Confession Corner - Admit Your Golf Equipment Biases

[GolfSpy AFG]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:53 AM, Golfspy_Lukes said:

I think we need to re-look at what I meant by bias.  I am not referring to what necessarily fits you best.  I am talking about completely non-scientific or performance related reasons to why we like or don't like certain brands.

I don't prefer Sun Mountain bags because I don't like their stand mechanism.  I am biased against OGIO because they are owned by Callaway and just don't want to own any Callaway-affiliated products.  If sun mountain re-did their stand mechanism, I would consider their bags.  There is nothing OGIO could do (aside from breaking off from Callaway) to make me want to by an OGIO bag.

Same here.  When I got my JPX 919 Forged it was very much a toss-up numbers wise with Apex Pro's...I was all too eager to go Mizuno and avoid bagging a Callaway.

That said, I game an Apex Pro hybrid...smaller profile hybrid that's not a hook machine.  If the numbers say it's best, I'll game it.

[Subdiver1]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:04 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve had the p790 along with a couple other brands similar style irons and never had an issue holding greens. It really comes down to the person hitting them. Someone who already has low spin is more thank likely have too low spin with the p790 thus holding the green

That is a good point. When I got fitted into them it was because my spin with a set of Mizuno MP-57s with TT S300 shafts had gone through the roof (like 9000 rpm 7-iron) and I was losing like 1-1.5 club in distance. I am now in the P790s with Oban CT115 shaft (the runner up were the forged Apex irons). Prior to that spin issue with the Mizzie's I hit them like I hit the P790s now. Again, shaft and head combinations have gotten so extensive you could probably fit a good player into a flat block of Ti with the right shaft and the could play that.  Good conversation.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Subdiver1
Forgot note

[Subdiver1]

Not a Callaway fan at all. Currently playing P790s and when I got fitted for them the forged Apex Pro were runner up in dispersion and distance. If they had won out I would have been hard pressed to put them in my bag, but I was ready to give then a chance as I watched the numbers stack up. I would definitely define that (my) resistance as bias. Other than that Top Flight balls fir sure. I think it was the Gamer(?) that was supposed to be a tour quality ball, and I know Lee Trevino once played TF balls, but I cannot get over how the old TF balls were like hitting rocks (or maybe marbles).  So, I'd say I have a negative bias toward anything Callaway or Top Flight.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Subdiver1 said:

That is a good point. When I got fitted into them it was because my spin with a set of Mizuno MP-57s with TT S300 shafts had gone through the roof (like 9000 rpm 7-iron) and I was losing like 1-1.5 club in distance. I am now in the P790s with Oban CT115 shaft (the runner up were the forged Apex irons). Prior to that spin issue with the Mizzie's I hit them like I hit the P790s now. Again, shaft and head combinations have gotten so extensive you could probably fit a good player into a flat block of Ti with the right shaft and the could play that.  Good conversation.

for sure. The shaft is going to affect dynamic loft and that’s going to affect launch and spin.

It was crazy in my pxg fitting that Nippon and kbs I just couldn’t get along with them and the px 6.0 was a better fit. What I’ve learned in my recent firings is in higher spinning iron heads I need to be in px 6.0 or dg s300 or s400.

in some of the lower spinning heads it really varies on how the balance of the club is. In 716 cbs kbs $taper worked fine but in p790 a no go.

[Golf Dawg]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:12 AM, TylorJudd said:

Definitely against visors. They could tell me they have the ability to read the green for me but if they look like a visor it just ain't happening. It's like sandals with socks, you can't have both. No hat or hat, pick one or or the other. 

I’m too bald on top for a visor, these days, but I do rock the bucket!

[MWL_9]

I'm willing to hit whatever works/looks best, but I can't get myself to buy anything PXG.  I'd just hear "KABOOM BABY" every time I look in my bag and saw a PXG club 

[GolfSpy AFG]

5 minutes ago, MWL_9 said:

I'm willing to hit whatever works/looks best, but I can't get myself to buy anything PXG.  I'd just hear "KABOOM BABY" every time I look in my bag and saw a PXG club 

That's one that I can't really make up my mind about.  There "premium" pricing was off-putting, but then they started pricing product at the other end of the spectrum.  And their veteran pricing program is great too.  MGS testing never really justifies the premium price points for their high-end stuff though.

