Mandatory tee boxes?

[TBS]

1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Yes, and Yes

But .......  Based on my handicap, I should be all the way back. Getting close to mid 60's in age, past injuries and such it would not be enjoyable from back there. My distance off the tee is only 220 /230 and a nutted one might get to 240. Also very important is my handicap is based on tees that are not back there. 

When I go to a new course and knowing what my handicap is based on, and what distances that is from, I pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  If you have an established handicap, then you should know the general range of the course ratings, slope and distance this is based on. Then you should look at the course you are about to play and pick a set of tees that is closest to it.  You can get close in distance but it's luck of the draw on slope rating. A bit more slope is a bit more of a challenge.     

Hopping in late here. Few thoughts -

First, golf is for fun. Play whatever tees you want to have fun. As long as you play fast and respect the course I don't care. There are matchplay courses that have zero tee boxes. Tee it up wherever you want. Ohoopee and another course in the NE (can't remember the name). Tom Coyne visited and had a fun reflection on how he doesn't like it because you can't add your round to GIN but he also likes it because its about fun. 

Second thought - I've played this course plus a lot of the other courses on the RTJ trail. These courses are designed with clear landing areas. Typically 120-170 yards out. I have played a number of scrambles where I play a tee up. I have found that it makes the course play much harder. Landing areas are much smaller, slopes instead of flat lies, OB, awkward yardages, fairway ends and second shot in rough, etc. if you choose to hit driver. Otherwise you can play hybrids and irons all day. So I do think that there is some thought to be given to course design.

 

Final thought - why do pros hate a 300 yard par 3 but love 300 yard par 4s if the average score is not too different. 

Short Par 4s

Riv hole 10 - avg score 3.88 (2021)

TPC River Highlands hole 15 - avg score 3.85 (2022)

Long Par 3s

Oakmont hole 8 - avg score 3.3 (2016)

Ocean Course hole 17 - 3.3 (2012)

[LICC]

1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

I play with LOTS of high handicap players (16-24 handicappers) who hit their drivers 250-275 yards ON AVERAGE

There is no way a 24 handicap is averaging 275 yard drives.

[funkyjudge]

I play with the guy every week.  He hits as many 300 yard drives as he hits 250 yarders, yet he generally shoots in the low 100s.

[LICC]

4 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Do you consider yourself and me (we are very close in handicap level) to be "high handicap golfers"?  If you are talking about 20+ handicappers, then I agree with you, but not a lot of 14-15 handicappers are nearly as inconsistent distance-wise as you suggest. 

A 15 handicap is about an average golfer, and not likely to be able to consistently hit fairways with driver.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, TBS said:

First, golf is for fun. Play whatever tees you want to have fun.

High handicappers playing the back tees are reducing the fun of those playing behind them. It's disrespectful. 

[LICC]

2 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I play with the guy every week.  He hits as many 300 yard drives as he hits 250 yarders, yet he generally shoots in the low 100s.

And how many drives does he slice or pull hook out of play?

[funkyjudge]

2 minutes ago, LICC said:

There is no way a 24 handicap is averaging 275 yard drives.

This guy’s USGA Handicap Index is in the high 21s, and he’s generally playing to a 24 handicap at most of the courses that we play on our winter golf tour. He also hits a 9 iron about as far as I hit a 6 or 7 iron — and that is playing in cold winter conditions where the ball doesn’t travel as far.

[funkyjudge]

1 minute ago, LICC said:

And how many drives does he slice or pull hook out of play?

Maybe 1 out of 7 or 8; not necessarily out of play but into the woods or in bad areas where it’s just about impossible to recover — and he doesn’t slice the ball; if he misses, it’s generally a hook or pull-hook. On a tight course, he’s in trouble, but so am I all too often.

[funkyjudge]

52 minutes ago, LICC said:

High handicappers playing the back tees are reducing the fun of those playing behind them. It's disrespectful. 

On that I agree with you 100%

[funkyjudge]

54 minutes ago, LICC said:

A 15 handicap is about an average golfer, and not likely to be able to consistently hit fairways with driver.

Well, that should describe both of us, I guess. I'm certainly guilty in many of my rounds, unless I'm teeing off with my 4-wood. On the fairly rare occasions when I'm hitting lots of fairways, I don't shoot like I'm anywhere near a 15 handicap, but it's those rounds when I am driving like a 20+ handicap golfer that kill me.

[LICC]

22 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Maybe 1 out of 7 or 8; not necessarily out of play but into the woods or in bad areas where it’s just about impossible to recover — and he doesn’t slice the ball; if he misses, it’s generally a hook or pull-hook. On a tight course, he’s in trouble, but so am I all too often.

Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. 

[Stuka44]

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. 

I would agree.  The trouble is normally that this type of individual does hit it 275 but has no idea where it is going.  But because of that one great one, he is convinced that playing forward, and hitting less than driver off the tee, will be too short, and make the game too "easy" for him.  Hence everyone has to wait for him to hack out of the trees hole after hole.

[RickyBobby_PR]

22 hours ago, LICC said:

There is no way a 24 handicap is averaging 275 yard drives.

 

32 minutes ago, LICC said:

Someone who can average 275 yard drives and keep them in play 7 out of 8 times is not a 24 handicap. No way. 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

[LICC]

42 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

No, they can't.

