How do I convince my golf buddies it's time to change tee boxes?

[bumpandrun]

Talk with your course about adding hybrid tees that use red and white and call them senior. No new tee boxes have to be built and it's easy to keep up with (kills one argument you have heard). My course does this with green tees using white and blue. They paint half the tee marker green depending on whichever tee is used (ie blue/green or white/green). They base it on the tee shot distance required/difficulty and it works great.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

Seriously? Like no one would know which tees are designated for women? And we should change generational norms to protect the male ego (old guys)? If you’re so insecure it bothers you to play the women’s red tees, you deserve to struggle off the whites.

 

 

... Well their ego may deserve to strugglie but the rest of us do not. Not only do I play with strangers a couple days a week but I also play behind them. At this time of year the first 2 twilite times may finish but no guarantee for the next 2 groups and it only takes one masculinity challenged golfer playing the wrong tees to back up the course for everyone else. 

... Admittedly most of the back ups don't occur because seniors won't move up to the red tees, although it does occasionally happen, but it is the tips to mens and mens to senior tees where the ego prevents them from playing the appropriate tees. One of my pet peeves is not moving up because playing a different tee than the rest of the group slows up play. Several times I have played with a group that used all 4 tees as my 49yr old long hitting pard plays the tips, I play the mens and an older couple played the seniors/red tees and we moved along just fine because everyone was ready when it was their turn. 

[Vpfriar]

Our course established a new set of senior tees, a combination of reds and whites (green tees). At first there was push back because of the perceived stigma of playing from red tees. During the first season we had a green tee tournament and many of the seniors realized that the game was more enjoyable since they didn’t have the length of their youth. From these tees most could again reach greens in regulations. Senior golfers need to adjust as they lose distance. 

[rjcolt45]

I didn't read everyones' replies, but here's a couple suggestions.. Handicap adjustments should take care of people playing from different tees.  You may consider creating a red/white combo set of tees to shorten some of the longer holes and make them playable for everyone.  The common formula for which tees to play is 36 times the distance of your average 5 iron.  So if you hit your 5 iron 150, you should play a course around 5400 yards.

[GaryF]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Well their ego may deserve to strugglie but the rest of us do not. Not only do I play with strangers a couple days a week but I also play behind them. At this time of year the first 2 twilite times may finish but no guarantee for the next 2 groups and it only takes one masculinity challenged golfer playing the wrong tees to back up the course for everyone else. 

... Admittedly most of the back ups don't occur because seniors won't move up to the red tees, although it does occasionally happen, but it is the tips to mens and mens to senior tees where the ego prevents them from playing the appropriate tees. One of my pet peeves is not moving up because playing a different tee than the rest of the group slows up play. Several times I have played with a group that used all 4 tees as my 49yr old long hitting pard plays the tips, I play the mens and an older couple played the seniors/red tees and we moved along just fine because everyone was ready when it was their turn. 

Whenever I play with some unknowns, I encourage them to play whatever tees they’d like to play.p, and I tell them I’m playing the 3s (out of 5).  Quite a few of our tee boxes are quite long so no extra driving time with the cart, but even with extra driving, it is ground that will be covered regardless.  I’ve yet to see a Jetson golf cart that does vertical take offs and landings. On our #1 holes, 4 tees are at the same cart path stop. The number 5 is about 50 yards down the CP. 

A few months ago, it was really busy and getting backed up, so I asked the starter if we could go off #10 and he called the clubhouse and was told no.  Then he said about the group in front of us....they must be long hitters as they are playing the 1s (par 4). All in their 30s.  The first guy topped his drive that rolled about 30 yds to the #3 tee.  He then hit a 2nd that went just past the #5, barely on the fairway. Second guy -1st shot -just short of the fairway into a ravine - second shot just past the #5 tee.  Third guy, identical.  3 players, 6 tee shots.  Then 2 had to search for their balls in the ravine.  Took one guy 4 shots to get to the 150 marker.  StArter called the clubhouse and told them he was sending us to #10. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by GaryF

[Bulldog]

5 minutes ago, GaryF said:

Whenever I play with some unknowns, I encourage them to play whatever tees they’d like to play.p, and I tell them I’m playing the 3s (out of 5).  Quite a few of our tee boxes are quite long so no extra driving time with the cart, but even with extra driving, it is ground that will be covered regardless.  I’ve yet to see a Jetson golf cart that dies vertical take offs and landings. On our #1 holes, 4 tees are at the same cart path stop. The number 5 is about 50 yards down the CP. 

