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Muscleback Iron Review


JMiller

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This quest to play a knife is not for everyone I will be 100% honest when i first got this crazy idea to take the leap in play knifes I was very skeptical this was going to be a good decision. However I knew a couple of things that I wanted in my iron set that the AP2s just could not offer me.

 

First was the ability to feel where the ball was striking the face of the club, with a lot of players cavity you only can tell when it was hit good or poor not specific elements "that was two groove high on the face and a 1/4" towards the toe". This is important for me to be able to feel where the ball is hitting on the face so that i can make adjustments to my swing to get better contact on the ball, call it a training aid you have to hit a blade pretty well to get good results.

 

Secondly, i felt that the AP2 I just couldn't work the ball as much as I wanted to or as consistently, it was hard to dial in exact distances on partial swings at time for the fact that on a blade you can purposely hit it 1/2" towards the toe and take off 5 yards. Yes that sounds nuts and you might ask "why would you want to purposely miss the sweat spot of a club?" the answer is simple Spin and distance control you can still take a full swing but slightly miss the spot and change the ball flight characteristics.

 

Finally, I told myself that as a single digit handicap even a high one, if i can't hit the pure sweet spot then I probably need to stop playing golf, it is time to take the leap and see where it lands me in terms of skill and ability. Plus I played the Mizuno MP-60 LOVED the look and feel of the clubs those were pretty close to a blade without being one before I switched to the AP2s

 

I started out by just looking up as many blades as i could online and getting an idea of what I wanted to test hit based on appearance mostly. I went over to the PGA Superstore in Myrtle Beach SC prior to when i moved to NC recently. The Clubs they had included Nike VR Pro, Titleist 710 MB, Adams MB2, Mizuno MP69, Wilson FG62. I did not test the TM TP MB, Callaway Razer MB or Scratch SB-1. The scratch have a price tag that I wasn't willing to pay for a set $1200 plus tax all of the others that I tested were $900 plus tax. I am not sure if i saw the TM or Callaway's in the store, I'll admit I didn't look extremely hard in either of the sections that had those brands as I am not a fan of either one majority of the time. In hindsight i probably should have given both a chance if they had them in stock.

 

The PGA Super store is a super high volume store right near Broadway at the beach so they have A LOT of equipment on the racks and can custom order you anything. If you are an equipment junkie and go to myrtle beach stop in there and just look around at the sea of golf stuff they have in that store. Plus then they had radar based launch monitors to get a good compassion off of, they have now switched to the photograph based ones that are less accurate so be aware when testing clubs in there you need a base line for what you hit now compared to what you are testing.

 

I started where most people would Mizuno MP69 in the fitting cart with a KBS Tour X in it, I hit a 6iron to 195+ carry. This was my bench mark to compare all other blades that I would be testing. It is pretty well known that Mizuno makes some of the best feeling irons for under $1000.

 

I then hit the Titleist 710 and they felt WAY too firm for me, had a click sound to them at impact just all around not a good feeling blade even when hit pure in comparison to the MP69.

 

Next I went ahead and hit the Nike VR Pro Blades, I would rate these to have had a medium feel not firm but not supper buttery either. This was a good middle ground between the super soft blade and the firm click blade that the Titleist offered.

 

Afterwords, I then pulled out the Adams MB2 and hit that blade like pure S**T. I have to say that it was most likely the fact it had a KBS Tour Black S in it, WAY too soft of a shaft for me. I couldn't get a pure hit to save my life on those heads, the one or two I did get after a lot of tries felt really good. I would have to say with the proper shaft I would have to agree with the folks here at MGS that it is one heck of a good blade for the average golfer. It was softer feeling then the Nike but still not anywhere close to the soft feel of a Mizuno.

 

So My last club that I ended up hitting was a few days later from on a suggestion from the club builder that I go to in Myrtle Beach. He suggested the W/S FG62 at this point i was leaning towards the Mizuno MP69 for sure. I get the club off the rack it had a DG s300 in it still too soft a flex shaft but i can at least tolerate this one in comparison to the KBS Stiff shafts. First swing i purred it and OMG!!! I was blown away by how soft these irons felt. They feel just as good as the Mizuno MP69... So now the battle was on, I got the MP69 rebuilt from the fitting cart with the MP69, now it was down to two clubs everything else i tested got tossed out of my in consideration thinking. End the end W/S the little guy the unknown guy beat out the MP69 in the following categories.

--> Distance on center hits the FG62 was slightly better even with a too weak of a shaft for my swing.

--> Distance on slightly off center hits for the FG62 didn't lose as much distance in comparison to the MP69.

--> Feel on off center hits was amazingly butter soft but still you could tell that it wasn't exact for both clubs W/S felt only a touch better to me.

--> Workability on both clubs was amazing really couldn't tell you a clear winner on that category.

--> Appearance on both clubs is just sexy, they really engineered both heads to look amazing, this wasn't a factor at all when I made my decision.

--> Price tag wasn't really a factor either as they both retail at $900 this never came into my decision.

--> The offset on the FG62 is actually less then the MP69, win for W/S as I miss with a hook for this category.

