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Between clubs: hit it hard or take some off?


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I fall into the camp of taking the longer club and “taking some off” 90% of the time. Usually try to go with a 3/4 swing with the longer club depending on what I’m actually trying to accomplish. Every once in a while, if I’m between short irons or wedges, I may go with “swing harder” philosophy. Sometimes it works. 

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If it’s a money shot I’ll go with one more club. If it’s just a fun round I will go one less and hit it hard. Hint, one more club works better 70% of the time. 

TaylorMade  M1 custom driver with Talamonti Lite 55 gram R flex shaft
TaylorMade RBZ 3 HL 17 degree 3 wood Matrix Ozik R flex
Ping G2 17 degree 5 woodw TFC 100 R shaft
TaylorMade SLDR 3 Rescue 19 degree w Fuji 82h Speeder S shaft
TaylorMade SIM Max OS irons 4-PW w Fuji Ventus 6R shafts
TM RSi1 50 degree gap wedge w KBS TGI 60 shaft
Callaway X c grind 56 degree wedge True Temper S steel shaft
Callaway SureOut 58 degree UST Mamiya 65 sand wedge
TaylorMade Milled Grind 60 degree lob wedge NIppon Pro modus 1 degree upright Tour 120 S shaft . All woods, hybrids and irons fitted with JumboMax grips. FBS1 modified 3 degree center shaft offset putter w JumboMax grip. Bushnell TourZ6 rangefinder

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14 minutes ago, Pvicary said:

If it’s a money shot I’ll go with one more club. If it’s just a fun round I will go one less and hit it hard. Hint, one more club works better 70% of the time. 

interesting, if there is a hole in one prize in a tournament I usually take an extra club as well (money shot)

committed to performance excellence

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On 1/24/2023 at 9:28 AM, G56744 said:

All other things being equal, if you are between clubs, are you more likely to try the “hard” shorter club or take something off the longer club?

I usually go the latter route, choking down or making a three-quarter swing only to catch it flush and fly the green anyway. If I try the “hard” shot, it usually spins a bunch, flies higher and ends up short. It’s the 50-50-90 rule in full effect (if you have a 50-50 shot at getting it right, you’ll pick wrong 90% of the time).

How about everyone else?

Neither. Instead you should open or close the clubface slightly to add or remove loft. Swinging harder will add more spin, which is no good as you may just suck back right off the green. Swinging easier is a dangerous thing, as very often your swing speed doesn't decrease or you release it a little later because of the shorter backswing which takes off loft and you flush it, and it goes just as far or farther than your normal swing. We've all had that happen.

If you're between say, a 7 and an 8 iron, and don't know which one to use, decide whether a fade or a draw would be better on the approach. If a draw is better, take the 8 and close the clubface slightly. If a fade is better, open the 7. You only need to open or close them 2 degrees to make them the same loft.

Driver: TM M1 9.5*

4W: Wishon bent FLAT

Irons: Mizuno MP20MB

Wedges: 50/55/60 Mizuno

Putter: Evnroll ER2

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10 minutes ago, bluesmandan76 said:

Neither. Instead you should open or close the clubface slightly to add or remove loft. Swinging harder will add more spin, which is no good as you may just suck back right off the green. Swinging easier is a dangerous thing, as very often your swing speed doesn't decrease or you release it a little later because of the shorter backswing which takes off loft and you flush it, and it goes just as far or farther than your normal swing. We've all had that happen.

If you're between say, a 7 and an 8 iron, and don't know which one to use, decide whether a fade or a draw would be better on the approach. If a draw is better, take the 8 and close the clubface slightly. If a fade is better, open the 7. You only need to open or close them 2 degrees to make them the same loft.

Interesting comment, I agree with swinging harder will add spin on iron shots, great point, I am not a fan of "opening or closing your club face" I think the "Kiss" principle is much better to follow and your plan could be too difficult to execute especially under pressure. 

committed to performance excellence

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16 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Interesting comment, I agree with swinging harder will add spin on iron shots, great point, I am not a fan of "opening or closing your club face" I think the "Kiss" principle is much better to follow and your plan could be too difficult to execute especially under pressure. 

