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Mandatory tee boxes?


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23 minutes ago, cnosil said:

While I know this has been done for many years,  society is changing the labeling for lots of things so why not for tee boxes? 

 

 

... Just common sense right? Here is my home course scorecard. While there is no designations at the front of the card just Black, Silver, Gold, Red ...  the ratings tell a different story. Every tee should be rated like the Gold with both Women 74.5 and Men 68.2 but the Silver and Black only have a rating for Men and the Red only has a rating for Women. No wonder some men won't play there. First change the colors and second put a Mens and Women rating on every tee box, other than the tips since most men shouldn't be playing there. 



1606559994_MenWomenratings.JPG.5ede9bb238eb412652de5d9c51874ee0.JPG

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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On 12/24/2022 at 6:14 PM, Noble 90 golf said:

In my opinion…. I feel that every golfer should be playing from the forward tees until they can par that specific course. So many people where I am tee off from the back tees and can’t barely get off the tee box. So many people have zero business playing inappropriate tee boxes for their level of play. It’s slows things down tremendously and shouldn’t be allowed.

100% agree. I am all for mandatory tee boxes based on handicap. All the time I see players with no business being on the back tees that still play them. Players that can't hit it more than 220 and barely hit any fairways. They slow up play and it is just disrespectful to other golfers on the course.

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On 12/26/2022 at 10:56 AM, funkyjudge said:

I completely disagree with two of the points that you suggest to be true: 1.) Lower handicap golfers do not necessarily hit the ball farther (there are plenty of higher-handicap golfers who hit the ball a long way), and 2.) lower handicap golfers do not necessarily hit the ball straighter,

1- There is plenty of data that show that, in general, lower handicap golfers hit the ball farther. Sure there are outliers (think the bell curve), but there is a definite correlation. You also can't go by the one out of ten great drive that a high handicapper hits and eliminate all the errant drives when measuring distance. Which relates to:

2- If lower handicaps didn't hit the ball straighter than higher handicaps, they wouldn't be lower handicaps ...

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On 12/26/2022 at 11:35 AM, fixyurdivot said:

I see the same thing in my experience.  Near scratch golfers who aren't long hitters and long hitters who can barely sniff sub 90. Not saying driving, then secondarily hitting distance through the bag, is the best delineator, but it seems better than using handicap.

Some people see one good long drive and associate that to the person, and forget about all the wayward drives that bring the average driving distance way down. The stats are there that show the correlation of handicap and driving distance.

Handicap would definitely be the best standard for which tee boxes to play. Even if a lower handicap doesn't hit it as long, they will more likely keep their ball in play and hit better approach shots.

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8 minutes ago, LICC said:

1- There is plenty of data that show that, in general, lower handicap golfers hit the ball farther. Sure there are outliers (think the bell curve), but there is a definite correlation. You also can't go by the one out of ten great drive that a high handicapper hits and eliminate all the errant drives when measuring distance. Which relates to:

2- If lower handicaps didn't hit the ball straighter than higher handicaps, they wouldn't be lower handicaps ...

Do you consider yourself and me (we are very close in handicap level) to be "high handicap golfers"?  If you are talking about 20+ handicappers, then I agree with you, but not a lot of 14-15 handicappers are nearly as inconsistent distance-wise as you suggest. 

Most older golfers who currently play to mid-teens handicaps were single-digit handicappers when they were in their primes (I played to between a 6 and 8 handicap index well into my 50s, and didn't balloon to more than a 10-handicap until I was about 61-62 years old.  Golfers who go through such a transition generally lose distance with all clubs in their bags, but very few of them have drastic variations between their best drives and their worst drives, nor are they wildly inconsistent distance-wise with the other clubs in their bags.  I know that my 235-237 yard driving average is not based on hitting some drives less than 200 yards and other drives 265+ yards; it's more like bad drives = 215-220 yards and best drives generally go 245-255 yards.  Higher handicappers who average 200 yards off the tee rarely, if ever, hit a drive less than 175-180 yards, and almost never hit a drive more than 215 yards, if that far.  Same thing goes for the ultra-high (25+) handicappers that I see, particularly ultra-high handicap senior golfers.  Most of these golfers struggle to hit their driver 160-165 yards, but a bad drive for them is usually in the 140 yard range.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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11 minutes ago, LICC said:

Wouldn't that equate to players who are not very good should not play from the back tees? And handicap is the best measure for how good a player is.

Yes, and Yes

But .......  Based on my handicap, I should be all the way back. Getting close to mid 60's in age, past injuries and such it would not be enjoyable from back there. My distance off the tee is only 220 /230 and a nutted one might get to 240. Also very important is my handicap is based on tees that are not back there. 

