panhndl Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 On 1/18/2023 at 2:55 PM, funkyjudge said: Maybe 1 out of 7 or 8; not necessarily out of play but into the woods or in bad areas where it’s just about impossible to recover — and he doesn’t slice the ball; if he misses, it’s generally a hook or pull-hook. On a tight course, he’s in trouble, but so am I all too often. 19 hours ago, LICC said: Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. I would like to point out that tour pro hit about 70% of the fairways. I know it's not apples to apples, but its worth noting. If your friend hits the fairway 6 out of 7 shots, he's at about 85%. That means he's around 15 or 16 holes out of 18. LICC 1 Quote Driver: Ping G425 Max 10.5 Fujikara Speeder NX 50r #3, #5, #7 fairway woods 1 Iron Golf 5-LW irons 1 Iron Golf Scotty Cameron Del Mar Lefties Rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhndl Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 13 hours ago, Grand Stranded said: Amazing how every person who has replied are misinterpreting what you meant to convey. I wonder why that’s happening? I love the snark! Not everyone was misinterpreting... Quote Driver: Ping G425 Max 10.5 Fujikara Speeder NX 50r #3, #5, #7 fairway woods 1 Iron Golf 5-LW irons 1 Iron Golf Scotty Cameron Del Mar Lefties Rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, panhndl said: If your friend hits the fairway 6 out of 7 shots, he's at about 85%. That means he's around 15 or 16 holes out of 18. Most course only have 14 fairways because of 4 par 3s panhndl 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, panhndl said: I would like to point out that tour pro hit about 70% of the fairways. I know it's not apples to apples, but its worth noting. Based on stats from 2022, the average PGA pro hit fairway percentage is 59.76 https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.213.y2022.html panhndl 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LICC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 14 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: You really need to get out and play with other people. Your logic just isn’t good. Exactly. People assume driver is hit on every par 4 and 5 or that it can’t be possible for a high handicap to not top a ball mishit one short. Guys that play hockey or baseball tend to have good hand eye coordination and hit the ball pretty decent. But they also struggle when they can’t go all out like driver. Don't get snarky because your arguments are falling apart to reality. 14 hours ago, funkyjudge said: Who said that he hits driver on every par 4 and par 5 hole? He hits a 3-iron off the tee as often as he hits his driver and he hits the 3-iron at least 225 yards. He used to carry a 2-iron, but I kept telling him that he should not even be carrying a 3-iron, much less 2-iron. This year and the end of last year, he has proven me wrong, by hitting the fairway a lot with that 3-iron. He still cannot pitch, chip, or putt worth a damn! Hitting a 3-iron accurately over 225 is even more unbelievable. There is no way your friend can hit a 3-iron 225 accurately 7 out of 8 times and he can't hit a pitching wedge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, LICC said: Don't get snarky because your arguments are falling apart to reality. Hitting a 3-iron accurately over 225 is even more unbelievable. There is no way your friend can hit a 3-iron 225 accurately 7 out of 8 times and he can't hit a pitching wedge. Well, your “no ways” have been wrong a couple of times, so you’ve got that going for you. RickyBobby_PR 1 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter) Bags - Vessel Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, LICC said: Don't get snarky because your arguments are falling apart to reality. Hitting a 3-iron accurately over 225 is even more unbelievable. There is no way your friend can hit a 3-iron 225 accurately 7 out of 8 times and he can't hit a pitching wedge. My arguments are based on real life experience and yours are based on your misperceptions that all high handicaps have the same issues or that it’s impossible for high handicaps to be long off the tee and keep a ball from getting lost or going out of bounds. you can never except anyone’s personal experience when it contradicts your beliefs about something. Your perceptions of golf have been at ofs with almost everybody on 2 forums so it’s not the one you are at odds with that are in the wrong Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, panhndl said: I would like to point out that tour pro hit about 70% of the fairways. I know it's not apples to apples, but its worth noting. If your