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i20 or 712AP1 irons ?


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Guys, pls your thoughts and/or experiences on next issue.

 

I'm playing off 18 handicap, practice a lot, take lessons regularly. But due some "accident" I'm now recovering from skull and braintrauma (100%

recovery expected in about 1 year though). Had 3 months downtime, first active month was "relearning" to play, because all "feeling" in my body and movements

changed strangely enough. Now I'm building up again, and it's going ok-ish, allthough I can't play my handicap yet. But if health allows that won't

take too much longer I hope. Now, I'm aiming to shave something off the handicap this year. And since I've been playing my Mizuno MX-25's for 3 years,

I think it's time to treat myself to new irons, not that I need new ones, I just WANT them ;-)

 

And to make it as easy as possible for myself, I'm aiming for irons that are as forgiving or more forgiving then my MX-25's (very forgiving players iron

or a reasonably goodlooking game improvement iron). Let me specify. I'm looking for a head that is consistant, consistant with heel toe misses, and

does not have a springy face that adds 10 yard when you pure it. So I suppose that has to be a head wich is not too small heel to toe, has some perimeter

weighting and a reasonable sole width. I do not need help to get the ball in the air though as my ballflight is allready fairly high.

 

Tried and tested several heads and shafts on the driving range (no fitting). (r11, burner 2.0, razr x, 710ap2, i20, anser, nicklaus, 710cb ...)

And the one that sticks out the most at this time are the Ping I20's. They are half a club longer than my mx-25's, but have slightly worse dispersion distance wise (Possibly down to the stock regular cfs shaft, fitting will fix that I presume), but better/more forgiving turf interaction for me.

 

NOW, last weekend I thought about the Titleist AP1, but I have no access to them to try them. Am I correct in thinking they are quite a bit more

forgiving than the i20's, especially in the mid and short irons which seem to be larger ? Because then they might fit my requirements perfectly.

Unfortunately I heard rumors about the finish of the titleist being iffy, having a lot of wear and tear. Another worry is that the

AP1's have little bounce, and allthough I'm not really a digger that grabbed my attention as I always read that bounce is my friend.

 

Thoughts anyone ? Experiences comparing i20 to AP1 ?

In custom James Stewart golfbag:
Ping Tour-S Rustique 60/TS & 55/13 / Ping CFS Stiff / Ping ID8
Ping i20 4-PW+UW / Ping CFS Stiff / Ping ID8
Ping G15 2H 17° & driver 9° / stiff aldila serrano / ping 703
Odyssey White Hot XG 2-Ball / 33" / 2°up
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The more I look at Ping's website, the more I like the I20s. If I were in the market for clubs they'd probably be at the top of my list. My reasoning is Ping has far more customization options than anyone. You can easily tweak the length, but Ping also offers different sole grind options and a lot of different shaft options. Titleist also has a lot of options for shafts, but Ping seems to be the best as far as customization because of the sole grind options.

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The more I look at Ping's website, the more I like the I20s. If I were in the market for clubs they'd probably be at the top of my list. My reasoning is Ping has far more customization options than anyone. You can easily tweak the length, but Ping also offers different sole grind options and a lot of different shaft options. Titleist also has a lot of options for shafts, but Ping seems to be the best as far as customization because of the sole grind options.

 

Scratch golf offers sole grinds, so does Miura but those are well out of most peoples pocket books. Both would be around $2500 for a set, so unless you looking to seriously drop some coin then you might consider Ping to be the best for sole grind custom options.

 

Pretty much every major OEM you can list has a custom department with extra shafts and you can custom order lie and loft to exact specs. Anything forged can be bent in a lie / loft machine after the fact with-in OEM specifications. For a lot of companies that is typically +/- 3* on lie angle and +/- 2* on loft. That goes for length as well OEMs can build them to specification of 1/2" over or whatever you want.

