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Paying Extra For Club Members To Walk


Golf2Much

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My home club memberships are renewed every November 1st.  After years of relatively flat fees for local annual members, the last several years they started to pass along nominal price increases. These included increased membership, cart and bag room fees.  Fortunately, a majority of the increases have been passed along to non-members and visitors to our fair island. 

One of the advantages of being a member is that it allows you to walk the back nine early in the morning and late in the afternoon at no charge.  Any other times you are required to take a cart.  It's been like that for over 20 years.  This year, the golf club instituted a new policy that if you wanted to walk in the morning or late in the day, you had to pay an additional $500 a person or $750 per couple on top of your annual membership.   Those who do not pay the extra fee will not be allowed to walk the course, ever!  Given we only have a short netted driving range, many people used the morning walking round to get in some needed practice in.    When we pushed back on the added fee, we basically got two answers.  First, back nine walkers were interfering with first group off cart riding players making the turn.  That was somewhat true, but only really an issue in the dead of summer when we would tee off about 6:30AM.  Even then, the walkers were very respectful and really didn't hold up the other golfers.  The second answer made more sense:  walker so not add to course revenue.  They do not take carts (and therefore no cart fees).  They do not purchase food or drinks at the club house.  So, the club management decided to tax the walkers to make up for the lost revenue and help offset rising salaries need to retain their workers.   

The course has somewhat of a monopoly.  The next closest course is 60 miles away (and not that great) and the next closest is 160 miles away.  They have their local members over a barrel.  

I'm curious if this is unique or something done at other courses?  Has anyone else had a similar situation?  I'd appreciate any insight just to help me rationalize this as there's little or nothing we can actually do.

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Is yours the Reese Jones course?  Played their over Christmas break last winter…

Anyway, I feel for you - because they do have a monopoly. I was surprised there was only one course in Key West. 

I belong to two clubs - One is more remote and has a set “trail fee” or cart fee. That’s what I’m paying walking or riding per day - doesn’t matter if I play 9 or 72…, going to cost me  $25 per day. The other is in town and doesn’t charge me anything if I walk. I think I’m the only non-collegiate or high schooler that does walk so I’ve slipped thru the net. They charge a trail fee to people who have their own carts, and members have the option of paying an annual cart rental fee. But I don’t fall into either category, never check either box on the annual dues form and they’ve never asked me about it. I have often joked I’m the pro’s worst member because I don’t pay a cart fee and as I play at dawn im not buying food or drinks; however I’m the super’s best member because I walk… and fix ball marks.

But $500 for walking - that seems steep.  How many cart rentals would that be?

 

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It isn't something I have ever heard of to be honest. However most all the courses I play here people nearly only walk. It is rare to see a cart. There were courses I played in Canada which were cart only and for good reason. The distances between holes were too great and the one that I did walk was exhausting even with a push cart so typically nobody would walk those courses anyway. 

I get why they are doing it, but also I don't. I can't help but think about maintenance costs for carts and how encouraging more while should make more money would also increase costs of repairs or gas or electricity and so on. Just my two cents, but i guess an added question is how "walkable" is the course? Is it set up more for carts or more for walking?

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I've never heard of that before although I've heard of clubs charging a nominal walking fee because they miss out on cart fees and that is one way of looking at what they're doing.

I think you're all over a barrel on this one.

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57 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

My least favorite part about golf courses in the US is the reliance on golf carts

This 1000% my current course has a lower rate if you walk, but the other course they own its the same rate, cart or walk which I hate. I don't play there often and it is a hard walk so I am sure almost no one walks. It is just a shame as I find walking a course the most enjoyable way to if possible.

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The wife and I both prefer to walk (unless it is balz hot - mid-day).  Our club membership includes all green fees - but we have to pay $22 for a cart for 18 and $12 for 9.  NBD - but the difference between green fees for non members walking vs riding is less than the cart fees for members.  That's kinda ticky tack, IMO.  

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13 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Is yours the Reese Jones course?  Played their over Christmas break last winter…

Yes it is.  After your hip is fully recovered and you make your way back to my part of the world, please let me know.  It would be great comparing joint replacement stories.  Plus, in about a month, I'll be having my Pro Putt green installed.  

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Callaway Epic 3 wood, Project X Evenflow Green 45 gram senior shaft  
Callaway GBB Epic Heavenwood, with a Mitsubishi Diamana 50 gram senior shaft
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Ping G 26 degree hybrid, stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft
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I'm a member of a stock/equity club and was elected to the Board of Directors in May after being nominated by another BoD's member. I took this responsibility seriously and dove into learning everything I could about the club. I felt it might be beneficial to try to learn about neighboring clubs throughout the region. We may, at some point, like to know how others manage their facilities. It's been quite educational and informative. It's also been surprising in a lot of ways. The average golfer would never know what goes into the day-to-day operation of a club. I know I didn't!