A few months ago, it was really busy and getting backed up, so I asked the starter if we could go off #10 and he called the clubhouse and was told no.  Then he said about the group in front of us....they must be long hitters as they are playing the 1s (par 4). The first guy topped his drive that rolled about 30 yds to the #3 tee.  He then hit a 2nd that went just past the #5, barely on the fairway. Second guy -1st shot -just short of the fairway into a ravine - second shot just past the #5 tee.  Third guy, identical.  3 players, 6 tee shots.  Then 2 had to search for their balls in the ravine.  Took one guy 4 shots to get to the 150 marker.  StArter called the clubhouse and told them he was sending us to #10. 

I’m always bemused at players on par 5s who are 225 yards from the green after two shots and wait until the green is clear to hit their 3rd.

[GaDawg]

43 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Well their ego may deserve to strugglie but the rest of us do not. Not only do I play with strangers a couple days a week but I also play behind them. At this time of year the first 2 twilite times may finish but no guarantee for the next 2 groups and it only takes one masculinity challenged golfer playing the wrong tees to back up the course for everyone else. 

... Admittedly most of the back ups don't occur because seniors won't move up to the red tees, although it does occasionally happen, but it is the tips to mens and mens to senior tees where the ego prevents them from playing the appropriate tees. One of my pet peeves is not moving up because playing a different tee than the rest of the group slows up play. Several times I have played with a group that used all 4 tees as my 49yr old long hitting pard plays the tips, I play the mens and an older couple played the seniors/red tees and we moved along just fine because everyone was ready when it was their turn. 

Sam, In my opinion that's one of the main problems with pace of play is a lot of golfers don't know how to play ready golf. They want to stand around watching the other golfers get their yardage, pick a club, check the wind, hit their shot then go to their ball and do the same. Drives me up the wall!

[funkyjudge]

2 hours ago, GaryF said:

Our courses each have 5 sets of tees labeled 1-5 on the scorecard.  Tees 3-5 have both men’s and women’s slope rating listed.  In addition, there are combos also listed with both men’s and women’s slope ratings, and GHIN lists those for entering scores.  Seems simple enough. 

Essentially the same at my "home" course (not necessarily where I play most often, but where I am a member and where I maintain my USGA Handicap Index), except that the tee boxes still have colors (black, gold, turquoise, maroon, white, yellow, red, plus blue/white, white/yellow and yellow/red combination tees).  In addition, the course where I played in competition this Tuesday had two sets of combination tees.  I find this to be very helpful, and generally play the blue/white or white/yellow combo tees.

I think that the idea of numbering the tees and getting rid of the color-coded tee boxes is an excellent idea, and I wish that courses would adopt this universally, although it will never happen.

[chisag]

8 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Sam, In my opinion that's one of the main problems with pace of play is a lot of golfers don't know how to play ready golf. They want to stand around watching the other golfers get their yardage, pick a club, check the wind, hit their shot then go to their ball and do the same. Drives me up the wall!

 

... Right there with you. Nothing more frustrating than waiting on a group a hole or two behind in 2 carts that all drive to every shot, even when they are on opposite sides of the fairway. 

[funkyjudge]

19 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

I’m always bemused at players on par 5s who are 225 yards from the green after two shots and wait until the green is clear to hit their 3rd.

