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How do I convince my golf buddies it's time to change tee boxes?


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2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Three - red, white and blue.

I think that is where the issue comes from. Having 4 or 5 would make it feel less like taking a big step back and offer a better experience for the whole membership.

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14 hours ago, BIG STU said:

In all honesty for me today at sea level I get like 160 out of the 5 iron if I hit it well.

 

... Well, since EGO has been mentioned more than a few times in this thread I thought I would share something from my round today. I had 2 front pins at exactly 185 and a perfect 5 iron for me. Hit the first one well and came just on the fringe... hmmmm. Hit the next one just as well and came up just short of the fringe. WTF? It took the second one for the light bulb to go on. Playing in 100*+ plus temperatures from March to October isn't the same as 67* in Nov/Dec/Jan. There were a few times this summer in 110* and above where I was over the green with a 185 5 iron when the pin was back. So I am thinking winter rounds might be more in the 175-180 with my 5 iron. Of course this would be true for all of my other irons to some degree so I will start playing for 1/2 a club shorter than "normal" as I realized I have not really been long the last several weeks. Just pin high or a little short.  🤪

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
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Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
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35 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Well, since EGO has been mentioned more than a few times in this thread I thought I would share something from my round today. I had 2 front pins at exactly 185 and a perfect 5 iron for me. Hit the first one well and came just on the fringe... hmmmm. Hit the next one just as well and came up just short of the fringe. WTF? It took the second one for the light bulb to go on. Playing in 100*+ plus temperatures from March to October isn't the same as 67* in Nov/Dec/Jan. There were a few times this summer in 110* and above where I was over the green with a 185 5 iron when the pin was back. So I am thinking winter rounds might be more in the 175-180 with my 5 iron. Of course this would be true for all of my other irons to some degree so I will start playing for 1/2 a club shorter than "normal" as I realized I have not really been long the last several weeks. Just pin high or a little short.  🤪

In the winter (brrr…California at 59 degrees 🥶), I add 7 yards to the rangefinder number.

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I take an extra club all winter, sometimes even two extra. But then it gets colder more often in NC vs AZ or CA.

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On 11/25/2022 at 11:34 AM, GaryF said:

Whenever I play with some unknowns, I encourage them to play whatever tees they’d like to play.p, and I tell them I’m playing the 3s (out of 5).  Quite a few of our tee boxes are quite long so no extra driving time with the cart, but even with extra driving, it is ground that will be covered regardless.  I’ve yet to see a Jetson golf cart that does vertical take offs and landings. On our #1 holes, 4 tees are at the same cart path stop. The number 5 is about 50 yards down the CP. 

A few months ago, it was really busy and getting backed up, so I asked the starter if we could go off #10 and he called the clubhouse and was told no.  Then he said about the group in front of us....they must be long hitters as they are playing the 1s (par 4). All in their 30s.  The first guy topped his drive that rolled about 30 yds to the #3 tee.  He then hit a 2nd that went just past the #5, barely on the fairway. Second guy -1st shot -just short of the fairway into a ravine - second shot just past the #5 tee.  Third guy, identical.  3 players, 6 tee shots.  Then 2 had to search for their balls in the ravine.  Took one guy 4 shots to get to the 150 marker.  StArter called the clubhouse and told them he was sending us to #10. 

Now you are lucky the starter had the inititave. Here it would have been "tough Titleist ( yall get that) said the kitty when the milk ran dry especially if tourons were involved. One of the reasons I stick to my home course now. We do not have rangers and we do not do motel packages nor are members with any golf group. As far as violtions like riding the carts in unautorized areas or too close to the greens the members have the authority to tell them and identify themselves as members. But on the other hand the owners do not want us to say anything on pace of play and wrong tees etc. Now we are not exclusively private because they do book on golfnow.com

