Mandatory tee boxes?

[vandyland]

17 minutes ago, chisag said:

Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4?

Yes, though as a 5-6 HDCP I'm not that low of an index but I can get around most golf courses. Avg 2nd shot distance into par 4s last time I played was about 90 yds so I wouldn't even say short irons but GW/SW typically.

17 minutes ago, chisag said:

Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot

Also yes. This happens on one hole. Just like when Patrick Cantlay plays the Rocket Mortgage Classic and hits 7 iron into 1/2 of the par 5s for his 2nd shot. 

 

17 minutes ago, chisag said:

just makes the course too easy

You are a significantly better player than me so that makes sense. I have no aspirations to play competitively and I don't gamble so it's kind of whatever. I generally shoot between 72-76 from that distance but with the handicap adjustment that is usually a 4-9 differential. I have no illusions that I am some great player or will ever be a great player. 

Edited January 25 by vandyland

[funkyjudge]

19 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I like this example and one I tag along with this is going into the gym. You wouldn't take a beginner and say "well the average man benches 195 lbs" and then throw that on a bench press and tell them to have at it. They ease into it. Just as they should on the golf course. But men, even men that play once a year or less, GENERALLY stride out to the "men's tees" and start trying to play. 

Again, I am not a hero but I play golf pretty much weekly, I am a mid single digit handicap and I average (YES actual average tracked on a GPS app not "Gee I think when I really center it I can hit it....") 265 yds off the tee. What tees do I generally play at my home course? 5,900 yds. They go up to 6,800 yds which I will never play unless forced at gunpoint (yet to happen). When I travel or play a new course, I generally stay around 5,800 - 6,100 yds and don't play ratings over 70.0. Golf is much more fun that way even though I could, theoretically, play from much farther back. 

I’m almost 30 yards shorter than you are with driver off the tee, and probably only hit it 265 or more with my driver a very small number of times in a year of playing golf (firm links courses in the UK notwithstanding). I do like your choice for preferred playing yardages, and I play a significant percentage of my rounds at those yardage and course rating levels. However, my winter golf tour insists that all golfers, from pros and scratch amateurs to super senior players, play from the same tees. I tried getting an open spot on that tour’s Board of Directors during the last offseason, and had support from a good number of my fellow amateur and senior amateur players, but after making it to the final three candidates, I lost out to a NCAA Division I golf coach who plays to between a 1 and 2 handicap. Among the amateur golfers on the Board, the highest handicap players are in the 4 to 6 range. Part of the reason that I ran for the Board was to bring the higher handicap and senior members’ perspective to the Board, and I mentioned that in my interview. Although the League President and a couple other Board members said they liked this, I suspect that it may have been what prevented me from winning the position. I fully intended to bring up having senior golfers on this tour play from the forward tees.

On my golf trip to NW England and Scotland last summer, all male golfers were asked to play from the middle tees, but there was a footnote saying that you were free to play from the forward tees (a couple courses had gold “senior” tees, but not all of them had them). One guy about 3 years older than me played from the forward tees, and a few other guys should have done this. One woman actually played from the men’s tees, but she also shot 74 from those tees at Royal Birkdale; the other 3 women on this trip played from the red forward tees. Other than at the Ailsa Course at Turnberry, which played at 6,540 yards from the white tees, I had no problem playing the middle tees on that trip, and managed to shoot in the mid-80s at Royal Troon, but on the firm linksland fairways, we were all getting good runout and I was hitting both driver and 4-wood about 20-25 yards farther than I do on softer fairways here in the US.  Turnberry was another story altogether, with rain and strong winds resulting in poor carry distance and little to no runout.  That was absolutely no fun, and I shot 101 that day, only one day after my 87 at Troon.

Unless I know that I can expect to get 40 or more yards of runout when I hit the fairway with my drives, and am able to run the ball onto the greens, I much prefer to play 5,800 yard courses than the 6,200-6,540 yard layouts that we played in the UK.

[funkyjudge]

By the way, that 87 at Royal Troon was an 11 differential (I was playing to a 16.3 Index when I got to England, and my handicap dropped to 15.3 by the time we returned, even with the 101 that I posted at Turnberry’s Ailsa Course with its 72/130 course/slope rating).

[Stuka44]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

it just makes the course too easy

 

2 hours ago, vandyland said:

Again, I am not a hero

I am not as good as either of you two.  Now this thread started primarily about higher handicaps, presumably higher than me.  Now I'm not sure what could be really too easy about a higher handicap playing from these distances, or closer.  Because I would consider myself an above average player and I find nothing about the distances I play being too easy. These are the courses I've played, number of times I've played(last 5 years), and some stats for each course.  I am 56 and getting about 225-250 off the tee depending on roll.