[GolfSpy BOS]

1 hour ago, MWL_9 said:

I'm willing to hit whatever works/looks best, but I can't get myself to buy anything PXG.  I'd just hear "KABOOM BABY" every time I look in my bag and saw a PXG club 

I actually make my brother yell that out loud every time he actually hits a good drive. (Don't worry.... its rare!)

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

That's one that I can't really make up my mind about.  There "premium" pricing was off-putting, but then they started pricing product at the other end of the spectrum.  And their veteran pricing program is great too.  MGS testing never really justifies the premium price points for their high-end stuff though.

 

... I hear ya on that, LOUD and clear! I hesitate to call them Marketing Genius's but their commercials certainly got everyones attention. Their insanely high prices kept everyones attention. Then dropping prices to below other OEMs even got some haters attention. I keep peeking at their 0311T Gen4 model since they came out. They look soooooo good at address and hitting them into a net, they felt awesome. Thankfully the Cobra King Tours will occupy my bag this year and save me from actually playing (Gulp!) some PXG T irons. 

[chisag]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:12 AM, TylorJudd said:

Definitely against visors. They could tell me they have the ability to read the green for me but if they look like a visor it just ain't happening. It's like sandals with socks, you can't have both. No hat or hat, pick one or or the other. 

 

... Ahhhhhh youngsters and "fashion". I loved my visor when my hair was thick and it was hot. Nothing like trapping in the heat back when baseball caps didn't have the modern ventilation they do now. Plus ... Fred Couples wore them!  

[GolfSpy BOS]

4 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Ahhhhhh youngsters and "fashion". I loved my visor when my hair was thick and it was hot. Nothing like trapping in the heat back when baseball caps didn't have the modern ventilation they do now. Plus ... Fred Couples wore them!  

When I grow up I want to be like Fred Couples.... sure everyone wants Rory or Tigers swing.... Bryson's power... DJs wife.... 

Give me that smooth and effortless power all day to grow old with! 

[TylorJudd]

11 hours ago, Golf Dawg said:

I’m too bald on top for a visor, these days, but I do rock the bucket!

I rock a big flat brim hat too!

[TylorJudd]

8 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Ahhhhhh youngsters and "fashion". I loved my visor when my hair was thick and it was hot. Nothing like trapping in the heat back when baseball caps didn't have the modern ventilation they do now. Plus ... Fred Couples wore them!  

This is my choosen headwear, best of everything! 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

This is my choosen headwear, best of everything! 

 

... Lots of workers here rock a hat like that and I am guessing they know something about the sun. I like a little more style so I wear a Gray or White Walter Hagen chapeau you see in this photo as I roll in a 40 footer:






 

[TylorJudd]

When it's 36-42 degrees here, a regular ball cap doesn't cut it. I am thinking about something similar to what you have there, the tour Aussie hat. Can't tell if they're the same thing or not

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

When it's 36-42 degrees here, a regular ball cap doesn't cut it. I am thinking about something similar to what you have there, the tour Aussie hat. Can't tell if they're the same thing or not

 

... Personal preference of course but I have 11 sun hats and once I found these Hagens I don't wear any of my others. It is huge and I love that. Although once in a while I may wear my black one when my ensemble calls for it.  And only $29.99 so a bargain and then some. 

[Merlin1313]

I used to be a HUGE TM fan. They lost me (Irons) after the RAC LT (though I did try the TM MC and CB irons later), and I found the Callaway X Forged Irons and the FT-3 driver in the mid/late 2000s. I've tried a lot of different makes/models, but I've  never really been in the Cobra or Ping camps (except for my Scottsdale putter which was magical). I admit to having a Callaway bias because when you find something that fits - if it ain't broke - don't fix it.

[Subdiver1]

On 1/21/2023 at 3:51 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

for sure. The shaft is going to affect dynamic loft and that’s going to affect launch and spin.

