion figure over a nine-year span shows, Mickelson’s $20 billion claim is outlandish. However, there are more than live rights at play. The tour also owns the highlights and a treasure chest of archived assets.

Not too far off or outlandish? Which is it

 

And I wasn't going to bring it up before, but since you mentioned it.. Isn't the 20 billi in digital assets all supposed to be archived? So that wouldn't even take into account the 7 billion of tv money.

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And mickelson and every other pga tour member and past member knows this. It’s no different than sports teams owning their media and being able to use the likeness or names of their players under contract or former players

we all get it you are mickelson homer. Hate to burst the bubble but he’s not the chap you think he or that he claims to be. Maybe pickup Shipnuck’s book and see for yourself 

Thats also not to mention the fact they were able to keep the tour running during Covid and host events by using X amount of their reserve funds. They still have to pay staff amongst thousands of other expenses. Its not just as though they get money from the TV contract and can simply put it all as part of prize money for players. Its a business and has a ton of other expenses.  

NLU had a really good pod on it and the DL3 was great in laying out several aspects of the tour business. I dunno ... of course there will be people on both sides of this. I should likely just stop weighing in as it is something I'm pretty passionate about have a hard time seeing how others justify a lot of it. 

  • Like 4

 ⛳🛄 as of Oct 31, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   TBD: Follow here: Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: King SZ 3 wood 15.5*

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Middler said:

That’s all been thoroughly documented in the other thread? I hope we’re not going to start over or run (another) concurrent thread…

Merged Over. 

 ⛳🛄 as of Oct 31, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   TBD: Follow here: Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: King SZ 3 wood 15.5*

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Thats also not to mention the fact they were able to keep the tour running during Covid and host events by using X amount of their reserve funds. They still have to pay staff amongst thousands of other expenses. Its not just as though they get money from the TV contract and can simply put it all as part of prize money for players. Its a business and has a ton of other expenses.  

NLU had a really good pod on it and the DL3 was great in laying out several aspects of the tour business. I dunno ... of course there will be people on both sides of this. I should likely just stop weighing in as it is something I'm pretty passionate about have a hard time seeing how others justify a lot of it. 

Exactly. People forget that despite their non profit status the employees of the tour do earn salaries as do executives and so on. Plus all other expenses like travel, per diem, any contracts they have, anything that’s on the course like tee box trashed signs if they put them up, etc.

I debate every time I come into this thread about responding or posting. As middler mentioned a lot of the same stuff over and over and some posts that provide no value to the thread 

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Middler - I understand your argument - the key would be tournament sponsors. If the tournament schedule as we know it in the US continues under the PGA tour it will retain its fair share of top players. It will be forced to offer larger purses, it’s already doing that, and I believe no cut fields - cuts are really antiquated anyway - tournaments market themselves based on who is in their field and then if a guy gets cut he doesn’t get paid? That makes no sense for the players.

 

Of course I would agree that if tournaments and sponsors bailed to LiV it would spell even bigger trouble and possibly the end of the PGA tour. I missed that in your original post. I just saw players in the 4 majors and the LiV. I don’t exactly know how you keep players out of the two Opens and only the Masters can keep them out of the Masters. They already have sone preposterous players in their invitational. 
 

Regardless too this dilutes golf in the short term. Only time will tell how that turns out. 

  • Like 4

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, revkev said:

@Middler - I understand your argument - the key would be tournament sponsors. If the tournament schedule as we know it in the US continues under the PGA tour it will retain its fair share of top players. It will be forced to offer larger purses, it’s already doing that, and I believe no cut fields - cuts are really antiquated anyway - tournaments market themselves based on who is in their field and then if a guy gets cut he doesn’t get paid? That makes no sense for the players.

 

Of course I would agree that if tournaments and sponsors bailed to LiV it would spell even bigger trouble and possibly the end of the PGA tour. I missed that in your original post. I just saw players in the 4 majors and the LiV. I don’t exactly know how you keep players out of the two Opens and only the Masters can keep them out of the Masters. They already have sone preposterous players in their invitational. 
 

Regardless too this dilutes golf in the short term. Only time will tell how that turns out. 

I'm a bit more concerned about LPGA. They said they would entertain a discussion, but more importantly the purse for their events is significantly lower then PGA Tour events. 

  • Like 2

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, revkev said:

I don’t exactly know how you keep players out of the two Opens and only the Masters can keep them out of the Masters. They already have sone preposterous players in their invitational. 

The USGA and R&A can simply say that any player under suspension from one of the sanctioned (or whatever term they want to use) tours is ineligible to participate in the respective open championship

  • Like 1
  • Hmmm 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thing to consider.  We are all focusing on the "current" players who are mostly already obscenely rich, and chastising them  for trying to get even more obscenely rich.  What happens when the LIV begins, in this era of NIL, to approach the top college golfers, who are not rich, and in fact may be poor, and have families who are not rich, and begin to offer the top finishers in the collegiate championship life changing money to play the LIV, just to draw them away from the PGA, kinda like the NFL AFL reference I posted earlier.