 

If you have read my signature by now you know that i bagged the little guy W/S FG62 and here is how i ended up rating the blades I tested best to worse.

1) W/S FG 62 (offset, feel, distance gave it the slight win over the MP69)

2) Mizuno MP69

3) Adams MB2 (felt softer then the others the couple times i hit it good, offset is huge however on them so not for me anyways)

4) Nike VR Pro (yea this sucker preformed a lot better then i expected for a Nike brand club)

5) Titleist 710 MB (this was just too firm of a blade but if that is you thing check it out)

 

Here are the stats for the clubs that I researched before testing on the launch monitor in comparison to what i was hitting in the AP2 (2008 Model)

CLUB    LOFT    LIE    OFFSET    LENGTH    BOUNCE

Consistent Offset Models
Adams Idea Pro MB (1.5mm converted to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.059"    39.00"      IDK
4    24    61.0    0.059"    38.50"      IDK
5    27    61.5    0.059"    38.00"      IDK
6    31    62.0    0.059"    37.50"      IDK
7    35    62.5    0.059"    37.00"      IDK
8    39    63.0    0.059"    36.50"      IDK
9    43    63.5    0.059"    36.00"      IDK
P    47    64.0    0.059"    35.50"      IDK

Progressive Offset Models
Wilson Staff FG62
3    21    59.5    0.095"    39.25"      4.5
4    24    60.0    0.092"    38.75"      5.0
5    27    61.0    0.089"    38.25"      5.5
6    31    61.5    0.086"    37.75"      6.0
7    35    62.0    0.083"    37.25"      6.5
8    39    63.0    0.080"    36.75"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.077"    36.25"      7.5
P    47    64.0    0.074"    35.75"      8.0

Mizuno MP-69
3    21    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      2.0
5    27    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      2.0
6    30    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      3.0
7    34    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      3.0
8    38    62.0    0.102"    36.25"      4.0
9    42    62.5    0.102"    35.75"      5.0
P    46    63.0    0.094"    35.30"      6.0

Mizuno MP-68
3    21    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      2.0
5    27    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      2.0
6    31    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      3.0
7    35    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      3.0
8    39    62.0    0.102"    36.25"      4.0
9    43    62.5    0.102"    35.75"      5.0
P    47    63.0    0.094"    35.30"      6.0

Mizuno MP-67
3    22    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      3.0
4    25    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      3.0
5    28    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      4.0
6    32    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      4.0
7    36    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      4.0
8    40    62.0    0.110"    36.25"      5.0
9    44    62.5    0.100"    35.75"      6.0
P    48    63.0    0.100"    35.50"      7.0

Nike VR Pro Blade
3    21    59.0    0.115"    39.00"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.100"    38.50"      3.0
5    27    61.0    0.090"    38.00"      4.0
6    31    62.0    0.085"    37.50"      5.0
7    35    62.5    0.080"    37.00"      6.0
8    39    63.0    0.070"    36.50"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.060"    36.00"      8.0
P    47    64.0    0.060"    35.75"      9.0

Titleist Muscle Back (MB)
3    21    60.0    0.125"    39.00"      2.0
4    24    61.0    0.120"    38.50"      3.0
5    27    62.0    0.115"    38.00"      4.0
6    31    62.5    0.110"    37.50"      4.5
7    35    63.0    0.100"    37.00"      5.0
8    39    63.5    0.090"    36.50"      6.0
9    43    64.0    0.080"    36.00"      7.0
P    47    64.0    0.075"    35.75"      8.0

Adams Idea Pro MB2 (given in mm I converted it to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.180"    39.00"      0.7
4    24    61.0    0.168"    38.50"      1.7
5    27    61.5    0.156"    38.00"      2.5
6    30    62.0    0.144"    37.50"      3.4
7    34    62.5    0.132"    37.00"      4.2
8    38    63.0    0.120"    36.50"      5.2
9    42    63.5    0.108"    36.00"      6.0
P    46    64.0    0.096"    35.50"      6.5

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Titleist AP2 (2008) --> http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/irons/2008ap2.asp
3    21    60.0    0.160"    39.00"      0.0
4    24    61.0    0.145"    38.50"      1.0
5    27    62.0    0.130"    38.00"      3.0
6    31    62.5    0.120"    37.50"      4.0
7    35    63.0    0.110"    37.00"      5.0
8    39    63.5    0.100"    36.50"      6.0
9    43    64.0    0.090"    36.00"      7.0
P    47    64.0    0.085"    35.75"      8.0

 

The last few things that I want to add are that for high single digit handicap or the 10-15 guys DO NOT BE SCARED TO HIT A BLADE. The Mizuno MP69, Wilson FG62, Adams MB2 were all very easy clubs to hit, you could miss a 1/4" off and be only 2-3 yards short of sweet spot. You had to miss it really bad at more then 1/2" to see > 5 yards loss but that is with a players cavity as well. I can post some pictures of my equipment after this weekend if you all request it, I'll put it in the WIYB section.

 

I hope this has been helpful to anyone in the market for a new set of knives this season.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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Someday I shall!

