Golf schools and Academies

[Goober]

Attended the Tour Striker Academy 2 weeks ago. Really enjoyed my time with Mr Martin Chuck / his staff / and the randoms who were in my class. Biggest thing I learned is the swing is all about match ups. Many of us would never do well being mega shallow or wide open squatting hips at impact. Have to find what combination works well for us. Even if it isn’t the newest swing teaching fad on instagram. According the Mr Chuck the score card tells us if our swings our working. Great learning experience and will do this again in the spring as a follow up At the Raven training center. Only negative is I had to rent clubs from the Raven. Since I had some bad experiences taking clubs on a flight In the past 

 

Let’s hear some academies you all attended. And what positives you took from them 

[cnosil]

I haven’t attended any of the larger schools, but have attended smaller local schools/clinics for specific topics like short game and vector putting.   They can be beneficial given the right student/instructor ratio.  The only negative I can see is that if some of the students need more attention others will potentially suffer with less attention.   This is why I lean toward one on one type instruction and would leave the group work to be something more like supervised practice or larger principles like aimpoint.  

[Goober]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

I haven’t attended any of the larger schools, but have attended smaller local schools/clinics for specific topics like short game and vector putting.   They can be beneficial given the right student/instructor ratio.  The only negative I can see is that if some of the students need more attention others will potentially suffer with less attention.   This is why I lean toward one on one type instruction and would leave the group work to be something more like supervised practice or larger principles like aimpoint.  

Good post. We had one guy in our group who was really really struggling. Shanks, fats, thins .. the whole nine yards. After the first day he was like a new golfer. Really amazing the changes they made in his swing. But it did seem like they focused a little more on him than others.  I treated it like an intro into The Tour Striker program. Will go back this spring and maybe get more hands on 

[Golf2Much]

I attended a Bird Golf Academy school for three days in Boca Raton, Florida about a year and a half ago.  I went with a friend, and we were the only two our instructor, three-time major winner Mary Mills.  My friend had several things he wanted to work on.   I had one primary question I wanted answered:  can I ever get any better?  I'm 66 with a new left knee, a broken neck and more surgically repaired joint that I care to mention.  After going over some introductory comments, we headed to the range.  We started with drivers.  Mary took us both individually, assessed our swings and made some drills suggestions.  Then she had us hit a bunch of balls while watching and recording on her iPad.  When we rested, she'd pull out the iPad, showed us our swings against up other golfers' swings and made recommendations.  About two hours in, she pulled me aside and answered my burning question.  No, your inflexibility will physically prevent you from making certain moves necessary to see significant improvement.  She added that nominal improvements through clubs, shafts were likely possible.  After hearing that, I was actually relieved!  We each would work on specific drills during the morning, each lunch and then head out to the course.  Mary would follow us as we played the first nine all the time filming us and making recommendations.  At the turn, she would leave and my friend I would play the back nine.  Luckily, our hotel had happy hour and a warm hot tub to help with our sore muscles!

This continued for two more days.  The second day we worked on irons and the third day we worked on bunkers, pitching and chipping.  Each day finished with playing 18 holes which was a challenge give the number of balls we hit in the morning.  After the three days we got a link to download all the videos Mary took plus other players' swing videos to highlight where our issues might be.  

Was it worth it?  For me, yes.  I found out that "I am who I am" and that incremental improvements are the best I can hope for.  I'm OK with that (and truthfully, I sort of expected that outcome).  I got to practice and play at a great course.  I helped a friend experience a lifelong dream of attending a sports camp.  I also got some great feedback on my better than average short game. 

My friend returned and dropped his handicap four strokes over the next several months (15 to 11 and down to 10 for a few weeks).  A part of that several months was taking the time to practice the things we learned.   Our home course really doesn't have a decent practice area, so we agreed to meet early each Thursday morning and we'd walk four of five holes in our back nine to hit shots together to reinforce what we learned.   That definitely helped to internalize what we learned.  

