Superspeed Squeeze: more speed based on grip strength?

[cnosil]

We are all looking for more speed with our clubs.  Looks like Superspeed has a new produce for gaining that speed and for only $50.   Definitely seems like a cost effective way to try and increase speed.  

https://superspeedgolf.com/products/superspeed-squeeze

I know winter is a great time to work on speed and we have a thread dedicated to holding people accountable to work on speed increases.   All the conditions are there, just wish I had an indoor place to regularly work on speed as it gets pretty cold outdoors.  
 

 

[Kenny B]

23 minutes ago, cnosil said:

We are all looking for more speed with our clubs.  Looks like Superspeed has a new produce for gaining that speed and for only $50.   Definitely seems like a cost effective way to try and increase speed.  

https://superspeedgolf.com/products/superspeed-squeeze

I know winter is a great time to work on speed and we have a thread dedicated to holding people accountable to work on speed increases.   All the conditions are there, just wish I had an indoor place to regularly work on speed as it gets pretty cold outdoors.  
 

Interesting.  I think I'd better wait until they have more data for the Ladies grip pressure!    Seems a little expensive when you can get squeeze balls and do the same exercises.  I guess the PLUS is that you are doing the exercises with a club working on speed while doing them.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

Interesting.  I think I'd better wait until they have more data for the Ladies grip pressure!    Seems a little expensive when you can get squeeze balls and do the same exercises.  I guess the PLUS is that you are doing the exercises with a club working on speed while doing them.

Those type of things tend to work on pinch grip more than actually grip hold onto and support weight/clubs.

it’s why strength athletes do farmer carries and other similar grip work to train grip strength and not really use grippers or squeeze balls

[AndySP]

This is kind of weird to me because doesn’t Jumbomax claim that their grips require less grip pressure….

Grip strength is my only strength (years of rock climbing) but I’ve never felt like it provided a speed advantage. Maybe it’s a threshold strength level kind of issue. 

[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, AndySP said:

This is kind of weird to me because doesn’t Jumbomax claim that their grips require less grip pressure….

Grip strength is my only strength (years of rock climbing) but I’ve never felt like it provided a speed advantage. Maybe it’s a threshold strength level kind of issue. 

They explain that in the video on the site.   It is about how much of max grip strength is used during the swing;  you still want a lighter grip pressure.  

[AndySP]

41 minutes ago, cnosil said:

They explain that in the video on the site.   It is about how much of max grip strength is used during the swing;  you still want a lighter grip pressure.  

I just seems like you would then train strength better with a smaller grip rather than a bigger one, especially if your goal is to get stronger squeezing a smaller grip. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, AndySP said:

I just seems like you would then train strength better with a smaller grip rather than a bigger one, especially if your goal is to get stronger squeezing a smaller grip. 

You train grip with oversized grip. In the fitness industry there are things called fat grips. They are larger grips that go over barbells or dumbbells designed to increase grip strength and muscle. 

[cnosil]

38 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You train grip with oversized grip. In the fitness industry there are things called fat grips. They are larger grips that go over barbells or dumbbells designed to increase grip strength and muscle. 

Yep,  this was mentioned in the short video on the site as well. 

[AndySP]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You train grip with oversized grip. In the fitness industry there are things called fat grips. They are larger grips that go over barbells or dumbbells designed to increase grip strength and muscle. 

I know the theory. Grip training is basically all that I train. 

I’m just saying that it’s notable that Jumbomax says it’s easier to swing a bigger grip, and SS is saying it makes you stronger. 
 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I know the theory. Grip training is basically all that I train. 

I’m just saying that it’s notable that Jumbomax says it’s easier to swing a bigger grip, and SS is saying it makes you stronger. 
 

It’s because there’s less tension than if you are squeezing a thinner grip. Tension in golf is a bad thing.

With the larger grip you aren’t as tense you just have more pressure created to hold on and it allows the wrists to move better. Most amateurs thing you have to death grip the club to create grip pressure but that’s the opposite of what’s needed 

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I know the theory. Grip training is basically all that I train. 