As @stuka44 said, people see one or two great drives and think they are averaging that, and aren't counting all the pulls and slices. If someone can be that good to keep the ball in play 7 out of 8 times with 275 yard drives, they have a very good golf swing. Even if their short game and putting isn't very good, they won't be that outstanding in swinging a driver and so awful with everything else that they are a 24. 275 yards is a monster drive. Top 1%. To be able to do that 7 out of 8 times needs skill and athletic ability. 

[Grand Stranded]

On 1/15/2023 at 2:50 PM, panhndl said:

Did you read anything I typed?  I enjoy league.  I joined to meet some other golfers in my town and found quite a few folks I knew but didn’t realize they golfed.  I enjoy the competition and the opportunity to golf more under a little pressure.  It’s also the only league I can join.  And my point of bringing up league had nothing to do with changing league.  It had everything to do with the discussion around proper tees for a golfers’ ability.  
 

You’re fixating on something that really isn’t central to the discussion of tees and golfers choosing poor ones for their ability.

Yeah.  That wasn’t my point at all but the discussion around league play seems to have taken on a life of its own.  It wasn’t my intent steer the conversation that direction but here we are.  Sorry about that.

 

League play seems to be a sacred cow.

Amazing how every person who has replied are misinterpreting what you meant to convey.

I wonder why that’s happening?

[funkyjudge]

5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

RickyBobby,

EXACTLY!  I posted just that a few days ago, but nobody else seemed to have paid attention.  Inside of 120 yards, this guy's game is very poor, and inside of 80-90 yards it is absolutely atrocious. He also 3 or 4-putts about 8 to 10 holes in an "average" round, and on bad days he 3-putts almost every hole!

[funkyjudge]

5 hours ago, LICC said:

No, they can't.

As @stuka44 said, people see one or two great drives and think they are averaging that, and aren't counting all the pulls and slices. If someone can be that good to keep the ball in play 7 out of 8 times with 275 yard drives, they have a very good golf swing. Even if their short game and putting isn't very good, they won't be that outstanding in swinging a driver and so awful with everything else that they are a 24. 275 yards is a monster drive. Top 1%. To be able to do that 7 out of 8 times needs skill and athletic ability. 

Who said that he hits driver on every par 4 and par 5 hole?  He hits a 3-iron off the tee as often as he hits his driver and he hits the 3-iron at least 225 yards.  He used to carry a 2-iron, but I kept telling him that he should not even be carrying a 3-iron, much less 2-iron.  This year and the end of last year, he has proven me wrong, by hitting the fairway a lot with that 3-iron.

He still cannot pitch, chip, or putt worth a damn!

Edited January 20 by funkyjudge

[funkyjudge]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Sure they can. It’s called having a terrible short game and putting. 
 

Just because a person hits the ball a long way doesn’t mean they are a good golfer. Lots of those guys have no feel or touch and end up chunking chips and pitches and have no speed control on greens. 

I know it doesn’t fit in your golf view but it is possible 

I can give you two examples. When I started playing I was 260 off the tee but had now short game skills and 3 putted a lot. Had several lost balls a round because when you are long and wrong the ball is gone.

Another was a guy I played with during my military days. He used a cross handed grip. It allows him to hit the ball far off the tee but when it game to inside 150 he was erratic e with distance and rarely hit a green in regulation and had trouble with chips. Also 3 putted once every 4-5 holes 

I used to play with a WLD competitor. He didn't always hit the fairways with his 360-yard drives, but he often drove the greens on short to medium length par-4s.  His short game may have been the absolute worst that I ever saw.

One time, when he won the long drive prize in a tournament that he and I were both playing in, his prize (donated by me) was a custom-fit set of wedges (the closest to the pin winner won a driver, also fitted and built by me). A couple months later when I played a round of golf with him, I asked how the wedges were working out and he said "I still can't hit wedges to save my life".  Sadly, he was correct!

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, LICC said:

No, they can't.

As @stuka44 said, people see one or two great drives and think they are averaging that, and aren't counting all the pulls and slices. If someone can be that good to keep the ball in play 7 out of 8 times with 275 yard drives, they have a very good golf swing. Even if their short game and putting isn't very good, they won't be that outstanding in swinging a driver and so awful with everything else that they are a 24. 275 yards is a monster drive. Top 1%. To be able to do that 7 out of 8 times needs skill and athletic ability. 

You really need to get out and play with other people. Your logic just isn’t good.

 

12 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

Who said that he hits driver on every par 4 and par 5 hole?  He hits a 3-iron off the tee as often as he hits his driver and he hits the 3-iron at least 225 yards.  He used to carry a 2-iron, but I kept telling him that he should not even be carrying a 3-iron, much less 2-iron.  This year and the end of last year, he has proven me wron, by hitting the fairway a lot with that 3-iron.

He still cannot pitch, chip, or putt worth a damn!

Exactly. People assume driver is hit on every par 4 and 5 or that it can’t be possible for a high handicap to not top a ball mishit one short.

Guys that play hockey or baseball tend to have good hand eye coordination and hit the ball pretty decent. But they also struggle when they can’t go all out like driver. 

[funkyjudge]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You really need to get out and play with other people. Your logic just isn’t good.

 

Exactly. People assume driver is hit on every par 4 and 5 or that it can’t be possible for a high handicap to not top a ball mishit one short.

Guys that play hockey or baseball tend to have good hand eye coordination and hit the ball pretty decent. But they also struggle when they can’t go all out like driver. 

AMEN! I played baseball until I was 36, including two years in the Puerto Rican Winter League, and didn’t start playing golf until I retired from baseball. I love going all-out with my driver, but I have not always been good with those little “finesse shots “.