Erie Shores: Flat course, flatish greens, quickly determined 9 sand bunkers, water 2 holes:  5793 yards (45 times)(Par 70)

Birdies 4%, Pars 38%, Bogey 45%..GIR 35%, Average Score 82.4 (HIO 184 9/21/19, EAG 11/13/21 Hole out from 100) ONLY BETTER THAN BIRDIE SCORES

Powderhorn:  Hilly Course, few bunkers, but 5-7 greens really sloped, , or 4 putt possible in summer..5679 yd,( 29times) Par 70)

Birdies 6.5%, Pars 36%, Bogey 42%, GIR 41%, Avg. Score 83.6(Eagle April 2022, drove 257 yard p 4, by rolling between 2 front bunkers)

Madison CC:  Still has sand every hole, and FW sand on most still, fastest greens of courses listed.  6126 yds. (14 times) Par 71

Birdies 0.79%, Par 35%, Bogey 41%, GIR 31%, Average Score 87(no better than birdie)

Hemlock Springs:  Some elevation change 5-9 bunkers left,  largest greens of listed, average speed. 6500 yds. par 72, (32 times)

Birdies 3.3%, Par 35%, Bogey 42%,  GIR 30%, Average Score 86.6(no better than birdie), And I have now made several options of playing this course by changing tees so it is 5900-6100 yards).

As vandyland said, I am no hero either. Chisag(no offense), but I think vandy is right.  Your idea of what would make golf too easy for higher handicaps than me, may be a little skewed by your exceedingly low handicap.  I'm not sure why an 18-20+ handicap, especially new, or newer players  would need to play at more than 5600-5700 at the most(AND NOT BE SKOLDED, THREATENED, OR EVEN HUMILIATED ABOUT BAD SHOTS)  OR WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THEM TO PLAY FROM THAT DISTANCE) I'm kidding but it NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND BE INSISTED UPON.  Their  numbers will certainly be worse than mine, and I don't believe in any way that the numbers I have put up are making the game too easy for me.  Certainly for you, but I really don't think for anyone higher than me.  JUST MY TAKE!

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. 

im 265ish off the tee and can get it out to 285-290 occasionally and slightly higher hdcp than vandyland.

I prefer to play from a distance that has me using a majority of my clubs. Most courses around here that’s 6300-6700.

Other than some of our mountain courses anything around 6000 is a lot of short irons and wedges into greens and even some potential driveable par 4s

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. 

im 265ish off the tee and can get it out to 285-290 occasionally and slightly higher hdcp than vandyland.

I prefer to play from a distance that has me using a majority of my clubs. Most courses around here that’s 6300-6700.

Other than some of our mountain courses anything around 6000 is a lot of short irons and wedges into greens and even some potential driveable par 4s

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Just curious as I have no problem with anyone playing shorter tees, but as a low index and 265 off the tee don't you have short irons into virtually every par 4? We have a couple long par 4's that I love playin because I am hitting a hybrid or long iron and making par on those holes is very rewarding. I have played the shorter tees and while fun very now and then it just makes the course too easy. Like flying a bunker on a short par 5 and hitting a downslope leaving me a short iron 2nd shot when just 25 yds back I can't reach that downslope and need a fairway wood, hybrid or 4 iron to reach in two. 

im 265ish off the tee and can get it out to 285-290 occasionally and slightly higher hdcp than vandyland.

I prefer to play from a distance that has me using a majority of my clubs. Most courses around here that’s 6300-6700.

Other than some of our mountain courses anything around 6000 is a lot of short irons and wedges into greens and even some potential driveable par 4s

[Jim Shaw]

so, this thread had me thinking about John Rahms final round at Stadium Course at PGA west last sunday... I did some kitchen math, so bear with me please. Let's say when John is firing on all cylinders, in the dry air in the desert he probably averages 310 off the tee. When I am firing on all cylinders, in the dry air in the desert I am probably averaging 260 off the tee. So John is playing 7100 yd golf course, if I extrapolate 50 yds x 14 fairways (not counting the par 3's) that would be 700 yds. I am thinking, in those conditions with perfect greens, no wind, I could probably break 70 if I played it at 6400 yds. 