[MacTourney]

4 hours ago, Golf2Much said:

I attended a Bird Golf Academy school for three days in Boca Raton, Florida about a year and a half ago.  I went with a friend, and we were the only two our instructor, three-time major winner Mary Mills. 

What a treat that must have been, nice!   Didn't know much about Mary Mills but your post prompted some digging and glad I did, a wonderful story and she was a player, thanks for posting.  Oh yes, the '63 fist pump...

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by MacTourney

[JohnL.Franzen]

I tried a beginner class and a few individual classes. I have decided for myself that I am not the type of person who can do anything while someone is watching. I like to listen to my instructor and then he will come over and show me something and then let me do it independently while he goes to another student. This is the perfect way for me to learn when no one is constantly watching me try to do something. I also love learning about sports through online sources like https://essays.studymoose.com/college-papers because studying at home appeals to me. I know that many students do not find such a method very useful. However, I order college papers not only for my academic assignments, but also for my personal development. These expert writers teach me things that are easier for me to learn than sitting in a classroom and listening to a monotonous and boring tutor speaking his lesson.

Edited December 21, 2022 by JohnL.Franzen

[MacTourney]

3 hours ago, JohnL.Franzen said:

I tried a beginner class and a few individual classes. I have decided for myself that I am not the type of person who can do anything while someone is watching. I like to listen to my instructor and then he will come over and show me something and then let me do it independently while he goes to another student. This is the perfect way for me to learn when no one is constantly watching me try to do something.

New myself compared to others, but welcome anyway!   How do you handle being on the first tee with a few groups in back of you awaiting their bite at the apple.

[fixyurdivot]

17 hours ago, Golf2Much said:

I attended a Bird Golf Academy school for three days in Boca Raton, Florida about a year and a half ago.  I went with a friend, and we were the only two our instructor, three-time major winner Mary Mills.  My friend had several things he wanted to work on.   I had one primary question I wanted answered:  can I ever get any better?  I'm 66 with a new left knee, a broken neck and more surgically repaired joint that I care to mention.  After going over some introductory comments, we headed to the range.  We started with drivers.  Mary took us both individually, assessed our swings and made some drills suggestions.  Then she had us hit a bunch of balls while watching and recording on her iPad.  When we rested, she'd pull out the iPad, showed us our swings against up other golfers' swings and made recommendations.  About two hours in, she pulled me aside and answered my burning question.  No, your inflexibility will physically prevent you from making certain moves necessary to see significant improvement.  She added that nominal improvements through clubs, shafts were likely possible.  After hearing that, I was actually relieved!  We each would work on specific drills during the morning, each lunch and then head out to the course.  Mary would follow us as we played the first nine all the time filming us and making recommendations.  At the turn, she would leave and my friend I would play the back nine.  Luckily, our hotel had happy hour and a warm hot tub to help with our sore muscles!

This continued for two more days.  The second day we worked on irons and the third day we worked on bunkers, pitching and chipping.  Each day finished with playing 18 holes which was a challenge give the number of balls we hit in the morning.  After the three days we got a link to download all the videos Mary took plus other players' swing videos to highlight where our issues might be.  

Was it worth it?  For me, yes.  I found out that "I am who I am" and that incremental improvements are the best I can hope for.  I'm OK with that (and truthfully, I sort of expected that outcome).  I got to practice and play at a great course.  I helped a friend experience a lifelong dream of attending a sports camp.  I also got some great feedback on my better than average short game. 

My friend returned and dropped his handicap four strokes over the next several months (15 to 11 and down to 10 for a few weeks).  A part of that several months was taking the time to practice the things we learned.   Our home course really doesn't have a decent practice area, so we agreed to meet early each Thursday morning and we'd walk four of five holes in our back nine to hit shots together to reinforce what we learned.   That definitely helped to internalize what we learned.  

Great post and kudo's to Mary for just being brutally honest.  Blowing hot air up students backsides is really a disservice. My only swing restriction involves my left shoulder.  Like so many, we just adjust accordingly.  With the injuries you've had and still playing to an 11 handicap is great. 