friend hits the fairway 6 out of 7 shots, he's at about 85%. That means he's around 15 or 16 holes out of 18. The question was not how many times he hits the fairway; it was how many times he hits it OB or completely out of play. A golfer can hit the ball in deep rough, woods, or a lot of other bad places without hitting the ball OB or in a hazard. RickyBobby_PR and panhndl 2 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter) Bags - Vessel Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, LICC said: Don't get snarky because your arguments are falling apart to reality. Hitting a 3-iron accurately over 225 is even more unbelievable. There is no way your friend can hit a 3-iron 225 accurately 7 out of 8 times and he can't hit a pitching wedge. What is your definition of “accurately”? All of those 3-iron shots that go 225+ yards don’t end up in the fairway, nor do all of those 7 of 8 tee shots end up in the fairway. You asked how many tee shots end up OB or out of play/lost, and that’s what I answered. As I posted above, a ball can be in deep rough, the woods, or other bad places without being OB or lost/out of play. Edited January 20, 2023 by funkyjudge RickyBobby_PR 1 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter) Bags - Vessel Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhndl Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Most course only have 14 fairways because of 4 par 3s Yeah, I was just pointing out how many it would be per 18. I wasn't trying to remove the par 3's but your point stands. 1 hour ago, cnosil said: Based on stats from 2022, the average PGA pro hit fairway percentage is 59.76 https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.213.y2022.html I saw that page but didn't see the average. Thanks. My number came from another sight not related to the PGA. Quote Driver: Ping G425 Max 10.5 Fujikara Speeder NX 50r #3, #5, #7 fairway woods 1 Iron Golf 5-LW irons 1 Iron Golf Scotty Cameron Del Mar Lefties Rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, funkyjudge said: What is your definition of “accurately”? All of those 3-iron shots that go 225+ yards don’t end up in the fairway, nor do all of those 7 of 8 tee shots end up in the fairway. You asked how many tee shots end up OB or out of play/lost, and that’s what I answered. As I posted above, a ball can be in deep rough, the woods, or other bad places without being OB or lost/out of play. Something that we talk about in the gym all the time is that people think certain things are impossible because they’ve never seen someone do it. Example would be seeing a lightweight female squat 400lbs or maybe bench 225 or deadlift 400+lbs. to the human mind that doesn’t make sense and is impossible or that the person has to be doing some kind of steroids. It’s because they have never seen it happen in their gym or in their limited exposure. It’s not much different here. funkyjudge 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhndl Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, funkyjudge said: The question was not how many times he hits the fairway; it was how many times he hits it OB or completely out of play. A golfer can hit the ball in deep rough, woods, or a lot of other bad places without hitting the ball OB or in a hazard. Fair enough. I don't know of any stats that talk about fairways missed but still playable. I just know about fairways hit so that's the only metric I can use. cnosil and funkyjudge 2 Quote Driver: Ping G425 Max 10.5 Fujikara Speeder NX 50r #3, #5, #7 fairway woods 1 Iron Golf 5-LW irons 1 Iron Golf Scotty Cameron Del Mar Lefties Rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LICC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 25 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: My arguments are based on real life experience and yours are based on your misperceptions that all high handicaps have the same issues or that it’s impossible for high handicaps to be long off the tee and keep a ball from getting lost or going out of bounds. you can never except anyone’s personal experience when it contradicts your beliefs about something. Your perceptions of golf have been at ofs with almost everybody on 2 forums so it’s not the one you are at odds with that are in the wrong Your arguments are based on unverified anecdotes that are at odds with logic and the experiences of most others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, panhndl said: Fair enough. I don't know of any stats that talk about fairways missed but still playable. I just know about fairways hit so that's the only metric I can use. Exactly why FIR really isn’t a good metric. It would,be better if we could