 

I personally don't normally care what shaft is in it anyways stock, If I buy new I get x-stiff shafts that are not an up-charge typically DG x100s The shaft is always going to be pulled heads weighted, shafts spine aligned and then reinstalled assuming I am going to use those shafts in the heads. A lot of times I pull the shafts from my current irons and they get installed into the new heads. It would be much nicer if OEMs would just sell components of heads only for me it would save my builder A LOT of time.

 

 

 

Sorry for getting OT, let me answer your question now.

With that out of the way I like I like the Ping i20s over the AP1s. The i20s are more of a traditional loft, 46* PW and the Titleist AP1 is a 45* PW so this will effect your wedges some in closing the gaps in distance between the PW and GW/SW (not sure how many wedges you carry).

 

As an 18 handicap if you are trending down in handicap and you say that you take normally lessons you might look at something that would fit you more around a 10 so that you have a longer life on the equipment that you are planning or purchasing. Many people that are 15 and less handicaps like the Mizuno MP line http://www.mizunousa.com/golf/mp-irons. I always try to get something that when I improve only needs a minor lie and loft check for my new swing and then I am good to go again.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

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Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I think I would go with the Pings. I am going to seriously look at the S series iron when it is time to replace the ZB's. While I love the forged head, they wear considerably faster than the cast. Now I know that the AP1's are cast also, but if you can live with the look of the Pings at address then Ping is a club that is hard to go wrong with.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

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Forgiving, Forged, High quality, consitant.

 

I would consider the passing point irons from Muira. Do a fitting no matter what. Do guess at the iron you need, know it. Then, when settle on a particular set you can special roder to suit. It take a while in season from the OEM'snow but you will be happier.

 

THe muira is more costly but from what I am told worth it.

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Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

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There is nothing like a Miura in terms of feel. They custom fit you to every order. Here is the website --> http://miuragolf.com/

MGS has done a review on Miura irons before --> http://www.mygolfspy.com/miura-cb-501-irons-reviews/

 

I thought hard about these clubs before I bought my W/S FG62 Blades, but I wanted to try a blade that was slightly less expensive before committing to the Miura set of irons. The Miura set of irons probably a few seasons from now :)

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

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Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I can only speak to the i20's, not to a comparison with the AP1's. I recently was fitted for the i20's and have had them in the bag for about a month now. No question that Ping's fitting is excellent, but what sold me on the irons was their consistent feel and forgiveness, while still being workable. I thought I wanted forged irons, and the cast i20's do not feel like forged irons to be sure, but I have no regrets with the i20's. The faces are hot- I also noticed about 1/2 club more distance with them. But they are controllable and give good feedback. I also have a decreasing hcp and think I will realistically be playing to a 10-12 by the end of this year. I went with the Ping's with that in mind, knowing I will still be happy with them even as my game improves. Before I bought the i20's, I played forged Dynacraft and Maltby irons for about 3 years. Like I said, I thought I'd never go to cast. Never say never, I guess.

PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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I would disagree that that AP1's are an iron that one would grow out of. I never really think you could grow out of an iron. As a Ping fan I would say go i20's, but really go with what you hit best. But I wouldn't buy one over the other because you are afraid of growing out of a set.

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I would disagree that that AP1's are an iron that one would grow out of. I never really think you could grow out of an iron. As a Ping fan I would say go i20's, but really go with what you hit best. But I wouldn't buy one over the other because you are afraid of growing out of a set.

 

The Titleist AP1 is basically the Super GI version that Titleist sells they just don't market it that way. Here is a side by side comparison of all 4 iron sets they sell. At the very bottom look at the offsets and lofts --> http://media.titleist.com/images/titleist/pdfs/US/2011/2011_Fall_Iron_Selection_Guide.pdf

 

Here are the reasons that the AP1 might not be a good choice

--> The large offset is designed to help a 'beginner' square the face at impact, for someone that is good at squaring the face 'mid-low hdcps' this will cause you to start hooking the ball badly and probably make it impossible to hit a cut.

 

--> The strong lofts help the 'beginner' in getting more distance because they will be left with longer shots into greens. The 'mid-low hdcp' will be able to get more distance from technique and have shorter shots into the green so would normally lean to a wedge side bias of carring PW, GW, SW, LW and have their gaps more in the Driver, fairway, hybrid area.

