Fitting Question - Where Would You Start?

[jwlong410]

About 2.5 years ago I went and got fitted for new irons as I had been playing the same ones for quite some time (see thread on that purchase below). At the time I was a 16ish handicap and the clubs served me well as I significantly upped my play:

However, since then there have been some significant changes to my game and I ultimately decided to sell my set. Briefly, here are the key factors impacting the decision:
1. I lost my 8-iron and ended up replacing it with a P770 (instead of finding a P760) because buying a used P760 & reshafting it would've been 2x as expensive as a new 770.

2. My handicap has come down dramatically (16ish -> 8.4) and I'm generally playing much better golf.

3, I bought an old set of Nike blades to hit around, so I had a set to use after getting rid of my Taylormades.

The last one is the key here. I was custom-fitted for my combo set (extra 1" long, specific shaft setup, larger grips, lofts adjusted, etc. etc.) but I found my stock Nike Vapor Pros with standard S300s (stock length) playing and feeling better than the more forgiving setup. I'm 6'5" with large hands but the all stock setup on the very not forgiving blades is performing better than the irons custom-fit to me.

So here's the conundrum - if I was interested in potentially buying new irons (Vapor Pros came out in 2015!) where would you start? What models would be the ones you'd be most eager to hit? And would your default assumption be that something closer to stock might be right or something closer to what I was originally fit for?

 

Obligatory photo of the Nike blades included because they are chef's kiss gorgeous.

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, jwlong410 said:

 

So here's the conundrum - if I was interested in potentially buying new irons (Vapor Pros came out in 2015!) where would you start? What models would be the ones you'd be most eager to hit? And would your default assumption be that something closer to stock might be right or something closer to what I was originally fit for?

 

The first thing  I would do is identify what  you are hoping to achieve with new irons.  From there you can go get fit or go to stores append hit everything you can get you hands on.  Not to be to critical, but you say you hit the Nike’s better than the fitter irons but provide no supporting evidence that that is the case.  It could also be that you adapted your swing to the Nike’s and they may not actually be a good fit.  The mind and body do what is necessary to hit the golf ball and you have learned a swing that is functional.   No one can answer what configuration is best for you unless we can see some launch monitor data or are watching you hit balls.  As for what clubs to recommend, what is your budget?   How receptive are you to Game improvement type clubs or do you simply want muscle back forged blades?  I’d personally lean toward GI to provide the most forgiveness you can get.  Unfortunately more questions than answers at this point.  

[jwlong410]

9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The first thing  I would do is identify what  you are hoping to achieve with new irons.  From there you can go get fit or go to stores append hit everything you can get you hands on.  Not to be to critical, but you say you hit the Nike’s better than the fitter irons but provide no supporting evidence that that is the case.  It could also be that you adapted your swing to the Nike’s and they may not actually be a good fit.  The mind and body do what is necessary to hit the golf ball and you have learned a swing that is functional.   No one can answer what configuration is best for you unless we can see some launch monitor data or are watching you hit balls.  As for what clubs to recommend, what is your budget?   How receptive are you to Game improvement type clubs or do you simply want muscle back forged blades?  I’d personally lean toward GI to provide the most forgiveness you can get.  Unfortunately more questions than answers at this point.  

Great questions! I have so many htoughts in my head but left a bunch out of this post. Adding some thoughts here below:

What  you are hoping to achieve with new irons?
I think for me it's really 2 things. Distance consistency (vs. hitting it as far as possible. With my P790 7-iron I was hitting it 175 on average - I don't need to hit a 7-iron that far) AND some more forgiveness than the Nike blades. Basically I feel like a happy medium between the blades and the Player's Distance irons.

You say you hit the Nike’s better than the fitter irons but provide no supporting evidence that that is the case.

Totally fair. I don't have launch monitor data but I do use Arccos and my SG: Approach has improved with the blades. That said, there is some co-mingling of swing changes in there for sure, but in general the numbers are better by a not insignificant margin.

As for what clubs to recommend, what is your budget?

Don't want budget to be a significant driver of this. I have some shop credit to offset the purchase depending on price :).

How receptive are you to Game improvement type clubs or do you simply want muscle back forged blades?

I am open to anything. I generally prefer (from a looks/feel) perspective something smaller with less offset and forged - but I'm not adamant that it MUST be that. My concern re: GI or even Player's Distance irons is two-fold. First the Player's Distance irons I've owned have felt clicky & hot to me at times (e.g., a 7-iron that goes 195 instead of 175). Second, I worry about the stronger lofts and the impact on spin & playability (i.e., will I be able to hold greens, etc. etc.).