see things like what the approach to the green looked like and their actual dispersion cones. panhndl 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Something that we talk about in the gym all the time is that people think certain things are impossible because they’ve never seen someone do it. Example would be seeing a lightweight female squat 400lbs or maybe bench 225 or deadlift 400+lbs. to the human mind that doesn’t make sense and is impossible or that the person has to be doing some kind of steroids. It’s because they have never seen it happen in their gym or in their limited exposure. It’s not much different here. My son’s fiancé is a personal trainer and owned (or co-owned) a gym for more than 10 years. She’s about 5’-3” and 115 lbs, but I’m pretty sure that she can get pretty close to all of those numbers. My wife’s personal trainer (also female) is considerably bigger than my son’s fiancé (about 5’9”, 140-150 lbs) but she could definitely squat and deadlift 300+ pounds, maybe considerably more. When she lived in our area, I used to train with my wife’s PT, and I was in darned good shape at the time (maybe 15+ years ago). She put me to shame, and at my fittest/strongest, I was 195-198 lbs and had legs like tree trunks and a six pack of abs. RickyBobby_PR 1 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter) Bags - Vessel Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) This is all I know. I play exclusively public courses, and for now I play on the weekends. The number of times I have seen what is clearly a beginning or high handicap golfer apply any sort of strategy, to reduce the chances of getting into trouble, is so rare it is statistically insignificant. Lastly lets look at almost EVERY OTHER, sport or game. Basketball.. first we teach our kids how to dribble.....Then we take them right out to a full size basketball court and have them start jacking up 3 pointers, right! After all starting by making layups would make basketball "too easy". Baseball...We buy our kids a glove....Then we take them out to a full size diamond, plop them on first base, and start peppering regulation baseballs at them from third right! After all one day they may play first, and if this it what its going to be one day, no sense starting with a tennis or rubber ball from 15 feet away, what's the point!!! Football... You either catch the 25 yard bullet pass I throw at you on the first day, or what's the point!!! Golf is virtually the only sport where after a few times on the range, someone is taken to a full size golf course, and it is viewed by many including themselves, because of what they've heard, or been told, that it is unacceptable mostly as a man, to learn how to play the game from 5100 yards instead of 6000+. That's just STUPID, and that is the problem, and that is where 80-90 percent of slow play comes from. Edited January 20, 2023 by stuka44 silver & black and vandyland 2 Quote Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Putter: Scottsdale Wolverine Woods: Gigagolf 3W, 2H, 3H Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, funkyjudge said: My son’s fiancé is a personal trainer and owned (or co-owned) a gym for more than 10 years. She’s about 5’-3” and 115 lbs, but I’m pretty sure that she can get pretty close to all of those numbers. My wife’s personal trainer (also female) is considerably bigger than my son’s fiancé (about 5’9”, 140-150 lbs) but she could definitely squat and deadlift 300+ pounds, maybe considerably more. When she lived in our area, I used to train with my wife’s PT, and I was in darned good shape at the time (maybe 15+ years ago). She put me to shame, and at my fittest/strongest, I was 195-198 lbs and had legs like tree trunks and a six pack of abs. I have a friend that is 5’4” weighted in at about 147 for her last meet and squatted 429 with some left in the tank, benches 259 with some in the tank and pulled 501z there are several females I follow that are in that weigh range or lighter that have 350-400+ squat, 200-250 bench and well well over 400 deadlifts. I am never surprised by what people can do in any sport. I’ve seen enough to know that nothing is impossible funkyjudge 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregB135 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Chiming in late here, but many have made comments that fall into this thought trail. The RTJ RECOMMENDED tees are based on statistical averages. The statistical majority of golfers with handicaps of 5 or lower, tend to have longer average driving distance and it would be fair to suggest they play the longer tees. (Relax statisticians, were talking generics here so hold off on your