I’m just saying that it’s notable that Jumbomax says it’s easier to swing a bigger grip, and SS is saying it makes you stronger. 
 

Why can’t it be both?  Both are saying you should use lighter grip pressure during the swing.  SS talks about Grip pressure changing during a swing especially during transition so this is where SS seems to focus their attention. SS says that For long drive competitors they uses less percentage of their total grip strength during this part if the swing versus amateurs who use closer to  their max grip pressure.  This increase in pressure creates tension which ultimately lowers swing speed.  

[AndySP]

@cnosilRight, superspeed is saying that you need more grip pressure to swing the club faster without letting go. So they tell you to train with a big grip, which requires more strength/pressure to hold on, in order to train your hands stronger, so that when you go back to your own smaller grip—which requires less strength—you can swing faster with less % max. 
 

@RickyBobby_PR Jumbomax, on the other hand, says just use a big grip because they require less grip pressure /strength to hold on from the get-go.

I don’t know if you are distinguishing tension from grip pressure, but I don’t know any other way to create grip pressure than by squeezing with the muscles connected to my hands.

It just seems like the two companies disagree with each other. No hate, just curious. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, AndySP said:

@cnosilRight, superspeed is saying that you need more grip pressure to swing the club faster without letting go. So they tell you to train with a big grip, which requires more strength/pressure to hold on, in order to train your hands stronger, so that when you go back to your own smaller grip—which requires less strength—you can swing faster with less % max. 
 

@RickyBobby_PR Jumbomax, on the other hand, says just use a big grip because they require less grip pressure /strength to hold on from the get-go.

I don’t know if you are distinguishing tension from grip pressure, but I don’t know any other way to create grip pressure than by squeezing with the muscles connected to my hands.

It just seems like the two companies disagree with each other. No hate, just curious. 

Grip pressure in golf is done in the fingers, typically middle,ring and pinky on the top hand and middle and ring in the bottom hand.

there is no tension in the hands or forearms from this. Tension comes from gripping the club on the palms and squeezing aka a choking the club or a death grip. 
 

Strength and added pressure should be trained and improved in the fingers.

i haven’t watched the video and probably won’t but the jumbo max grips are going to alleviate the death grip in the palm grippers

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, AndySP said:

It just seems like the two companies disagree with each other. No hate, just curious. 

Maybe they are targeting different things.    JumboMax is simply saying that people in general grip too tightly with too much tension and with their grip you will be able to swing faster than if you don't use the grip..basically better technique for lack of a better term.   SS is about training to increase your swing speed to what you can currently swing.

[AndySP]

25 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Grip pressure in golf is done in the fingers, typically middle,ring and pinky on the top hand and middle and ring in the bottom hand.

there is no tension in the hands or forearms from this. Tension comes from gripping the club on the palms and squeezing aka a choking the club or a death grip. 

Hmm, the muscles that contract the fingers almost all connect to the medial epicondyle—the bone on the inside of your forearm. See: https://breakingmuscle.com/more-insight-into-developing-grip-strength-your-hand-digits/ 

Without forearm muscle tension, there is no grip strength.

The muscles in your hands that don’t cross the wrist affect the ability to spread your fingers out and other minor things, but are not flexors if you fingers/wrists. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, AndySP said:

Hmm, the muscles that contract the fingers almost all connect to the medial epicondyle—the bone on the inside of your forearm. See: https://breakingmuscle.com/more-insight-into-developing-grip-strength-your-hand-digits/ 

Without forearm muscle tension, there is no grip strength.

The muscles in your hands that don’t cross the wrist affect the ability to spread your fingers out and other minor things, but are not flexors if you fingers/wrists. 

https://milolinesgolf.com/grip-pressure-and-its-effect-in-the-golf-swing-hold-the-golf-club-the-right-way/

[AndySP]

53 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

https://milolinesgolf.com/grip-pressure-and-its-effect-in-the-golf-swing-hold-the-golf-club-the-right-way/

I think we’re not on the same topic anymore. I’ll just say that feeling a certain way doesn’t always mean that’s what’s actually happening under the hood.