  Now you can say maybe some will be so dedicated to win the majors,  if those are exclusively PGA, but guaranteed money will make most of the top college golfers think very hard IMO.

Edited by stuka44
  • Like 2

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

One more thing to consider.  We are all focusing on the "current" players who are mostly already obscenely rich, and chastising them  for trying to get even more obscenely rich.  What happens when the LIV begins, in this era of NIL, to approach the top college golfers, who are not rich, and in fact may be poor, and have families who are not rich, and begin to offer the top finishers in the collegiate championship life changing money to play the LIV, just to draw them away from the PGA, kinda like the NFL AFL reference I posted earlier.

  Now you can say maybe some will be so dedicated to win the majors,  if those are exclusively PGA, but guaranteed money will make most of the top college golfers think very hard IMO. 

Good luck trying to predict which college kid will become a star. Only a handful make it up to the top.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The USGA and R&A can simply say that any player under suspension from one of the sanctioned (or whatever term they want to use) tours is ineligible to participate in the respective open championship

Then they wouldn't be "open" would they? Doing that would diminish those tournaments. What they can do is condition the exemptions to only players not under suspension and make them have to qualify each year. I wonder how many LIV players would go that route.

Edited by LICC
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LICC said:

Good luck trying to predict which college kid will become a star. Only a handful make it up to the top.

You are right, but with most things with this topic,  It won't really matter if they are %100 right in signing players the only point is that by signing them, they can't play on the PGA tour.  If they sign enough, the chances that the PGA gets the next star is greatly reduced.  That's the point.  It won't matter to them at this point if they pay a kids who bomb, $100,000, if they get the right one that's all that matters.   If lawsuits are won or lost, doesn't matter.  It has become, unfortunately in my opinion, solely about destroying the PGA at this point.  Making the PGA look petty, and spoiled over not being the only game in town, and they are slowly succeeding. The PGA had better stop believing they can't fail.  Enough people are leaving at this point for the PGA to just keep saying "they are the problem" is becoming a hollow argument.  If a man is married and divorced 5 times, it  gets hard to say the man doesn't have some part in the failings. 

And I just saw something yesterday I think, about 5 more signings to LIV to be announced after Fed EX Cup. I can only imagine it must be at least one or two playing in the Fed Ex Cup.  What a strategy, let them win money in the Fed Ex playoffs, and then announce they are leaving the tour.  If true I wonder who those names will be?

Edited by stuka44
  • Like 4

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

You are right, but with most things with this topic,  It won't really matter if they are %100 right in signing players the only point is that by signing them, they can't play on the PGA tour.  If they sign enough, the chances that the PGA gets the next star is greatly reduced.  That's the point.  It won't matter to them at this point if they pay a kids who bomb, $100,000, if they get the right one that's all that matters.   If lawsuits are won or lost, doesn't matter.  It has become, unfortunately in my opinion, solely about destroying the PGA at this point.  Making the PGA look petty, and spoiled over not being the only game in town, and they are slowly succeeding. The PGA had better stop believing they can't fail. 

And I just saw something yesterday I think, about 5 more signings to LIV to be announced after Fed EX Cup.  If true I wonder who those names will be?

LIV has a limited number of players. They can't just go sign every college kid, and the ones they do, most won't pan out and they will kick them out and waste their own money.

I'm sure LIV will have more signings coming up. Probably only one, Cam Smith, will be significant.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, LICC said:

LIV has a limited number of players. They can't just go sign every college kid, and the ones they do, most won't pan out and they will kick them out and waste their own money.

I'm sure LIV will have more signings coming up. Probably only one, Cam Smith, will be significant.

You are right again, presently.  Do we know what their ultimate goals are, after surviving(if they do),  this initial and expected  pushback from the PGA isn't to form a "minor league" system where players can get paid and  promoted.  I think the PGA needs to behave like the one part in the movie "World War Z".  When 9 people at the PGA think something isn't possible, they need to appoint a 10th man, whose job it is to prepare and voice concerns, be the devils advocate, and prepare as if when the message said "zombie" they meant "zombie".

Edited by stuka44
  • Like 2

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, LICC said:

Then they wouldn't be "open" would they? Doing that would diminish those tournaments. What they can do is condition the exemptions to only players not under suspension and make them have to qualify each year. I wonder how many LIV players would go that route.

It’s not really an open because not everyone can play in them. a golfer needs to qualify in some manner whether it’s an exemption based on world ranking, winning a tour event, they local, regional qualifying events.

Not being suspended is another stipulation for qualifying to play.

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s not really an open because not everyone can play in them. a golfer needs to qualify in some manner whether it’s an exemption based on world ranking, winning a tour event, they local, regional qualifying events.

Not being suspended is another stipulation for qualifying to play.

The other qualification requirement is handicap:  Any professional golfer or amateur with a Handicap Index that does not exceed 1.4 is eligible to enter. This is more about being competitive than a limitation.  But the point of the opens is that anyone can try and qualify and by imposing a limitation based on membership to some external organization they would definitely open them up to legal action associated with discrimination.  

 

  • Like 1

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • GolfSpy_APH changed the title to Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...