My goal is to get to 10-ish by the end of this season... then we'll see :)

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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Great review, if you did not like the Titleist than I would bet you do not like the Callaway MB. I actually have not hit the new Razr version, but I had some of the original TA Proto. On a cold morning, well, I knocked down a hybrid because it was the first hole, I was not warmed up yet, and I did not want to hit my beloved blade because I knew it would hurt. After I got warmed up it was ok but they were very harsh on mishits.

 

I like the older 695's and ZM and ZB. My ZB are the same as the ZM but have slight cavity back on the 3-5. Since I do not carry the 3 and 4 most of the time, the 5 is the only one that matters. I like hitting these long irons but I get more distance from hybrids so I have no need for them.

 

 

The Taylormade's are just stupid looking. They build this beautiful blade and then stick an ugly @$$ nut on the back of it. I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish but it is the stupidest looking thing I have seen. It reminds me of that club that was here on another thread a month or so ago with the blue bead or what ever on the back.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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When I read this I was surprised the JMiller did not like the Titlsist MB's. He stated that they were way too firm for him. I thought that the Titleist ZB, an older version of them, were great.

 

Today, I played 36 holes with my ZB's. One of the guys on my team was playing with a set of Titleist 712 MB's. I hit his clubs a couple of time but did not like them much at all. they felt, for lack of a better term, too firm vs. soft and buttery. Now granted this was after I played 36 holes and than sat in the bar for about a half an hour waiting for the other teams to finish, but they sure did not feel like the older ZB's.

 

The heads felt heavier and I did like that but on contact with the ball it was more firm. I bought a set of KBS Tour 90 shafts that I am going to put in the ZB's to see how I like them.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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I hit the Titleist 710, just felt firm in comparison to others that i hit the firmest / click sound at impact out of all of them. From the sounds of it that the Titleist 712 feels about the same way.

 

I have never been a TM person (I owned the r7 Superquad 460 and the Rescue Dual TP nothing since then) so I didn't even give them a second look honestly but like i said if i had been open minded more I could have added them to the review.

 

I hate to say this but IMHO the W/S came out softer then the Mizuno and a little easier to hit but that might just be bias since I play them and have gotten them custom built at 1 degree flat (60.5* lie 6iron). W/S made a great product with the FG62 and are worth giving them a try if you are looking for a new set of blades.

 

I am not sure how the Titleist ZB play, I think those could have completely different feel then the new 710 and 712 MB models that they have out currently.

 

The main reason I wanted to write this review is to get people thinking about companies that they normally might not hit their product. When you are looking for something new BE OPEN MINDED you never know what gem you may uncover from hitting something that is off your radar.

 

So like I said the clubs I hit were (in no order) Adams MB2, Mizuno MP68, Mizuno MP69, Nike VR Pro Blades, W/S FG62. They had TM TP MB and Scratch in there at the time i was testing clubs but the Scratch was a $1200 price tag just a little over my wallet. TM and Callaway I didn't think about until writing this review.

 

I looked in the PGA Superstore I referred to in my review over the weekend since I was in Myrtle Beach again, the have the TM TP MB but not Razer x MB.

 

EDIT

It might be nice if the MGS crew got a hold of some MBs and put them to the test, I know that MGS has done review of the Adams MB2, would be nice to have some more blades to read about besides what i have written here.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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Thanks for the great review. I have been looking for some kind of feedback on the FG 62s for about a year now, as they are the best looking clubs I have ever seen. Glad to hears that they perform as well as they look, now I might have to give them a shot.

WITB

 

Driver: Calloway Diablo Octane Tour, UST VTS Silver

Hybrids: 16* Taylormade RBZ Tour 16*, 21* TEE XCG-3

Irons: Adams CB1 4-PW, KBS C Taper Lite S

Wedges: Nike VR Pro Forged 52*, 58*

Putter: Odyssey White Hot XG3

 

Grips: Lamkin Crossline Midsize

Ball: Whatever I find, prefer Bridgestone

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Thanks for the great review. I have been looking for some kind of feedback on the FG 62s for about a year now, as they are the best looking clubs I have ever seen. Glad to hears that they perform as well as they look, now I might have to give them a shot.

 

No problem they are for sure worth a try, if you buy them make sure to do two things

1) get them fitted for loft and lie (one of my irons came out 1* weak to the lofts they were supposed to be) and also I had mine bent flat 60.5* lie on a 6iron, the set is 59.0, 59.5, 60.0, 60.5, 61.0, 61.5, 62.0, 62.5 currently, my wedges I play at 61.5 (on partial swings 62.5 is too upright for me) lie angles are tailored to you it's whatever fits your swing for that club.

 

2) make sure that they are not too long for you, the specs say they come in at a 39.25" 3iron which is 1/4" longer then normal for OEMs @ 39.00" 3 iron, I play them to the club builders standard at a 38.75" 3 iron and 1/2" step down to a 35.25" PW

 

 

EDIT, like i said in a previous post I think that they play SOFTER then Mizuno. That is a crazy statement to make for some people because Mizuno is often compared to Miura Blades in feel and being the standard. I really think that W/S hit this one out of the park. Great feeling, very workable, and pretty darn easy to hit for a blade.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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jmiller, I have been playing the MP-59s, though I just put my combo set(3i-6i MP-63,7i-PW MP-68) back in my bag..I have not hit the 69s..Other than the muscle pad being reconfigured, did you notice any discernable difference between them & the 68s?...Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

Here are the key differences that I felt and saw in the clubs when i was testing them, from what I can recall.