In answer to the OP, I've considered attending a golf school/academy but never pulled the trigger.  In addition to Monte Scheinblum, I really like Todd Kolb and the way he comes across. Part of my reluctance follows @cnosilcomments about lack of 1:1 instruction. For me, I'd rather work solo with a coach. My worst memories of playing this game (which started in 1967), was with an instructor in my early 20's who attempted to reconstruct my swing.  It was a total mess and that experience, timed with other life events, had me out of the game for about 5 years.  I'm at a place in age/game where I really just want to find a swing coach that can help me work minor adjustments for more consistent ball striking and fewer weak fade shots.  Also someone who works around my shoulder limitation. Simply not wasting a half dozen shots during a round would result in better scoring.

[Golf2Much]

16 hours ago, MacTourney said:

What a treat that must have been, nice!   Didn't know much about Mary Mills but your post prompted some digging and glad I did, a wonderful story and she was a player, thanks for posting.  Oh yes, the '63 fist pump...

 

Thank you for the pictures.  She was a great lady.  Her career was cut short due to the yips and injury.  She was a great player and life after playing she designed golf courses and a solid instructor.

[Goober]

Great write ups. I will be going back for sure to the Tour Striker School. And wouldn’t hesitate to try others down the road 

[cksurfdude]

When I first started golfing a multi-day immersive school seemed like a good idea .. and David Leadbetter seemed like a known and reputable name .. well.... I certainly enjoyed it, and got something out of it, but in retrospect I should have been a little further along in my game understand better what they were telling me and to get more out of it.

Another thing I didn't know or understand then was that the Leadbetter schools teach to David's current swing model .. which can change over time...

Side note: I'm reductant to criticize Martin Chuck as he seems like a very nice guy, and he has donated a slot in one of his clinics for MGS testing, but... imho when I see one of his vids from time to time the way he explains things seem to change - so don't know if he's re-stating his teaching in a new way vs teaching a newer method? - but I also see that he makes a lotta use out of training aids during his instruction (ie. Tour Striker branded training aids; that said nothing wrong with trying to make an extra buck).

Anyway...

Several years later had a much better experience - as did my wife - at a Nancy Lopez "Play Happy" multi-day school. In fact we've been back for a second one, at Keystone CO where she has a home.

She and her two teaching pros are really wonderful, and they easily adapt to players of all skill levels while making sure each person got plenty of individual attention. Cannot recommend it enough if someone wanted to bring their significant other along!

[Goober]

1 minute ago, cksurfdude said:

When I first started golfing a multi-day immersive school seemed like a good idea .. and David Leadbetter seemed like a known and reputable name .. well.... I certainly enjoyed it, and got something out of it, but in retrospect I should have been a little further along in my game understand better what they were telling me and to get more out of it.

Another thing I didn't know or understand then was that the Leadbetter schools teach to David's current swing model .. which can change over time...

Side note: I'm reductant to criticize Martin Chuck as he seems like a very nice guy, and he has donated a slot in one of his clinics for MGS testing, but... imho when I see one of his vids from time to time the way he explains things seem to change - so don't know if he's re-stating his teaching in a new way vs teaching a newer method? - but I also see that he makes a lotta use out of training aids during his instruction (ie. Tour Striker branded training aids; that said nothing wrong with trying to make an extra buck).

Anyway...

Several years later had a much better experience - as did my wife - at a Nancy Lopez "Play Happy" multi-day school. In fact we've been back for a second one, at Keystone CO where she has a home.

She and her two teaching pros are really wonderful, and they easily adapt to players of all skill levels while making sure each person got plenty of individual attention. Cannot recommend it enough if someone wanted to bring their significant other along!

