Rounders Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I work in the golf business, and a lot of people are concerned about the future of Callaway golf. As you all know Callaway has not made a 'revolutionary change' in golf in the last little while. Not only that but dropping square technology was a huge mistake. It makes me wonder will Callaway become the next Tommy Armor or even drop to the same level as Top Flite? I am a Callaway guy through and through and it pains me to see Callaway struggling like this. Lets hope the powers that be at Callaway can come up with something that will regenerate the interest in the brand I love, and not recycle models of products for generations to come. Please post your thoughts on what you think will become of Callaway in the near future. Fairways and Greens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 14, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 14, 2010 The concern seems somewhat unfounded. The 2010 line-up has more people talking about it than in years past. They have tried some things that were no well received, but they tried new things. A company that is trying to be progressive will remain solvent. Remember too that they are very large, with sub-companies like Odyssey under their corporate umbrella. This gives them some fiscal insulation to market change that smaller companies don't have. Not saying that they couldn't use another "Big Bertha" hot ticket, but they are still making money. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I don't particularly like Callway, but they have a huge following, a good reputation, and a pretty good TOUR staff. I don't think they are struggling at all. One of the reason that I don't like them so much is their lack of innovation (since the Big Bertha), but most people don't seem to care, their sales are still going strong. Not to mention they own Top Flite and Odyssey, 2 solid companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGage Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I'm a Callaway guy through and through, and I haven't heard there was any issue with their viability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I work in the golf business, and a lot of people are concerned about the future of Callaway golf. As you all know Callaway has not made a 'revolutionary change' in golf in the last little while. Not only that but dropping square technology was a huge mistake. It makes me wonder will Callaway become the next Tommy Armor or even drop to the same level as Top Flite? I am a Callaway guy through and through and it pains me to see Callaway struggling like this. Lets hope the powers that be at Callaway can come up with something that will regenerate the interest in the brand I love, and not recycle models of products for generations to come. Please post your thoughts on what you think will become of Callaway in the near future. Is there a particular reason/source that makes you think they're going down? As has been said already, I think their 2010 line up is getting great buzz and reviews. It also seems that people are pretty loyal to the brand as a result of their customer service, and that makes me believe that they will be alright. There's that idea that 90% of your business comes from 10% of your customers, it seems like Callaway has a good lock on that 10%. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGolfer Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I would not worry too much about Callaway. They are in the same boat as the rest of the OEM's right now and the past couple of years has not been great for any of them. Dropping the square driver was a good thing. Square did not sell and they are now able to offer the same MOI without being square which should help sales worldwide. It is this very reason other OEM's never went square in the first place. Driver: Titleist 915 D3 11.5* 42.50" 3 Wood: Titleist 915 F 15* 40.25" 5 Wood: Titleist 915 F 18* 39.50" 7 Wood: Titleist 915 F 21* 39.25" Hybrids: Titleist 913 H 24* 38.50" & 27* 37.50" Irons: Titleist DCI 990 6 thru 9 -0.5" Wedges: Titleist DCI 990 49* and Vokey SM 52.08 & 56.14 -0.5" Ball: Titleist 2015 Pro V1x Putter: Titleist Scotty Cameron 2014 Select Newport w/SS 3.0 34.00" "Golf doesn't build character; it reveals it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I got to see the new Callaway drivers in person today, and I will say that if they continue to make drivers with hosels they might add me to their customer list. The FT Tour driver looks fantastic, if a bit intimidating (I'm very used to 460cc heads). I would not have believed you if you told me that a hosel makes that much difference, but to my eye it definitely does. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBarry Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I agree, the new Calloway line up for 2010 is very impressive. John Barry Bring the Funk, Back to Golf The Golfer's Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I got to see the new Callaway drivers in person today, and I will say that if they continue to make drivers with hosels they might add me to their customer list. The FT Tour driver looks fantastic, if a bit intimidating (I'm very used to 460cc heads). I would not have believed you if you told me that a hosel makes that much difference, but to my eye it definitely does. I too prefer the normal hosel. The S2H2 just doesn't fit my eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWShoot67 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I wouldn't really go by the last two years as good markers as to see how ones business is doing. This has to be one of the worst if not the worst economic climate that I can remember in my 30 years of working full time. Plus I feel Callaway has only gotten better. They finally have start making some forged irons and they have finally have started to go after the better golfer. Most people that I know that were playing Cally back say 10-15 years ago were all high handicap golfers. it's not to put down anyones handicap it's just they never made any type of players iron ever until recent years! Now they have some of the best blades, best driver, putters and wedges with Roger Cleveland being on board! JMO Tim The Bag: Right handed Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5" Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43" TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42" Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5" Titleist Vokey Proto's 52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400 TM TP5 X Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto GHIN # 5144472 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 if you can't see that this years crop of products is superior to prior seasons, I don't know what to say. This is by far the best lineup that the company has put out in several years. bar none. Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 if you can't see that this years crop of products is superior to prior seasons, I don't know what to say. This is by far the best lineup that the company has put out in several years. bar none. Maybe as a different type of evidence, what are the attitudes of the reps when they come into your store? excited about the company? hoping they have a job next week? the foot soldiers for the company are a good barometer for the health of a company sometimes. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PingManKMB Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 if you can't see that this years crop of products is superior to prior seasons, I don't know what to say. This is by far the best lineup that the company has put out in several years. bar none. Completely Agree. They introduced the Diablo in '09 and it looked like a giant piece of worthless trash. What do they do? Revamp it and produce a "tour" model for 2010 that looks and feels respectable. (The Diablo irons I still question, even the forged model). Anywho.... The FT Tour driver is in my opinion the best FT driver Callaway has produced thus far. Odyssey continues to rock and roll as the #1 putter and Callaway is continuing to sell off whatever remains of the Ben Hogan line. The "JAWS" wedges are already/will continue to be a hit with amateur players. Not to mention new line of balls this year as well.... Who knows, but I think Callaway is going to be alright. What would really put them over the top in my opinion is to re-introduce the Big Bertha irons. Something new, fresh, innovative.... Perhaps a few different models, head style, etc... Just my thoughts. "Hey Ace... You got any more of that gum?" "That's none of your damn business and I'll thank you for staying out of my personal affairs." - Ace Ventura Pet Detective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 if you can't see that this years crop of products is superior to prior seasons, I don't know what to say. This is by far the best lineup that the company has put out in several years. bar none. One could also argue that, while we think it's a great line up and it may perform wonderfully, it isn't selling well. Now I don't know if it is or if it isn't, but that's something to consider. The fact that we think the line up is cool does not help the shareholders. I'm wondering if Callaway isn't feeling the recession more acutely as a result of the fact that they keep their prices higher than other OEMs. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 Completely Agree. They introduced the Diablo in '09 and it looked like a giant piece of worthless trash. What do they do? Revamp it and produce a "tour" model for 2010 that looks and feels respectable. (The Diablo irons I still question, even the forged model). Anywho.... The FT Tour driver is in my opinion the best FT driver Callaway has produced thus far. Odyssey continues to rock and roll as the #1 putter and Callaway is continuing to sell off whatever remains of the Ben Hogan line. The "JAWS" wedges are already/will continue to be a hit with amateur players. Not to mention new line of balls this year as well.... Who knows, but I think Callaway is going to be alright. What would really put them over the top in my opinion is to re-introduce the Big Bertha irons. Something new, fresh, innovative.... Perhaps a few different models, head style, etc... Just my thoughts. Two wins for the new balls last week. You make an excellent point. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 One could also argue that, while we think it's a great line up and it may perform wonderfully, it isn't selling well. Now I don't know if it is or if it isn't, but that's something to consider. The fact that we think the line up is cool does not help the shareholders. I'm wondering if Callaway isn't feeling the recession more acutely as a result of the fact that they keep their prices higher than other OEMs. The X22 non-tours are cheaper this year than last. They may not be like TM who cleans house every six months, but they don't seem as tight as Ping in price control either. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The X22 non-tours are cheaper this year than last. They may not be like TM who cleans house every six months, but they don't seem as tight as Ping in price control either. I was looking more at the starting price rather than how quickly or how much they drop the prices on older stuff. TM drivers (and most other OEMs) top out at $400. Callaway seems to do $500. That difference seems to carry over to the irons too. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 X22s and 09 Burners were the same price when I was shopping last Spring. X22's are less than the burners now, I think. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 X22s and 09 Burners were the same price when I was shopping last Spring. X22's are less than the burners now, I think. I'm sure you are correct on both points. At no point was I trying to say that Callaway clubs are overpriced, or that I am upset about their pricing. I was just trying to offer another view as to why they might be in trouble or why people would think that. To further undermine my own point, I seem to recall seeing a pretty steep price drop on the FT-iq at GG the other day. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 Thinking more about it, price may be positive in some way too. Nic was saying that he has experienced the customer who wants the new expensive callaway gear for the status of it. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Thinking more about it, price may be positive in some way too. Nic was saying that he has experienced the customer who wants the new expensive callaway gear for the status of it. That's certainly true, a higher price can impart a higher status. I wonder: are the people who bought clubs for that reason more or less likely to change their buying patterns as a result of the economic situation? Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 Probably, but maybe that type of buyer is fiscally insulated from the majority of the market issues. For Callaway though this must be a small customer base anyhow. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Probably, but maybe that type of buyer is fiscally insulated from the majority of the market issues. For Callaway though this must be a small customer base anyhow. It would be very interesting to me to know what the demographics of each OEM are, predominantly, and how that has impacted them in this current economic downturn. Perhaps that type of buyer is the bulk of Callaway's clientele, they are insulated, and thus Callaway is largely unhurt by the current situation. I don't know that that's the case, but I think the question is interesting. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2Golf Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I agree with the general consensus that Callaway seems to be back on track with the 2010 line. Whether it resonates with Consumers remains to be seen, but at least they have solid product out there. Interesting article on the state of the golf industry and it specifically singles out Callaway: Golf Industry US: Road to Recovery Indeed statistics released by golf research company Golf Datatech in Florida reveals just how badly the game is feeling it. One of several depressing figures the company published was the 10.5% by which sales for golf equipment (including balls, woods, irons, wedges, putters, shoes, gloves and bags) tumbled at on-course 'green grass' stores in 2009. As for off-course (high street and discount golf stores), the figures were 11.5% less than in 2008, 18% less than in 2007. Specifically driver sales were down 17% compared to 2009, fairway woods dipped 22% 2008 and 30% fewer hybrids were sold in July of 2009 compared to January of 2008. Every other piece of equipment (except for wedges) reported double-digit losses compared with 2008. Among the manufacturers hardest hit was Callaway Golof which reported an annual net sales drop of 15%, and a gross profit dip of a 29%, attributed in part, it says, to ‘heavy discounting in the marketplace as a result of the economic environment'. Though most golfers probably didn't have the money to purchase one, 2009 was clearly a good time to be buying an FT-9. "The economic and market conditions in 2009 were without a doubt the most challenging in recent history," said Callaway's President and CEO George Fellows at the show. Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 That's certainly true, a higher price can impart a higher status. I wonder: are the people who bought clubs for that reason more or less likely to change their buying patterns as a result of the economic situation? A lot of rich people look to Callaway. I've caddied before at this very exclusive golf course, and I would say that at least 40% of the people had Callaway irons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 I agree with the general consensus that Callaway seems to be back on track with the 2010 line. Whether it resonates with Consumers remains to be seen, but at least they have solid product out there. Interesting article on the state of the golf industry and it specifically singles out Callaway: Golf Industry US: Road to Recovery Good article. The citing of a "profit drop" does mean that the company is still turning a profit though. Maybe not as much as they would like, but it is 71% from being a loss. A lot of rich people look to Callaway. I've caddied before at this very exclusive golf course, and I would say that at least 40% of the people had Callaway irons. Great observation. I don't have access to those courses so I was just speculating. 40% seems like a large market share if that holds true in other locations. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moecat Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 My only issue with Callaway is with how the face is attached to the head in the FT drivers. In the future, I'd like to be able to look down at one at address and not see the curved line in the crown. Maybe it's not possible to fix this with today's technology, but down the road I think it would look a lot better and less distracting if one were able to look at a classic and seamless driver shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 Is that face open or closed at address? I am assuming that the line is unavoidable because of the multi-material construction. Would you like it better if the line was straight or absent? Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moecat Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Is that face open or closed at address? I am assuming that the line is unavoidable because of the multi-material construction. Would you like it better if the line was straight or absent? Definitely needs to be absent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBarry Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Never mind the fact that most of their drivers come out in the market at 399.00 +, when a lot of the other companies are around 299.00 before the discounting begins. John Barry Bring the Funk, Back to Golf The Golfer's Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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