means, averages, standard deviations and slopes and such). But, realistically, if you are a 5 handicap with an average drive of 230, you are living under the flat part of the 5 handicap bell curve. Likewise, a 20 handicap golfer with a driving average of 260+ is under the flat part of their driving bell curve. I also think too many golfers have yet to break the mental paradigm of asigning labels to the tee boxes like Men's, Ladies, Seniors, Juniors or whatever. We all have a total yardage that suits our game. Select the tee box that fits your game best and discard the labels and who cares about color?. For me, I'm really comfortable in the 6200 to 6500 total yardage range. Shorter than that takes the long clubs out of play too often and reduces the challenge factor that I (claim to) enjoy. Longer than that and it's too many long approach shots to realistically expect to score. Stuka44, fixyurdivot and vandyland 3 Quote Driver: 311XF Gen5, Tensei CK Pro Orange, S flex Fariway: 311XF Gen6 3-Wood, Tensei Blue 55g R flex Hybrid: 211, 3H Project X Evenflow H, 80g, 5.5 TSR2 4H, Tensei Blue R (Forum Tester) Irons: T200 2023, Tensei Blue R (Forum Tester), 5-GW Wedges: CBX2 Zipcore 52*, 56* Project X Catalyst Spinner Graphite Shaft Putter: ER2 Murdered Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandyland Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 11:55 AM, stuka44 said: Lastly lets look at almost EVERY OTHER, sport or game. Basketball.. first we teach our kids how to dribble.....Then we take them right out to a full size basketball court and have them start jacking up 3 pointers, right! After all starting by making layups would make basketball "too easy". Baseball...We buy our kids a glove....Then we take them out to a full size diamond, plop them on first base, and start peppering regulation baseballs at them from third right! After all one day they may play first, and if this it what its going to be one day, no sense starting with a tennis or rubber ball from 15 feet away, what's the point!!! Football... You either catch the 25 yard bullet pass I throw at you on the first day, or what's the point!!! I like this example and one I tag along with this is going into the gym. You wouldn't take a beginner and say "well the average man benches 195 lbs" and then throw that on a bench press and tell them to have at it. They ease into it. Just as they should on the golf course. But men, even men that play once a year or less, GENERALLY stride out to the "men's tees" and start trying to play. Again, I am not a hero but I play golf pretty much weekly, I am a mid single digit handicap and I average (YES actual average tracked on a GPS app not "Gee I think when I really center it I can hit it....") 265 yds off the tee. What tees do I generally play at my home course? 5,900 yds. They go up to 6,800 yds which I will never play unless forced at gunpoint (yet to happen). When I travel or play a new course, I generally stay around 5,800 - 6,100 yds and don't play ratings over 70.0. Golf is much more fun that way even though I could, theoretically, play from much farther back. Stuka44 and excourse 2 Quote STZ 230 9.5* "Std" setting STZ 230 Hybrid 18* "lower" setting Pro Fli-Hi 21.5* MALTBY TS1-IM 5-GW Equalizer II 54* Glide 4.0 (S) 58* L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 Maxfli Tour X Official Review -- https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63068-testers-announced-maxfli-tour-x-golf-balls-with-max-align-technology/?do=findComment&comment=1021832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, vandyland said: Again, I am not a hero but I play golf pretty much weekly, I am a mid single digit handicap and I average (YES actual average tracked on a GPS app not "Gee I think when I really center it I can hit it....") 265 yds off the tee. What tees do I generally play at my home course? 5,900 yds. They go up to 6,800 yds which I will never play unless forced at gunpoint (yet to happen). When I travel or play a new course, I generally stay around 5,800 - 6,100 yds and don't play ratings over 70.0. Golf is much more fun that way even though I could, theoretically, play from much farther back. ... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. vandyland and sirchunksalot 2 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandyland Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, chisag said: Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? Yes, though as a 5-6 HDCP I'm not that low of an index but I can get around most golf courses. Avg 2nd shot distance into par 4s last time I played was about 90 yds so I wouldn't even say short irons but GW/SW typically. 