--> The MP-69 is weighted better then the MP68, the 68 is more a players blade and the 69 offers slightly more forgiveness, for a blade.

--> The MP-69 will launch the ball just a little higher on the long irons (which you don't play anyways)

--> The feel of them both is the classic Mizuno feel, when hit on the sweet spot.

--> The MP-69 has 1* stronger lofts then the MP-68 (46* PW in the 69 versus a 47* in the 68, nothing that couldn't be changed) so if you leave them at stock lofts you will obviously hit the 69 longer by 2-4 yards.

--> If you wanted to go with the MP-69 they would have to get bent 1* weak form a 46* to a 47* PW, that would add about 1* of bounce to them so I am not sure how they would interact with the turf when doing that.

 

So My over all impression is that the MP-69 is a good blade for people looking to get into a blade that are not used to playing them. The weighting is better, the forgiveness is slightly better, the feel is the same as the MP-68 on pure hits.

 

The MP-68 is also a good blade for those people that are used to traditional blade weighting and traditional blade forgiveness. A lot of people hate the MP-68 and love the MP-69s I think it is a personal preference thing when it comes down to it. I didn't hit them enough to see much other then that. That is just from the 20-25 balls i hit in the testing with each one.

 

Honestly if your ball striking is good and you like the flight of the ball on the MP-68 then there is no real reason to run out and get the MP-69 just because they are new. But if you are struggling with the solid strike on the ball with the MP-68 then you can give the MP-69 a try for your low irons see if that helps you with the balance and weight change.

 

For people that want to play a split set that don't know this, you can custom order from Mizuno and W/S the set you need. For instance W/S will send you 4-6 in FG Tour V2 and 7-P in FG62 if you wanted.

 

If anyone has any other questions about blades I will try to answer them to my best ability, I currently playing the W/S FG62s and have the most playing time with that set then any other.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I got to thinking about it, I am missing the Cobra MBs from this review as well. Not sure how they play but it seems a lot of people have them in one model or another. If someone has a good amount of experience with the TM TP MB, Callaway Razer X Mb, Cobra MB then feel free to add it here.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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Thanx much for the input on the 69s...I'm very happy with the 68s & you confirmed my thoughts on the 69s...My whole set is bent +2'/loft & cut 1/4" short off of stock & flattened 1/2' through the set...As I said, I've played Mizunos for some time & I really feel that the 68s are the best MB blade that they've released since the MP-33s, though that's just one man's opinion..I've arranged to hit the FG 62 tomorrow & depending on how the session goes, I may take 'em out for a round on Friday..Thanks again for the review & feedback, because while I loved the FG 17s, I wouldn't have thought to hit the 62s..I'm looking forward to it..Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

no problem, you might be surprised at just how soft the W/S FG62 feels, like I said to me it feels softer then the Mizuno which is a very bold statement way off the common 'mizuno best feeling musclebacks under $1000' type mentality.

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I have been playing cavity backs the last couple of days, but as I was leaving the course today I saw a set of brand new Titleist MB's. I could not resist the opportunity, so after asking, I took the 6 iron out and wacked the ball a few times. Honestly, I loved them. They were very solid feeling. I was hitting range balls, but that was what I was hitting Saturday when I said it felt too firm. I will grant that it may not have felt as soft as some but these were long and straight and I felt very in control of the shots, I hit 15 balls and they were all in a 10 foot circle,

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great review. i think i finally have the swing this season to get to low 10s hope that happens and then i can really go venture into the MBs. i do think the Wilsons look very good

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I hit 15 balls and they were all in a 10 foot circle,

 

Oh yeah? I bet I can hit all 15 balls 50 yards apart from each other! :lol:

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I have been playing cavity backs the last couple of days, but as I was leaving the course today I saw a set of brand new Titleist MB's. I could not resist the opportunity, so after asking, I took the 6 iron out and wacked the ball a few times. Honestly, I loved them. They were very solid feeling. I was hitting range balls, but that was what I was hitting Saturday when I said it felt too firm. I will grant that it may not have felt as soft as some but these were long and straight and I felt very in control of the shots, I hit 15 balls and they were all in a 10 foot circle,

i bet the firm mbs u hit wld feel lk butter soft to me cus im used to the springy ping cast heads

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As for the Titleist feeling firm to me i was compering them to the Mizuno line as a base feel. Like i said Mizuno is regarded in the same sentence as Miura on feel so I figured it was a good place to start. If you notice all the irons I hit were forged. Everything is relative yes the Titleist MB would feel softer to someone in a cast club (unless it is cast carbon then that's not as bad).

 

 

I had a bad tempo day yesterday and hit a lot of balls off center on the W/S FG62s.