OMG, that drives me absolutely bonkers!  I have mentioned the 77 year old guy who plays with me on my winter golf tour who cannot hit his driver more than 165 yards (run-out included). He doesn't have another club in his bag that he can hit more than 140 yards, yet he is always waiting to hit his approach shots of 200+ yards, only to pull out one of his hybrids, none of which give him more than 120 yards on near-perfect strikes. We (myself and one of our other regular playing partners) have talked to him about this several times and his answer is always a ridiculous, "what if I hit a perfect shot?" ..... yeah, what if he does?  It will maybe go 122 yards rather than 120 with the hybrid or 143 yards rather than 140 with his 3-wood.

Edited November 25, 2022 by funkyjudge

[Tigerheenan]

Very interesting thread, with many good suggestions. The problem with a group I used to play in (25 to 30 @ $40 a head). was that guys were moving up when they clearly shouldn't. This was tolerated due to their age, but caused difficulties as we played skins and nearest the pin on par 3's,  which clearly gave some of them an advantage. However, the last time I played, as we were walking off 18, I looked back to see 2 of the guys on the tee  waiting for the green to clear before driving - from 295 yards !!

This is when I realized that the whole "age" thing doesn't work. I know 70 year olds who can still hit it 260/270 while others struggle to hit it 200. In fact, I confronted a 70 year old a couple of years ago, who was allowed to move up. He was easily able to reach 450/470 par 5s in 2 and get close to some of the shorter par 4s. His response was " I hit 70 last week so I can move up. God dammit man, I have to take half a viagra every morning just to stop peeing on my shoes". Hilarious comment, but he was clearly too long for forward tees. In my opinion, distance is the only reasonable measurement. 

An earlier post suggested that the formula for "ideal" course length was 33 times your 5 iron distance. When I heard it years ago, it was 36 times and to this day, I think it's the fairest way to figure out a guy's ideal course length. The problem is that when I started asking guys how far they his a 5 iron, most of them replied "i don't carry a 5 iron any more, I use my hybrid". 

Pride or greed are not good characteristics in any golfer - guys not moving up when they should and others moving up when they shouldn't ! The same applies to sandbagger and vanity handicaps. They say that the latter are only fooling themselves, but as highlighted in this thread, they can make the game a lot less enjoyable for others. 

End of rant !

[Bulldog]

19 minutes ago, Tigerheenan said:

Very interesting thread, with many good suggestions. The problem with a group I used to play in (25 to 30 @ $40 a head). was that guys were moving up when they clearly shouldn't. This was tolerated due to their age, but caused difficulties as we played skins and nearest the pin on par 3's,  which clearly gave some of them an advantage. However, the last time I played, as we were walking off 18, I looked back to see 2 of the guys on the tee  waiting for the green to clear before driving - from 295 yards !!

This is when I realized that the whole "age" thing doesn't work. I know 70 year olds who can still hit it 260/270 while others struggle to hit it 200. In fact, I confronted a 70 year old a couple of years ago, who was allowed to move up. He was easily able to reach 450/470 par 5s in 2 and get close to some of the shorter par 4s. His response was " I hit 70 last week so I can move up. God dammit man, I have to take half a viagra every morning just to stop peeing on my shoes". Hilarious comment, but he was clearly too long for forward tees. In my opinion, distance is the only reasonable measurement. 

An earlier post suggested that the formula for "ideal" course length was 33 times your 5 iron distance. When I heard it years ago, it was 36 times and to this day, I think it's the fairest way to figure out a guy's ideal course length. The problem is that when I started asking guys how far they his a 5 iron, most of them replied "i don't carry a 5 iron any more, I use my hybrid". 

Pride or greed are not good characteristics in any golfer - guys not moving up when they should and others moving up when they shouldn't ! The same applies to sandbagger and vanity handicaps. They say that the latter are only fooling themselves, but as highlighted in this thread, they can make the game a lot less enjoyable for others. 

End of rant !

 

[Middler]

45 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I think that the idea of numbering the tees and getting rid of the color-coded tee boxes is an excellent idea, and I wish that courses would adopt this universally, although it will never happen.

It’s very easy to see what tees to pull up to when there are colors. And having generally universal colors makes it easy to choose when playing away courses. Obviously numbered markers could be made so they’re also easy to see from a distance, but most if not all courses already have colored tee markers that most players are fine with, so I can see why courses don’t want to repaint or buy new to soothe some old male egos…especially since seniors get a good discount on greens fees most places.