Several clubs around my region have started charging in nonsensical ways like this. I learned one club that charges a cart fee to anyone choosing to walk. Another charges a "trail fee" for anyone choosing to walk. It's apparently slightly cheaper than a cart fee but essentially the same thing.  This same club also charges anyone with the audacity to use a push cart an additional fee on top of the "trail fee." I asked the Board member why? His response was "they make the club look bad and damage our reputation so we try to keep people from using them without making them illegal or anything." He wasn't the brightest bulb on the tree!

Interestingly, I learned three clubs within a 90 minute radius of us will be doubling membership dues beginning in 2023 in a effort to reduce membership by half. Yes, they want to cut their membership in half by pricing out half the current roster of members! One of those clubs will be disallowing walking altogether in 2023. 

Welcome to golf in the US!!!

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@sixcat, I developed a survey of golf clubs in my area as a member of a private club in Update New York over 20 years ago.  Those clubs that participated got access to the information generated.  We surveyed the member presidents and club general managers on governance, structure, policies and practices as part of a long-range strategy effort.  We had 14 clubs respond.  I worked 10 months to solicit, collect and analyze the data.  Then I had to take the results and make recommendations on potential changes to the club's bylaws and procedures.  I put together a PowerPoint presentation with the findings for the Board.   After the presentation, I got a brush-off "thank you" from the single digit handicap Board members and nothing happened.   It was at that point I knew this was not the club that I wanted to be a member of, so I resigned!

Ping G430 Max driver 10.5 degrees with an Alta Quick45 gram senior shaft
Callaway Epic 3 wood, Project X Evenflow Green 45 gram senior shaft  
Callaway GBB Epic Heavenwood, with a Mitsubishi Diamana 50 gram senior shaft
Ping G 20.5 degree 7 wood, with a stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft
Ping G 26 degree hybrid, stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft
Callaway Paradym X irons, 7-AW with Aldila Ascent Blue 50 graphite shafts
Edison wedges:  50, 55 and 60 degree, KBS Tour Graphite A flex shafts
Putters:  L.A.B. Direct Force 2.1 putter, 34.5" long, 67 degrees lie
 
2022 MGS Tester:  Shot Scope Pro XL+ with H4  
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33 minutes ago, sixcat said:

This same club also charges anyone with the audacity to use a push cart an additional fee on top of the "trail fee." I asked the Board member why? His response was "they make the club look bad and damage our reputation so we try to keep people from using them without making them illegal or anything."

If you charge everyone to walk or ride shouldn't use just raise the greens fee, I mean no one is paying less than the greens fee plus this trail fee. Though I guess it helps on deal searches and stuff. Reminds me of ticket resellers with all the fees they charge, and of course I don't mean that in a good way.

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48 minutes ago, Golf2Much said:

@sixcat, I developed a survey of golf clubs in my area as a member of a private club in Update New York over 20 years ago.  Those clubs that participated got access to the information generated.  We surveyed the member presidents and club general managers on governance, structure, policies and practices as part of a long-range strategy effort.  We had 14 clubs respond.  I worked 10 months to solicit, collect and analyze the data.  Then I had to take the results and make recommendations on potential changes to the club's bylaws and procedures.  I put together a PowerPoint presentation with the findings for the Board.   After the presentation, I got a brush-off "thank you" from the single digit handicap Board members and nothing happened.   It was at that point I knew this was not the club that I wanted to be a member of, so I resigned!

I love my home club. It's exceptionally well run. We are fortunate to have a GM/Head Pro from Canada that is the best in the business. I know I'm a bit biased but from where we were 16 years ago when he arrived, to where we are now is amazing. We are financially secure. The only debt we have is from purchasing a whole new fleet of golf carts two months ago. Even then, we only financed about a third of the total cost.

We have gotten exactly 50 membership applications since January 1, 2022. In my research, we received a total of 54 applications from November 2006 (my application) to December 31, 2021! That was shocking to me. We only have around 30 remaining shares of stock available. We are currently trying to locate stockholders we have no record of ever being members in an effort to buy back the stock. They were a part of the initial stock drive before the club was built in the 1950's but never joined the club after construction. We have a list of names, phone numbers and addresses but haven't been able to locate any of them. None of the current club members recognize the names. Most of the addresses and phone numbers are no longer valid. It's quite an undertaking. 

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22 hours ago, Golf2Much said:

 ...the club management decided to tax the walkers to make up for the lost revenue and help offset rising salaries need to retain their workers.   .