 

Some thin and it wasn't as much of a bell ringer as I expected. However, it was 80* F yesterday when I got off work so that might have soften the blow a few times. I also hit a few really high on the blade which didn't result in too bad of a distance robber that surprised me as well.

 

It was a day that was 'playable misses' and 'not my day' for scoring, but over all it gave me a good idea what they act like when you have a bad striking day which was 100 times better then i had expected from a MB club. We can play well 100% of the time we are not tour players and even those guys blow up to shot high 70s or low 80s at times.

 

The biggest difference between a players cavity and a MB is are

--> Players cavity has SLIGHTLY more forgiveness

--> MBs have SLIGHTLY lower trajectory

--> MBs generally are a SLIGHTLY easier to control shot shape and distances

--> MBs tend to dig more into the turf (they have narrow soles and sharper leading edges in general)

 

It comes down to your swing and your preference to what is better for your game. Diggers might not want the sharper thinner soles on a MB so they should stay in a players cavity. Pickers might also like a players cavity as it will help them launch the ball a little higher. I like MBs mostly because I change my angle of attack based on my shot I'm hitting.

 

For the W/S FG62 is gets into the turf really well without digging to deep on my normal swing, the AP2s for me tended to bounce a little bit and not feel really good to me on turf interaction (was better when I took a super step angle of attack more of a digging hit for the AP2s).

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Oh yeah? I bet I can hit all 15 balls 50 yards apart from each other! :lol:

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Truthfully, it was so close to dark I have no idea where they stop. But I will say that they all appeared to be headed right at the 200 yard marker. The range was closed, and the guy was out there chipping balls at the yardage marker. I walked out and talked to him and was out on the range not 200 yards from the marker. 10 feet may be an exaggeration but no more than the number of balls. It may have been 12 balls, or 14 balls, it may have 10 feet or even 40 feet but we are still talking feet. They all appeared to be around 10 feet or so of the sign. :D

 

 

 

 

 

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i know the "buttery feel".....just switched from Callaway X-24 Hot's to Mizuno MP-53's.

 

Man, the feel of a well struck ball last week was heaven!

 

Scored an 84, for 26 points and won $87 in a 3 way tie for first(40 players)in my saturday game.

 

I know my handicap is not yet a 0 - 14, like Mizuno suggests, but at a solid 17 through the Florida Winter, (my handicap is usually 20 then drops to 13 or 15 in mid-summer)I anticipate the possibility of 10 - 13 this year.

 

Anybody else gaming the MP-53's?

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i know the "buttery feel".....just switched from Callaway X-24 Hot's to Mizuno MP-53's.

 

Man, the feel of a well struck ball last week was heaven!

 

Scored an 84, for 26 points and won $87 in a 3 way tie for first(40 players)in my saturday game.

 

I know my handicap is not yet a 0 - 14, like Mizuno suggests, but at a solid 17 through the Florida Winter, (my handicap is usually 20 then drops to 13 or 15 in mid-summer)I anticipate the possibility of 10 - 13 this year.

 

Anybody else gaming the MP-53's?

 

Mizuno does something neat and gives people a GENERAL idea as to what handicap range they are targeted for. I personally have a 8-12 handicap currently.

 

I played to a 1.1 in college and over last 2 season only had a range pass and not a lot of time to play golf. My short game left me but my ball striking did not. So for me my iron striking is more on par with a 0-5 handicap (i think it has room for some improvements) then a 6-10 or 11-15. I think it is more individual then what Mizuno provides in their handicap charts.

 

If you have really good ball to face contact and don't miss the sweet spot very much on your current clubs then you can fit into something that is suggested to be "for lower handicaps" for instance a blade that we have been reviewing and talking about.

 

MP-53 is a good mix between a players cavity and a full cavity. I tend to like the MP-63 a touch more myself when it comes to their non blade models. I think that the MP-68 and MP-69 are great blades for what they are designed to do.

 

I haven't hit the W/S FG Tour V2 but I know that if it has some soft feel like the FG62 Blades I have then it has to be a great playing iron, If I were looking for a new Players cavity set then i would look at the W/S FG Tour V2... MGS has done a review on them here --> http://www.mygolfspy.com/wilson-fg-tour-v2-irons-review/

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i know the "buttery feel".....just switched from Callaway X-24 Hot's to Mizuno MP-53's.

 

Man, the feel of a well struck ball last week was heaven!

 

Scored an 84, for 26 points and won $87 in a 3 way tie for first(40 players)in my saturday game.

 

I know my handicap is not yet a 0 - 14, like Mizuno suggests, but at a solid 17 through the Florida Winter, (my handicap is usually 20 then drops to 13 or 15 in mid-summer)I anticipate the possibility of 10 - 13 this year.

 

Anybody else gaming the MP-53's?

 

Hi Foz --

 

Seriously considering the 53's...working through the process right now. Will also look at the 59's as well as the Wilson's. Gaming a Hogan Apex Plus set right now -- they're old but man do they feel sweet!

 

What tipped the scale for you for the Mizuno's?

