Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[LICC]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

Best of luck with that. Sort of like a train wreck, hard to ignore...

Please explain. 

[LICC]

2 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I agree with this sportswashing comment. I've never personally bought into the idea of it. While they may have the leaders there at each event hanging/playing with the Pros, they are not on TV. If they were on TV doing puff pieces, then I could see this idea. Maybe they are just big golf guys with ungodly amounts of money and use it so they can hang with some Pros?

I don’t think the Saudis are only in this for sportswashing. I think they see this as possibly making big profit in a few years. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they fold it up if it doesn’t. 

[chisag]

7 minutes ago, LICC said:

I don’t think the Saudis are only in this for sportswashing. I think they see this as possibly making big profit in a few years. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they fold it up if it doesn’t. 

 

... Here is the thing. LIV wanted to either tear down the PGA Tour (Norman) or become the predominant Tour for the best golfers in the world. The Saudi government never intended to be a second fiddle. They also never wanted to exist together as much as US LIV fans think that could work. Considering what they have already spent, I just don't see them ever being profitable at all let alone making big profits. I have a feeling with no fanfare or announcements of any kind, one day they will just cease to exist.  Of course this is all through the eyes of a US viewer and I may be naive about the future in a worldwide context.

[Middler]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:49 PM, LICC said:

I don’t think the Saudis are only in this for sportswashing. I think they see this as possibly making big profit in a few years. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they fold it up if it doesn’t. 

PIF is all about diversifying Saudi investments and generating a good return, it’s not just sportswashing at all costs. What we don’t know is how patient, or not, they may be - PIF has been characterized as among the least transparent sovereign wealth funds in the world. PIF has been in existence since 1971 so it’s not some new Saudi experiment, though MBS took control in 2015.

The $2B investment in golf is less than 0.3% of the fund, almost trivial to PIF overall. It is possible LIV will reduce the PGA to a shell of itself, and then the Saudis will stop supporting LIV if it doesn’t meet their (return and PR) objectives - that would leave professional golf in a mess…

[LICC]

The 1994 article Dottie Pepper referenced sounds like it could have been written this year:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1994/11/19/norman-golfing-for-greed-in-plans-for-world-tour/9a1e4fbf-87b6-4944-9f00-0b9414c9a28b/

[revkev]

11 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The USGA and R&A can simply say that any player under suspension from one of the sanctioned (or whatever term they want to use) tours is ineligible to participate in the respective open championship

I get that you can - it’s name then becomes a joke - I should have been clear earlier - of course you are correct. But excluding former Major winners in their prime, guys who would ordinarily exempt into the field? It dies cast a pall over the tournament IMO. 

[revkev]

5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Unlike the pga tour that has 150 person fields LIV is significantly smaller. You can’t get a bunch of thee guys every year because there’s no room for them. Many would be relegated to the Asian tour which unless LIV invests a bunch of money into isn’t going to give them anything the kft isnt. 
 

So another not so good idea 

Don’t you think that their plan is to expand their fields? I’m assuming it is. The 48 player limit was a ploy to get guys to sign quickly. 

[Thin2win]

18 minutes ago, revkev said:

Don’t you think that their plan is to expand their fields? I’m assuming it is. The 48 player limit was a ploy to get guys to sign quickly. 

Im sure they will expand, and I'm not so sure it was a ploy or just making sure that they started an event with the number of people the said they would. Had they come out and said 72 or 124 and struggled to fill that it would have been disastrous press. 48 does make it sound exclusive(think early facebook by invite only) and was a number they were sure they could hit.

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, revkev said:

Don’t you think that their plan is to expand their fields? I’m assuming it is. The 48 player limit was a ploy to get guys to sign quickly. 

I believe the goal is 72 iirc. That’s one’s foursome on every hole in a shotgun start.

 

 

[MGoBlue100]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:39 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:Maybe pickup Shipnuck’s book and see for yourself 

Shipnuck isn’t any better. I’ve never read or heard any athlete/player say anything good about him. 
 

https://www.golfwrx.com/676852/i-dont-trust-shipnuck-former-pga-champ-hits-out-at-author-of-new-mickelson-biography/

[MGoBlue100]

21 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Here is the thing. LIV wanted to either tear down the PGA Tour (Norman) or become the predominant Tour for the best golfers in the world. The Saudi government never intended to be a second fiddle. They also never wanted to exist together as much as US LIV fans think that could work. Considering what they have already spent, I just don't see them ever being profitable at all let alone making big profits. I have a feeling with no fanfare or announcements of any kind, one day they will just cease to exist.  Of course this is all through the eyes of a US viewer and I may be naive about the future in a worldwide context.

LIV management has stated that their model is Formula One. They eventually want to sell the teams and have Worldwide team competition as F1. They supposedly want to play three events in Australia next season. You don’t think a team of Cam Smith, Jason Day, Mark Leishman and Adam Scott would draw fans there and in other spots worldwide? Not that they can draw all four, but I think that is the idea for the ultimate 12, 14 or 18 teams. If they realize they have to go 72 holes to gain OWGR points, I’ll bet they’ll move that direction as well. 