When I go to a new course and knowing what my handicap is based on, and what distances that is from, I pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  If you have an established handicap, then you should know the general range of the course ratings, slope and distance this is based on. Then you should look at the course you are about to play and pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  You can get close in distance but it's luck of the draw on slope rating. A bit more slope is a bit more of a challenge.     

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43 minutes ago, LICC said:

Wouldn't that equate to players who are not very good should not play from the back tees? And handicap is the best measure for how good a player is.

 

7 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Yes, and Yes

But .......  Based on my handicap, I should be all the way back. Getting close to mid 60's in age, past injuries and such it would not be enjoyable from back there. My distance off the tee is only 220 /230 and a nutted one might get to 240. Also very important is my handicap is based on tees that are not back there. 

When I go to a new course and knowing what my handicap is based on, and what distances that is from, I pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  If you have an established handicap, then you should know the general range of the course ratings, slope and distance this is based on. Then you should look at the course you are about to play and pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  You can get close in distance but it's luck of the draw on slope rating. A bit more slope is a bit more of a challenge.     

Agree: and Agree:  A group I go with on a trip is always hung up on how far people hit the ball, as a measure of how good someone is.  I have been arguing for years to let older and higher handicap players play forward.  I argue to no avail, that just because a higher handicap plays forward and maybe is in front of me off the tee, has almost nothing to do with what the eventual score will be.  Being closer for him, may put a less inconsistent club in his hands, but it is still inconsistent.  Being closer, on his approach will not make him a better bunker player(slows down).  Being closer off the tee does not automatically eliminate skulled chips from one side to the other.  Higher handicaps playing back only puts wild more inconsistent clubs in their hand.  Their topped drives from too far back now put unhittable 2H & 3W's in their hand.  Because golf dictates you hit 3W from that far.

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

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25 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Yes, and Yes

But .......  Based on my handicap, I should be all the way back. Getting close to mid 60's in age, past injuries and such it would not be enjoyable from back there. My distance off the tee is only 220 /230 and a nutted one might get to 240. Also very important is my handicap is based on tees that are not back there. 

When I go to a new course and knowing what my handicap is based on, and what distances that is from, I pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  If you have an established handicap, then you should know the general range of the course ratings, slope and distance this is based on. Then you should look at the course you are about to play and pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  You can get close in distance but it's luck of the draw on slope rating. A bit more slope is a bit more of a challenge.     

I don't see any issue with a low handicap golfer playing from the forward tees (unless it is a competition with rules around it). I'm looking at the etiquette POV. Higher handicaps should not be on the back tees. 

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

Wouldn't that equate to players who are not very good should not play from the back tees? And handicap is the best measure for how good a player is.

I have never once advocated for not very good players playing from the back (or even the middle) tees. I just think that golfers should determine from which tees to play based on how far they REALISTICALLY hit their driver and a middle iron (5 or 7 iron, really doesn’t matter to me), and NOT based on handicap.  There are far too many low handicap players (by “low”, I mean 5 to 8 handicappers) who hit driver 200 yards and 7 iron about 135-140.  Likewise, I play with LOTS of high handicap players (16-24 handicappers) who hit their drivers 250-275 yards ON AVERAGE, and who hit 9 iron 140+ yards(they obviously suck at the short game including putting and course management). If you were to base tee selection on handicap, these long-hitting higher handicap players would be playing from the forward tees and the short-hitting 5-handicap players would be playing from further back, where they have no chance of reaching virtually any par 4 or par 5 holes in regulation, and many par 3 holes would be unreachable.

Rather than handicap, what I am advocating is that golfers be honest with themselves about how far they hit the golf ball and select their tees accordingly. For example, last summer at age 73+, I played golf in England and Scotland and 4 of the courses that I played were multiple Open Championship venues. I played all courses from tees that resulted in 18-hole playing lengths between 6,200-6,500 yards, and aside from the one day that we played in 25-40 MPH winds with rain blowing sideways for about 9 holes, I shot between 87-91 on all of these championship courses (slope ratings between 130-139). Other than the rainy-windy day, all rounds were played in 4:15 or less. If you were to base my tee selections on my then 16+ handicap index, I would have been playing from tee boxes that were as much as 900 yards shorter on all of those courses….. and enjoying myself much less. And isn’t golf about enjoying yourself, while maintaining a proper pace of play?

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Yes, and Yes

But .......  Based on my handicap, I should be all the way back. Getting close to mid 60's in age, past injuries and such it would not be enjoyable from back there. My distance off the tee is only 220 /230 and a nutted one might get to 240. Also very important is my handicap is based on tees that are not back there. 

When I go to a new course and knowing what my handicap is based on, and what distances that is from, I pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  If you have an established handicap, then you should know the general range of the course ratings, slope and distance this is based on. Then you should look at the course you are about to play and pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  You can get close in distance but it's luck of the draw on slope rating. A bit more slope is a bit more of a challenge.     