 

--> These clubs are designed to hit the ball straight and higher so controlling the trajectory & shot shape might become a challenge when you get to that point.

 

--> The last thing has to do with turf interaction, you might find these hard to take a divot with in firm conditions. I played the Titleist AP2s and would have a hard time getting them to dig a little more and interact with the turf like I wanted to. I caught a lot of shots about 1 to 2 grooves low of what I wanted with them. That sounds crazy that I care about hitting something 2 grooves low but that changes ball flight and spin.

 

 

The Ping i20 has less offset espesually in the 5-P clubs then the AP1. Most people only have 4-P or even 5-P in the bag anymore and use hybrids instead. The loft on them match the new Mizuno lofts and other Players CB clubs that are coming out at a 46* PW loft set up. I personally still prefer a 47* PW set but whatever. I feel that out of the two the i20 is geared more at mid-skilled players then beginners. I think the Ping i20 is more of a comparison to the Titleist AP2 then the AP1.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

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Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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The Titleist AP1 is basically the Super GI version that Titleist sells they just don't market it that way. Here is a side by side comparison of all 4 iron sets they sell. At the very bottom look at the offsets and lofts --> http://media.titleist.com/images/titleist/pdfs/US/2011/2011_Fall_Iron_Selection_Guide.pdf

 

Here are the reasons that the AP1 might not be a good choice

--> The large offset is designed to help a 'beginner' square the face at impact, for someone that is good at squaring the face 'mid-low hdcps' this will cause you to start hooking the ball badly and probably make it impossible to hit a cut.

 

--> The strong lofts help the 'beginner' in getting more distance because they will be left with longer shots into greens. The 'mid-low hdcp' will be able to get more distance from technique and have shorter shots into the green so would normally lean to a wedge side bias of carring PW, GW, SW, LW and have their gaps more in the Driver, fairway, hybrid area.

 

--> These clubs are designed to hit the ball straight and higher so controlling the trajectory & shot shape might become a challenge when you get to that point.

 

--> The last thing has to do with turf interaction, you might find these hard to take a divot with in firm conditions. I played the Titleist AP2s and would have a hard time getting them to dig a little more and interact with the turf like I wanted to. I caught a lot of shots about 1 to 2 grooves low of what I wanted with them. That sounds crazy that I care about hitting something 2 grooves low but that changes ball flight and spin.

 

 

The Ping i20 has less offset espesually in the 5-P clubs then the AP1. Most people only have 4-P or even 5-P in the bag anymore and use hybrids instead. The loft on them match the new Mizuno lofts and other Players CB clubs that are coming out at a 46* PW loft set up. I personally still prefer a 47* PW set but whatever. I feel that out of the two the i20 is geared more at mid-skilled players then beginners. I think the Ping i20 is more of a comparison to the Titleist AP2 then the AP1.

 

I'm not disagreeing what the AP1's are, though I wouldn't say they are in the SGI category. The i20 is definitely more similar to the AP2 than the AP1.

 

I still would not choose between 2 sets of irons because I fear growing out of 1 set. If that was case, I'd just buy blades because they would truly make me the better player right?

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I'm not disagreeing what the AP1's are, though I wouldn't say they are in the SGI category. The i20 is definitely more similar to the AP2 than the AP1.

 

I still would not choose between 2 sets of irons because I fear growing out of 1 set. If that was case, I'd just buy blades because they would truly make me the better player right?

 

 

Agreed. While the AP1 might be as close to a SGI as Titleist gets, they're definitely not cut from the same mold at the Callaway RAZR XF, Adams A12 OS, or PING K15. Put them in the PING lineup for example, and they'd fall between the I20 and the G20. Barely GI really. They'd actually probably fall right in the middle of most OEM's lineups... I say all of this based on the previous 710 series AP1s.

 

Just my opinion, the 712APs for example are much more of a players iron (narrower sole, thinner topline) than the previous 710AP2s. If the same progression has been made to the AP1s, it would be lesser still of a GI club.

