KC Golf Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, T McKinnon said: I have gone through a lot of putters in my golf life (currently have 4 putters in the rotation) and I'm "tempted" to get another one. My problem with putting has nothing to do with the putter, it is the six inches between the ears that is my major problem. When I begin to have a confidence problem, I rotate to another putter in the quiver and the problem with putting is solved for a few months. To me it has very little to do with the actual putter club and more to do with one's mind. Don't waste your money on such an expensive putter, get some mental help! Or, have a few less expensive putters in your putter rotation when you need to look at something different while putting, helping to put your mind at ease. Heck, I purchased a customized putter last year with custom colors, weights and shaft and it's in rotation with the other putters in my quiver. You are completely on the right track. I believe confidence is as important as anything when it comes too putting. A good putter fitting goes a long way too. Javs 1 Quote TSR 3 9.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff TSi 3 15.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff TS3 21 Hybrid Tensei AV Blue 65 HY Stiff U-510 19 Utility Iron HZDUS Smoke Black 6.0 Stiff 5-PW 101T Irons - KBS Tour Lite Stiff - Official Tester 2023 Vokey SM9 52 F - 12 Nippon NS Pro 950 Stiff Vokey Forged 56 M - 10 DG S200 MG3 60 - 12 NS Modus3 Tour 105 Stiff Scotty Special Select - Squareback 2 - 35” / Super Stroke Slim 3.0 Z-Star Diamond Players 4 bag Official Tester - 2021 & Loyal MCC Plus 4 Sensor User Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 23 hours ago, cnosil said: I had the opportunity to roll one and it does roll the ball well. The best description I heard was that it looks like trex decking material and as a result it doesn't look very polished. Would I buy one; No. It's just more LOW CG putter when we all know that a low CG is good for getting the ball UP in the air and last time I checked that is NOT what you want to do when putting. So I big fat NO for me. Javs 1 Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said: It's just more LOW CG putter when we all know that a low CG is good for getting the ball UP in the air and last time I checked that is NOT what you want to do when putting. So I big fat NO for me. Actually you do want launch. It's just a matter, just like fitting any club, of being fit. Ball launching higher due to low CG means you just need to play a lower loft. I suggest watching one of the great TXG putting fitting videos. They do a great job of explaining optimal launch by marrying up CG, loft and the players stroke KC Golf, GolfSpy_APH and GolfSpy BOS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said: It's just more LOW CG putter when we all know that a low CG is good for getting the ball UP in the air and last time I checked that is NOT what you want to do when putting. So I big fat NO for me. Why did you quote me to post this? doesnt seem related to what I said. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G56788 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I’ll wait for the Kirkland Signature version to come out. David Leighton Reid and Javs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweed Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 No! Quote D- Ping G 400 SFT 16*- Adams Tight Lie 19*- Adams Tight Lie 4H- Ping G 400 5-U- Ping G 400 SW- Nike 56*- Ping Glide 2 P- Sub70 004 Mallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 6 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said: Actually you do want launch. It's just a matter, just like fitting any club, of being fit. Ball launching higher due to low CG means you just need to play a lower loft. I suggest watching one of the great TXG putting fitting videos. They do a great job of explaining optimal launch by marrying up CG, loft and the players stroke NO I don't. I want the ball to roll as soon as possible. Maybe YOU want to launch the ball into the air but I don't and I don't know anyone that does. And that is why when I designed my putter I built it with a High CG to roll the ball and NOT launch it up into the air, and it's why my putter design rolls the ball batter than any putter that I have tried and I have tried dozens of them over the last 212 years. I had a dozen golf instructors try my putter and every one of them preferred my [utter over theirs. My design just rolled the ball better than theirs, which is what they all wanted in a putter. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 6 hours ago, cnosil said: Why did you quote me to post this? doesnt seem related to what I said. Sorry about that, I didn't mean to quote you. My mistake. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DStar Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 There's not a chance I'd pay that much for any club. I'm guessing the individual parts may be cerakote coloured as you wouldn't paint threads etc. It's an expensive method but not $2.5k expensive.. Quote RADSpeed 9° Matrix Black Tie X-Flex F9 3/4 Wood Aldila NV 2KXV Blue CLK 19° Hybrid Speeder Evo HB S MP54 4-PW Nippon Modus³ Tour 115 X SM8 50° F-Grind SM8 54° F-Grind SM8 58° K-Grind DStar 'Malvern' Putter AVX & -ProV1X Tour-X "Hey mister, your clubs are the wrong way round".