It was crazy in my pxg fitting that Nippon and kbs I just couldn’t get along with them and the px 6.0 was a better fit. What I’ve learned in my recent firings is in higher spinning iron heads I need to be in px 6.0 or dg s300 or s400.

in some of the lower spinning heads it really varies on how the balance of the club is. In 716 cbs kbs $taper worked fine but in p790 a no go.

Too funny that you said all that.  I don't want to hijack the thread so I'll try to tie it all together, but your comments and our experience coupled with this PXG Ball review by MGS actually all falls in line with the "bias" topic;

I was just reading the PXG Ball review and personally I found it laughable to see all the negative comments (read bias) toward PXG.  I say this for two reasons; the first because of the topic of this forum coupled tied together with the timing of this Ball Review.  Second because your experience with the PXG fitting nearly mirrors mine. So, I don't understand all the vociferous verbal bias.  As noted earlier I am currently playing P790s with CT-115 shafts; I really have no major "need" to get another fitting other than curiosity that was piqued when several low single digit HCP players I play with recently switched to their Gen5 driver or their irons; discussion about their decision to switch made me take an interest in the product.  I would think that any objective golfer could agree that when a steady 2 (who holds that number pretty much only playing once a week from April - October) is impressed enough by the performance to switch from what have been playing, the rest of us hackers should probably at least make a note?  So anyway, while I was in Orlando last month playing some events I decided to do a fitting.  Seems our experiences nearly mirror each other.  The fitter did note that it would have been nice to have my shaft in their stable to fit on their club to see what the performance delta was, if any, to set a baseline.  I am going back for a follow up and it would be interesting to see how the same shaft performs in both heads, head-to-head as it were.  As you say, maybe the head design results in higher spin than the P790s so the shaft change makes sense.  

All of that being stated I'll pivot back toward topic of the thread; I initially didn't have a positive or negative bias toward PXG.   The commercials were just that, commercials; just like Callaway and Titleist etc. After going into the Orlando PXG I'm not saying that I am jumping blindly, feet first into the PXG purist pool, but I am willing to give it a chance -

Conclusion - my negative bias toward Callaway was from early negative experience, my early positive bias toward Titleist was from early positive experience; I have no - or + bias toward PXG and the comments made in the Ball Review just got to show how often bias is not always experience based, and that is a shame. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Companies that do video series and such like what Titleist just did definitely give them a boost in my mind. They move up the latter in my preferred oems. 

[StrikurJim]

  I admit to having a bias with irons.  I am a big fan of Forged and an equal fan of Mizuno.  As for wedges I am a fan forged the same as irons but I do not exclusively like Mizuno wedges.  Therefore I have a Callaway wedge.  I would expect that some of you think that it’s more to do with something other than feel.  It is feel, 100% feel.  During my last fitting the only club that came close was Titleist CB Forged.  The fact that I gained a few extra yards with the Mizunos closed the deal.  With woods I really believe that the shaft makes more of a difference than the head.  All things being equal, the right shaft in similar set ups with different heads usually works out for me.  Then it’s simple math and looks.  Putters are more about how square and accurate I am.  Sure the Cameron’s feel great, but so do many others.  It’s a try before you buy like the rest of the equipment.  So, bring on more Demo Days!!!

[billybogey]

Kind of Laff at some of the Comments. Especially those who think the Golfer is the Driver. Most of the Golfers that I play with really need New Glasses  both for use on the Road & on the Course. And most of them think they are Legends in their Own Mind!!

Guess that is why at the end of the Day I try & keep it straight & wish I played Titleist or Ping's, & go "Ah Ching, Ah Ching !!".

Cheers.

[GPS111]

I'm open to anything that feels good and does what I need it to do.  Evidence the thread of how many brands are in your bag (5 for me.  6 if you count both putters).  But I do have a bias in I don't like Callaway.  Not sure why but just won't pick one up (except for Odyssey - but that is a Callaway brand purchase, not a true Callaway).  Second is any hybrid and it doesn't matter what brand.  I always used to hit long irons well.  My game suffered when hybrids went in the bag.  I never could work them.  As I got older the long irons were no longer an answer and hybrids did not pick up the slack.  In the end I went with the Jack Nicklaus advice from a long time ago about replacing longer irons with shorter woods.  Now I carry down to a nine wood and have never looked back.  Those I have the swing for and can hit.