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15 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Well, since EGO has been mentioned more than a few times in this thread I thought I would share something from my round today. I had 2 front pins at exactly 185 and a perfect 5 iron for me. Hit the first one well and came just on the fringe... hmmmm. Hit the next one just as well and came up just short of the fringe. WTF? It took the second one for the light bulb to go on. Playing in 100*+ plus temperatures from March to October isn't the same as 67* in Nov/Dec/Jan. There were a few times this summer in 110* and above where I was over the green with a 185 5 iron when the pin was back. So I am thinking winter rounds might be more in the 175-180 with my 5 iron. Of course this would be true for all of my other irons to some degree so I will start playing for 1/2 a club shorter than "normal" as I realized I have not really been long the last several weeks. Just pin high or a little short.  🤪

One of the reasons I know my real distances is because I know my course like the back of my hand. I have also plotted my course. On my early dew sweeper rounds I carry an old flag and flagstick that had been broken off. I will place it where I hit from and go to where my ball is at and shoot it to see how far I hit it. I have a notebook full of notes which I have memorized now. Like it has been stated before most people don't hit the ball nearly as far as they think. Like I stated I hit a modern driver only 215 220 or so and my 5 iron 160. 

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Recently, my club pro/coach and I were discussing "next steps" for my game.  After working with him for the past 8 months or so, I knew his solution wasn't going to be "change this" or "change that", but I wasn't sure what he had in mind for next year.  His comment was one of those 🤯 moments.  

He said - I'll give you the rounds with the boys to do as you want (which is usually a Saturday men's club round and a Sunday money game)... but when you come out to practice on the course... I want you to play from the forward tees.  And you need to stay at those tees until you break par for 18 holes.  Then you can move up to the middle tees (yellow), and stay there until you break par... then you can move to the Back tees (whites).  But if you shoot over your White Tee Course Handicap, you have to move up to the forward tees again until you break par again.  If I break par on the white's, I can move to the Players Tees (a mix of whites and blues) and then to the Championship tees (Blues).  

I was taken aback at first... but the more I thought about it... Genius.  

Not only does it ensure I'm playing at the correct set of tees for my skill level (or anyone else employing the same methodology), but it will get me in places on the course I have never been before, and practicing distances I don't normally play when I play my normal tees (Whites @ ~6600 yards).  I might be embarrassed how long it takes me to move out of the forward tees, but I will be a much better player when I do.

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17 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

when you come out to practice on the course... I want you to play from the forward tees.  And you need to stay at those tees until you break par for 18 holes.  Then you can move up to the middle tees (yellow), and stay there until you break par... then you can move to the Back tees (whites).  But if you shoot over your White Tee Course Handicap, you have to move up to the forward tees again until you break par again.  If I break par on the white's, I can move to the Players Tees (a mix of whites and blues) and then to the Championship tees (Blues).  

I was taken aback at first... but the more I thought about it... Genius.  

Not only does it ensure I'm playing at the correct set of tees for my skill level (or anyone else employing the same methodology), but it will get me in places on the course I have never been before, and practicing distances I don't normally play when I play my normal tees (Whites @ ~6600 yards).  I might be embarrassed how long it takes me to move out of the forward tees, but I will be a much better player when I do.

 

... Good stuff for a 3.7 index player. I will say I hear golfers all the time say "anyone can shoot par" according to their instructors. Ummm no, they can't. Golf is difficult to do on one day let alone everyday. One of the starters at my home course is a lady that plays well and my guess would be around a 10 index. She tees off from the start of the fairway, even on par 3's. She shoots around par or under because every par 5 plays like a par 4 and many par 4's play like a par 3 from teeing off so close to the hole. OK, to me this is like saying everyone should make every free throw, so move up right under the basket. I just don't understand the philosophy that everyone can shoot par considering Underpar:

 

"Rest assured that it is really difficult to break par. Less than 1% of golfers that keep a handicap are breaking par relatively consistently. Factor in the massive amount of golfers that do not keep a handicap and that number gets even smaller.

What is the actual number? It is probably impossible to say for sure, but it is probably below 0.5% overall."