If you try to sit I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk I'll tax your feet
Taxman!

Only a poorly managed outfit would resort to a walking tax as a revenue capture, pretty weird, will need to bite my tongue on the rest, does McCartney sit on the board...  😠

 

 

 

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Not only did I get a $110/month membership increase, this week they took away the free range balls for members, non members pay $6. Well, we fought back and this morning our free range bucket was restored.

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

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43 minutes ago, fozcycle said:

Not only did I get a $110/month membership increase, this week they took away the free range balls for members, non members pay $6. Well, we fought back and this morning our free range bucket was restored.

We don't get free anything; we are a muni, but our dues for next year are actually a few dollars less than we paid last year.  The club had a really good year with record rounds played.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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My wife and I like to walk when we golf (imho that's the way the game is meant to be played) and last year we tried a private club for the first time.

Now in all the years we played munis and walked - no extra fee. At the private club - "trail" fee. Purportedly for grounds maintenance where the walkers, uhhh, "wear out the grass" I was told.

This year we're at a different club primarily because they allow walkers anytime (I asked about this a LOT before commiting) .. and yeah they do charge a fee each round for using a push cart; less than the riding fee.

Is it fair, imo? Prob not. But otoh I can see the rationale .. as in older, both in age and more years of membership, members who ride and say why aren't the walkers also paying something per round for grounds maintenance?

Oh fyi walk and carry a bag is no extra charge.

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We are a public course but owned by one man. The same who closed my club of 12 years(Pebble Creek) in July 2021. He also owns another course about 15 miles away .  He doesn’t play golf just wants the money.  He is still trying to change the zoning so he can build houses on the old course. It’s just that, on limited income, it’s difficult to eat an increase of $110/month. Now, I like the course and club but after 20 years of running the Saturday Game, I am thinking about retiring, walking away because I can’t find anyone willing to keep it up, the weekly updates usually take 1/2 day plus the weekly email and tracking the RSVP’s to set up the tee sheet for the next week. And I have to do it remotely if I go out of town. SWMBO wants me to “retire”.  There are several clubs that have less expensive membership options.  If I walk away and join another club, I could just play. 
 

Back on this topic, I dreamed of walking before I retired, but found I have a ligament injury in my left ankle that prohibits that.  Our club lets walkers out after 11:00.  They also have a player development program at $50/month that lets walkers out after 2 pm to play at no additional charge.

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

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I've never been at a private course (or a public one for that matter) that charged a walking fee.  I find that insane!  It would also be ridiculous on a public course!  If they need revenue, then you increase dues overall and/or increase daily green fees, not a separate walking fee.  It's normal to see increases in green fees and/or dues.  Inventing new ways to tax people is maddening.

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On 12/1/2022 at 3:31 PM, sixcat said:

We are currently trying to locate stockholders we have no record of ever being members in an effort to buy back the stock. They were a part of the initial stock drive before the club was built in the 1950's but never joined the club after construction. We have a list of names, phone numbers and addresses but haven't been able to locate any of them.

We have this same issue at our course but we know who a lot of them are, it is just that they are dead or they won't sell the stock back. You can't change any rules to fix this because the ones that do vote, vote against the changes.

23 hours ago, MacTourney said:

Only a poorly managed outfit would resort to a walking tax as a revenue capture

Amen but if they can get away with it, they will do it.

7 hours ago, fozcycle said:

I am thinking about retiring, walking away because I can’t find anyone willing to keep it up, the weekly updates usually take 1/2 day plus the weekly email and tracking the RSVP’s to set up the tee sheet for the next week. And I have to do it remotely if I go out of town. SWMBO wants me to “retire”.  There are several clubs that have less expensive membership options.  If I walk away and join another club, I could just play.

Never knew what "SWMBO" meant. Think I would pass on ever using it now that I know it... Just take the 3 most reliable and fun guys and make a foursome. If anyone complains, drop the paperwork on their lap. Someone has to be narcissistic enough to run your group. I personally think you must over think it or cater too much. Throw away the weekly updates and tracking. One email. In or out. Blind draw quota at the end and call it done for the week.

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1 hour ago, Muckinfiddle said:

We have this same issue at our course but we know who a lot of them are, it is just that they are dead or they won't sale the stock back. You can't change any rules to fix this because the ones that do vote, vote against the changes.

We have a little over 40 shares of stock we can’t locate the owner. We have a list but the list is from the 1950’s. We are currently working with law enforcement to try to find the shareholder or next of kin. It appears most of them moved out of the area in the 1960’s.

With the 30 or so shares we’ve been able to buy back, we could get our active membership right at he capped limit if we could get those 40 some shares back. 