So therein lyes the rub... why would I play at 7100 yds and have an excruciatingly painful round when I could play 6400 and possibly enjoy my experience... is anyone going to say "but yeah you played it from 6400 yds?"  

I shot 67 at Toscana in Palm Desert about 6 years ago with a 29 on the front, not once has anyone asked "you shot 29 on the front nine at Toscana, what distance did you play it?" The only think I remember is the scorekeeper said to the group "that is the first time I have ever written a "2" in front of a nine hole number in my life... 

Anyway now my brain is hurting from all the kitchen math....

[chisag]

4 hours ago, stuka44 said:

As vandyland said, I am no hero either. Chisag(no offense), but I think vandy is right.  Your idea of what would make golf too easy for higher handicaps than me, may be a little skewed by your exceedingly low handicap.  I'm not sure why an 18-20+ handicap, especially new, or newer players  would need to play at more than 5600-5700 at the most

 

... I hope you guys understood I was not insinuating anyone should play from farther back. Maybe "too easy" wasn't the best choice of words and I should have said "Still allow you to play variety of clubs ... at least on some holes". There is obviously a reason they make fairway woods, hybrids and long irons and even when I started if I never used those clubs I would feel like I am missing out on the challenge this game offers. Vandy's post said he hit his driver 265, leaving around 90yds on the approach shot so he could use driver, wedges, putter and leave the rest of the clubs at home. Again, if that makes anyone happy and you enjoy playing anyway you want I am not saying you should do anything different. I did preface the post with "just curious" so thanks for the answers! 

[RickyBobby_PR]

41 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I hope you guys understood I was not insinuating anyone should play from farther back. Maybe "too easy" wasn't the best choice of words and I should have said "Still allow you to play variety of clubs ... at least on some holes". There is obviously a reason they make fairway woods, hybrids and long irons and even when I started if I never used those clubs I would feel like I am missing out on the challenge this game offers. Vandy's post said he hit his driver 265, leaving around 90yds on the approach shot so he could use driver, wedges, putter and leave the rest of the clubs at home. Again, if that makes anyone happy and you enjoy playing anyway you want I am not saying you should do anything different. I did preface the post with "just curious" so thanks for the answers! 

Wasn’t thinking that’s what you were insinuating. I was agreeing with your thoughts about playing for the challenge and how that’s fun for you.

I also have no issues with people playing from wherever if that’s fun for them. 

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Wasn’t thinking that’s what you were insinuating. I was agreeing with your thoughts about playing for the challenge and how that’s fun for you.

I also have no issues with people playing from wherever if that’s fun for them. 

 

... Not you RB, I was referring to Vandy and Stuka. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

How many of you play hybrid tees? 

There was a course in Halifax which had a lot of forced carry. It was a fun course and quite a challenge. There were some holes the back tees really weren't that far back and made the hole more enjoyable. Others the backs were just ridiculous so we played one up and it made for a better yet still challenging experience.

Maybe a better way of asking the question is taking a normal course, what length do you look for in a course? Or is your preferred length. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

24 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

How many of you play hybrid tees? 

There was a course in Halifax which had a lot of forced carry. It was a fun course and quite a challenge. There were some holes the back tees really weren't that far back and made the hole more enjoyable. Others the backs were just ridiculous so we played one up and it made for a better yet still challenging experience.

Maybe a better way of asking the question is taking a normal course, what length do you look for in a course? Or is your preferred length. 

There are a few courses i play that have this on the scorecard. It’s usually a mix of the white and blue tees. For those courses is the 3rd and 4th tee box with the tips being 5th tee box. If it’s not on the scorecard I really don’t mix them up

it depends on how I’m feeling that day and who I’m playing with. I’ll usually rotate rounds between white, combo and blue. Basically having to play the course differently each time I play it. 

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

How many of you play hybrid tees? 

There was a course in Halifax which had a lot of forced carry. It was a fun course and quite a challenge. There were some holes the back tees really weren't that far back and made the hole more enjoyable. Others the backs were just ridiculous so we played one up and it made for a better yet still challenging experience.

Maybe a better way of asking the question is taking a normal course, what length do you look for in a course? Or is your preferred length. 

All of our courses have 5 tees and men' league allows use of either blue/white or white/gold. I can and have played blue on all 4 courses but unless I'm cranking drives, it makes a handful of holes tough to reach in regulation.  The b/w combo best matches the yardages (5800-6100) I'd been playing in MT and when we were wintering in Yuma, but I'm finding the white to be more fun on these courses and that is likely because their more challenging in other aspects.  