... For a skilled player like you, I get it and it seems like a great idea, especially since you will be playing more appropriate tees with friends. There is certainly something to the mental side of the game and again at your skill level, shooting under par can clear a hurdle once you know you can do it regularly. I imagine after doing it from the forward tees, you will have more confidence moving back a tee box and hopefully keeping that mental edge when you get back to your appropriate tees. Looking forays to hearing some scores from the front tees! 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
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Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
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5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Good stuff for a 3.7 index player. I will say I hear golfers all the time say "anyone can shoot par" according to their instructors. Ummm no, they can't. Golf is difficult to do on one day let alone everyday. One of the starters at my home course is a lady that plays well and my guess would be around a 10 index. She tees off from the start of the fairway, even on par 3's. She shoots around par or under because every par 5 plays like a par 4 and many par 4's play like a par 3 from teeing off so close to the hole. OK, to me this is like saying everyone should make every free throw, so move up right under the basket. I just don't understand the philosophy that everyone can shoot par considering Underpar:

 

"Rest assured that it is really difficult to break par. Less than 1% of golfers that keep a handicap are breaking par relatively consistently. Factor in the massive amount of golfers that do not keep a handicap and that number gets even smaller.

What is the actual number? It is probably impossible to say for sure, but it is probably below 0.5% overall."


... For a skilled player like you, I get it and it seems like a great idea, especially since you will be playing more appropriate tees with friends. There is certainly something to the mental side of the game and again at your skill level, shooting under par can clear a hurdle once you know you can do it regularly. I imagine after doing it from the forward tees, you will have more confidence moving back a tee box and hopefully keeping that mental edge when you get back to your appropriate tees. Looking forays to hearing some scores from the front tees! 

Great comments.  And I may have been a little unclear at my coach's motives - or at least what I believe they are.  I believe he is trying to inject a little chaos to my game to get me to think better around a course, and execute a variety of shots that I may or may not normally play when playing from the back or players tees (depending on the match/tournament I'm in).  I don't believe he is questioning whether or not I should be playing forward.  But as I was thinking about the execution of his plan, then reading this thread about how to convince a golfer to move up... I thought this could be a good test for that as well.   And you are also right... I can be guilty of the "fear of going low" mentality.  Can't tell you how many times I got on a heater only to fall apart coming home because I was thinking about "protecting" the score, rather than playing the game I brought - and started out scoring well with.  Golf can drive a sane man (or woman) crazy!!

Again, this play is when I'm out practicing and working on my game - trying to identify where my weaknesses are.  If I'm not shooting par from 5600 yards, there is something in my game (like you said.. as a 3.7 index) that needs some more work.  Add another 600 yards to the middle tees, then another 400 yards to the back tees, and different aspects of my ability will be tested.  

As a positive... if I can work my way to the Champ tees (I broke par last week from the whites 🙂 ).  With my short distances, I will only need to carry 4 clubs in my bag... a Driver off the tee, a 3 wood for all my approach shots, a wedge when I miss the green and the putter. 😉.

 

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7 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Again, this play is when I'm out practicing and working on my game - trying to identify where my weaknesses are.  If I'm not shooting par from 5600 yards, there is something in my game (like you said.. as a 3.7 index) that needs some more work.  Add another 600 yards to the middle tees, then another 400 yards to the back tees, and different aspects of my ability will be tested. 

 

... I think every good player should play from every tee if they get the chance. Now obviously a high index player that doesn't know where their ball is going on every shot doesn't need to play longer tees to learn more about their game but they can certainly learn from moving up and especially playing the forward tees. Good players can learn a lot from playing both back and forward. I would sometimes play with my ex from the forward tees and it was pretty informative on several levels. The tendency is to be more aggressive than normal challenging water and bunker I can't reach from my tees. So I learned a little about when to be aggressive and when to be conservative. I tend to be more conservative from my tees so it was a valuable lesson for me. This should be fun and informative for you and maybe you influence some others to try it too! 🤗

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4 hours ago, Joe Walters said:

The red tees are no longer called ladies tees. They should be referred to as forward tees. A suggestion would be to have yellow or senior tees .