 

I recognize without all the data it could be a tough spot to start from - just curious for where other's heads would be if they were in my position. I do plan on getting fitted and talking through this with my fitter, but wanted to see what everyone thought...

[cnosil]

19 minutes ago, jwlong410 said:

Great questions! I have so many htoughts in my head but left a bunch out of this post. Adding some thoughts here below:

What  you are hoping to achieve with new irons?
I think for me it's really 2 things. Distance consistency (vs. hitting it as far as possible. With my P790 7-iron I was hitting it 175 on average - I don't need to hit a 7-iron that far) AND some more forgiveness than the Nike blades. Basically I feel like a happy medium between the blades and the Player's Distance irons.

You say you hit the Nike’s better than the fitter irons but provide no supporting evidence that that is the case.

Totally fair. I don't have launch monitor data but I do use Arccos and my SG: Approach has improved with the blades. That said, there is some co-mingling of swing changes in there for sure, but in general the numbers are better by a not insignificant margin.

As for what clubs to recommend, what is your budget?

Don't want budget to be a significant driver of this. I have some shop credit to offset the purchase depending on price :).

How receptive are you to Game improvement type clubs or do you simply want muscle back forged blades?

I am open to anything. I generally prefer (from a looks/feel) perspective something smaller with less offset and forged - but I'm not adamant that it MUST be that. My concern re: GI or even Player's Distance irons is two-fold. First the Player's Distance irons I've owned have felt clicky & hot to me at times (e.g., a 7-iron that goes 195 instead of 175). Second, I worry about the stronger lofts and the impact on spin & playability (i.e., will I be able to hold greens, etc. etc.).

 

I recognize without all the data it could be a tough spot to start from - just curious for where other's heads would be if they were in my position. I do plan on getting fitted and talking through this with my fitter, but wanted to see what everyone thought...

Based on your responses I'd focus on players category:

• Titleist T100, T100S, 620 CB
• Cobra Forged Tec
• Wilson Staff CB (I always love these when I hit them)
• Mizuno 223
• etc.

 

[THEZIPR23]

Make sure to add the ZX7's to your list. Most underrated iron out there. 

[GolfSpy SAM]

Loving this thread - great questions/answers happening.  

  I imagine the clubs @cnosil recommended are an excellent category for you to end up in - forged, forgiving (compared to a flat-out blade), beautiful, etc.  I'm super curious where you end up, as I'm on a similar road (slightly higher handi at 11.7, but it's on a continual march downwards since getting fitted into my GI in early 2020), and am headed to a fitter on Jan 6, and am hoping to spend most of my time in the irons category, as there seem to be so many great options to choose from (and I'm loving my driver currently).  My ultimate goal is consistency over distance (I'm in a similar boat - 7-irons currently about 175, but I'd go back to my Ping Eye 2 distance (150) if I could gain better dispersion/distance control).  I'm curious, @cnosil if you'd recommend the 923 Pro, or if that's too GI (assuming the 923 forged would be a better fit here, even if it's yet-to-be-released)? I plan on hitting some Mizuno, is why I'm asking.  I imagine with where my particular swing is at, the T200 might be a better fit, Titleist-wise - that might be a tad "clicky" compared to the T100s, though, for the OP.  

Let us know if you decide, or what you hit when you get into a fitting!

[chisag]

1 hour ago, jwlong410 said:

My concern re: GI or even Player's Distance irons is two-fold.

 

... Irons mentioned by others are in the Players Iron category which should be a good fit for you in-between GI and Players Distance irons. I would add the MIM Tours, PXG 0311T's, P7MC and Ping i230 to the irons mentioned by cnosil (not forged tecs) and zipr. Just so many really good Players Irons out there right now and personal preference will most likely be the deciding factor. 

... I will add an anecdotal MB experience. Played my Z Forged MB's a few weeks ago and shot a 70 when I had been struggling. I didn't really miss a shot that day other than a slight miss that is hard to quantify, just saying it was a rare day and every shot wasn't dead solid perfect. That said the other 99% of the rounds I have played with my Z Forged there were several shots that cost me and why I always use Players irons that give me the best of both worlds. I think many have a really good day with MB's and think that is their "norm" which is as true as their worst day with their MB's being a "norm". We all miss the center some days a little and some days a lot and exactly why so many on the PGA and virtually all of the great ball strikers on the LPGA use Players Irons and not MB's (with 2 or 3 exceptions). But if Lydia Ko, Nelly Korda and Jin Young Ko who hit 63 greens consecutively in competition don't play MB's, 99.9% of AM's certainly shouldn't be playing them. Unless like BigStu and others that play vintage equipment or just love playing MB's if scoring isn't a concern. 