[vandyland]

I like to think that I am very accepting and I want to use the best performing equipment but there is some aspect of aesthetics that I can't get past. I don't mind playing a game improvement looking iron and I don't wring my hands over offset or toplines but the most recent example I have that was an expensive lesson is I had a bias against Maltby clubs. For one, I can't really test them (even though they are quite inexpensive to just buy a single club) at a golf shop but I have always been intrigued by them. I love the way the DBMs look (see below) but I already have an old set of Ping Eye 2s that I *assume* would feel and perform relatively similar (I could be waaaaay off on that, someone correct me if I am wrong). 

So when it came time to get a little more forgiveness at the top end of my bag, I started looking at Maltby and everything brought me to the KE4 Max (see below). They seemed to have the profile and forgiveness I was looking for in a 4-6 iron BUT, I just couldn't get down with how they looked...which is so stupid. They just kind had a bit of a "starter pack" set vibe to them. BUT WHO CARES? IT SHOULD JUST BE ABOUT PERFORMANCE!

So, instead I went to New Level which I had almost bought several years ago when they had their MODB-1 iron (which is a bit of a precusor to their driving iron and new Gi22 iron). I demoed the New Level Gi22 and it is great so no worries, right? Well, between the time I demoed it and ordered the club...New Level raised their prices ~50% on this club. Literally from Dec 22 to Jan 23. No change to the actual club! So, now I felt committed to buy this club (see below) and all based on looks I feel like. I am tempted to try the KE4 Max but then what would I do with my sunk cost into 4-6 irons in Gi22? Blast my vanity!

 

TLDR: I balked at the looks of the Maltby KE4 Max and probably cost myself $250 just to have a different aesthetic. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by vandyland

[GPS111]

16 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I like to think that I am very accepting and I want to use the best performing equipment but there is some aspect of aesthetics that I can't get past. I don't mind playing a game improvement looking iron and I don't wring my hands over offset or toplines but the most recent example I have that was an expensive lesson is I had a bias against Maltby clubs. For one, I can't really test them (even though they are quite inexpensive to just buy a single club) at a golf shop but I have always been intrigued by them. I love the way the DBMs look (see below) but I already have an old set of Ping Eye 2s that I *assume* would feel and perform relatively similar (I could be waaaaay off on that, someone correct me if I am wrong). 

So when it came time to get a little more forgiveness at the top end of my bag, I started looking at Maltby and everything brought me to the KE4 Max (see below). They seemed to have the profile and forgiveness I was looking for in a 4-6 iron BUT, I just couldn't get down with how they looked...which is so stupid. They just kind had a bit of a "starter pack" set vibe to them. BUT WHO CARES? IT SHOULD JUST BE ABOUT PERFORMANCE!

So, instead I went to New Level which I had almost bought several years ago when they had their MODB-1 iron (which is a bit of a precusor to their driving iron and new Gi22 iron). I demoed the New Level Gi22 and it is great so no worries, right? Well, between the time I demoed it and ordered the club...New Level raised their prices ~50% on this club. Literally from Dec 22 to Jan 23. No change to the actual club! So, now I felt committed to buy this club (see below) and all based on looks I feel like. I am tempted to try the KE4 Max but then what would I do with my sunk cost into 4-6 irons in Gi22? Blast my vanity!

 

TLDR: I balked at the looks of the Maltby KE4 Max and probably cost myself $250 just to have a different aesthetic. 

If considering Maltby clubs take a look as the TS-2.  They leverage some of the thin face/poly filled head technology.  Similar to TM P790 and others.  More traditional look as well 

[T-Bone]

Mizuno -  Been heavily biased towards these over the years.   Played MP33 irons through most of the 2000s and picked up a set of the MP25 which have been in my bag until this week.