I prefer it when courses do not have red tees at all, instead opting for green or silver, which some courses in my area do.  At least you don’t hear “red tees are for women” in those instances.

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I really have a hard time understanding the ego connection with tees... I mean, I try to play "normally" from tees where I'll have a PW or a 52° as my second shot on the "average par 4" and where reaching most par 5 in 2 is a stretch, a bit of a gamble. That's my "normal" (and quite a bit in line with the "5 iron carry times 33" rule). But I do often tee from the forward tees, the "tour tees" or a combination. It keeps things interesting, different, and offers me the ability to work on different shots. I sometimes play with friends of the fair sex and tee with them. Some par 4 become almost par 3, most par 5 are reachable in 2, the "partial wedge play" comes front more, the driver gets a bit of rest, the 4 wood, 3 hybrid and 4 iron get used on many tee boxes. It's fun, it's refreshing... and we can keep talking a move fast easier that way...
You can get your guys to try mixing up tees a bit, randomly at first (like a roulette to choose the tees for each hole) and have them realize that if you play "serious, competitive golf" and use the index, slope and the rest, it's often times harder to shoot below your handicap from the forward tees as you get less shots from the course... But those shots you shoot are more accessible if you're not as long as you used to be!

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On 11/25/2022 at 8:08 PM, Middler said:

I never would have believed it but at my home course:

  • They started with 3 - blue (“pro”), white (men) and red (women).
  • Then they went to 4 long ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), gold (senior men) and red (women).
  • Then they went to 5 quite a while ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men) and red (women).
  • Then they went to 6 a few years ago - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men), red (women) and green (super senior men, senior women, juniors).
  • And recently they went to 7 - blue (“pro”), white (men), white/gold hybrid, gold (senior men), gold/red hybrid (for senior men who’s ego won’t let them play reds), red (women) and green (super senior men, senior women, juniors).

The scorecard looks busy, but they’re just trying to (over IMO) accommodate members. I do think adding hybrids makes a lot more sense than adding complete new sets of tees, or changing to numbered tees.

 

in France, the standard (recommended and sort of implemented by the federation) is as follows: Black (tour tees... not existing everywhere, far from it, and often not maintained except for pro comps), white (initially for men comps with lower than 11.4 index), yellow (men competitions, with higher than 11.5 index), blue (women competitions, index below 11.4) and red (initially for women of index above 11.5). Then you have orange tees for the kiddies aged less than 12 and with a "high handicap" (national U12 comps are from blue tees more often than not).

Two or three years ago, they decided to act and change the "pro/lower handicap men/higher handicap men/lower handicap women/higher handicap women" description, as indeed a man in his 80s, even if a skilled player, will be usually shorter than a top amateur girl in her 20s and all sort of other "anti-sexist" considerations. They came up with an algorithm that recommends the tees to use based on a mix of age and index.

That's obviously for "recreational play". In proper regional/national competitions, everyone tees up from the same tees, which are likely to be a combo of the black and white tees (for men) and a combo of yellow and blue tees for women. These combos set so that the average single figure handicapper of each sex driving at 230m and 190m respectively are "challenged a bit but not too much" distance wise.

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5 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Now you are lucky the starter had the inititave. Here it would have been "tough Titleist ( yall get that) said the kitty when the milk ran dry especially if tourons were involved. One of the reasons I stick to my home course now. We do not have rangers and we do not do motel packages nor are members with any golf group. As far as violtions like riding the carts in unautorized areas or too close to the greens the members have the authority to tell them and identify themselves as members. But on the other hand the owners do not want us to say anything on pace of play and wrong tees etc. Now we are not exclusively private because they do book on golfnow.com

The staff here is pretty good and they try to be accommodating.  We are semi-private with a nearby ritz and vacation pkgs that are advertised but they are very friendly use our names.  Since Covid (we were never closed), they purchased new carts that have gps w display and they can set boundaries for no drive zones or CPO, and the cart locks up if we cross a boundary.  If we have a complaint, they are cordial in responding, but I’ve never had a reason to complain. And for the most part don’t have many pace of play issues.  They do stress no more than 3 min to look for a lost ball. If I’m in a cart with a slower player I may grab a few clubs with my rangefinder and walk ahead and play-on if I’m not in their way. 