 

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A little tour talk for the W/S FG Tour V2, Padraig Harrington set a course record today playing them. I know that is not a good reason to buy them, figured i would mention it as we have been talking about the W/S versus Mizuno a lot in this topic.

http://www.pgatour.com/golfers/020766/padraig-harrington/scorecards/#!/r475/2012 (PGA Tour Scorecard)

http://www.padraigharrington.com/in_the_bag.php (His current WITB)

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Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

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Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

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Hi Foz --

 

Seriously considering the 53's...working through the process right now. Will also look at the 59's as well as the Wilson's. Gaming a Hogan Apex Plus set right now -- they're old but man do they feel sweet!

 

What tipped the scale for you for the Mizuno's?

 

If it helps, I went to the fitting with both the MP53 and MP59 in mind and ended up with the MP59.

Both were pretty similar in terms of forgiveness, but the MP53 had a click sound I didn't like.

 

I haven't heard a single negative thing about Mizuno irons, so you can't go wrong with either set.

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Gonna jump in on a thread again, Blades are great and had Cleveland and Cobra blades and loved both sets but always ended up getting fed up of the lack of forgiveness, however just sold my AP2 710 KBS Tour X Stiff for a set of TM MB's

 

Stuart

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Gonna jump in on a thread again, Blades are great and had Cleveland and Cobra blades and loved both sets but always ended up getting fed up of the lack of forgiveness, however just sold my AP2 710 KBS Tour X Stiff for a set of TM MB's

 

Stuart

 

Well a lot of modern blades have more 'forgiveness' then the real old school blades. The sweet spot on a modern blade is around the size of a 50cent piece so 1/8" or 1/4" off center is not going to hurt you. The old blades were like a sweet spot of a dime, so something off center just a little was going to hurt you a lot.

 

I chose to change from my AP2 (2008) model to a blade set for the following reasons

--> Blades offer more feedback then the AP2s (2008) model i had been playing. It is just easier for me to control trajectory, distance and shape of a shot when I know where the ball is striking the face most of the time. The AP2s didn't have a good level of feedback it was one or the other it felt like a good hit or a complete miss nothing in-between at all. So the AP2s i would call 'dead' in terms of any feedback on striking abilities.

 

--> Blades offered me better turf interaction through the hit. I tend to change my angle of attack based on the shot I'm hitting. This is in thanks to a narrow sole width and bounce less then 8* it lowers the leading edge closer to the ground. The Blades tend to have a sharper leading edge. The narrow sole width, small amount of bounce and the sharper leading edge allows for better spin conditions when attacking the ball and easier contact from tight lies or firm conditions. The AP2s just simply didn't work well for me only in the wet conditions did they preform since they just didn't dig enough for my liking I contribute this to a wider sole width and bounce being slightly larger then my blades now, place the leading edge was very beveled, seemed to work well for diggers and pickers.

 

--> Blades offered me a smaller offset on the club, this is good as my natural shot shape is a draw ans miss is a hook with irons. I needed a club that when i had my hands in front of the ball the head wouldn't become 'hooded' or 'shut' the AP2s would tend to 'over cook' them a lot and miss way left of my intended line. Now my miss is when I am attempting to play a draw it will go straight. Which is okay I just have to get used to the fact that the big snap hook with my new blades is no longer in my bag unless i set the club slightly closed at address.

 

 

Now if you are looking for the following things in a club then a blade might be the way for you to go

--> ultimate feedback from impact on where the ball strikes the face

--> narrow sole width, less bounce and slightly sharper leading edge for crisper contact and better turf entry

--> small amount of offset for the ability to work the ball (fade, straight, draw)

--> Controlling trajectory on blades can be slightly easier (low, middle, high)

 

SIDE NOTES

--> Players CBs can control trajectory and shot shape as well obviously not everyone on tour plays a blade. Thus why i said slightly easier for a blade.

--> A Blade will have slightly higher CG making the ball flight slightly lower then a Players CB

--> A Blade will be harder to hit high on long irons, where a Players CB might be harder to hit low on short irons (why some play a mixed set)

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This was posted in the WIYB section under the photos of my bag (link in my signature)

The materials they use are top quality too. Beta titanium crowns they use in drivers is not cheap, their fairways also have titanium faces, and hybrids have maraging steel faces (often codeword carpenter steel since they don't mention 17-4 stainless).

 

Nice bag jmiller, I wish I were good enough to handle those blades...

 

I wanted to make this response but it is better to be in here then in the WIYB section

 

Blades are not that horrific, I was being serious in my review on them more people can play them then you think. If you swing is in check and you hit a Player CB like a Mizuno MP-60 or MP-63 with no issues a blade wouldn't be that hard of a step into them.

 

I had Mizuno MP-60 loved them but they got warn out, then got the Titleist AP2s hated them for last couple of seasons and knew I wanted to go back to a MP-60 style but figure WTH been playing serious golf since 2007 or so (played not so serious in my youth learned golf at 4years old originally I think) if I can't control my swing, tempo and contact I need to look for a new hobby :)

 

One thing that I have noticed is the blades have keep me more honest in my tempo, I can't go gripping and ripping at a blade not gonna happen. I still get about the same distance on my clubs from full shots, but honestly lately i have been playing 'more controlled' shots where I will club up and swing 3/4, or if I do hit the club I know I can for that distance then i swing smoother making sure i get good contact.

