Declaring a ball unplayable

[Pandaman]

I had a discussion with my club pro recently regarding whether you need to actually find your ball to declare it unplayable and take stroke and distance.

Obviously, to take back on the line or 2 club lengths you need to find it to get the reference point.  But for S&D that is irrelevant. 

In the scenario where you hit it off the tee into deep bushes and expect that even if you do find it it won't be very pleasant.  To not waste time searching you declare it unplayable and just take S&D.  rather than look.

His take on it was that you need to actually find it to be able to decide if it is unplayable or not (not illogical).  My thought was that if I can declare it unplayable at any time in any place, and its exact location has no bearing on where I hit from, and I cannot declare it 'lost', I can take S&D for unplayable, rather than hit provisional and not bother looking.  And avoid the potential risk one of my group finding it to give me a pig of a second shot.

I couldn't find a clear answer in the rules app. though I would interpret what I found as it being my thoughts that are correct.  Can any of you point me to a clarification. 

[Dutch Boy]

Rule 19 covers the relief options for an unplayable ball.

R19.2a states that Stroke and Distance is a relief option

[DaveP043]

Rule 18.1 says you may take Stroke and Distance relief at any time, no matter where your ball is.  You're not taking Unplayable Ball relief under Rule 19, you're working g under 18.1.  Rule 19.2 says you can take Stroke and Distance relief even if you don't know where your original ball is.  Your club pro is wrong, on this one.

[benb1989]

Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this

[LICC]

1 hour ago, benb1989 said:

Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this

The unplayable ball rule is one of the worst in the rules as far as it’s application. According to most, you can deem a ball unplayable even if it is entirely playable. The ball can be sitting perfectly with nothing hindering it being struck and you can still call it unplayable and take back of line relief. (I contend this is unethical and violates Rule 1 which requires honest play, but most don’t apply that to the unplayable situation.)

Then, after declaring an unplayable, the rule allows you to change your ball even if you can retrieve it. Makes no sense.

The unplayable ball rule is not the USGA or R&A rule makers at their best. 

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, benb1989 said:

Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this

No, you don’t have to be able to retrieve the ball; this has been demonstrated several times on the various tours with ball in trees and the use of cameras to see the identifying marks on the ball.   I see you are in England so he is the R&A discussion on identifying a ball.  

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-7

 

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, benb1989 said:

Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this

The second Bullet Point under 19.2 says:

"But to take back-on-the-line relief under Rule 19.2b or lateral relief under Rule 19.2c, the player must know the spot of the original ball."

To "know the spot of the original" means you must see the ball and identify it as yours.  You don't have to be able to retrieve it.  Each of the Relief options says you may use the original or another ball, another indication that you don't have to retrieve the original ball.  You should also review Interpretation 19.2/5, which talks about this issue.

[Pandaman]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:15 PM, DaveP043 said:

Rule 18.1 says you may take Stroke and Distance relief at any time, no matter where your ball is.  You're not taking Unplayable Ball relief under Rule 19, you're working g under 18.1.  Rule 19.2 says you can take Stroke and Distance relief even if you don't know where your original ball is.  Your club pro is wrong, on this one.

Thank you .  Very much appreciated.