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I walk with a remote controlled cart, and am a member at a private club. I pay to store my cart at the club. If I had to pay a walking fee, or an additional fee to use my own cart, I would probably leave. We have had a lot of new members, but no increase in dues for two years, so, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a dues hike this year. I just don’t want to see a bunch of rinky dink add ons.

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On 11/30/2022 at 6:22 PM, Golf2Much said:

My home club memberships are renewed every November 1st.  After years of relatively flat fees for local annual members, the last several years they started to pass along nominal price increases. These included increased membership, cart and bag room fees.  Fortunately, a majority of the increases have been passed along to non-members and visitors to our fair island. 

One of the advantages of being a member is that it allows you to walk the back nine early in the morning and late in the afternoon at no charge.  Any other times you are required to take a cart.  It's been like that for over 20 years.  This year, the golf club instituted a new policy that if you wanted to walk in the morning or late in the day, you had to pay an additional $500 a person or $750 per couple on top of your annual membership.   Those who do not pay the extra fee will not be allowed to walk the course, ever!  Given we only have a short netted driving range, many people used the morning walking round to get in some needed practice in.    When we pushed back on the added fee, we basically got two answers.  First, back nine walkers were interfering with first group off cart riding players making the turn.  That was somewhat true, but only really an issue in the dead of summer when we would tee off about 6:30AM.  Even then, the walkers were very respectful and really didn't hold up the other golfers.  The second answer made more sense:  walker so not add to course revenue.  They do not take carts (and therefore no cart fees).  They do not purchase food or drinks at the club house.  So, the club management decided to tax the walkers to make up for the lost revenue and help offset rising salaries need to retain their workers.   

The course has somewhat of a monopoly.  The next closest course is 60 miles away (and not that great) and the next closest is 160 miles away.  They have their local members over a barrel.  

I'm curious if this is unique or something done at other courses?  Has anyone else had a similar situation?  I'd appreciate any insight just to help me rationalize this as there's little or nothing we can actually do.

My course is semi private, member play goes until 1 then the public can purchase times.  Unfortunately charges a walking/trail feet. $5-9/$10-18 during the week and the weekends it’s $18-18. It drives me absolutely absurd that we have to pay it. No restrictions on when we can walk the course though. However my friends at the local country club do not get  charged to walk whatsoever and they have no restrictions 

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On 12/1/2022 at 8:10 AM, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Unfortunately this is golf in the US.  Cart fees are what keeps most courses in the black.  Sounds like your club has everyone taking carts factored into their budget, so therefore they need to collect that money from walkers as well so they meet their projected cash flow numbers.

My least favorite part about golf courses in the US is the reliance on golf carts

At my course it’s $35 per person taking a cart. I can understand why it keeps them in the black

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6 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

At my course it’s $35 per person taking a cart. I can understand why it keeps them in the black

Yikes!  That's a bit steep!  What are green fees?

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I play regularly at two courses and neither charges a fee to walk. Although, you do have to be a member, or a guest of a member, at either course to walk.

One course has quite a few walkers and at the other I rarely see other walkers because it’s very hilly. I would not pay an additional fee to walk.

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My home course charges members and non-members for carts on all holidays, but members are otherwise never charged if they walk.

Golf courses are businesses and however they choose to (re)structure rates to increase revenue there will be members who agree or disagree. Not meant as a dig but when courses are in a position to improve profitability some complain. But when they’re struggling to cover costs, like the recent pandemic, many people couldn’t care less. Businesses have to adapt to all circumstances.

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18 hours ago, CarlH said:

Yikes!  That's a bit steep!  What are green fees?

No green fees for members. Public during premium times pay anywhere from $60-$85 for a round. 

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3 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

No green fees for members. Public during premium times pay anywhere from $60-$85 for a round. 

I don't think I've seen cart fees that high anywhere that I've played.  The clubs that I've belonged to had fees of around $20-24/cart (not person).  Your green fees for guests is in line with my experiences for private clubs/country clubs.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/1/2022 at 8:10 AM, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Unfortunately this is golf in the US.  Cart fees are what keeps most courses in the black.  Sounds like your club has everyone taking carts factored into their budget, so therefore they need to collect that money from walkers as well so they meet their projected cash flow numbers.

My least favorite part about golf courses in the US is the reliance on golf carts

I agree wholeheartedly.  What I have been noticing around me is that courses basically give you very little break on price for walking, clearly IMO trying to discourage people from walking.  At a couple you only save $5 for walking (Kind of like they don't really want you to play nine, as 9+cart, is 75% or more cost of 18+cart, SHOULDN'T IT BE 50%, and they wonder why nobody plays 9?)  Even though we all know improper use of a cart, can slow down a round way more than walking.

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