Well, all I can say is give it a try. It does work. You're not changing your swing or your setup. Just your loft and alignment. So I think the kiss principle vindicates this approach, as it is simpler to execute than altering your swing and your setup. It's what was/is advocated by Jack Nicklaus.

Search on youtube for these videos:

Jack Nicklaus Tip #2 - One swing - YouTube

Nicklaus Golf My Way - One Basic Swing - YouTube

 

Driver: TM M1 9.5*

4W: Wishon bent FLAT

Irons: Mizuno MP20MB

Wedges: 50/55/60 Mizuno

Putter: Evnroll ER2

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I always go by the mantra: "When in doubt, go with the longer club". I was taught this as most amateur players are always short as they don't actually hit the ball as far as they think they do with whatever club they use.

Driver: Callaway Epic Speed 9* - Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 65, Stiff

3 Wood: Callaway Epic Flash 3 Wood 14* - Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75, Stiff

Hybrids: Callaway Epic Flash #3 17* - Mitsubishi Tensei AV Silver 70, Stiff

               Callaway Epic Flash #4 20* - Mitsubishi Tensei AV Silver 70, Stiff

               Callaway Epic Flash #5 23* - Mitsubishi Tensei AV Silver 70, Stiff

               Callaway Epic Flash #6 26* - Mitsubishi Tensei AV Silver 65, Regular

Irons: Ping G430, Red Dot, 7, 8, 9, W, 45.5*, 50*, ALTA CB BLACK, Regular

Wedges: Edison Forged - 55*, KBS PGI 80, Regular 2* Flat

Putter: Odyssey Toe Up #1, Ball: Vice Pro

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4 hours ago, Andrew75 said:

I don't even know how to hit it hard. I never swing at more than 85% of my strength with any club and prefer to swing at 70% at all times. Hitting it hard is a foreign concept. I wouldn't know what to do. 

 

.... Boy I hear ya! Feel isn't real. I am just like you although I feel like I swing 100% and my max controllable swing speed. I played with a Lady that was a good player and asked me "how do you hit it so far and swing so easy?" Ouch. I told her thanks but I am swinging as hard as I can. Looking at my swing on video (which I hate because I want to change things that work) I have plenty more speed in the tank. But when I swing normally I am swinging at full speed. Works well for everything but my driver where like everyone I could use some more distance. I have tried Speed Training and also just increasing my effort which feels like swinging 110% and it works short term but sooner than later causes sequencing problems and then it is difficult to get back to my normal swing. 

 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
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47 minutes ago, bluesmandan76 said:

Well, all I can say is give it a try. It does work. You're not changing your swing or your setup. Just your loft and alignment. So I think the kiss principle vindicates this approach, as it is simpler to execute than altering your swing and your setup. It's what was/is advocated by Jack Nicklaus.

Search on youtube for these videos:

Jack Nicklaus Tip #2 - One swing - YouTube

Nicklaus Golf My Way - One Basic Swing - YouTube

 

Well, jack is the greatest of all time, definatly worth a look

committed to performance excellence

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4 hours ago, Tim McCarthy said:

I don't like to "take some off" - I tend to pull it when I do. Choke up (don't forget you are choking up to dodge the skull) and go get it! 

 

... Amen. In general better players will pull the ball when they decelerate and less skilled iron players will push the ball. You need to accelerate with every club, even the putter. I put the ball back in my stance a few inches, choke down and take a 3/4 swing always accelerating as if I am trying to hit the ball over the green. But like all golfers, about every 20 rounds I subconsciously think I have too much club and decelerate and it always ends up with a low pull and I promise myself I will never do it again ... until I do. 🙄

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Amen. In general better players will pull the ball when they decelerate and less skilled iron players will push the ball. You need to accelerate with every club, even the putter. I put the ball back in my stance a few inches, choke down and take a 3/4 swing always accelerating as if I am trying to hit the bal over the green. But like all golfers, about every 20 rounds I subconsciously think I have too much club and decelerate and it always ends up with a low pull and promise myself I will never do it again ... until I do. 🙄

we decided years ago to say "grip down" instead of "choke" lol

committed to performance excellence

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36 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Well, jack is the greatest of all time, definatly worth a look

... Is he? 😇

... When I type in Google "Tiger Wins" this comes up:

Tiger Woods wins

With 82 all-time PGA TOUR victories, Tiger Woods is tied with Sam Snead for the most wins in PGA TOUR history.
 