[funkyjudge]

I keep seeing MIM; what exactly is or are MIM?

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I keep seeing MIM; what exactly is or are MIM?

Metal Injection Molding (MIM) Technology - to deliver a softer feel that rivals that of a traditional forging. This revolutionary process allows us to produce the most precise iron shape more efficiently, and with minimal post-process polishing required.

 

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

  I'm curious, @cnosil if you'd recommend the 923 Pro

I personally am not a huge Mizuno fan.  Nice irons but near the top of my personal must try list.   

[funkyjudge]

3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Metal Injection Molding (MIM) Technology - to deliver a softer feel that rivals that of a traditional forging. This revolutionary process allows us to produce the most precise iron shape more efficiently, and with minimal post-process polishing required.

 

Thank you! Since it is Sam who is a fan of MIM irons, I assume that they come from Cobra. From what you describe, it sounds like something Cleveland Golf did with an obscure forged players cavity iron model or two about 5-25 years ago.

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

I imagine the clubs @cnosil recommended are an excellent category for you to end up in - forged, forgiving (compared to a flat-out blade), beautiful, etc.  I'm super curious where you end up, as I'm on a similar road (slightly higher handi at 11.7, but it's on a continual march downwards since getting fitted into my GI in early 2020), and am headed to a fitter on Jan 6, and am hoping to spend most of my time in the irons category, as there seem to be so many great options to choose from (and I'm loving my driver currently).  My ultimate goal is consistency over distance (I'm in a similar boat - 7-irons currently about 175, but I'd go back to my Ping Eye 2 distance (150) if I could gain better dispersion/distance control). I plan on hitting some Mizuno, is why I'm asking.  I imagine with where my particular swing is at, the T200 might be a better fit, Titleist-wise - that might be a tad "clicky" compared to the T100s, though, for the OP.  

 

... I did this quite a few years ago and highly recommend others do it as well. But chart a round with irons played on every hole and it will be a real eye opener. Most of us just don't use our irons anywhere near as much as we think and since many are $1200 these days it will be a useful exercise. I sometimes only use an iron 2 times on the front 9!! On my home course:

If I hit a big drive on #1 I will play a 5/6 iron but usually a utility or hybrid.
2nd is a par 5 so I am either near the green or using a wedge from 100yds.
Depending on wind either a 9/8 or 7 on 3.
4th hole is is the #1 handicap and almost always a utility/hybrid but into the wind a 5 wood.
5th is a short par 5 and I am either on or around the green in 2. 
6th is a mid length par 4 and depending on wind can be an 8/9 but usually a PW. 
7th is a par 3 and calls for a 7/6/5 iron
8th is a drivable par 4 over water so usually hybrid and LW.
9 is another long par 4 and anywhere from a 4/5/6 or utility/hybrid. 

... That is 2-5 iron max on the front 9. If you would have asked me before charting I would have said maybe 7 times? 5-7 times is the max I use irons on the back 9. So a low of 7 times total and a high of 12 times and usually somewhere in the middle. 9-10 times a round I use my irons and of course some days several irons are never touched. Driver, 5 wood, hybrid, 46/50/58 are used much more. Food for thought ... of course rarely do I look at wedges, hybrids, fairway woods when browsing in a golf store but always look at the irons! 
 

[chisag]

20 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I keep seeing MIM; what exactly is or are MIM?

 

... Well since you asked!  

 

 

[GolfSpy SAM]

39 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I did this quite a few years ago and highly recommend others do it as well. But chart a round with irons played on every hole and it will be a real eye opener. Most of us just don't use our irons anywhere near as much as we think and since many are $1200 these days it will be a useful exercise. I sometimes only use an iron 2 times on the front 9!! On my home course:

If I hit a big drive on #1 I will play a 5/6 iron but usually a utility or hybrid.
2nd is a par 5 so I am either near the green or using a wedge from 100yds.
Depending on wind either a 9/8 or 7 on 3.
4th hole is is the #1 handicap and almost always a utility/hybrid but into the wind a 5 wood.
5th is a short par 5 and I am either on or around the green in 2. 
6th is a mid length par 4 and depending on wind can be an 8/9 but usually a PW. 
7th is a par 3 and calls for a 7/6/5 iron
8th is a drivable par 4 over water so usually hybrid and LW.
9 is another long par 4 and anywhere from a 4/5/6 or utility/hybrid. 

