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Mandatory tee boxes?


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Lets be clear, the title of the thread is "mandatory tee boxes", but the photo is a recommendation.  Nothing mandatory there at all.  Its one reasonable way to recommend tees, there are others that might be better, and none are perfect.  Of course, " reasonable" has nothing to do with clickbait posts on social media.

Edit to clarify, I'm pointing the clickbait finger at @dallasgolfco, not at @Noble 90 golf

Edited by DaveP043
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3 hours ago, Noble 90 golf said:

9AE2BA3B-4CED-49CA-A2D2-C4E00D6FE195.png

I feel this should be the standard!

They're assuming everyone has an accurate hcp. 

Even if they do have an accurate hcp. there are a number of things that aren't factored in: A mid handicapper playing up north on bentgrass with wide open fairways goes to play a course down south that has tight fairways lots of water and Bermuda - hmm don't think they're going to play to their hcp. That actually happened to me. I played for 10 + yrs in the scenario and came down to Florida. Playing the same yardage as up north 5800 yds, slope rating up north is 123 and here it's 109 but I'm not scoring as well . Took me several months to get use to that narly Bermuda rough, greens and tight fairways. 

On the other hand, I do think there needs to be some way of urging occasional golfers  to select the right tee box.  

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Determining which tees to play from based on handicap is about as accurate as deciding on what time you should go to bed based on your age.  One doesn't necessarily correspond to the other.  

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In my opinion…. I feel that every golfer should be playing from the forward tees until they can par that specific course. So many people where I am tee off from the back tees and can’t barely get off the tee box. So many people have zero business playing inappropriate tee boxes for their level of play. It’s slows things down tremendously and shouldn’t be allowed.

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Marginally better than average!

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9 minutes ago, Noble 90 golf said:

In my opinion…. I feel that every golfer should be playing from the forward tees until they can par that specific course. 

I don't think that is a viable option either.  

Let's start with the teal tees; where I personally doubt I would shoot even par due to short game issues.  

296 305 112 402 273 120 351 344 271 2,474   421 268 94 261 352 413 126 288 254  2,477      4,951

Based strictly on distances I am hitting driver on all the par 4s and getting close to the green.   As a result,  I can't tee off on a par 4 until the group in front of me has cleared the green due to how far I hit driver.    If I am doing this,  most players are doing this because even high handicappers can hit the ball far so the pace of play will be extremely slow and most tee boxes will be backed up.  

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We've covered this topic in other threads but I find using handicap as opposed to average drive distance to be a poor basis in deciding which tee to play. There was a course in Yuma we played that used handicap and it would have me playing length that does not match up well for me.  I've seen more use of handicap than distance, so maybe "they" know what's better, but I don't get it.

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1 hour ago, Noble 90 golf said:

In my opinion…. I feel that every golfer should be playing from the forward tees until they can par that specific course. So many people where I am tee off from the back tees and can’t barely get off the tee box. So many people have zero business playing inappropriate tee boxes for their level of play. It’s slows things down tremendously and shouldn’t be allowed.

I've heard others make this argument as well. I'll wager that a good many could play the most forward tees and still not shoot par consistently. But I get where you're coming from. 

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7 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Not to be controversial but this would not work for me. This would have me playing from the black and at my age I do not have that distance. Frankly never had it either. I would be hitting 5 woods into par 4’s on my second shot.

After a few rounds from the blacks my handicap would be going up and I would (by the chart) be moving up again. I think you have to play from where you are comfortable playing from and what gives you the most fun and scoring potential.

This is a great point, and I completely agree that golf is meant to be fun. With that in mind it should be played from tee boxes that make it the most enjoyable. I don’t think anyone will give you a hard time for being a good golfer and wanted to play a course from a shorter distance. In fact I think it would set a great example. I am the shortest hitter out of my friends and I always have to convince them to not play the tips. Normally I’m the one that’s winning these matches even when we play from back there. It frustrates me when they can’t consistently keep the ball in play from back there. With all of this in mind I think that you can always move up, but it’s more just discouraging someone from biting off more they can chew as far as course distance. Most of my friends think it’s a pride thing, and to me that’s the biggest misconception in golf.

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I get that handicaps can indicate tee boxes, but many loose strokes in different areas. For me it's mainly off the tee and there are both pros and cons to playing holes shorter..sometimes it's easier for me to play a little further back. Definitely an interesting take, however i think it is hard to blanket handicaps to tees X or Y. 

Play the tees which will allow you to enjoy the game the most.

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Maybe im reading it differently than most. As an example its not saying that if you are a 0 you have to play the black. It’s saying you need that handicap to play those but you can play form any of those tees with that handicap

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I really don't see anything wrong with this "suggestion."  The photo shows the course is part of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail and likely gets its fair share of visitors and tourists.  As a member of a tourist-based golf club, I can tell you that many of our visitors and guests who typically push the higher end of that mentioned handicap range do not do their due diligence on the course layout, rush to the first tee and automatically want to play from the tips.   On the first tee, you do not know what lies in front of you.  Unfortunately, when it presents itself, there's no going back!   Not only does it often become a frustrating experience for the player, but it also backs up the course making it unpleasant for each group behind them.  