Great write up. The tour striker academy was all about impact. Hands ahead , divot after the ball. Not so much about being mega shallow or wide open at impact. But more about improving the overall strike and ball flight. And this was from chipping to full shots. 
 

in 3 days I must have hit a thousand hip high low flying iron shots. Was a simple concept. But something that will take time. Was happy that he got away from the modern teachings I see on YouTube of massive pivots and club shallowing. That stuff is so over done imho 

[NC Golfer]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:01 PM, Golf2Much said:

I attended a Bird Golf Academy school for three days in Boca Raton, Florida about a year and a half ago.  I went with a friend, and we were the only two our instructor, three-time major winner Mary Mills.  My friend had several things he wanted to work on.   I had one primary question I wanted answered:  can I ever get any better?  I'm 66 with a new left knee, a broken neck and more surgically repaired joint that I care to mention.  After going over some introductory comments, we headed to the range.  We started with drivers.  Mary took us both individually, assessed our swings and made some drills suggestions.  Then she had us hit a bunch of balls while watching and recording on her iPad.  When we rested, she'd pull out the iPad, showed us our swings against up other golfers' swings and made recommendations.  About two hours in, she pulled me aside and answered my burning question.  No, your inflexibility will physically prevent you from making certain moves necessary to see significant improvement.  She added that nominal improvements through clubs, shafts were likely possible.  After hearing that, I was actually relieved!  We each would work on specific drills during the morning, each lunch and then head out to the course.  Mary would follow us as we played the first nine all the time filming us and making recommendations.  At the turn, she would leave and my friend I would play the back nine.  Luckily, our hotel had happy hour and a warm hot tub to help with our sore muscles!

This continued for two more days.  The second day we worked on irons and the third day we worked on bunkers, pitching and chipping.  Each day finished with playing 18 holes which was a challenge give the number of balls we hit in the morning.  After the three days we got a link to download all the videos Mary took plus other players' swing videos to highlight where our issues might be.  

Was it worth it?  For me, yes.  I found out that "I am who I am" and that incremental improvements are the best I can hope for.  I'm OK with that (and truthfully, I sort of expected that outcome).  I got to practice and play at a great course.  I helped a friend experience a lifelong dream of attending a sports camp.  I also got some great feedback on my better than average short game. 

My friend returned and dropped his handicap four strokes over the next several months (15 to 11 and down to 10 for a few weeks).  A part of that several months was taking the time to practice the things we learned.   Our home course really doesn't have a decent practice area, so we agreed to meet early each Thursday morning and we'd walk four of five holes in our back nine to hit shots together to reinforce what we learned.  That definitely helped to internalize what we learned.  

Thanks, for sharing. It must have been great to have your physical limitations confirmed as a barrier. So often, (especially for me as a life long high handicapper and sr golfer), we believe that there must be something I am not figuring out or I didn't take enough lessons. But, then the real reason is our physical limitations. It's an area that most pros don't think about. With a bad back, knee, wrists, shoulder, I struggle to make a decent back turn. My new plan is to say, it's not my fault and just swing my own swing and get the short game in good order like you. The Boca area is beautiful. Golf and food heaven! 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by NC Golfer

[caryncgolfer]

What perplexes me about golf schools is the math.  I just can’t help myself but to break down what the teacher gets per student, per hour etc.

and let’s just say whoa.  Andrew Rice taking it to the bank!  

But people really seem to enjoy the format!

that being said I like 1 on 1.  Each lesson I found I had 3-4 pages of notes on exactly what was tailored to my body type, swing type and style.  The most the instructor was interrupted was to cater to a member about their swing, for 1-2 minutes. 1 on 1 is all about getting you better.  And it’s a lot more affordable.  Win win IMO

[RickyBobby_PR]

36 minutes ago, caryncgolfer said:

What perplexes me about golf schools is the math.  I just can’t help myself but to break down what the teacher gets per student, per hour etc.

and let’s just say whoa.  Andrew Rice taking it to the bank!  

You are paying for his other coaches that are there but also paying for his time there and for all the time he has spent over his career learning his craft and getting better at it. You are also paying for his name.

Look at how much he charges for a lesson. 
 

[MacTourney]

51 minutes ago, caryncgolfer said:

What perplexes me about golf schools is the math.  

But people really seem to enjoy the format!

Knew a pro who did a beginning kids group of 12 for one hour each week for 4 weeks @ $100.00 per student.    Maybe not so obvious to their parents, each hour a student in the group received 5 minutes of 1:1 personalized attention and spent the rest of the hour finishing their bucket.