... That is 2-5 iron max on the front 9. If you would have asked me before charting I would have said maybe 7 times? 5-7 times is the max I use irons on the back 9. So a low of 7 times total and a high of 12 times and usually somewhere in the middle. 9-10 times a round I use my irons and of course some days several irons are never touched. Driver, 5 wood, hybrid, 46/50/58 are used much more. Food for thought ... of course rarely do I look at wedges, hybrids, fairway woods when browsing in a golf store but always look at the irons! 
 

Love this, and this mentality.  One of the things I'm VERY interested in doing in this fitting (as it's a "full bag fit"), is to gap as much as possible, especially the woods- portion of my bag.  I currently really only play with a 5/7 wood, because of ease-of-use, but I definitely feel like I've got some (a lot?) of redundancies in my bag (for instance, my 7-wood (23 degree) goes nearly the same as my 6-iron, which goes nearly the same as my 5-iron (so I took the 5-iron out of play).  I have no problem (ego or otherwise) playing 6-PW and then transitioning to a hybrid/fairway wood if that's going to better suit those 200-250 distances that I'm currently struggling with on Par-5s (I almost NEVER reach in two, even when hitting a good (for me, 280+) drive, which is maddening). 

I really like my wedges (just put new grips on them, and they're like new clubs...good wedges, bad grips (Kirkland)), but I know I need some fairway/hybrid help.  I figure focusing on those and irons should cover the places I most need the help.  But irons are shiny and approaches from 120-180 (so, say, PW-6/7 iron) are where I spend most days hitting in from.  I don't need a 4-iron in my bag, by any means, unless it's lofted like my current 6-iron 

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

But irons are shiny and approaches from 120-180 (so, say, PW-6/7 iron) are where I spend most days hitting in from. 

 

... I was honestly shocked when I charted my round. I have always been a big time iron HO and felt they were the cornerstone of my game. Sounds like you have a good handle on what clubs you use but you should chart a round and see how accurate you are. It just might surprise you. 

[fixyurdivot]

3 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Make sure to add the ZX7's to your list. Most underrated iron out there. 

Include the ZX5/ZX7 combo in that recommendation ^^^.  Dare I say that a good many out there should be giving combo sets a hard look - for sure if one can put pride on the shelf.

[jwlong410]

6 hours ago, cnosil said:

Based on your responses I'd focus on players category:

• Titleist T100, T100S, 620 CB
• Cobra Forged Tec
• Wilson Staff CB (I always love these when I hit them)
• Mizuno 223
• etc.

 

I really want to hit the Wilson's! I have hit the 223 a few times and it feels pretty incredible. These all make sense to me in terms of places to start, thanks!

 

5 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Make sure to add the ZX7's to your list. Most underrated iron out there. 

The one interesting thing about the Vapor Pros is they have a super thin sole, which it turns out, I really like. The turf interaction is probably a big draw for me. I'd say my miss is slightly fat so something that gets in/out of the turf well helps me a lot. Sounds like the Srixon irons are on the thinner side of the spectrum so definitely have my attention as well.

 

4 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Loving this thread - great questions/answers happening.  

.....

Let us know if you decide, or what you hit when you get into a fitting!

I will! I'm thinking I'm going to hold off until the JPX 923s are available as the JPX Tours are in some ways a natural evolution from the Nikes (e.g., that's the transition Koepka made).

 

4 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Irons mentioned by others are in the Players Iron category which should be a good fit for you in-between GI and Players Distance irons. I would add the MIM Tours, PXG 0311T's, P7MC and Ping i230 to the irons mentioned by cnosil (not forged tecs) and zipr. Just so many really good Players Irons out there right now and personal preference will most likely be the deciding factor. 

... I will add an anecdotal MB experience. Played my Z Forged MB's a few weeks ago and shot a 70 when I had been struggling. I didn't really miss a shot that day other than a slight miss that is hard to quantify, just saying it was a rare day and every shot wasn't dead solid perfect. That said the other 99% of the rounds I have played with my Z Forged there were several shots that cost me and why I always use Players irons that give me the best of both worlds. I think many have a really good day with MB's and think that is their "norm" which is as true as their worst day with their MB's being a "norm". We all miss the center some days a little and some days a lot and exactly why so many on the PGA and virtually all of the great ball strikers on the LPGA use Players Irons and not MB's (with 2 or 3 exceptions). But if Lydia Ko, Nelly Korda and Jin Young Ko who hit 63 greens consecutively in competition don't play MB's, 99.9% of AM's certainly shouldn't be playing them. Unless like BigStu and others that play vintage equipment or just love playing MB's if scoring isn't a concern. 