I agree that one's handicap may not be the best metric for suggesting the correct tees.  However, I have to guess the many of those golfers incorrectly playing the back tees either don't actually know how far they hit their clubs or would "misrepresent" their actual distance to golfing friends.  

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39 minutes ago, Golf2Much said:

I agree that one's handicap may not be the best metric for suggesting the correct tees.  However, I have to guess the many of those golfers incorrectly playing the back tees either don't actually know how far they hit their clubs or would "misrepresent" their actual distance to golfing friends

I don't think there's a single best way to determine the tees someone should play.  Using handicaps is pretty common, and does have some basis in reality.  Generally speaking, better players DO hit the ball further.  Better players are more consistently in play with longer second shots.  Recommending that higher handicappers play shorter tees is pretty sound advice.  This type of posting also gives a starter a tool to encourage players to move forward a.bit, a really good thing at a popular "tourist" course.  and again, its NOT "mandatory".

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On 12/25/2022 at 7:44 AM, DaveP043 said:

I don't think there's a single best way to determine the tees someone should play. 

 

... How far/accurately you hit your tee shot should be the only qualifier. And even then that takes into consideration a reasonably repeatable swing. I have stated this so many times but most courses are designed to be played with specific clubs. Meaning an undulating shallow green with a deep front bunker is meant to be approached with a short iron or mid iron at worst. If you have to hit a hybrid or fairway wood you are playing the wrong tees for that given hole. Conversely some longer par 4's have nothing in front with a large green designed for a fairway wood to roll on. I think all courses should have one or 2 holes like this as it adds a challenge and you can use every club in the bag. But even an open front is useless if you can't reach it with a good shot using a hy/fw wood. 

... One of my playing partners is a long hitting 80 yr old. Long hitting as in 180-200 with his good drives (occasionally longer with a good drive downhill) and 160-180 with poor drives. But several holes over 400yds from the gold (senior) tees and uphill to around 220, are just past his range. I talked him into moving up to the forward tees on those holes and it has increased his enjoyment. Yes he hits lots of hybrids and fairway woods and if he played every hole from the forward tees he would enjoy it even more but one step at a time I guess. 

... At 69 I can play the tips at my home course but I won't be shooting under par and I would be hitting fairway woods on at least 5 of the par 4's. That means getting up and down more than reaching greens which would get old quick. Ideally I like a challenge with plenty of holes I can reach with a mid iron, some a short iron and some a long iron or hybrid. The day I can't reach the longer par 4's from the 2nd in tee box with a hybrid, is the day I move up a tee box. 

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9 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't think there's a single best way to determine the tees someone should play.  Using handicaps is pretty common, and does have some basis in reality.  Generally speaking, better players DO hit the ball further.  Better players are more consistently in play with longer second shots.  Recommending that higher handicappers play shorter tees is pretty sound advice.  This type of posting also gives a starter a tool to encourage players to move forward a.bit, a really good thing at a popular "tourist" course.  and again, its NOT "mandatory".

My way of determining from which tees I should be hitting is that if I have to use a hybrid for my second shot on more than two par-4 holes, I move up one set of tees.  Unfortunately, on our winter golf tour, even when the weather is not horrendously bad, there are far too many pat 4s where I cannot reach the greens in two shots, and sometimes even if I hit a 4-wood. In addition, although I can generally reach the par-5 holes in three, it’s not really fun always having to hit a 4-hybrid or a 5-iron for those third shots!

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I really don't care which tees my partners play from as long as they play fast. Play from the tips or play from the forward tees - but lets finish in 3 1/2 hours. 

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15 hours ago, chisag said:

.. How far/accurately you hit your tee shot should be the only qualifier

 

14 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

My way of determining from which tees I should be hitting is that if I have to use a hybrid for my second shot on more than two par-4 holes, I move up one set of tees.

I have no problem with the methods used by individual experienced players, as long as pace of play is being considered.  But instead of telling us how you decide for yourself, put yourself in the shows of the golf course management.  How would you advise players to choose the best set of tees?  Would you poll players on the number of fairways they hit, and how far?  Would you be asking them what club they'd use for a second shot on a typical hole?  Or going back to one of the other standards being used, ask ow far they hit their 5-iron?  Again, Handicap correlates to all of those questions, lower handicappers in general hit the ball further, and hit the ball straighter.  Consequently, I don't think its a bad idea to base suggested tees on handicap levels.  

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44 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 suggested tees on handicap levels.  

The key word is suggested. How many players outside of low and scratch golfers actually play to their handicap? 

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2 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

The key word is suggested. How many players outside of low and scratch golfers actually play to their handicap? 

Even low and scratch handicappers only "play to their handicap" about 20% of the time.  That doesn't really make the use of handicap any less viable as a "yardstick" on which to base tee recommendations.  Again, its not perfect, but there's no single criteria that IS perfect, from a course management viewpoint.

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