 

I'm a huge proponent of finding a club that suites your eye, and then getting properly fit for the shaft. If you need a little bit more forgiveness, perhaps go with something with a bit more perimeter weight, but my experience is when you get into the GI range you're giving up pinpoint accuracy to mitigate your misses.

 

I think that there's enough forgiveness in a Wilson FG Tour V2 or Mizuno MP-59 that almost anyone can play them. The exception might be the guy who has trouble getting the ball in the air.

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Interesting, based on lofts and offsets alone I think I an make an argument that I can group them into the Super GI / GI category.

 

Titleist AP1 ~ 45* PW, offset in the 3 iron is 0.245"

 

Callaway Razer XF ~ 44* PW, offset not listed on website

Adams A12 OS ~ 44* PW, offset not listed on website

Adams redline ~ 44* PW, offset not listed on website

TalyorMade RBZ ~ 45* PW, 6.5mm (aprx 0.255") offset in the 3 iron

TalyorMade RBZ Max ~ 44* PW, 6.1 mm offset in the 4 iron

Ping K15 ~ 45* PW, 0.230" offset on the 3H

 

if it smells like a duck, acts like a duck, has specs like a duck... well... :)

 

EDIT: I am just going off the specifications of loft and offset alone in classification and comparison to one to the other. Obviously the AP1 doesn't have a 3H etc. The Ping i20 lines up closer in specs of loft and offset to the AP2 then the AP1

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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i havent hit the new Ap 1 but i have hit the i20.

 

it feels very similiar to my current set of i15s. of cos there are differences so tiny that i cannot feel like some "feel testing robot" but i thk if ur leaping from a set of mx25s u will feel the difference.

 

i thought "feel" was everything when i switch from a set of Mx200s to the i15s but surprisingly the Ping cast feel was not significantly worse than a forged feel.

 

i also think that the smaller heads made me a better golfer as i focused more on my mechanics and ballstriking. my handicap was 28 when i got them and i am down to a 15.2 atm.

 

but all i can say with the options and everything if ur just in the market for a brand spanking new set of clubs the i20s are dead solid. if u want to grow into a better player buy a more challenging set of irons. the forgiveness in the pings is significant enough to not put u in a disadvantaged position

Taylormade RBZ2 TP 9.5 Fuel 60

Ping i20 3 wood Aldila Nv

Adams Dhy 18*

Mizuno Mp59 4-p KBS Tour S

Vokey 50* 55* 60*

Scotty Cameron Select Newport 1.5

Ball - Z star XV

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Interesting, based on lofts and offsets alone I think I an make an argument that I can group them into the Super GI / GI category.

 

Titleist AP1 ~ 45* PW, offset in the 3 iron is 0.245"

 

Callaway Razer XF ~ 44* PW, offset not listed on website

Adams A12 OS ~ 44* PW, offset not listed on website

Adams redline ~ 44* PW, offset not listed on website

TalyorMade RBZ ~ 45* PW, 6.5mm (aprx 0.255") offset in the 3 iron

TalyorMade RBZ Max ~ 44* PW, 6.1 mm offset in the 4 iron

Ping K15 ~ 45* PW, 0.230" offset on the 3H

 

if it smells like a duck, acts like a duck, has specs like a duck... well... :)

 

EDIT: I am just going off the specifications of loft and offset alone in classification and comparison to one to the other. Obviously the AP1 doesn't have a 3H etc. The Ping i20 lines up closer in specs of loft and offset to the AP2 then the AP1

 

Stronger lofts are a terrible way to promote forgiveness, SGI irons really should be geared towards helping players get the ball into the air, not distance, but that's a different rant altogether. You need to look at how deep the cavity is and how big the sole is. This is why SGI clubs use titanium faces, so they can move all the weight to the perimeter and have a thick sole to prevent fat shots.

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I haven't hit the I20's, but if they are anything like my I15's then I would strongly recommend them. I've found they are surprisingly forgiving for a players iron - especially in the progressive long irons, which I've always struggled with in other player sets.