... When I type in Google "Jack Wins" this comes up:

https://www.facebook.com › ... › Jack Wins

Jack Wins. 23969 likes · 9 talking about this. 'If you're a fan of house music, you can't go past the feel-good styling of Jack Wins!' – DJ Mag (UK)

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I look at the problem with being short or long. I will choose the best miss. 
I like to hit my clubs at 80% effort, so I like to take the longer club if all is equal.

default_taylormade-small.jpg.30d3eb3f9b481199aee6d83da348774b.jpg    M4 Driver 8.5 D Fujikura Red 6S
                       M4 3 Wood 15 D Fujikura Red 6S
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1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

we decided years ago to say "grip down" instead of "choke" lol

 

... Since I use the S word for a shot screaming right or that white stuff I NEVER want to see again other than pictures and movies, this makes perfect sense!  👍

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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….
You're not changing your swing or your setup. Just your loft and alignment. So I think the kiss principle vindicates this approach, as it is simpler to execute than altering your swing and your setup.
….


I think gripping down an inch or so on the longer club, without changing swing or setup, is much simpler.
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I tend to take the pin position into account. If it's front of the green or wind against, I'll take the longer club, possibly grip it a bit short and go at it. If it's in the back of the green, or wind in the back, I'll take the short club, ball a bit back in the stance and give it the full treatment.

Despite all my efforts the "short club hit more" ends up either pin high or close, and the "long club hit soft" ends mostly pin high or long. It's more a matter of "what typical putt or chip do you prefer in case you don't get that perfect shot"... And that is wildly situation dependent.

Aim small... pray to miss small

My bag: Ping hoofer lite. My driver: Nike Vapor Pro. 4w: Inesis 500. Hybrid: Nike Vapor Flex. Irons (4-PW): Takomo 301 combo on KBS tour X. Wedges: Vokey SM7 52° and 58°. Putter: Cleveland Classic HB1. Balls: Inesis Tour900 yellow.

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My miss is generally short according to my Garmin stats, so if I am between clubs, more often than not I am taking the longer club.

 

  • Titleist TSR3 Driver - 9.75 degrees
  • Taylor Made Mini-Driver 13.5 degrees
  • Ping G30 5 Wood
  • Ping G30 4 hybrid
  • Mizuno MP20 - MMC irons 4-PW - Nippon Stiff shaft, Z-grip grips
  • Titleist SM7 Wedges 50, 54 
  • Ping Cadence TR B65 Putter
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On 2/13/2023 at 9:31 AM, Jim Shaw said:

in colder conditions, for me, it is just a mathematical calculation and of course not 100% accurate, example, anything under 10 degrees Celsius I add 10% to my yardage, if I am 100 yds to the pin, no wind, no rain, even lie, (which pretty much never happens) I will hit my 110 shot which is an in between clubs for me. If I am 180 to the pin with conditions as previously noted, add 10% or 18 yards equals 198, that is my 200 yd club which I have a number for etc. etc. Does that make sense?

I'm in Boston- if it is really chilly- say before 45 degrees- I go directly into my wife's bag and steal her women's golf balls- lower compression evens it out a little! 

 

FORE!

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Just now, Tim McCarthy said:

I'm in Boston- if it is really chilly- say before 45 degrees- I go directly into my wife's bag and steal her women's golf balls- lower compression evens it out a little! 