Hopping in late here. Few thoughts -

First, golf is for fun. Play whatever tees you want to have fun. As long as you play fast and respect the course I don't care. There are matchplay courses that have zero tee boxes. Tee it up wherever you want. Ohoopee and another course in the NE (can't remember the name). Tom Coyne visited and had a fun reflection on how he doesn't like it because you can't add your round to GIN but he also likes it because its about fun. 

Second thought - I've played this course plus a lot of the other courses on the RTJ trail. These courses are designed with clear landing areas. Typically 120-170 yards out. I have played a number of scrambles where I play a tee up. I have found that it makes the course play much harder. Landing areas are much smaller, slopes instead of flat lies, OB, awkward yardages, fairway ends and second shot in rough, etc. if you choose to hit driver. Otherwise you can play hybrids and irons all day. So I do think that there is some thought to be given to course design.

 

Final thought - why do pros hate a 300 yard par 3 but love 300 yard par 4s if the average score is not too different. 

Short Par 4s

Riv hole 10 - avg score 3.88 (2021)

TPC River Highlands hole 15 - avg score 3.85 (2022)

Long Par 3s

Oakmont hole 8 - avg score 3.3 (2016)

Ocean Course hole 17 - 3.3 (2012)

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I play with the guy every week.  He hits as many 300 yard drives as he hits 250 yarders, yet he generally shoots in the low 100s.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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4 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Do you consider yourself and me (we are very close in handicap level) to be "high handicap golfers"?  If you are talking about 20+ handicappers, then I agree with you, but not a lot of 14-15 handicappers are nearly as inconsistent distance-wise as you suggest. 

A 15 handicap is about an average golfer, and not likely to be able to consistently hit fairways with driver.

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2 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I play with the guy every week.  He hits as many 300 yard drives as he hits 250 yarders, yet he generally shoots in the low 100s.

And how many drives does he slice or pull hook out of play?

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2 minutes ago, LICC said:

There is no way a 24 handicap is averaging 275 yard drives.

This guy’s USGA Handicap Index is in the high 21s, and he’s generally playing to a 24 handicap at most of the courses that we play on our winter golf tour. He also hits a 9 iron about as far as I hit a 6 or 7 iron — and that is playing in cold winter conditions where the ball doesn’t travel as far.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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1 minute ago, LICC said:

And how many drives does he slice or pull hook out of play?

Maybe 1 out of 7 or 8; not necessarily out of play but into the woods or in bad areas where it’s just about impossible to recover — and he doesn’t slice the ball; if he misses, it’s generally a hook or pull-hook. On a tight course, he’s in trouble, but so am I all too often.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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52 minutes ago, LICC said:

High handicappers playing the back tees are reducing the fun of those playing behind them. It's disrespectful. 

On that I agree with you 100%

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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54 minutes ago, LICC said:

A 15 handicap is about an average golfer, and not likely to be able to consistently hit fairways with driver.

Well, that should describe both of us, I guess. I'm certainly guilty in many of my rounds, unless I'm teeing off with my 4-wood. On the fairly rare occasions when I'm hitting lots of fairways, I don't shoot like I'm anywhere near a 15 handicap, but it's those rounds when I am driving like a 20+ handicap golfer that kill me.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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22 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Maybe 1 out of 7 or 8; not necessarily out of play but into the woods or in bad areas where it’s just about impossible to recover — and he doesn’t slice the ball; if he misses, it’s generally a hook or pull-hook. On a tight course, he’s in trouble, but so am I all too often.

Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. 

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3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. 

I would agree.  The trouble is normally that this type of individual does hit it 275 but has no idea where it is going.  But because of that one great one, he is convinced that playing forward, and hitting less than driver off the tee, will be too short, and make the game too "easy" for him.  Hence everyone has to wait for him to hack out of the trees hole after hole.

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

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22 hours ago, LICC said:

There is no way a 24 handicap is averaging 275 yard drives.

 

32 minutes ago, LICC said:

Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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42 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

No, they can't.

As @stuka44 said, people see one or two great drives and think they are averaging that, and aren't counting all the pulls and slices. If someone can be that good to keep the ball in play 7 out of 8 times with 275 yard drives, they have a very good golf swing. Even if their short game and putting isn't very good, they won't be that outstanding in swinging a driver and so awful with everything else that they are a 24. 275 yards is a monster drive. Top 1%. To be able to do that 7 out of 8 times needs skill and athletic ability. 