 

 

Let me explain the energy transfer to the ball on Blades, Players CB, and Game Improvement Clubs in a general grouping.

If i hand to a hand you a carpenter hammer, wooden mallet, and frying pain then tell you to drive a nail into a board, which one would you select for efficiency?

Obviously you would pick the carpenter hammer as it has the most centralized mass behind the head of the hammer if you make good contact on the nail it will drive it the farthest into the board. As logic would say the wooden hammer would be 2nd in efficiency and then the frying pan would be last. You can swing harder with the wooden mallet, and make hte frying pan heaver and swing harder but the transfer of energy in terms of efficiency is always going to have the carpenter hammer win out.

 

Now picture these tools to drive the nail as golf clubs where the carpenter hammer is a blade (most centralized mass behind the sweet spot), the Players CB is the wooden mallet (slight redistribution of weight for slightly more forgiveness), Then the obvious frying pan as the game improvement club (complete distribution of weight to transfer as much as possible when the ball is hit anywhere on the head). Golf is a ton like trying to drive a nail into a board with a moving object into a stationary one. Heck the ball only touches te face at about the size of a nail head at initial contact before compression of the ball happens.

 

I thought I read somewhere over the years that on a robot swinging the same on pure strikes, the blade they tested had tighter dispersion in off line and distance results then a players cavity. The Players cavity had better results then a game improvement iron. Guess we should add that a blade is more efferent and consistent MARGINALLY then the Player CB.

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Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

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Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

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I have played the last five rounds with my "more forgiving" cavity back irons. I must say that according to them, I struck the ball really well. I scored pretty well this week. I had a horrible 9 holes once (53) but the rest of the time was 38 and 39, one 36, one 41. I noticed everyday that the chipping and short game options with these did not feel as good as the blades. It certainly never felt as precise as with the blades.

 

The reason I was playing with the CBs was because I like the swingweight of my CB's a lot better and was trying to determine if I wanted to change. I decided I would so last night I reshafted my blades with Dynalite shafts. It may turn out that I hate them, but all it really cost is the ferrules and some epoxy and about 30-45 minutes.

 

Now I have a big anual match starting in a few hours so I was trying to decided what irons to take. I thought back on these CB....

 

First off these CB's are actually Ben Hogan CFT Apex Edge irons. These are very workable, and are a really nice club but it is more forgiving than my Titleist. According to these irons I never really miss hit them all week. But I just looked back and I was only hitting 3 to 4 greens in regulation all week. This number is way down from when 5 to 7 with the blades. Heck. hit the par 5s and par 3s and short par 4s and I should be 10 or more GIR.

 

But the more forgiving irons did not make me hit the green more, I hit it less ever round.

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This was posted in the WIYB section under the photos of my bag (link in my signature)

 

 

I wanted to make this response but it is better to be in here then in the WIYB section

 

Blades are not that horrific, I was being serious in my review on them more people can play them then you think. If you swing is in check and you hit a Player CB like a Mizuno MP-60 or MP-63 with no issues a blade wouldn't be that hard of a step into them.

 

I had Mizuno MP-60 loved them but they got warn out, then got the Titleist AP2s hated them for last couple of seasons and knew I wanted to go back to a MP-60 style but figure WTH been playing serious golf since 2007 or so (played not so serious in my youth learned golf at 4years old originally I think) if I can't control my swing, tempo and contact I need to look for a new hobby :)

 

One thing that I have noticed is the blades have keep me more honest in my tempo, I can't go gripping and ripping at a blade not gonna happen. I still get about the same distance on my clubs from full shots, but honestly lately i have been playing 'more controlled' shots where I will club up and swing 3/4, or if I do hit the club I know I can for that distance then i swing smoother making sure i get good contact.

 

 

Let me explain the energy transfer to the ball on Blades, Players CB, and Game Improvement Clubs in a general grouping.

If i hand to a hand you a carpenter hammer, wooden mallet, and frying pain then tell you to drive a nail into a board, which one would you select for efficiency?

Obviously you would pick the carpenter hammer as it has the most centralized mass behind the head of the hammer if you make good contact on the nail it will drive it the farthest into the board. As logic would say the wooden hammer would be 2nd in efficiency and then the frying pan would be last. You can swing harder with the wooden mallet, and make hte frying pan heaver and swing harder but the transfer of energy in terms of efficiency is always going to have the carpenter hammer win out.

 

Now picture these tools to drive the nail as golf clubs where the carpenter hammer is a blade (most centralized mass behind the sweet spot), the Players CB is the wooden mallet (slight redistribution of weight for slightly more forgiveness), Then the obvious frying pan as the game improvement club (complete distribution of weight to transfer as much as possible when the ball is hit anywhere on the head). Golf is a ton like trying to drive a nail into a board with a moving object into a stationary one. Heck the ball only touches te face at about the size of a nail head at initial contact before compression of the ball happens.

 

I thought I read somewhere over the years that on a robot swinging the same on pure strikes, the blade they tested had tighter dispersion in off line and distance results then a players cavity. The Players cavity had better results then a game improvement iron. Guess we should add that a blade is more efferent and consistent MARGINALLY then the Player CB.