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:

LIV management has stated that their model is Formula One. They eventually want to sell the teams and have Worldwide team competition as F1. They supposedly want to play three events in Australia next season. You don’t think a team of Cam Smith, Jason Day, Mark Leishman and Adam Scott would draw fans there and in other spots worldwide? Not that they can draw all four, but I think that is the idea for the ultimate 12, 14 or 18 teams. If they realize they have to go 72 holes to gain OWGR points, I’ll bet they’ll move that direction as well. 

If you think USA fans are crazy outrageous you've not seen Aussie fans in action, plus Golf is one of the most popular sports in Australia because the POOR can play. Midweek membership is so cheap a few hundred dollars, if you want to play in the Comp that day you pay $2 ???

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

LIV management has stated that their model is Formula One. They eventually want to sell the teams and have Worldwide team competition as F1. They supposedly want to play three events in Australia next season. You don’t think a team of Cam Smith, Jason Day, Mark Leishman and Adam Scott would draw fans there and in other spots worldwide? Not that they can draw all four, but I think that is the idea for the ultimate 12, 14 or 18 teams. If they realize they have to go 72 holes to gain OWGR points, I’ll bet they’ll move that direction as well. 

Based on the latest tumors 2 of those 4 are highly likely and it would not surprise me if Adam or Jason decide to join. Also, I do think we Americans and UK view golf in a different way than the rest of the world.  This I think will be the determining factor in whether LIV 54 has a half-life longer than a Copernicium 285.

[revkev]

21 hours ago, Thin2win said:

Im sure they will expand, and I'm not so sure it was a ploy or just making sure that they started an event with the number of people the said they would. Had they come out and said 72 or 124 and struggled to fill that it would have been disastrous press. 48 does make it sound exclusive(think early facebook by invite only) and was a number they were sure they could hit.

We agree - that’s what I meant by ploy - say 48 to get people think - gee I better jump now before all the doors are filled. 

[LICC]

6 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

LIV management has stated that their model is Formula One. They eventually want to sell the teams and have Worldwide team competition as F1. They supposedly want to play three events in Australia next season. You don’t think a team of Cam Smith, Jason Day, Mark Leishman and Adam Scott would draw fans there and in other spots worldwide? Not that they can draw all four, but I think that is the idea for the ultimate 12, 14 or 18 teams. If they realize they have to go 72 holes to gain OWGR points, I’ll bet they’ll move that direction as well. 

It remains to be seen if teams in golf can work. It’s not nearly the same as F1. 

[MGoBlue100]

8 minutes ago, LICC said:

It remains to be seen if teams in golf can work. It’s not nearly the same as F1. 

Not yet…

[MGoBlue100]

Can’t stand Alan Shipnuck, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let him be right about this one thing…  
 

 

[revkev]

This will be a rough couple of years - beyond a doubt the PGA tour is going to need to remake its model. Thinking this through further I’m wondering if a 60 man field with only 50 spots guaranteed while the between tournaments are also play ins for those last 10 spots.
 

 That gives hope for the do called 2nd tier. It keeps them around and might mollify some sponsors. It’s going to be quite the trick to retool and mollify sponsors that have stuck with the tour through thick and thin. Plus it still looks to me as if tour leadership has failed the players and now cost them around 8 months of development time. 
 

Perhaps they’ve been working behind the scenes though 

[shootmyage]

1st , the pga comm days are numbered , which will be great for the tour .

so the top 60 will be playing w/o a cut , what happens when a top 60 player has some bad rounts and falls to number 62 in the world ranks , do they boot him out to the cheap tour and pick up  number one from the  cheap tour , also would the top 60 change every month or year .

this sounds to me like a trickle down  theory and we know how that worked . this would be like having a business with 200 employes and  telling them  we are giving our top 60 workers a 50% raise the rest of you may find so scraps on the floor

i know the phoenix open gets $50-60 a day to get into the circus , who would want to pay more than $20 to watch  number 60 to number 120  play golf .

i read the article and the comments ( some were very good ) 

i don't know about his saying 7 players may go to liv after east lake , my guess is 5 ..

..

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by shootmyage

[LICC]

5 hours ago, revkev said:

This will be a rough couple of years - beyond a doubt the PGA tour is going to need to remake its model. Thinking this through further I’m wondering if a 60 man field with only 50 spots guaranteed while the between tournaments are also play ins for those last 10 spots.
 

 That gives hope for the do called 2nd tier. It keeps them around and might mollify some sponsors. It’s going to be quite the trick to retool and mollify sponsors that have stuck with the tour through thick and thin. Plus it still looks to me as if tour leadership has failed the players and now cost them around 8 months of development time. 
 

Perhaps they’ve been working behind the scenes though 

It’s really just the top 60 or so that have viewer appeal anyway. The trick will be doing enough for the up and comers that have to work their way up to the top 60.