[Bulldog]

“How far do you hit your 5 iron?”

“About 185 (that time last August…when the fairways were rock hard…with the wind…downhill…when the flag was in the front)”

[GaryF]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

I’m always bemused at players on par 5s who are 225 yards from the green after two shots and wait until the green is clear to hit their 3rd.

How about the guy on a par 5 that is 150-180 behind the 150 marker, so 300+ from the green and has to get his laser out and measure. 

[GaryF]

10 minutes ago, Middler said:

It’s very easy to see what tees to pull up to when there are colors. And having generally universal colors makes it easy to choose when playing away courses. Obviously numbered markers could be made so they’re also easy to see from a distance, but most if not all courses already have colored tee markers that most players are fine with, so I can see why courses don’t want to repaint or buy new to soothe some old male egos…especially since seniors get a good discount on greens fees most places.

At my club, I see a lot more younger guys hitting from the wrong/longer tees than the older ones, especially among the guests. 

[chisag]

41 minutes ago, Tigerheenan said:

The problem with a group I used to play in (25 to 30 @ $40 a head). was that guys were moving up when they clearly shouldn't. This was tolerated due to their age, but caused difficulties as we played skins and nearest the pin on par 3's,  which clearly gave some of them an advantage.

 

... There are too many disadvantages to being 70* and older, although some wisdom for those that are not set on their ways is a nice bonus. And a discounted tee time and if they have stayed in good shape and worked on their game, an advantage off the tee if they choose to move up. 


* I heard Brian Regan do a bit where he was visiting his doctor and said there was a spot just above his right knee on his thigh, about the size of a softball he wanted the DR to look at because that was the only place on his body that didn't hurt, so what could the Dr do to make the rest of his body feel like that spot. Sadly, not all that much of an exaggeration. 

[saz0418]

4 hours ago, Middler said:

Seriously? Like no one would know which tees are designated for women? And we should change generational norms to protect the male ego (old guys)? If you’re so insecure it bothers you to play the women’s red tees, you deserve to struggle off the whites. I’m sure guys who play the tips chide friends who play the blues/whites, but I don’t see them whining here.

I wonder what women think of men giving men another tee, so men have 3-5 tees to choose from and women none? The distances will be exactly as they are, but we need to change the designation and/or color because some old guys can’t cope? I’ve seen courses with men’s black, blue, white, (senior) gold, (women’s) red and (senior women, super senior men, juniors) green.

Like others have said, when the day comes that I have to play the women’s red tees (to have a chance to reach in regulation), I couldn’t care less what others say. I’m still out there playing, beats being on the couch…

I have played courses where there are, like, 5 or 6 sets of tees -- and none of them are blue, red, or gold!   Once course I play regularly have 2 sets of tees forward of the "Red Tees".   A recent trip to Pinehurst found a course with 5 sets of tees and 3 options for hybrid tees to provide great options between 5500 and 6500 yards.   I am not saying that fragile, male egos are not the problem.   I am simply saying that once you just put out tees (numbered, or color coded or whatever), then all the players can pick a set and not "feel" stigmatized.     And that goes both ways-- fragile male egos not wanting to play forward-- and silly macho males making fun of them (out loud or not) for playing from a  set of tees that match their golf capabilities.  

[Bulldog]

Thanks for all the input! So, I think this issue needs some marketing. Here are some ideas for mottos to encourage players to choose the appropriate tees:

 

• My idea of a good day - Greens in regulation. Move to your tees.
• Choose the fun tees, you paid for it.
• Hey Superman, let’s move up a tee box.
• Faster, higher, lower scores, all from your tees.
• NFL kickers want to be closer to the goal - play your tees.
• Choose your tee box wisely grasshopper.
• Which brings more smiles on Par 4’s? Approach shots with fairway woods or mid-irons? Play your tees.
• Your buddies’ tee boxes don’t have to be your tee boxes.
• There’s a reason for multiple tee boxes.
• Grow a pair and play the tee boxes that are right for your game.