[RickyBobby_PR]

22 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I think we’re not on the same topic anymore. I’ll just say that feeling a certain way doesn’t always mean that’s what’s actually happening under the hood.

You were talking pressure and tension. That conversation between Milo and Henry talk about the difference and go into how to avoid it while maintaining grip pressure. 
 

AMG goes into this as well in severely of their grip videos. 
 

The simple breakdown is that the grip in this thread is to strengthen the grip using oversized grip which helps build the right strength and muscles. Using a small grips or undersized one won’t do that and can cause one to grip the wrong way.

As cnosil also pointed the jumbo max grip is targeting something different. It alleviates the death grip that many have and removes the tension thru the arms and shoulders because it’s harder to death grip something that one can’t wrap their hand around even when using and incorrect grip technique 

[AndySP]

33 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

s cnosil also pointed the jumbo max grip is targeting something different. It alleviates the death grip that many have and removes the tension thru the arms and shoulders because it’s harder to death grip something that one can’t wrap their hand around even when using and incorrect grip technique 

This idea is tough for me to understand. A big grip is harder to hold on to because it requires more strength. I don’t see how jumbomax can agree with SS about this but say the same big grip size also leads to less “death grip” or tension in the arms. 

The problem I’m having with the “tension” thing is that all the muscles that control your grip are in your forearms. Our anatomy doesn’t allow you to squeeze your fingers independently from your wrists. (Though you can flex your wrist independent to you fingers because there are two wrist flexors). 

I believe that grip strength could be important. Superspeed certainly found more strength correlated to higher speed. I just think these theories on what is easiest to grip contradict each other.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, AndySP said:

This idea is tough for me to understand. A big grip is harder to hold on to because it requires more strength. I don’t see how jumbomax can agree with SS about this but say the same big grip size also leads to less “death grip” or tension in the arms. 

The problem I’m having with the “tension” thing is that all the muscles that control your grip are in your forearms. Our anatomy doesn’t allow you to squeeze your fingers independently from your wrists. (Though you can flex your wrist independent to you fingers because there are two wrist flexors). 

I believe that grip strength could be important. Superspeed certainly found more strength correlated to higher speed. I just think these theories on what is easiest to grip contradict each other. 

One can’t over squeeze the club in the fingers like they can in the death grip. While there is going to be the activation of some muscle sim the forearms it’s not going to create thru the arm and into the shoulder. 
 

When there is tension in the arms and into the shoulder affect swing arc, affects release of the club. Right handed golfer is going to cause lots of right to right shots or slices.

There are articles and videos out there on grip pressure and it’s affect on the swing. 

[DrTstandy]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:13 PM, AndySP said:

@cnosilRight, superspeed is saying that you need more grip pressure to swing the club faster without letting go. So they tell you to train with a big grip, which requires more strength/pressure to hold on, in order to train your hands stronger, so that when you go back to your own smaller grip—which requires less strength—you can swing faster with less % max. 
 

@RickyBobby_PR Jumbomax, on the other hand, says just use a big grip because they require less grip pressure /strength to hold on from the get-go.

I don’t know if you are distinguishing tension from grip pressure, but I don’t know any other way to create grip pressure than by squeezing with the muscles connected to my hands.

It just seems like the two companies disagree with each other. No hate, just curious. 

I'll jump in here to explain the product a little better. I am a biomechanics PhD and researcher and have done some of the consulting research on this product. You have to think of this grip and the jumbo max as two different things. When measuring grip strength with a dynamometer, most individuals can create more grip strength with a larger grip, hence the jumbo max product. But the idea of this being thicker and also have some "give" to it, but not too much is so that you can train by first creating isometric holds in golf posture, but second when the grip is on the golf club, the tapering of the grip actually gives golfers the sensation that the club may fly out of your hands and so you end up gripping harder during the training swings, which then increases grip strength in a very golf specific way. 

[DrTstandy]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:32 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Grip pressure in golf is done in the fingers, typically middle,ring and pinky on the top hand and middle and ring in the bottom hand.

there is no tension in the hands or forearms from this. Tension comes from gripping the club on the palms and squeezing aka a choking the club or a death grip. 
 