 

I play a players 3/4 CB, so I agree with you about the benefits of player's clubs vs GI club, but the example is flawed. Blades, Players CB, and GI clubs are all intended to hit a golf ball whereas a frying pan is a very unweildy way to hit a nail. I could come up with a similar example using an impact driver for GI clubs and a screw driver for blades and draw the opposite conclusion.

 

As for the dispersion pattern between blades, player's CBs, and GI, I'd really like to see the data behind that. Intuitively, a GI club hit off center will go longer, but also will be off line, so I can see why this conclusion was reached in this case. But a perfect shot from any of the club types shouldn't have any difference in dispersion.

 

Personally, I think figuring out how much of a difference, in terms of forgiveness and workability, there really is between a players CB and blades is interesting. I say I wouldn't ever play blades, but I've never really tried them. One thing I love about my clubs is I know immediately when I hit the ball off center.

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I think you are thinking about the example in the wrong way, think about transfer of energy and mass distribution not the physical objects I listed.

 

You have an object that has a mass of 150grams across a 1.5" diameter, then you have another object that 3" in diameter of 150grams, then you have an object that is 6" in diameter that is also 150grams. All three objects are EVENLY WEIGHTED ACROSS THEIR SURFACE. These diameters represent the weight distribution for the sweet spot of a golf club.

 

in the act of striking an object the energy transfer between a more concentrated mass is going to be a lot more effectuate then a mass spread out across a larger area. The object I listed were a simple way of given a visual nothing more.

 

 

The mass in a pin point (size of a nail head) in any given location on the 6" diameter is going to be less mass to drive the nail into the board being the least efficient in transferring weight energy into a pinpoint location.

 

The mass in a 3" diameter is more concentrated so when the nail is hit (and not completely missed) outside of that radius then more energy is transferred in any one given location within the 3" circle.

 

Obviously when the entire mass is set behind a 1.5" circle and you actually hit the nail there is more weight being placed on the nail head at any given point within that 1.5" circle.

 

blades are not forgiving because majority of this mass is placed right behind the sweet spot of the club, players cavity has slightly more weight distribution behind the sweet spot, GI has the most weight distribution behind the sweet spot.

 

And as for the data it was based on dead center 'pure strikes' hits not off center. the dispersion of dead center hits was tighter in terms of line and distance to the target in a blade then a cavity. Which makes since based on math and physics.

 

That is just assuming the weight is evenly distributed, on a lot of golf irons the club has "perimeter weighting" so less mass is in the dead center then on the edges of the club. Players CBs have slight perimeter weighting, GIs obviously have the most adjusted weighting away from the center. Now all irons will very in their weighting this is just a general concept.

 

 

UPDATE

I found the article that first got me thinking about this (well two of them, the first is the research part on it. The second is the example (i changed it a little) as to the analogy.

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/golf+equipment/5-2032-Blades_Versus_Cavity_Backs_A_Golf_Club_Epiphany.html

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/golf+equipment/5-2090-Blade_Irons_Are_They_More_Efficient_Than_Cavity_Backs_.html

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I think you are thinking about the example in the wrong way, think about transfer of energy and mass distribution not the physical objects I listed.

 

I understood the point, I just think it's a skewed example. I've seen this example several times and it just bugs me, sorry to take it out on you :). I would be very interested to know just how much loss of energy occurs, especially for Ti faced super GI clubs, where the material itself offers better transfer of energy (keep in mind that softer materials used in forged irons typically have the worst transfer of energy).

 

And as for the data it was based on DEAD CENTER hits NOT OFF CENTER, the dispersion of DEAD CENTER hits was tighter in terms of line and distance to the target in a blade then a cavity. Which makes since based on math and physics.

 

Dispersion is a factor of distance, and club face angle. On a dead center, straight shot, there should be no difference, at least intuitively. On shaped shots, dispersion is a matter of technique. It can be argued that you can generate more sidespin with a blade than a GI because of the center of gravity, but the it's the player who ultimately has to tune their shot to get it correctly on line. On shots with a less than perfect club face angle, dispersion will be totally a factor of distance, where the farther the ball travels, the more offline it will go. I would love to see the actual data, maybe I'm just thinking of this all wrong.

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Now I agree with you 100% that the Players CB and GI are more efficient when it comes to not dead center hits as that article says. But on your dead center on the perfect hit, the blade does the job the best.

 

That is the point that I am getting at, on the best hits your Players CB and GI might not give you a consistent distance and line of play thanks to perimeter weighting, it probably do a better job if the weight was more evenly distributed across the entire sweet spot however it still would have less mass in the larger area then the blade in the smaller area. As a tool to strike something obviously a more concentrated CG would be more efficient then one spread out over larger space, more mass away from the impact point the worse of energy transfer you have period.

 

In my testing between blades and cavity backs I actually hit the blade about 3 to 5 yards longer on pure shots then my players cavities. Interesting concept and a wait a minute here how is that gonna happen type moment :)

 

i updated that post you quoted by the way to be a little more clear.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

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