Yes to all of this. I do worry a little about the P7MC's being a little too blade-like and not a big enough difference from the Nikes to be worth making the investment, but a fitting will answer that question. To your point about the MBs - I 100% agree. I tell me buddy all the time that I know I'm not good enough to be playing blades, but I also think the negatives of the blades are less penal to my game as it exists today than the P790s were (for whatever reason).

 

4 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I did this quite a few years ago and highly recommend others do it as well. But chart a round with irons played on every hole and it will be a real eye opener. Most of us just don't use our irons anywhere near as much as we think and since many are $1200 these days it will be a useful exercise. I sometimes only use an iron 2 times on the front 9!! On my home course:
 

Yes! Arccos is great for this as well. Really puts it into perspective. I tend to only practice with 8 - Wedges and then sometimes struggle on Par 3 tee shots though heh.

 

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Include the ZX5/ZX7 combo in that recommendation ^^^.  Dare I say that a good many out there should be giving combo sets a hard look - for sure if one can put pride on the shelf.

I like the idea of a combo set. I explicitly suggested a combo set to my fitter when I bought the TaylorMades as outlined in that initial post. I still like the idea of it, but I think I'd do it differently. Last time I split my clubs at the 7/8 which, IMO is too much in the middle. I think this time I'd probably split it around the 5/6 maybe. Obviously a fitting would tell you the best place, but getting a full set fit is not easy. So if you only hit 7-irons, or other irons with tape, how do you know where to best split? Hard to do really well IMO.

My thought is - if there's a clear gap where spin and/or peak height becomes inconsistent, that's a good place to start looking at comboing. So I'll consider it. After my nightmare of losing a club right at the split though, I am a bit wary. There's definitely some benefit in consistency of feel. Maybe I was just dumb to split 760s/790s because the feel between those two sets was so different. I don't know. I have all the thoughts.

[jwlong410]

The other challenge I had with my P700s was the club gapping. So here's an example, my average distances per Arccos...

After messing with lengths & lofts, but without hitting the full set in a fitting I ended up with some big & weird gaps. Having a 20-yard gap between your 7/8 is a problem IMO. Perhaps one that could get addressed with tweaking some lofts, but I think it's also driven by the model change and the resulting lack or presence of speedfoam, etc. I actually thought about keeping the 4-iron as a driving iron like tool and just getting a 5-PW in my next iron set. I don't know.

I personally feel like this is the potential trap of trying to build a combo set where you're just not sure where everything is going to line up once you play with them. I'm sure this could happen if you just bought a full set of irons, but I think the loft/lie/model combinations may make it more likely.

[BombAndGouge]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:35 PM, jwlong410 said:

Great questions! I have so many htoughts in my head but left a bunch out of this post. Adding some thoughts here below:

What  you are hoping to achieve with new irons?
I think for me it's really 2 things. Distance consistency (vs. hitting it as far as possible. With my P790 7-iron I was hitting it 175 on average - I don't need to hit a 7-iron that far) AND some more forgiveness than the Nike blades. Basically I feel like a happy medium between the blades and the Player's Distance irons.

You say you hit the Nike’s better than the fitter irons but provide no supporting evidence that that is the case.

Totally fair. I don't have launch monitor data but I do use Arccos and my SG: Approach has improved with the blades. That said, there is some co-mingling of swing changes in there for sure, but in general the numbers are better by a not insignificant margin.

As for what clubs to recommend, what is your budget?

Don't want budget to be a significant driver of this. I have some shop credit to offset the purchase depending on price :).

How receptive are you to Game improvement type clubs or do you simply want muscle back forged blades?

I am open to anything. I generally prefer (from a looks/feel) perspective something smaller with less offset and forged - but I'm not adamant that it MUST be that. My concern re: GI or even Player's Distance irons is two-fold. First the Player's Distance irons I've owned have felt clicky & hot to me at times (e.g., a 7-iron that goes 195 instead of 175). Second, I worry about the stronger lofts and the impact on spin & playability (i.e., will I be able to hold greens, etc. etc.).