17 minutes ago, chisag said: Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot Also yes. This happens on one hole. Just like when Patrick Cantlay plays the Rocket Mortgage Classic and hits 7 iron into 1/2 of the par 5s for his 2nd shot. 17 minutes ago, chisag said: just makes the course too easy You are a significantly better player than me so that makes sense. I have no aspirations to play competitively and I don't gamble so it's kind of whatever. I generally shoot between 72-76 from that distance but with the handicap adjustment that is usually a 4-9 differential. I have no illusions that I am some great player or will ever be a great player. Edited January 25, 2023 by vandyland excourse 1 Quote STZ 230 9.5* "Std" setting STZ 230 Hybrid 18* "lower" setting Pro Fli-Hi 21.5* MALTBY TS1-IM 5-GW Equalizer II 54* Glide 4.0 (S) 58* L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 Maxfli Tour X Official Review -- https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63068-testers-announced-maxfli-tour-x-golf-balls-with-max-align-technology/?do=findComment&comment=1021832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 19 minutes ago, vandyland said: I like this example and one I tag along with this is going into the gym. You wouldn't take a beginner and say "well the average man benches 195 lbs" and then throw that on a bench press and tell them to have at it. They ease into it. Just as they should on the golf course. But men, even men that play once a year or less, GENERALLY stride out to the "men's tees" and start trying to play. Again, I am not a hero but I play golf pretty much weekly, I am a mid single digit handicap and I average (YES actual average tracked on a GPS app not "Gee I think when I really center it I can hit it....") 265 yds off the tee. What tees do I generally play at my home course? 5,900 yds. They go up to 6,800 yds which I will never play unless forced at gunpoint (yet to happen). When I travel or play a new course, I generally stay around 5,800 - 6,100 yds and don't play ratings over 70.0. Golf is much more fun that way even though I could, theoretically, play from much farther back. I’m almost 30 yards shorter than you are with driver off the tee, and probably only hit it 265 or more with my driver a very small number of times in a year of playing golf (firm links courses in the UK notwithstanding). I do like your choice for preferred playing yardages, and I play a significant percentage of my rounds at those yardage and course rating levels. However, my winter golf tour insists that all golfers, from pros and scratch amateurs to super senior players, play from the same tees. I tried getting an open spot on that tour’s Board of Directors during the last offseason, and had support from a good number of my fellow amateur and senior amateur players, but after making it to the final three candidates, I lost out to a NCAA Division I golf coach who plays to between a 1 and 2 handicap. Among the amateur golfers on the Board, the highest handicap players are in the 4 to 6 range. Part of the reason that I ran for the Board was to bring the higher handicap and senior members’ perspective to the Board, and I mentioned that in my interview. Although the League President and a couple other Board members said they liked this, I suspect that it may have been what prevented me from winning the position. I fully intended to bring up having senior golfers on this tour play from the forward tees. On my golf trip to NW England and Scotland last summer, all male golfers were asked to play from the middle tees, but there was a footnote saying that you were free to play from the forward tees (a couple courses had gold “senior” tees, but not all of them had them). One guy about 3 years older than me played from the forward tees, and a few other guys should have done this. One woman actually played from the men’s tees, but she also shot 74 from those tees at Royal Birkdale; the other 3 women on this trip played from the red forward tees. Other than at the Ailsa Course at Turnberry, which played at 6,540 yards from the white tees, I had no problem playing the middle tees on that trip, and managed to shoot in the mid-80s at Royal Troon, but on the firm linksland fairways, we were all getting good runout and I was hitting both driver and 4-wood about 20-25 yards farther than I do on softer fairways here in the US. Turnberry was another story altogether, with rain and strong winds resulting in poor carry distance and little to no runout. That was absolutely no fun, and I shot 101 that day, only one day after my 87 at Troon. Unless I know that I can expect to get 40 or more yards of runout when I hit the fairway with my drives, and am able to