So for  4 one-hour lessons, spanning 4 weeks, each participant received 20 minutes of 1:1 instruction for $100.00, or the equivalent of $300 per hour for individual instruction- not a bad gig if you can get it.  

Parents loved it, an hour to shop each week while young acquiring minds took lessons under a supervised sitter-pro for the small sum of 25 bucks per week. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by MacTourney

[cksurfdude]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:04 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

You are paying for his other coaches that are there but also paying for his time there and for all the time he has spent over his career learning his craft and getting better at it. You are also paying for his name.

Look at how much he charges for a lesson. 

Also paying for the use of the facility where the school is being held .. even if it's just range balls the course charges something..!

[caryncgolfer]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:04 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

You are paying for his other coaches that are there but also paying for his time there and for all the time he has spent over his career learning his craft and getting better at it. You are also paying for his name.

Look at how much he charges for a lesson. 
 

$250 an hour to work on my game directly with say Andrew Rice for example.  Which tbh I’m not even sure an hour with a random elite coach helps that much.  As you prob want to build a bit of a repoire with the teacher.  But say you wanted him to have a look.

versus his golf school which comes out to him making almost $750 an hour for 4 students.

That just makes me say WOW

its a nice retirement plan you are helping these guys fund.

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 hours ago, caryncgolfer said:

$250 an hour to work on my game directly with say Andrew Rice for example.  Which tbh I’m not even sure an hour with a random elite coach helps that much.  As you prob want to build a bit of a repoire with the teacher.  But say you wanted him to have a look.

Any single lesson with any instructor will yield some benefit. The student still has to put in the effort to follow the drills and do the work the instructor gives them from the lesson. Most amateurs especially mid to high hdcps will need more than one lesson with May coach. Also the success depends on how well the instructor can communicate his/her thoughts to the student in a way the student understands and can retain the information. But until you try a lesson with a coach you won’t know if it’s worth it or not, or it it’s worth additional follow on lessons.

 

11 hours ago, caryncgolfer said:

versus his golf school which comes out to him making almost $750 an hour for 4 students.

That just makes me say WOW

its a nice retirement plan you are helping these guys fund.

Again you keep choosing to look over the value one gets from the golf school in an effort to take a shot a price that you appear isn’t something you are willing to pay. We will stay with Andrew as the example. For $2200 you get 18 hours of instruction which includes both full swing and short game. Most amateurs are going to improve just from the short game learning by itself. You get a practice plan which is beneficial because now you leave with something concrete to work on and how to work on it, video summaries every day, lunch plus one free follow up email which is great because you get to make sure your understanding of what you are doing is correct.

The price very reasonable for what one is receiving from an instructor who is highly talented and successful. His years of honing his skill, time and money spent learning his craft and his name are why he can charge what he charges. Plus he has to pay for his assistants time at the school so it’s not all going to him.

[caryncgolfer]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:40 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Any single lesson with any instructor will yield some benefit. The student still has to put in the effort to follow the drills and do the work the instructor gives them from the lesson. Most amateurs especially mid to high hdcps will need more than one lesson with May coach. Also the success depends on how well the instructor can communicate his/her thoughts to the student in a way the student understands and can retain the information. But until you try a lesson with a coach you won’t know if it’s worth it or not, or it it’s worth additional follow on lessons.

 

Again you keep choosing to look over the value one gets from the golf school in an effort to take a shot a price that you appear isn’t something you are willing to pay. We will stay with Andrew as the example. For $2200 you get 18 hours of instruction which includes both full swing and short game. Most amateurs are going to improve just from the short game learning by itself. You get a practice plan which is beneficial because now you leave with something concrete to work on and how to work on it, video summaries every day, lunch plus one free follow up email which is great because you get to make sure your understanding of what you are doing is correct.

The price very reasonable for what one is receiving from an instructor who is highly talented and successful. His years of honing his skill, time and money spent learning his craft and his name are why he can charge what he charges. Plus he has to pay for his assistants time at the school so it’s not all going to him.