 

I recognize without all the data it could be a tough spot to start from - just curious for where other's heads would be if they were in my position. I do plan on getting fitted and talking through this with my fitter, but wanted to see what everyone thought...

I'd worry more about lofts compared to numbers. Lot of brands jack the shorter irons up. I agree you don't need 175-195 for the 7. Likely a players iron would be best to dial in more consistent distance. Maybe take a look at Sub70s 659MBs or CBs. 

If you really want to get fit, it wouldn't be a bad idea because now you are questioning length instead of just heads. Definitely want to mess around with length, shaft flex, and try t100, Mizuno Pro 223, and maybe srixon Zx7.

[BombAndGouge]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:29 PM, jwlong410 said:

The other challenge I had with my P700s was the club gapping. So here's an example, my average distances per Arccos...

After messing with lengths & lofts, but without hitting the full set in a fitting I ended up with some big & weird gaps. Having a 20-yard gap between your 7/8 is a problem IMO. Perhaps one that could get addressed with tweaking some lofts, but I think it's also driven by the model change and the resulting lack or presence of speedfoam, etc. I actually thought about keeping the 4-iron as a driving iron like tool and just getting a 5-PW in my next iron set. I don't know.

I personally feel like this is the potential trap of trying to build a combo set where you're just not sure where everything is going to line up once you play with them. I'm sure this could happen if you just bought a full set of irons, but I think the loft/lie/model combinations may make it more likely.

I like your idea of keeping the 4 iron as a driving style iron, especially in an easier to hit and launch head compared to blades. I don't love the gap between the 5wood and 4 iron though. Might want to put the 5 wood down a degree in loft to try to get more out of it.

 

6/7 iron gap similar. Too close. Getting more traditional lofted set will help. Might drop 5 wood and get an additional wedge to help with shorter, scoring distances (maybe go 50-54-58 or 50-54-50 or 50-56-60)

[AntLockyer]

I got fitted in 2022 at Precision Golf. It was a very interesting experience and taught me a bunch of stuff about 'forgiveness'.

I was playing off 14, I'm 48 years old and was playing some old Mizuno MP60s. I'd tried other clubs and had found some stuff that worked for me, in particular I liked a heavy shaft but a light swing weight. The fitter tried a couple of clubs and very quickly homed in on what my tendencies and misses looked like. At that point all he handed me was narrow soled clubs and without paying much attention to what I had in my hand he knew based on the trackman and my feelings very quickly if something was for me or not. So he fitted a 14 handicapper into a MB/CB combo set, I paid a bunch of money, my friends thought I was crazy and 3 months later I was off 8.

The point of it is that my miss wasn't heel to toe, if I did miss the middle it was a little to the heel side and really only a tiny amount. Something about my move meant that wide soles didn't work. I launch it pretty low and don't spin it much so traditional lofts were the order of the day with the extra spin in the MB for the 7 and up and higher launch in the CB for the rest. It took a brave and experienced fitter to do that.

They've done a bunch of live fitting stuff on their Youtube channel and I'm hooked. It amazes me how different each players requirements are. 

 

[wely324]

So many great options out there, but why not just keep playing with the Nike blades. If you are improving and having fun why change the formula. I moved from one piece cb/blades to tungsten weighted players iron and approach play went down hill. More forgiveness on misfits that go further left or right seemed to put me in worse situations than a mishit with a blade that comes up short of the green. Also I find that blades/cb’s have a tighter yardage gapping usually which I feel plays into the best interest of most players. The players irons today with stronger lofts and hotter faces increases yardage gapping to provide the proper yardage in the longer irons. But it will also make you less accurate distance wise in the short irons. 

[AzRoger]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:29 PM, jwlong410 said:

The other challenge I had with my P700s was the club gapping. So here's an example, my average distances per Arccos...

Some of those gaps don't make sense if the lofts are correct. I tried using Arccos when Ping gave them out for free but it didn't work out for me, too much work to edit shots and didn't feel the data was very accurate. I think you would be much better off figuring out your actual gaps using Trackman or other launch monitor device, and focus on the scoring irons, maybe 8i thru wedges. Most of us aren't accurate or consistent enough with the longer clubs to be concerned with the exact yardages for those clubs

[chisag]

4 hours ago, wely324 said:

So many great options out there, but why not just keep playing with the Nike blades. If you are improving and having fun why change the formula. I moved from one piece cb/blades to tungsten weighted players iron and approach play went down hill. More forgiveness on misfits that go further left or right seemed to put me in worse situations than a mishit with a blade that comes up short of the green. Also I find that blades/cb’s have a tighter yardage gapping usually which I feel plays into the best interest of most players. The players irons today with stronger lofts and hotter faces increases yardage gapping to provide the proper yardage in the longer irons. But it will also make you less accurate distance wise in the short irons. 