Edited by GaryF

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  • 2 weeks later...

If I’m by myself, I’ll play the back tees: I used to always play back there( driver carry 290) but then the rando’s I get paired with decide to play back there too. My wife just laughs, the male ego is a fragile thing indeed. Nowadays I’ll move up a box just for pace of play. I also appreciate courses that suggest tee boxes based on handicaps or carry distance. Sane golfers will move up when told the carry distance to the fairway will be 240 or more…

On a different note, I think most golf courses should add an even more forward tee. I often notice my wife (driver carry 195) has to hit 3 and 5 woods into most par 4’s - not fun. So now I take a look at the scorecard and suggest making her own tee box on about 1/2 of the par 4’s. So she gets to hit some short irons into greens on occasion.

 

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  • 2 months later...

If your course has a combo tee option that could be a good first step.  The WHS accounts for different tees. So where you play from shouldn’t drastically effect who wins/loses matches or bets.  It’s lot more fun to hit a 7 iron into a green than a 4 hybrid.  If you can get them to move I’ll bet they enjoy the game more. 

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4 minutes ago, jeffjones said:

If your course has a combo tee option that could be a good first step.  The WHS accounts for different tees. So where you play from shouldn’t drastically effect who wins/loses matches or bets.  It’s lot more fun to hit a 7 iron into a green than a 4 hybrid.  If you can get them to move I’ll bet they enjoy the game more. 

One of our dilemmas is that our home course has only three tees - red, white, and blue, with no combination tees. On the scorecard, the tees are listed as “Blue”, “White”, and “Women”. 
I’ve tried to get interest in moving up to the reds, but mostly the response is pitchforks and torches.
It seems like most of the courses with combination tees are a mix of longer and middle tees. 
I would love to have gold tees, in between red and white at our course.

Stay on Target!    94602_x-wing_512x512.png.e6fd366aa256fea54f342bdfaa860cb7.png

pxg-logo-freelogovectors.net_-400x400.png.fd7f603a83c91f76fed4c6245b967a52.png 0811X Gen 4 Driver

pxg-logo-freelogovectors.net_-400x400.png.fd7f603a83c91f76fed4c6245b967a52.png 0311XF Gen 5 Fairway 4 Wood

    Maltby KE4 TC HyWay Utility Wood

  image.png.471e92969c871a065786f650138fd517.pngEQ1-NX Single Length Irons (LW - 7)

  image.png.471e92969c871a065786f650138fd517.pngEQ1-NX Single Length Hybrids (4, 5, 6)

image.png.0d2df83eb1bcf82eb1adec6302909991.png    MEZZ.1 Putter (2022 tester)

image.png.43257b3b93a88cb87b3dfc1ae39a025a.png  Tour Ball X

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  • 2 months later...

Had this same conversation in our league and trip. We have a couple of guys on our trip that are losing interest as they get older. We have allowed them to move up tee boxes to make them more competitive with our group. We have a few "A" players that still hit it a mile and complained about the move, feeling that it should be an age thing. I personally don't care which tees folks hit from. They should hit from a yardage that is enjoyable for them. My argument to those that are low handicappers that want to play up is that it is fine, but their handicap should go down as well. They of course don't like that. Using GHIN handicap aligns no matter which tees you play.