Strength and added pressure should be trained and improved in the fingers.

i haven’t watched the video and probably won’t but the jumbo max grips are going to alleviate the death grip in the palm grippers

I always go back to the videos and/or pictures of professional golfers coming out of the rough or bombing drives, the muscles that flex the fingers all cross the wrist and so that is why you see that in the forearms. One of the golfers I had in the study actually specifically mentioned feeling more control in some of the fingers that you mentioned so I think it is helping both when you engage those muscles that both flex the wrist and fingers.

[DrTstandy]

On 12/2/2022 at 5:49 PM, AndySP said:

This idea is tough for me to understand. A big grip is harder to hold on to because it requires more strength. I don’t see how jumbomax can agree with SS about this but say the same big grip size also leads to less “death grip” or tension in the arms. 

The problem I’m having with the “tension” thing is that all the muscles that control your grip are in your forearms. Our anatomy doesn’t allow you to squeeze your fingers independently from your wrists. (Though you can flex your wrist independent to you fingers because there are two wrist flexors). 

I believe that grip strength could be important. Superspeed certainly found more strength correlated to higher speed. I just think these theories on what is easiest to grip contradict each other.

Andy I think you have some great things in here that I am seeing in my research and that my experience teaching a musculoskeltal class for 10 years have taught me. You are correct that you cannot flex fingers without your wrist, but can do your wrist without fingers. I mentioned in a different post about the tapering effect of this club actually creating the sensation that it is flying out of your hands a bit during the swing. So I think that is a key different between this and just a jumbo max grip which wouldn't fly out of hands.

[DrTstandy]

Sorry for taking over the thread lol, just saw these pop up and thought I would share my perspective from the research side. I think the take home message is that most amateurs really lack grip strength, we don't want to be at 100% in the swing, we want to have less tension, but we do need a absolute strength value in order to have more options of how to control the club through the swing. Especially at transition when the grip pressure is the largest. Individuals with weak grip strength may start to dump and cast the wrists because they lack the strength to keep those positions. Or they will slow down their swings because they can't handle the forces necessary to keep the club traveling in an arc, i.e. attached to their body, at the higher swing speeds. 

Also I did have multiple people in the study who were doing all the fireman carries, kettle bell walks, dead lifts, etc.. they still saw awesome gains in grip strength and swing speed gains. So I think there is some good specificity in this training that is directly related to the golf swing and grip strength. I'll stop talking now and see if you have any questions I can answer! Always enjoy engaging with passionate golfers!

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, DrTstandy said:

Sorry for taking over the thread lol, just saw these pop up and thought I would share my perspective from the research side. I think the take home message is that most amateurs really lack grip strength, we don't want to be at 100% in the swing, we want to have less tension, but we do need a absolute strength value in order to have more options of how to control the club through the swing. Especially at transition when the grip pressure is the largest. Individuals with weak grip strength may start to dump and cast the wrists because they lack the strength to keep those positions. Or they will slow down their swings because they can't handle the forces necessary to keep the club traveling in an arc, i.e. attached to their body, at the higher swing speeds. 

Also I did have multiple people in the study who were doing all the fireman carries, kettle bell walks, dead lifts, etc.. they still saw awesome gains in grip strength and swing speed gains. So I think there is some good specificity in this training that is directly related to the golf swing and grip strength. I'll stop talking now and see if you have any questions I can answer! Always enjoy engaging with passionate golfers!

No problem posting in the thread; that's why they exist.  The information you posted was interesting. 

[Kenny B]

4 hours ago, DrTstandy said:

Especially at transition when the grip pressure is the largest. Individuals with weak grip strength may start to dump and cast the wrists because they lack the strength to keep those positions. Or they will slow down their swings because they can't handle the forces necessary to keep the club traveling in an arc, i.e. attached to their body, at the higher swing speeds. 

I think you just described me... old... weak grip strength... can't hold position long enough in the downswing;  all this at a lower swing speed.  