 

One other thing... don't fall into the trap of going with forged blades too early... with the misconception that it will improve your ball striking. I think that's a load of hooey. Practice improves your ball striking but it takes time and going with an iron that is appropriate for your handicap will make the game more enjoyable.

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Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner

Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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This is getting WAY off topic I am sorry for that. I am not trying to argue with anyone I am giving data and functionality of how the Titleist AP1 is going to play.

 

 

The Ping i20 has WAY less offset in compassion to the AP1, The Ping i20 has a lower launch angle then the AP1, The Ping i20 has a TON more workability in the AP1. I am making the point that the Titleist AP2 is a better irons to look at in comparison to the Ping i20 irons. Comparing the Titleist AP1 to the Ping i20 is like comparing an orange to an apple.

 

The Titleist AP1 irons set is not a really a 'players iron' you can not compare it to something like a Mizuno MP-53, Ping i20, Titleist AP2, and other mid-low handicap cavity back irons. I am sorry it just doesn't match up in terms of specifications and playability.

 

 

 

This is the reason that I say the Titleist AP1 is more like a GI/SGI iron then a 'players club'. I again encourage you to READ the PDF linked here in comparing the Titleist line up then compare the following characteristics to the Ping i20 and tell me if you can still say that the Ping i20 is anything like the Titleist AP1 other then that they are both CAST clubs.

 

I really am not trying to sound like an jerk or know it all when I say some of these things, it is more about getting information on the table.

 

Offset is the measure between the hosel in the leading edge. In the swing the LARGER the offset the more the club helps the player close down the face. Generally speaking if you have a slice you need as much offset as you can find to help you square the face due to a swing flaw. If you put those clubs in my hands I will show you one mean a$$ hook with just the large offsets alone. IF you are missing left with a hook you need LESS offset. Hence why blades offer almost no offset, the players that are playing blades don't need help squaring the face at impact.

 

Loft is just a measure of the angle between the ground, better players deloft the club at impact turning a 47* PW into an effective loft at impact of 45* PW approximately because they lead with the hands, the club head lags behind and they hit down on the ball. Stronger lofts are designed for the player that tends yo try to help the ball in the air, or a player that no longer has a great deal of strength but has good swing mechanics. You hand me a 45* PW I'll hit it almost as long as my current 9 iron at 43* it would go a touch shorter obviously.

 

Forgiveness is just what the club will let you get away with in terms of straightness and distance on off center strikes. It has absolutely nothing to do with how high the ball launches in the air. The Titleist AP1 has a low amount of workability, the lower amount of workability means that you can hit it almost anywhere on the face and it will go straighter and not rob you of distance. This is again the same design that GI/SGI irons have to help the mid-high handicapper keep the ball in play and reduce the amount of a swing flaw such as a slice.

 

Center of Gravity (CG) is the function of what determines the launch angle on an iron and the help in getting the ball in the air. The Titleist AP1 has the HIGHEST launch angle in the line up. This design is VERY common in GI/SGI irons to help a player get the ball in the air easier for more distance when they are not properly using the clubs given loft and spin characteristics o lift the ball in the air.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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Interesting discussions going on !

 

My take on it so far, part from own research, part from discussions here.

 

I am aware both are in a different category, I do label both irons differently, ie i20 is a "forgiving" players iron (allthough Maltby will probably put them in the GI category like the i15's), ie AP1 is a "reasonable looking" GI iron (allthough Maltby puts them in the SGI category). But both are selected as the in my view best possible representatives of 2 categories for my requirements. So I'm basically choosing between categories, bottom end players vs top end GI, if that makes any sense.

 

But both are still compromises, because if I take my brain out of the equation, and follow my heart, I'm in love with the looks of Mizuno MP63, Titleist 712CB, as I like clean forged CB's without too much insert rubbish (easy to keep clean haha). But I know I'm not ready for those ! They will hurt my scores !