 

... I see posts like this on WRX all the time. And while I do not doubt your personal experience, it just doesn't necessarily apply to others. Most Am's have distances with their irons much more in line with the LPGA and other than a few (I can think of 2) none of those truly great ball strikers use MB's and many even use GI's because their ego doesn't enter into it and their livelihood depends on shooting their lowest scores. But the majority play some form of a Players Iron. You don't have to be a great ball striker but even just good ball striker will not see much dispersion difference between irons. Yes, some will produce less distance loss on a slight miss hit so it is certainly possible to come up short right with a MB when a PI will be hair longer right so maybe in the bunker or rough but they won't fly the green. 

... If players distance iron fit you, you won't hit a flier from a good lie anymore than you would with a MB. The only negative is many have 5* gapping. Obviously you can be more precise with 4 irons covering 16* than 3 irons covering 15* which causes some in-between yardages or as you said "tighter yardage gapping". But most that benefit from PDI's can use the extra length and additional forgiveness.

... Your shots can be more dependent on your swing and contact than what type of iron you are using.  It is always a question of how bad are your average miss hits and to some degree how bad are your worst mis hits. But like all norms there are exceptions, some just play better with certain types of irons and that of course includes MB's. I will also add while I think fitting is the best way to find which irons work for your swing, there is always the danger of standing in one spot and grooving a swing with a PI or MB 7 iron and that is just radically different than hitting that 7 iron for the first time on the 5th hole over water guarding the entire right side when you play a fade. I have always felt it would be a better fitting parameter to hit a driver to a far flag, change the target direction to another flag and hit a 100yd wedge, change direction again and hit to a 150-160 yd flag with the 7 iron. I have a feeling some that grooved a MB or more demanding PI will not have the same success when coming closer to how they actually use that iron on the course. This is obviously true for drivers as well and why some lament they were fit for a specific driver and shaft but it isn't performing as well on the course the they are facing the pressure of hitting the fairway when missing a drive at a fitting has no consequences and you can swing with a freedom you don't have on the course. Sadly most fitters don't have the time to go through intricate fitting scenarios and are fitting indoors. .  

[wely324]

21 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I see posts like this on WRX all the time. And while I do not doubt your personal experience, it just doesn't necessarily apply to others. Most Am's have distances with their irons much more in line with the LPGA and other than a few (I can think of 2) none of those truly great ball strikers use MB's and many even use GI's because ego doesn't;t enter into it and their livelihood depends on shooting their lowest scores. But the majority play some form of a Players Iron. You don't have to be a great ball striker but even just good ball striker will not see much dispersion difference between irons. Yes, some will produce less distance loss on a slight miss hit so it is certainly possible to com e up short right with a MB when a PI will be hair longer right so maybe in the bunker or rough but they won't fly the green. 

... If players distance iron fit you, you won't hit a flier from a good lie anymore than you would with a MB. The only negative is many have 5* gapping. Obviously you can be more precise with 4 irons covering 16* than 3 irons covering 15* which causes some in-between yardages or as you said "tighter yardage gapping". But most that benefit from PDI's can use the extra length and additional forgiveness.

... Your shots can be more dependent on your swing and contact than what type of iron you are using.  It is always a question of how bad are your average miss hits and to some degree how bad are your worst mis hits. But like all norms there are exceptions, some just play better with certain types of irons and that of course includes MB's. I will also add while I think fitting is the best way to find which irons work for your swing, there is always the danger of standing in one spot and grooving a swing with a PI or MB 7 iron and that is just radically different than hitting that 7 iron for the first time on the 5th hole over water guarding the entire right side when you play a fade. I have always felt it would be a better fitting parameter to hit a driver to a far flag, change the target direction to another flag and hit a 100yd wedge, change direction again and hit to a 150-160 yd flag with the 7 iron. I have a feeling some that grooved a MB or more demanding PI will not have the same success when coming closer to how they actually use that iron on the course. This is obviously true for drivers as well and why some lament they were fit for a specific driver and shaft but it isn't performing as well on the course the they are facing the pressure of hitting the fairway when missing a drive at a fitting has no consequences and you can swing with a freedom you don't have on the course. Sadly most fitters don't have the time to go through intricate fitting scenarios and are fitting indoors. .  