Titleist -  Just picked up 5-PW of the T100 irons.  I've played Vokey wedges for over a dozen years and had a Scotty in the bag the last 20.   Owned one 915 driver years ago and wish I never would have gotten rid of it after it was gone

TaylorMade -  Played the Tour Preferred irons in high school and loved them, definitely forced me to become better.  Also played the R9 irons for 4-5 years.  Currently playing an M5 driver.  It's been a good one for me but leaning towards trying a new Titleist.   I carry a 3 SIM hybrid from them but don't particularly love it. 

Ping -  Played Zing 2 irons in college and early 2000s.  Easiest clubs to hit I've ever owned.  Have a few putters.  Really been a fan of their newer irons, specifically the forged versions

Callaway - I have a few of the hybrids in my bag and they just set up really well for me and I was able to get decent deals on them.   Just set up well for my eye.   Never hit their irons or wedges

Cleveland -  Played their wedges exclusively for years before moving to Vokey.  Still think they make a nice wedge but I'm with Vokey for good. 

I view everyone else as a step behind.  I do really like the Srixon irons.  Play with a guy regularly that has the Sub 70s and he swears by them.   At this point in my life everything seems to be leaning towards getting into the Titleist stuff but definitely haven't been afraid to mix it up the last 10 years or so. 

[vandyland]

10 minutes ago, GPS111 said:

If considering Maltby clubs take a look as the TS-2.  They leverage some of the thin face/poly filled head technology.  Similar to TM P790 and others.  More traditional look as well

I saw the TS-2 and liked the look of them but thought I probably needed even MORE help down in the lower irons. I would probably play the TS-2 in the shorter irons but I want something very helpful in the 4-6 irons. 

[WiTerp50]

Around 2012 I decided to take up golf seriously. Handicap - over 60 and LH. Titleist and Ping were the only ones promoting fittings with full line LH options   After being led over to the corner to the one LH Senior set in stock, I knew I had to find a pro shop to help me as an outlier in golf merchandising. Between the G15 and AP1 irons, I elected the AP1s for the appearance. Otherwise equal. Been using Titleist ever since. Would go with Ping if I had to. The 430 irons no longer look like boat anchors. 
Anything sold in a 6-8 club iron set is immediately off the table. Anything not available within 25 miles for an actual outdoor fitting is off as well. I can use that as an excuse to not look at PXG. Not to mention 0211’s aren’t that cheap if you don’t use the stock shaft. Which at 73, I never do with any club.  

[revkev]

I'm just seeing this - work has been a killer of late.  I have to say that I don't know that bias is necessarily wrong.  All of the OEMs make great stuff but they have different theories as to what makes their stuff work and those theories work better for certain swings.  Brand x may well fit my swing better than brand y - that doesn't mean that brand x is better than brand y just that it is for my particular swing type.

For the longest time Ping woods have work well with my swing as have Titleist, Mizuno and Taylor Made (Adams used to.)  Cobra and Callaway drivers never have worked out for me which is too bad because I would love to game either one.  

 

Since I've had success with those woods the normal is going to be that I try Ping, Taylor Made, Titleist first and it is unlike that I will get past those tried and true brands (for me) without finding something that works.  If that's bias then I have it.

 

With irons I know that I need a bit more sole because of my AoA.  Seemingly any iron will do so I go for price which has led me to several iterations of Wilson irons - so there my bias is financial - they don't really matter all that much to how I cobble the game together anyway.  My handicap has been single digit almost regardless of what iron that I've gamed and since the day of the Ping Eye 2 irons have always been about price for me.

 

Wedges are huge, I had always gravitated towards Ping until the day that I won a MGS contest and got two SCORs.  I still have two SCORS in my bag along with a Ping.  Wedges are huge for me and I do not care to change what has worked.  Every time I do I end up with those three wedges back in the bag - they probably are there for life.

I've had three putters in 20 years, only because I got chosen for two MGS tests - I'd still have the bargain basket one that I bought 20 years ago for $60 and then spent some money having it refit, if I hadn't of been selected for those tests.  I will not change putters unless someone is giving me one that fits my eye and my stroke.  I won a bettenardi once and gave it to a charity auction.  