 

From the two compromises though, I do like the i20's best visually, due to their more compact heads in short and mid irons, less offset, their satin finish. But I'm almost sure I will get straighter shots with the AP1, and my scores will be lower with them, at least in the short run. The i20's might be a better choice in the long run though, forcing me to focus better, and might be the best compromise between what I need now, ie GI, and what I love, ie Miz MP53, Tit CB.

 

An interesting path could also be having the AP1's loft built 1 degree weak, that gives more traditional lofts AND gives more bounce ...

 

Choosing irons is never easy ... sigh

In custom James Stewart golfbag:
Ping Tour-S Rustique 60/TS & 55/13 / Ping CFS Stiff / Ping ID8
Ping i20 4-PW+UW / Ping CFS Stiff / Ping ID8
Ping G15 2H 17° & driver 9° / stiff aldila serrano / ping 703
Odyssey White Hot XG 2-Ball / 33" / 2°up
Srixon AD333 - Oakley Flack Jacket XLJ G30

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Interesting discussions going on !

 

My take on it so far, part from own research, part from discussions here.

 

I am aware both are in a different category, I do label both irons differently, ie i20 is a "forgiving" players iron (allthough Maltby will probably put them in the GI category like the i15's), ie AP1 is a "reasonable looking" GI iron (allthough Maltby puts them in the SGI category). But both are selected as the in my view best possible representatives of 2 categories for my requirements. So I'm basically choosing between categories, bottom end players vs top end GI, if that makes any sense.

 

But both are still compromises, because if I take my brain out of the equation, and follow my heart, I'm in love with the looks of Mizuno MP63, Titleist 712CB, as I like clean forged CB's without too much insert rubbish (easy to keep clean haha). But I know I'm not ready for those ! They will hurt my scores !

 

From the two compromises though, I do like the i20's best visually, due to their more compact heads in short and mid irons, less offset, their satin finish. But I'm almost sure I will get straighter shots with the AP1, and my scores will be lower with them, at least in the short run. The i20's might be a better choice in the long run though, forcing me to focus better, and might be the best compromise between what I need now, ie GI, and what I love, ie Miz MP53, Tit CB.

 

An interesting path could also be having the AP1's loft built 1 degree weak, that gives more traditional lofts AND gives more bounce ...

 

Choosing irons is never easy ... sigh

 

I'm of the opinion, buy the clubs you like, or you'll just be left with the "what if" feeling. Try them out and you may see that you can hit the clubs you thought were too unforgiving. You certainly can't go wrong with the i20s though, they're probably the nicest looking club Ping has along with the S series.

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bcgolf, I don't know if you 'be had a chance to hit the MP-53s, because I would think that they would be at least as forgiving as the I20s..While I hit both, I haven't hit them enough to give an opinion...While I've got the Staff FG-62s in my bag now, if I put the Mizunos back in my bag, I'm going with a straight set of 63s & not the 63/68 combo that I've been playing...The 63s give me a little higher ball flight, which I like..have a great season...Fairways & Greens 4ever....

 

you will have to let me know how you are liking the W/S FG62s I play them wrote a review on it as well. I have to agree that the Mizuno MP-53 is a solid iron and would compare really well to the Ping i20.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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One's a SGI, the other a player's iron...How many 6 or below hdcpers have you played with that play AP1s?..If someone buys the AP1s & they don't grow out of them, then it's safe to say that thair swing's not improving..Different strokes for different folks..Nuff said..Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

To be honest, I know only 1 person who has ever played the AP1s. However I am really good friends with some low single digit guys in the 2-5 range. One guy has in the last 18 months or so played the following irons. i20's, Burner 2.0's, Ci11's, R11's, Razr X Tour. I would say some of those are similar to the AP1 in terms of forgives, lofts, and offset. I don't think it makes him any less of a golfer for playing Burner 2.0 or any better playing the i20. He's just a solid player, hits the ball straight, can curve it when necessary, and just flat out scores. Another guy I've played with has used Mashie irons one day and shot mid 70's and the next day used Bridgestone J40's the next and shot mid 70's.

 

You are totally right about different strokes for different folks. Don't want to thread jack anymore.

 

To the OP - I would say get what you hit best now and go from there.

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