[GolfSpy_APH]

20 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Thanks for all the input! So, I think this issue needs some marketing. Here are some ideas for mottos to encourage players to choose the appropriate tees:

 

• My idea of a good day - Greens in regulation. Move to your tees.
• Choose the fun tees, you paid for it.
• Hey Superman, let’s move up a tee box.
• Faster, higher, lower scores, all from your tees.
• NFL kickers want to be closer to the goal - play your tees.
• Choose your tee box wisely grasshopper.
• Which brings more smiles on Par 4’s? Approach shots with fairway woods or mid-irons? Play your tees.
• Your buddies’ tee boxes don’t have to be your tee boxes.
• There’s a reason for multiple tee boxes.
• Grow a pair and play the tee boxes that are right for your game.

I'm sure this was already mentioned somewhere earlier or asked, but how many different options for tee boxes do you have? 

The courses I play normally have 4, however I have played courses that have 6 or 7 and do their best to get everyone to play off the proper tee boxes. 

[Bulldog]

21 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I'm sure this was already mentioned somewhere earlier or asked, but how many different options for tee boxes do you have? 

The courses I play normally have 4, however I have played courses that have 6 or 7 and do their best to get everyone to play off the proper tee boxes. 

Three - red, white and blue.

[Middler]

48 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I'm sure this was already mentioned somewhere earlier or asked, but how many different options for tee boxes do you have? 

I never would have believed it but at my home course:

• They started with 3 - blue (“pro”), white (men) and red (women).
• Then they went to 4 long ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), gold (senior men) and red (women).
• Then they went to 5 quite a while ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men) and red (women).
• Then they went to 6 a few years ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men), red (women) and green (super senior men, senior women, juniors).
• And recently they went to 7 - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men), gold/red hybrid (for senior men who’s ego won’t let them play reds), red (women) and green (super senior men, senior women, juniors).

The scorecard looks busy, but they’re just trying to (over IMO) accommodate members. I do think adding hybrids makes a lot more sense than adding complete new sets of tees, or changing to numbered tees.

 

[funkyjudge]

2 hours ago, Tigerheenan said:

Very interesting thread, with many good suggestions. The problem with a group I used to play in (25 to 30 @ $40 a head). was that guys were moving up when they clearly shouldn't. This was tolerated due to their age, but caused difficulties as we played skins and nearest the pin on par 3's,  which clearly gave some of them an advantage. However, the last time I played, as we were walking off 18, I looked back to see 2 of the guys on the tee  waiting for the green to clear before driving - from 295 yards !!

This is when I realized that the whole "age" thing doesn't work. I know 70 year olds who can still hit it 260/270 while others struggle to hit it 200. In fact, I confronted a 70 year old a couple of years ago, who was allowed to move up. He was easily able to reach 450/470 par 5s in 2 and get close to some of the shorter par 4s. His response was " I hit 70 last week so I can move up. God dammit man, I have to take half a viagra every morning just to stop peeing on my shoes". Hilarious comment, but he was clearly too long for forward tees. In my opinion, distance is the only reasonable measurement. 

An earlier post suggested that the formula for "ideal" course length was 33 times your 5 iron distance. When I heard it years ago, it was 36 times and to this day, I think it's the fairest way to figure out a guy's ideal course length. The problem is that when I started asking guys how far they his a 5 iron, most of them replied "i don't carry a 5 iron any more, I use my hybrid". 

Pride or greed are not good characteristics in any golfer - guys not moving up when they should and others moving up when they shouldn't ! The same applies to sandbagger and vanity handicaps. They say that the latter are only fooling themselves, but as highlighted in this thread, they can make the game a lot less enjoyable for others. 

End of rant !

36x your 5-iron (carry) distance is the correct formula for arriving at ideal 18-hole total yardage. 28x driver carry distance is also an acceptable formula.

[excourse]

On 11/13/2022 at 7:29 PM, Rickp said:

Which Village?  I’ve been in TV for 10 years.