[AndySP]

4 hours ago, DrTstandy said:

Andy I think you have some great things in here that I am seeing in my research and that my experience teaching a musculoskeltal class for 10 years have taught me. You are correct that you cannot flex fingers without your wrist, but can do your wrist without fingers. I mentioned in a different post about the tapering effect of this club actually creating the sensation that it is flying out of your hands a bit during the swing. So I think that is a key different between this and just a jumbo max grip which wouldn't fly out of hands.

Dr Standifird! I really appreciate that you’re taking the time here. I’ve enjoyed hearing you talk golf elsewhere.

The taper difference makes sense to me, I didn’t gather that from the media on the site. I still wonder what that says about the straight / non tapered versions of the jumbomax grips though?

Im interested in the force outputs at different grip sizes. In the climbing finger strength research, it’s been observed that isometric strength training develops only about 15 degrees or so of adaptation through the joint angles. Many climbers display very specific strengths/preferences in grip position as a result. Dynamometer strength doesn’t predict climbing strength very well, but it seems to be closer to golf, except the wrist angle. So maybe a test could show what grip size would be best for each person.

I tried not to sound like I was doubting any of the research, so I hope that came through. I hope grip strength does something because it’s about the only thing I’m good at, lol. Having a background in rock climbing hasn’t had crossover anywhere else in my life yet. It would also somewhat explain why i have decent speed compared to my size and weight. 

[DrTstandy]

43 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

I think you just described me... old... weak grip strength... can't hold position long enough in the downswing;  all this at a lower swing speed.  

Well there is still hope! I did actually use my 75 year old dad as one of the study participants. He was able to increase grip strength by about 8% and also picked up about 3 mph of swing speed. He called me after finishing the first month and told me that he could also trim rose bushes for much longer in the yard, which makes my mom very happy! Older golfers definitely struggle with this and could really help them which is why I made sure I had a few over the age of 65 in the first study group.

[DrTstandy]

7 minutes ago, AndySP said:

Dr Standifird! I really appreciate that you’re taking the time here. I’ve enjoyed hearing you talk golf elsewhere.

The taper difference makes sense to me, I didn’t gather that from the media on the site. I still wonder what that says about the straight / non tapered versions of the jumbomax grips though?

Im interested in the force outputs at different grip sizes. In the climbing finger strength research, it’s been observed that isometric strength training develops only about 15 degrees or so of adaptation through the joint angles. Many climbers display very specific strengths/preferences in grip position as a result. Dynamometer strength doesn’t predict climbing strength very well, but it seems to be closer to golf, except the wrist angle. So maybe a test could show what grip size would be best for each person.

I tried not to sound like I was doubting any of the research, so I hope that came through. I hope grip strength does something because it’s about the only thing I’m good at, lol. Having a background in rock climbing hasn’t had crossover anywhere else in my life yet. It would also somewhat explain why i have decent speed compared to my size and weight. 

Ya so the squeeze does taper, but it also has that opening that fits around the existing grip. That is the one that kind of tapers down but creates that sensation that it has the potential to slip a little which causes you to grip tighter, its hard to describe, but I think different than the taper in the jumbomax.

Ya so I have done some testing just by playing around with the dynamometer by increasing and decreasing the position of the device. And there are for sure differences as you allow the position of the hand to change. You are spot on with rock climbing, I actually did a bunch of grip testing because I have some good friends that do a ton of rock climbing, the device couldn't get small enough to show their actual strength in those most distal interphalangeal joints. I would love to figure out if you could set the dynamometer at different widths and see a ratio of strength as it changes sizes as a way to predict what grip size would be best. Really great club fitter will do this, and I think I remember seeing someone present on this at a conference saying like 60% of golfers are in the wrong grip size. It would be cool to create a way to determine this without having to go to a club fitter.

Oh that didn't come through at all, I love the questions! Haha ya I am training a rock climber right now trying to figure out all of the best exercises for them to do in the gym, figuring some things out, but ya his grip strength is impressive, he will do these handing exercises on a door frame in between sets or bring his hang board, its crazy! 

Oh and in the future Tyler is just fine, Dr. Standifird is too much of a mouthful! 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

@DrTstandyfyi thanks for assisting in my Twitter question about Chs and correlating it to driver speed.