You see so many posts like that because it’s peoples experiences that they are sharing, some like to hit it far and others like to score, there is no one correct formula on how to play and have fun doing it. And if you think current tech custom fit clubs will make you a better player and or have more fun, there are a lot of players who will say otherwise. 

Also, if most ams spent the same amount of money on lessons as they do on equipment they would see far more improvement than would noticeable from a set of clubs.

[chisag]

7 hours ago, wely324 said:

You see so many posts like that because it’s peoples experiences that they are sharing, some like to hit it far and others like to score, there is no one correct formula on how to play and have fun doing it. And if you think current tech custom fit clubs will make you a better player and or have more fun, there are a lot of players who will say otherwise. 

Also, if most ams spent the same amount of money on lessons as they do on equipment they would see far more improvement than would noticeable from a set of clubs.

 

... When I was teaching, I had a student that insisted on playing MB's but they were too penal for his ability. But when I put a Players Iron in his hands (not even a GI) he changed his swing. At first I thought he did it in purpose, but he stuck with me for almost 2 years and it became apparent the issue was mental, not physical. He scooped with a more forgiving iron because mentally he couldn't get past the fact that he didn't need to do that and of course it resulted in worse strikes. It was an eye opener for me and we stuck with MBs. I had several other students I was able to succsesfully move away from their MB's and one low index amazing ball striker that hit his MB's extremely well and changing his irons never was a consideration. 

... So to be fair my opinion comes from my teaching days and my beef with wrx is those that insist MB's improve their ball striking and concentration which lowers their index and much worse, try to talk other mid and high index's into playing MB's for that reason. Those that play MB's because they have reasons other than shooting their lowest score are not who I am talking about. If they make you happy or increase your enjoyment, that is really all that counts isn't it? But when it comes to MB's for most players looking to shoot their lowest scores, don't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it is raining. 

[funkyjudge]

5 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... When I was teaching, I had a student that insisted on playing MB's but they were too penal for his ability. But when I put a Players Iron in his hands (not even a GI) he changed his swing. At first I thought he did it in purpose, but he stuck with me for almost 2 years and it became apparent the issue was mental, not physical. He scooped with a more forgiving iron because mentally he couldn't get past the fact that he didn't need to do that and of course it resulted in worse strikes. It was an eye opener for me and we stuck with MBs. I had several other students I was able to succsesfully move away from their MB's and one low index amazing ball striker that hit his MB's extremely well and changing his irons never was a consideration. 

... And to be fair my opinion comes from my teaching days and my beef with wrx is those that insist MB's improve their ball striking and concentration which lowers their index and much worse, try and talk other mid and high index's into playing MB's for that reason. Those that play MB's because they have reasons other than shooting their lowest score are not who I am talking about. If they make you happy or increase your enjoyment, that is really all that counts isn't it? But when it comes to MB's for most players looking to shoot their lowest scores, don't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it is raining. 

Only about 6 months after I started playing golf, I decided to play Golden Ram blades, followed by Hogan Apex “Redline” blades. By then, I was playing to a 6 handicap and those blades didn’t punish me too much. However, these days, playing to between a 14 and 15 handicap, I play “player’s cavity back” irons, and those are just fine for me!

[chisag]

15 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

Only about 6 months after I started playing golf, I decided to play Golden Ram blades, followed by Hogan Apex “Redline” blades. By then, I was playing to a 6 handicap and those blades didn’t punish me too much. However, these days, playing to between a 14 and 15 handicap, I play “player’s cavity back” irons, and those are just fine for me!

 

... My journey was a little unique. I started off with Spaulding Executives I bought used for $100 that had the widest soles known to man. Moved to tech because that made sense at the time using Tiger Sharks before getting better and going through my MB phase. TA1's, Nike Forged, 690 MB, TE ZO's, Apex 99's and MP33's. When Players Iron forged CB's became available I made a switch to 792B's in 7-3 iron and 690MB 8-pw. Liked the 762B's so much I put in the 8&9 but kept the PW. Next set was all mb's and I have played them ever since. Picked up the Z Forged because I loved the look and figured it was a good idea to have a set when I saw them new on Ebay for $499. 

... Loved the original AP2's til I hit the Amp Forged which at the time were the best combination of everything in one iron. Kinda been a Cobra iron player ever since, but still hit all the new stuff just in case...