run the ball onto the greens, I much prefer to play 5,800 yard courses than the 6,200-6,540 yard layouts that we played in the UK. vandyland 1 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter) Bags - Vessel Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 By the way, that 87 at Royal Troon was an 11 differential (I was playing to a 16.3 Index when I got to England, and my handicap dropped to 15.3 by the time we returned, even with the 101 that I posted at Turnberry’s Ailsa Course with its 72/130 course/slope rating). Quote DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter) Bags - Vessel Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, chisag said: it just makes the course too easy 2 hours ago, vandyland said: Again, I am not a hero I am not as good as either of you two. Now this thread started primarily about higher handicaps, presumably higher than me. Now I'm not sure what could be really too easy about a higher handicap playing from these distances, or closer. Because I would consider myself an above average player and I find nothing about the distances I play being too easy. These are the courses I've played, number of times I've played(last 5 years), and some stats for each course. I am 56 and getting about 225-250 off the tee depending on roll. Erie Shores: Flat course, flatish greens, quickly determined 9 sand bunkers, water 2 holes: 5793 yards (45 times)(Par 70) Birdies 4%, Pars 38%, Bogey 45%..GIR 35%, Average Score 82.4 (HIO 184 9/21/19, EAG 11/13/21 Hole out from 100) ONLY BETTER THAN BIRDIE SCORES Powderhorn: Hilly Course, few bunkers, but 5-7 greens really sloped, , or 4 putt possible in summer..5679 yd,( 29times) Par 70) Birdies 6.5%, Pars 36%, Bogey 42%, GIR 41%, Avg. Score 83.6(Eagle April 2022, drove 257 yard p 4, by rolling between 2 front bunkers) Madison CC: Still has sand every hole, and FW sand on most still, fastest greens of courses listed. 6126 yds. (14 times) Par 71 Birdies 0.79%, Par 35%, Bogey 41%, GIR 31%, Average Score 87(no better than birdie) Hemlock Springs: Some elevation change 5-9 bunkers left, largest greens of listed, average speed. 6500 yds. par 72, (32 times) Birdies 3.3%, Par 35%, Bogey 42%, GIR 30%, Average Score 86.6(no better than birdie), And I have now made several options of playing this course by changing tees so it is 5900-6100 yards). As vandyland said, I am no hero either. Chisag(no offense), but I think vandy is right. Your idea of what would make golf too easy for higher handicaps than me, may be a little skewed by your exceedingly low handicap. I'm not sure why an 18-20+ handicap, especially new, or newer players would need to play at more than 5600-5700 at the most(AND NOT BE SKOLDED, THREATENED, OR EVEN HUMILIATED ABOUT BAD SHOTS) OR WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THEM TO PLAY FROM THAT DISTANCE) I'm kidding but it NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND BE INSISTED UPON. Their numbers will certainly be worse than mine, and I don't believe in any way that the numbers I have put up are making the game too easy for me. Certainly for you, but I really don't think for anyone higher than me. JUST MY TAKE! funkyjudge 1 Quote Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Putter: Scottsdale Wolverine Woods: Gigagolf 3W, 2H, 3H Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 3 hours ago, chisag said: ... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. im 265ish off the tee and can get it out to 285-290 occasionally and slightly higher hdcp than vandyland. I prefer to play from a distance that has me using a majority of my clubs. Most courses around here that’s 6300-6700. Other than some of our mountain courses anything around 6000 is a lot of short irons and wedges into greens and even some potential driveable par 4s 3 hours ago, chisag said: ... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. im 265ish off the tee and can get it out to 285-290 occasionally and slightly higher hdcp than vandyland. I prefer to play from a distance that has me using a majority of my clubs. Most courses around here that’s 6300-6700. Other than some of our mountain courses anything around 6000 is a lot of short irons and wedges into greens and even some potential driveable par 4s 3 hours ago, chisag said: ... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. im 265ish off the tee and can get it out to 285-290 occasionally and slightly higher hdcp than vandyland. I prefer to play from a distance that has me using a majority of my clubs. Most courses around here that’s 6300-6700. Other than some of our mountain courses anything around 6000 is a lot of short irons and wedges into greens and even some potential driveable par 4s chisag 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 so, this thread had me thinking about John Rahms final round at Stadium Course at PGA west last sunday... I did some kitchen math, so bear with me please. Let's say when John is firing on all cylinders, in the dry air in the desert he probably averages 310 off the tee. When I am firing on all cylinders, in the dry air in the desert I am probably averaging 260 off the tee. So John is playing 7100 yd golf course, if I extrapolate 50 yds x 14 fairways (not counting the par 3's) that would be 700 yds. I am thinking, in those conditions with perfect greens, no wind, I could probably break 70 if I played it at 6400 yds. So therein lyes the rub... why would I play at 7100 yds and have an excruciatingly painful round when I could play 6400 and possibly enjoy my experience... is anyone going to say "but yeah you played it from 6400 yds?" I shot 67 at Toscana in Palm Desert about 6 years ago with a 29 on the front, not once has anyone asked "you shot 29 on the front nine at Toscana, what distance did you play it?" The only think I remember is the scorekeeper said to the group "that is the first time I have ever written a "2" in front of a nine hole number in my life... Anyway now my brain is hurting from all the kitchen math.... vandyland 1 Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 4 hours ago, stuka44 said: As vandyland said, I am no hero either. Chisag(no offense), but I think vandy is right. Your idea of what would make golf too easy for higher handicaps than me, may be a little skewed by your exceedingly low handicap. I'm not sure why an 18-20+ handicap, especially new, or newer players would need to play at more than 5600-5700 at the most ... I hope you guys understood I was not insinuating anyone should play from farther back. Maybe "too easy" wasn't the best choice of words and I should have said "Still allow you to play variety of clubs ... at least on some holes". There is obviously a reason they make fairway woods, hybrids and long irons and even when I started if I never used those clubs I would feel like I am missing out on the challenge this game offers. Vandy's post said he hit his driver 265, leaving around 90yds on the approach shot so he could use driver, wedges, putter and leave the rest of the clubs at home. Again, if that makes anyone happy and you enjoy playing anyway you want I am not saying you should do anything different. I did preface the post with "just curious" so thanks for the answers! Stuka44, GolfSpy_APH, RickyBobby_PR and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 41 minutes ago, chisag said: ... I hope you guys understood I was not insinuating anyone should play from farther back. Maybe "too easy" wasn't the best choice of words and I should have said "Still allow you to play variety of clubs ... at least on some holes". There is obviously a reason they make fairway woods, hybrids and long irons and even when I started if I never used those clubs I would feel like I am missing out on the challenge this game offers. Vandy's post said he hit his driver 265, leaving around 90yds on the approach shot so he could use driver, wedges, putter and leave the rest of the clubs at home. Again, if that makes anyone happy and you enjoy playing anyway you want I am not saying you should do anything different. I did preface the post with "just curious" so thanks for the answers! Wasn’t thinking that’s what you were insinuating. I was agreeing with your thoughts about playing for the challenge and how that’s fun for you. I also have no issues with people playing from wherever if that’s fun for them. GolfSpy_APH 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Wasn’t thinking that’s what you were insinuating. I was agreeing with your thoughts about playing for the challenge and how that’s fun for you. I also have no issues with people playing from wherever if that’s fun for them. ... Not you RB, I was referring to Vandy and Stuka. GolfSpy_APH, RickyBobby_PR and Stuka44 3 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 How many of you play hybrid tees? There was a course in Halifax which had a lot of forced carry. It was a fun course and quite a challenge. There were some holes the back tees really weren't that far back and made the hole more enjoyable. Others the backs were just ridiculous so we played one up and it made for a better yet still challenging experience. Maybe a better way of asking the question is taking a normal course, what length do you look for in a course? Or is your preferred length. Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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