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On 1/15/2023 at 2:50 PM, panhndl said:

Did you read anything I typed?  I enjoy league.  I joined to meet some other golfers in my town and found quite a few folks I knew but didn’t realize they golfed.  I enjoy the competition and the opportunity to golf more under a little pressure.  It’s also the only league I can join.  And my point of bringing up league had nothing to do with changing league.  It had everything to do with the discussion around proper tees for a golfers’ ability.  
 

You’re fixating on something that really isn’t central to the discussion of tees and golfers choosing poor ones for their ability.

Yeah.  That wasn’t my point at all but the discussion around league play seems to have taken on a life of its own.  It wasn’t my intent steer the conversation that direction but here we are.  Sorry about that.

 

League play seems to be a sacred cow.

Amazing how every person who has replied are misinterpreting what you meant to convey.

I wonder why that’s happening?

Driver:          :ping-small: G425 Max 10.5*

Fairway:      :ping-small: G425 Max 14*5* & 17.5*

Hybrids:      :ping-small: G425 Max 22* & 26*

Irons:           :callaway-small: Apex DCB 6-AW

Wedges:      :callaway-small: Jaws Raw Face 54-10

                      :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 58-6

Putter:         :EVNROLL:  ER7  34”

                      

                      

 

 

             

             

 

 

 

 

 

              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

RickyBobby,

EXACTLY!  I posted just that a few days ago, but nobody else seemed to have paid attention.  Inside of 120 yards, this guy's game is very poor, and inside of 80-90 yards it is absolutely atrocious. He also 3 or 4-putts about 8 to 10 holes in an "average" round, and on bad days he 3-putts almost every hole!

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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5 hours ago, LICC said:

No, they can't.

As @stuka44 said, people see one or two great drives and think they are averaging that, and aren't counting all the pulls and slices. If someone can be that good to keep the ball in play 7 out of 8 times with 275 yard drives, they have a very good golf swing. Even if their short game and putting isn't very good, they won't be that outstanding in swinging a driver and so awful with everything else that they are a 24. 275 yards is a monster drive. Top 1%. To be able to do that 7 out of 8 times needs skill and athletic ability. 

Who said that he hits driver on every par 4 and par 5 hole?  He hits a 3-iron off the tee as often as he hits his driver and he hits the 3-iron at least 225 yards.  He used to carry a 2-iron, but I kept telling him that he should not even be carrying a 3-iron, much less 2-iron.  This year and the end of last year, he has proven me wrong, by hitting the fairway a lot with that 3-iron.

He still cannot pitch, chip, or putt worth a damn!

Edited by funkyjudge

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

I used to play with a WLD competitor. He didn't always hit the fairways with his 360-yard drives, but he often drove the greens on short to medium length par-4s.  His short game may have been the absolute worst that I ever saw.

One time, when he won the long drive prize in a tournament that he and I were both playing in, his prize (donated by me) was a custom-fit set of wedges (the closest to the pin winner won a driver, also fitted and built by me). A couple months later when I played a round of golf with him, I asked how the wedges were working out and he said "I still can't hit wedges to save my life".  Sadly, he was correct!

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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5 hours ago, LICC said:

No, they can't.

As @stuka44 said, people see one or two great drives and think they are averaging that, and aren't counting all the pulls and slices. If someone can be that good to keep the ball in play 7 out of 8 times with 275 yard drives, they have a very good golf swing. Even if their short game and putting isn't very good, they won't be that outstanding in swinging a driver and so awful with everything else that they are a 24. 275 yards is a monster drive. Top 1%. To be able to do that 7 out of 8 times needs skill and athletic ability. 

You really need to get out and play with other people. Your logic just isn’t good.

 

12 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

Who said that he hits driver on every par 4 and par 5 hole?  He hits a 3-iron off the tee as often as he hits his driver and he hits the 3-iron at least 225 yards.  He used to carry a 2-iron, but I kept telling him that he should not even be carrying a 3-iron, much less 2-iron.  This year and the end of last year, he has proven me wron, by hitting the fairway a lot with that 3-iron.

He still cannot pitch, chip, or putt worth a damn!

Exactly. People assume driver is hit on every par 4 and 5 or that it can’t be possible for a high handicap to not top a ball mishit one short.

Guys that play hockey or baseball tend to have good hand eye coordination and hit the ball pretty decent. But they also struggle when they can’t go all out like driver. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You really need to get out and play with other people. Your logic just isn’t good.

 

Exactly. People assume driver is hit on every par 4 and 5 or that it can’t be possible for a high handicap to not top a ball mishit one short.

Guys that play hockey or baseball tend to have good hand eye coordination and hit the ball pretty decent. But they also struggle when they can’t go all out like driver. 

AMEN! I played baseball until I was 36, including two years in the Puerto Rican Winter League, and didn’t start playing golf until I retired from baseball. I love going all-out with my driver, but I have not always been good with those little “finesse shots “.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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