 

and you have the best hockey team in the world, just sayin.....I am going to watch them play when they visit the Vancouver Canucks on Feb 25th... go bruins go....

committed to performance excellence

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Always take the extra club. The odds that I'll pure the shot and get another 5 yards out of it are slim to none. LOL

DR: PXG 0311 Gen 5 with Tensei White Extra Stiff
3W: PXG 0211 with Tensei White Extra Stiff
3H: Tour Exotics EX221 with HZRDUS Smoke Black Stiff
IRN: 2021 PXG 0211 with MMT Mitsubishi Stiff 
54/58: Cleveland CBX
P: Wilson Infinite Buckingham

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On 2/13/2023 at 4:31 PM, Jim Shaw said:

in colder conditions, for me, it is just a mathematical calculation and of course not 100% accurate, example, anything under 10 degrees Celsius I add 10% to my yardage, if I am 100 yds to the pin, no wind, no rain, even lie, (which pretty much never happens) I will hit my 110 shot which is an in between clubs for me. If I am 180 to the pin with conditions as previously noted, add 10% or 18 yards equals 198, that is my 200 yd club which I have a number for etc. etc. Does that make sense?

That makes sense! It sounds like you have a system for adjusting your yardage based on colder conditions. While it may not be 100% accurate, it's a helpful way to make adjustments to your shot based on the weather.

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21 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

and you have the best hockey team in the world, just sayin.....I am going to watch them play when they visit the Vancouver Canucks on Feb 25th... go bruins go....

🤭 As a BC resident I should be shocked. But I'm not a Canucks fan hahaha. Not a Bruins fan either 

I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf!

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, ProjectX HZRDUS Smoke Black

Titleist TSi2 18 Degree Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX Hexcel

Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours S

Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M

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I need to set my ego aside and take something off the longer club. As many have mentioned, trying to crank on the shorter club causes a balloon shot for me, or I catch it thin and who knows what the heck is going to happen.

In my :cobra-small: Ultralight Stand Bag:

Driver:    :callaway-small: Rogue 10.5° - LH -  Project X EvenFlow 60 Stiff
Woods:   :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 3/4 Wood - Atmos Blue TS 7 Stiff
               :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 5/6 Wood - Atmos Blue TS 7 Stiff
Irons:      :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 5-GW - KBS C-Taper Lite Stiff
Wedges: :cobra-small: King Black - LH - 52° 56° 60° - KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 Stiff
Putter:     :1332069271_TommyArmour: - Impact No. 3
Ball:        Maxfli TourX

Rangefinder: :skycaddie: LX5 Watch

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1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

poor you, being a canucks fan lol

Not a Canucks fan 

I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf!

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, ProjectX HZRDUS Smoke Black

Titleist TSi2 18 Degree Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX Hexcel

Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours S

Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M

Odyssey Stroke Lab 2 Ball 10 

Nike VR Tour Staff Bag

Titleist Pro V1x and Vice Pro Plus

 

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7 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

sorry, I dont read threads very thoroughly.... 

I get great pleasure at the Canucks displeasure hahha

I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf!

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, ProjectX HZRDUS Smoke Black

Titleist TSi2 18 Degree Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX Hexcel

Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours S

Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M

Odyssey Stroke Lab 2 Ball 10 

Nike VR Tour Staff Bag

Titleist Pro V1x and Vice Pro Plus

 

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  • 11 months later...

Wow, many have already mentioned a similar plan to mine. The results are ALWAYS disastrous for me when I try to swing harder. I take the longer club and swing easier. My swing falls apart when I try to swing harder. I remove the worry of having to hit it hard and I relax and take a controlled swing. Yes, there are times that I take into consideration the location of hazards, but for the most part, I go with the longer club. 

:taylormade-small: M6 clubs in the bag and a GARMIN Fenix 7 on the wrist!

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I've tried the 'swing hard/swing softer' technique and that *never* works for me. I try to maintain the same tempo with all my clubs and to add/remove distance/height I've found choking down and narrowing stance works a lot better.

DriverCobra  Aerojet LS
Woods-
Cobra  LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*,  F9 24* 
Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

Putter- Bettinardi BB56
Ball- Maxfli Tour X/Wilson Triad
Buggy- Clicgear 4.0
Bag- Callaway Org 14/Fairway C

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