Carry Bag - :titleist-small: Hybrid 14

Cart Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: C130 (Bought in Apr '23)

Driver - :callaway-small: Epic Flash equipped with a Mitsubishi TENSEI AV 65 Stiff shaft

3w - :taylormade-small: RBZ Stage 2 equipped with :taylormade-small:Matrix Ozik Rul 80h shaft 

Hybrid (3 high loft) - :taylormade-small: RBZ Stage 2 equipped with :taylormade-small:Matrix Ozik Rul 80h shaft

Irons - :callaway-small: X-Hot Pro 4-W equipped with Rifle ProjectX95 6.5 shaft

Wedges - :titleist-small: :vokey-small: 48*, 52*, 56* equipped with True Temper shafts

Putter - :titleist-small: :scotty-small: Fastback Select 1.5 equipped with mid size super stroke grip. Weighted 15g in toe and heel

Ball - :titleist-small: Pro V1

All other clubs are gripped with Golf Pride mid size tour wrap grips with 2 layers of tape

 

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... Such an interesting topic with a plethora of scenarios. I turned 70 in March and I am tempted to move up to the senior tees at 6000yds. I can still reach 3 of the four par 5's with two good shots from the mens tees at a little over 6400yds but all are very reachable form the senior tees and the 4th reachable with two stellar shots. But it is a question of a challenge for me. Do I want to see what it is like to be on Tour playing bomb and gouge, although not much gouging going on in the almost roughness desert OR do I want to challenge myself having to hit long irons and the occasional hybrid into the longer par 4's at 439, 422, 430 and 426?

... There are some guys I play with from the senior tees at their request because they like seeing rounds in the 60's since none of them usually break 90, but honestly it feels a little like cheating. It isn't of course because again elite long hitting players play like this all the time. I just have never been a l-o-n-g hitter. Long enough for sure but I have played with too many that outdrive me by 50yds or more. 

... OTOH I talked my 80yr old pard into moving up to the forward tees from the senior tees on par 5's and the longer par 4's and while initially reluctant, he has really enjoyed the move up. Perfect example is the 18th plays uphill off the tee, so little roll and from 403 he had to hit a second shot longer than his tee shot. But from 376 he gets a little more roll because he can catch the top of the upslope and the fairway flattens out giving him about 10 more yards of roll. So instead of a 190yd drive leaving him 215 yds to a green he can't see, he now can hit a 200yd drive and has 166yds and he can hit his hybrid and can see the flag. Choosing the right tees is such an individual decision.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/24/2023 at 9:25 AM, Bulldog said:

One of our dilemmas is that our home course has only three tees - red, white, and blue, with no combination tees. On the scorecard, the tees are listed as “Blue”, “White”, and “Women”. 
I’ve tried to get interest in moving up to the reds, but mostly the response is pitchforks and torches.
It seems like most of the courses with combination tees are a mix of longer and middle tees. 
I would love to have gold tees, in between red and white at our course.

[UPDATE] - Our course got new scorecards and the tees are now listed as "Front", "Middle", and "Back". They also added a blue/white combo.  I spoke to the manager and he said he would look into a red/white combo.  However, he will need to wait until they need to order new scorecards.

Stay on Target!    94602_x-wing_512x512.png.e6fd366aa256fea54f342bdfaa860cb7.png

pxg-logo-freelogovectors.net_-400x400.png.fd7f603a83c91f76fed4c6245b967a52.png 0811X Gen 4 Driver

pxg-logo-freelogovectors.net_-400x400.png.fd7f603a83c91f76fed4c6245b967a52.png 0311XF Gen 5 Fairway 4 Wood

    Maltby KE4 TC HyWay Utility Wood

  image.png.471e92969c871a065786f650138fd517.pngEQ1-NX Single Length Irons (LW - 7)

  image.png.471e92969c871a065786f650138fd517.pngEQ1-NX Single Length Hybrids (4, 5, 6)

image.png.0d2df83eb1bcf82eb1adec6302909991.png    MEZZ.1 Putter (2022 tester)

image.png.43257b3b93a88cb87b3dfc1ae39a025a.png  Tour Ball X

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