I think I would rather do the nine 1 on 1 lessons, all things being equal.  I totally agree that he’s a fantastic teacher and his YouTube’s are very helpful.  

[Goober]

I got back a few weeks ago from another tour striker academy in Gilbert Az. This one I felt more confident in than my last visit. I really was impressed how Mr Chuck and his assistants added to my instructions from what I learned last time. And at the same time they were focusing on a multitude of other swing issues from the other participants. Last clinic was working on low point control for me. This one was taking it a step further and working on maintaining low point while adding the body not the hands to advance the ball. My issue was always a hands style golfer over body. So a feeling of the left hip pocket open and right foot up before I get my hands to the ball is very difficult 

  But I also listened in on another student who had the opposite problem. He was major body and no hands. He came to the academy hitting almost wide open face shanks. One after another. Martin picked his swing apart right after a few swings. And had him hitting a right to left shot the last day consistently. That was an impressive transformation and he was like a kid on Christmas Day. He showed him a swing with literally a no body rotation feel. And more hands and physically turning the club over at impact. That is a sign of a good teacher and a great academy. When places like this can fix amateur swings. That is when I listen. I’m more into guys who can fix us than professionals on tv. As amateurs we have way more unique issues than any tour player would ever have. I can’t wait to go my third time in the fall. I have plenty to work on now for sure 

 

 

[bailliesoriano]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:01 PM, Golf2Much said:

I attended a Bird Golf Academy school for three days in Boca Raton, Florida about a year and a half ago.  I went with a friend, and we were the only two our instructor, three-time major winner Mary Mills.  My friend had several things he wanted to work on.   I had one primary question I wanted answered:  can I ever get any better?  I'm 66 with a new left knee, a broken neck and more surgically repaired joint that I care to mention.  After going over some introductory comments, we headed to the range.  We started with drivers.  Mary took us both individually, assessed our swings and made some drills suggestions.  Then she had us hit a bunch of balls while watching and recording on her iPad.  When we rested, she'd pull out the iPad, showed us our swings against up other golfers' swings and made recommendations.  About two hours in, she pulled me aside and answered my burning question.  No, your inflexibility will physically prevent you from making certain moves necessary to see significant improvement.  She added that nominal improvements through clubs, shafts were likely possible.  After hearing that, I was actually relieved!  We each would work on specific drills during the morning, each lunch and then head out to the course.  Mary would follow us as we played the first nine all the time filming us and making recommendations.  At the turn, she would leave and my friend I would play the back nine.  Luckily, our hotel had happy hour and a warm hot tub to help with our sore muscles!

This continued for two more days.  The second day we worked on irons and the third day we worked on bunkers, pitching and chipping.  Each day finished with playing 18 holes which was a challenge give the number of balls we hit in the morning.  After the three days we got a link to download all the videos Mary took plus other players' swing videos to highlight where our issues might be.  

Was it worth it?  For me, yes.  I found out that "I am who I am" and that incremental improvements are the best I can hope for.  I'm OK with that (and truthfully, I sort of expected that outcome).  I got to practice and play at a great course.  I helped a friend experience a lifelong dream of attending a sports camp.  I also got some great feedback on my better than average short game. 

My friend returned and dropped his handicap four strokes over the next several months (15 to 11 and down to 10 for a few weeks).  A part of that several months was taking the time to practice the things we learned.   Our home course really doesn't have a decent practice area, so we agreed to meet early each Thursday morning and we'd walk four of five holes in our back nine to hit shots together to reinforce what we learned.   That definitely helped to internalize what we learned.  

You have a very rich and interesting history, I am a beginner to golf, before I thought this game boring, but now I learn so many interesting things that it made me interesting to participate and I am attracted by the trips where players fly to play in different places. By the way, besides this, being a student, I don't know how to combine all of this, I'm thinking to use https://edubirdie.com/speech-writing-service to manage, to do my homework and besides this to take care of my favorite sport golf. Has anyone ever used this? Good luck to you!

Edited March 30, 2023 by bailliesoriano