 

So call it bias or preference and going with what works or whatever that's what I have and why.  Nice thread...

[Subdiver1]

On 2/8/2023 at 1:39 PM, revkev said:

I'm just seeing this - work has been a killer of late.  I have to say that I don't know that bias is necessarily wrong.  All of the OEMs make great stuff but they have different theories as to what makes their stuff work and those theories work better for certain swings.  Brand x may well fit my swing better than brand y - that doesn't mean that brand x is better than brand y just that it is for my particular swing type.

For the longest time Ping woods have work well with my swing as have Titleist, Mizuno and Taylor Made (Adams used to.)  Cobra and Callaway drivers never have worked out for me which is too bad because I would love to game either one.  

 

Since I've had success with those woods the normal is going to be that I try Ping, Taylor Made, Titleist first and it is unlike that I will get past those tried and true brands (for me) without finding something that works.  If that's bias then I have it.

 

With irons I know that I need a bit more sole because of my AoA.  Seemingly any iron will do so I go for price which has led me to several iterations of Wilson irons - so there my bias is financial - they don't really matter all that much to how I cobble the game together anyway.  My handicap has been single digit almost regardless of what iron that I've gamed and since the day of the Ping Eye 2 irons have always been about price for me.

 

Wedges are huge, I had always gravitated towards Ping until the day that I won a MGS contest and got two SCORs.  I still have two SCORS in my bag along with a Ping.  Wedges are huge for me and I do not care to change what has worked.  Every time I do I end up with those three wedges back in the bag - they probably are there for life.

I've had three putters in 20 years, only because I got chosen for two MGS tests - I'd still have the bargain basket one that I bought 20 years ago for $60 and then spent some money having it refit, if I hadn't of been selected for those tests.  I will not change putters unless someone is giving me one that fits my eye and my stroke.  I won a bettenardi once and gave it to a charity auction.  

 

So call it bias or preference and going with what works or whatever that's what I have and why.  Nice thread...

I enjoyed reading your comments.   But would like to counter your opening point.  

The difference between liking something because it works for you AND you like it and bias that one is objective, the other subjective (rational vs. irrational; evidence based vs, emotional).  Bias is distinctly adverse because it closes us off to options that may be beneficial but, denies those opportunities based on emotion; bias is rarely connected to any quantifiable data; in some cases bias is actually counter to quantifiable data - again emotion based.  Based on your statements here I would offer that you actually sound fairly unbiased (maybe a little situationally subjective) because when addressing your preference in drivers you state a preference for the brands you have had success with, BUT if you could find something that works you might be open; the subjectivity has you start and even lean toward those brands, but you are objectively open to concrete evidence that may be able to tear you away.  Hard core bias would prevent you from even trying; like with those SCOR wedges, even as a prize; they would have wound up in someone else's bag or on Ebay. Therein lies the counter that bias IS at least detrimental if not actually "wrong;" I'm sure we could go back and forth all day long discussing the semantics of anything being "wrong," situationally (we can, and often do, justify or rationalize almost anything. But that is a different thread).  Anyway, your impartiality probably serves you well in your game and helps keep your handicap low; some of us more obstinate (biased) players feel the need to ignore rationale shot choices and end up with a big number here and that drive an otherwise stellar round into obscurity because we allow subjectivity (emotional desire or inclination to go through the trees with some heroic approach or going for the green on a 315 yard par 4 with water protection) to inhibit the impartial judgement (fact) that that trees are 99% solid and the middle of the fairway offers a better chance at par than going deeper into the trees or duck-hooking an over cooked drive do.

Definition: Bias

bī′əs, noun

1. A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric.

2. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

3. An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.

Have a great weekend.

[revkev]

@Subdiver1- fair enough. And thanks for the compliment.I did end up gaming a Mizuno driver for three seasons when I had a grand agnostic fitting. That stupid thing ooojed like a pancake and sounded worse. Played the best golf of my life with it. 
 

Are or were you actually on subs? My son was a Nuke. 8 year veteran. Your answer was reminiscent of one he might give.