 

2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I’m always bemused at players on par 5s who are 225 yards from the green after two shots and wait until the green is clear to hit their 3rd.

One of the guys on my regular Tuesday 4 some is afflicted with the "I  don't want to hit, because if I happen to catch it just right I might hit them" disease. Of course he never does catch it just right. 

[Rjeff]

8 minutes ago, excourse said:

 

One of the guys on my regular Tuesday 4 some is afflicted with the "I  don't want to hit, because if I happen to catch it just right I might hit them" disease. Of course he never does catch it just right. 

Better safe than sorry

[Rjeff]

22 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

36x your 5-iron (carry) distance is the correct formula for arriving at ideal 18-hole total yardage. 28x driver carry distance is also an acceptable formula.

I am almost 76 (In March) play to an 8, currently my 5i carry is145 & my driver carry is 200, not sure this helps but it is real.

[funkyjudge]

5 minutes ago, excourse said:

 

One of the guys on my regular Tuesday 4 some is afflicted with the "I  don't want to hit, because if I happen to catch it just right I might hit them" disease. Of course he never does catch it just right. 

I won’t hit if I have 195-220 yards, because I hit LOTS of 4-hybrid and 7-wood approach shots that distance. On very rare occasions, if I have as much as 230-235 yards to a green (unprotected - no pond or creek short of the green and no real trouble left and right), I MIGHT wait to hit, because that is my ideal distance to hit a 4-wood from a decent fairway lie. However, more often than not, if I am more than 220 yards from the green, I will lay-up with anything from an 8-iron to a 5-iron, and I am NOT wasting time waiting for the group that is on the green to putt-out!

Golfers who can’t hit any club in their bag more than 165-175 yards have no business waiting to hit if the group ahead of them is 200 yards away on the green or in the fairway. The guy with whom I play who is most guilty of waiting to hit when the group in front of us is clearly too far away to be in any danger is also the same person who ALWAYS shoots everything and everyone ahead of him with his laser rangefinder — not once, but several times “to be sure he has an accurate distance”.

[funkyjudge]

4 minutes ago, Rjeff said:

I am almost 76 (In March) play to an 8, currently my 5i carry is145 & my driver carry is 200, not sure this helps but it is real.

Looks like you should play tees that give you a total 18-hole distance between 5,220 to no more than about 5,600 yards.

[funkyjudge]

39 minutes ago, Middler said:

I never would have believed it but at my home course:

• They started with 3 - blue (“pro”), white (men) and red (women).
• Then they went to 4 long ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), gold (senior men) and red (women).
• Then they went to 5 quite a while ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men) and red (women).
• Then they went to 6 a few years ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men), red (women) and green (super senior men, senior women, juniors).
• And recently they went to 7 - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men), gold/red hybrid (for senior men who’s ego won’t let them play reds), red (women) and green (super senior men, senior women, juniors).

The scorecard looks busy, but they’re just trying to (over IMO) accommodate members. I do think adding hybrids makes a lot more sense than adding complete new sets of tees, or changing to numbered tees.

 

More often, I see:

black - championship 

blue - long-hitting and/or low-handicap men

white - men’s/members

gold - seniors and low-cap ladies

red - ladies

Occasionally, there are combinations of blue/white, white/gold, and sometimes gold/red tees (almost always indicated solely on the scorecard, but once in a great while I have seen the combinations indicated with a stripe of the alternate color on the tee marker, e.g. - blue marker with white stripe or white marker with blue stripe, white marker with gold stripe or vice-versa). I generally find the alternate-stripe system to be too confusing for most golfers, and my foursome almost got tripped-up by this just a couple days ago, which would have gotten my entire foursome DQ’d, as happened to about a dozen golfers at the same course last year on the same course in the same golf tour.

 

[Rjeff]

8 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

Looks like you should play tees that give you a total 18-hole distance between 5,220 to no more than about 5,600 yards.

play white's all the time except for club championships. Generally, around 6000-6200 Blues tend to be outside my range & difficult to find folks my age playing better off white's. They might be longer but generally do not have short game or putt well enough to play down @ an 8