The only thing I don't like about using combos is that it's one more thing to keep track of .

 

[Stuka44]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

How many of you play hybrid tees? 

There was a course in Halifax which had a lot of forced carry. It was a fun course and quite a challenge. There were some holes the back tees really weren't that far back and made the hole more enjoyable. Others the backs were just ridiculous so we played one up and it made for a better yet still challenging experience.

Maybe a better way of asking the question is taking a normal course, what length do you look for in a course? Or is your preferred length. 

I in fact made my own hybrid tee boxes, scorecard for one course, because I wasn't going to play from 6500 anymore.  Play up on a 3-5 holes and play it around 6100.

[Zugger01]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:30 PM, Noble 90 golf said:

I feel this should be the standard!

I like this idea to a certain extent. With working at a College Golf Course where college students play for free, people who never have played golf before play the tips. I think the diagram should be used as a recommendation not a requirement. But I think the idea is good. My question is how does this course enforce it? Do they require you to give them your Hdcp?

[Kenny B]

4 minutes ago, Zugger01 said:

I like this idea to a certain extent. With working at a College Golf Course where college students play for free, people who never have played golf before play the tips. I think the diagram should be used as a recommendation not a requirement. But I think the idea is good. My question is how does this course enforce it? Do they require you to give them your Hdcp?

LOL...  The first thing I thought; people who have never played golf before don't have a handicap... so looking at the recommended tee options, no handicap could be interpreted as 0 handicap!!!  

[chisag]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

How many of you play hybrid tees? 

There was a course in Halifax which had a lot of forced carry. It was a fun course and quite a challenge. There were some holes the back tees really weren't that far back and made the hole more enjoyable. Others the backs were just ridiculous so we played one up and it made for a better yet still challenging experience.

Maybe a better way of asking the question is taking a normal course, what length do you look for in a course? Or is your preferred length. 

 

... I do a combo tee at both my summer and winter courses. But only several holes. 439, 412 and 426 are all uphill off the tee so little to no roll. If you can carry it 240, you can reach the flat and get some roll out. So moving up and carrying it 220-225 not only lets me reach the flat, I get some roll so total can be a 50yd difference. Having a mid iron in depending on the wind compared to a hybrid or 5 wood when I can't see the green make the hole much more playable but still challenging. Another 430 yd par has a downslope about 230 off the tee so I play those tees instead of moving up. 

... That said in a normal winter it can get hard and fast so I do get some uphill roll on those long par 4's and I play them without moving up. 

[funkyjudge]

On 12/27/2022 at 7:36 PM, GaryF said:

By your description, one minute per four golfers is saved per hole which equals 18 minutes per round.  Somewhere in your math, you converted 15 sec/Golfer/hole to 1 min/golfer/hole which converts to 72 min per round.  Struggling to add slows the game too (jk!). 

Another aspect that slows the pace are having one or more players hit multiple, multiple mulligan tee shots, and looking for lost balls. We have a limit of 3 min for a lost ball.    
 

There should be no mulligans, period! Provisional balls are a different story, and if there is the slightest shred of doubt, golfers should ALWAYS hit a provisional ball if they think that their ball may be OB, lost or in a penalty area. Otherwise, there are no re-dos in golf!!!

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

There should be no mulligans, period! Provisional balls are a different story, and if there is the slightest shred of doubt, golfers should ALWAYS hit a provisional ball if they think that their ball may be OB, lost or in a penalty area. 

A provisional ball isn't allowed if a ball is in a penalty area;  it is against the rules 

Rule 18.3  Provisional Ball

a. When Provisional Ball Is Allowed

If your ball might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds, to save time you may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance.

[funkyjudge]

Just now, cnosil said:

A provisional ball isn't allowed if a ball is in a penalty area;  it is against the rules 

Rule 18.3  Provisional Ball

a. When Provisional Ball Is Allowed

If your ball might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds, to save time you may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance.

True; I knew that. My mistake in the original post (now corrected).

[chisag]

4 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

There should be no mulligans, period! Provisional balls are a different story, and if there is the slightest shred of doubt, golfers should ALWAYS hit a provisional ball if they think that their ball may be OB, lost or in a penalty area. Otherwise, there are no re-dos in golf!!!

 

... Com'on Doug you are starting to sound like Party Pooper Dave.   Most of the higher index Am's I play with will take a "mulligan" on the first hole and first hole only. I compare it to moving ball out of a divot. While I take pride in the challenge most I play with just move to out.