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 6 hours ago, IONEPUTT said: NO I don't. I want the ball to roll as soon as possible. Maybe YOU want to launch the ball into the air but I don't and I don't know anyone that does. And that is why when I designed my putter I built it with a High CG to roll the ball and NOT launch it up into the air, and it's why my putter design rolls the ball batter than any putter that I have tried and I have tried dozens of them over the last 212 years. I had a dozen golf instructors try my putter and every one of them preferred my [utter over theirs. My design just rolled the ball better than theirs, which is what they all wanted in a putter. Ah I see. This is a sales and marketing thing Physics disagres with you https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Launch_Angle.html https://www.scienceandmotion.com/download/docs/fundamentals/The Fundamentals of Putting4.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesman57 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 $2500 for a putter because it has "ellay". In the name? . In another thread, I said that if someone expected me to pay $55 for a dozen golf balls, I'd expect at least a kiss. Getting me to spend that much on a putter, especially a no-name putter? I'd also expect dinner. GolfSpy_SHARK and GolfSpy SAM 1 1 Quote G430 Max HL Max Driver G430 Max HL 5- and 7-Woods G430 Max HL 4-Hybrid T300 6-GW Irons Glide 3.0 52 and 58 degree Wedges Vokey SM9 56 degree Sand Wedge BB-8W Putter ProV1x Balls Semper ubi, sub ubi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 No chance for me. For others, as long as you realize it’s a vanity-conspicuous consumption buy, why not. Whatever it is, it’s not truly groundbreaking… Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylorJudd Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 9 hours ago, IONEPUTT said: NO I don't. I want the ball to roll as soon as possible. Maybe YOU want to launch the ball into the air but I don't and I don't know anyone that does. And that is why when I designed my putter I built it with a High CG to roll the ball and NOT launch it up into the air, and it's why my putter design rolls the ball batter than any putter that I have tried and I have tried dozens of them over the last 212 years. I had a dozen golf instructors try my putter and every one of them preferred my [utter over theirs. My design just rolled the ball better than theirs, which is what they all wanted in a putter. Were you putting with a wedge at some point? This seems like a lot of trauma about a minute amount of loft. Without static loft on the putter, the ball will struggle to lift out of the dimple it has created and sitting in on the green. Negative static loft is just as detrimental. GolfSpy SAM 1 Quote I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf! Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, ProjectX HZRDUS Smoke Black Titleist TSi2 18 Degree Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX Hexcel Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours S Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M Odyssey Stroke Lab 2 Ball 10 Nike VR Tour Staff Bag Titleist Pro V1x and Vice Pro Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_KFT Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I could do A LOT more for my golf game with $2,500 than buying a putter. Not a chance I'd spend that kind of coin. I also value my life and prefer to live longer than what the outcome I'd meet from my wife Javs, GolfSpy SAM, TylorJudd and 1 other 1 3 Quote Driver: TSi3 9* Fujikura Ventus TR Blue 6X Fairways: Aerojet Max 3W & 7W MCA Kai'Li White 60 Stiff Hybrid: King TEC 3H MCA MMT 85g Stiff Irons: Aerojet 6-GW KBS $-taper Lite Stiff Wedges: Snakebite Black 52/56/60 Hi-Rev 2.0 Black Stiff Putter: Super Select Newport 2.0 Ball: Tour X & ProV1x #LeftyGang Cobra 50th Anniversary Member Special Challenge (link here) Unofficial FootJoy Hyperflex BOA 2023 Review Unofficial Flightscope Mevo Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 I put up the question to spark some interesting conversation. I think we achieved that goal. We did have confirmation that 2500 for a putter is insane. However, I found the physics debate on putting very interesting. My take: putting is a very personal thing. You either putt well or you don’t. I don't believe any two people putt exactly the same. The only real items most good putters do the same: have a stance that allows them to see the line, have the palm of the right hand going towards the target, have a slight forward press and slight open putter toe. Then just swing all the way through the putt. Just my two cents. GolfSpy_KFT and GolfSpy SAM 2 Quote Play like a champion today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 $2500 isn’t ground breaking. That’s the starting price of a circle t putter. When you start getting into niche or high end brands and custom putters that’s a normal price. cnosil 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 hours ago, TylorJudd said: Were you putting with a wedge at some point? This seems like a lot of trauma about a minute amount of loft. Without static loft on the putter, the ball will struggle to lift out of the dimple it has created and sitting in on the green. Negative static loft is just as detrimental. I don't believe we were speaking of loft, rather high or low CG. As for loft, my putter design has 4* of loft to get the ball out of the small depression it sits in on the green, but then the high CG causes the ball to roll rather than be launched up into the air, like just about every other putter will do becuase of the low CG of the head. My putter just rolls the ball better for more on line putts that go in the cup more often. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said: I don't believe we were speaking of loft, rather high or low CG. As for loft, my putter design has 4* of loft to get the ball out of the small depression it sits in on the green, but then the high CG causes the ball to roll rather than be launched up into the air, like just about every other putter will do becuase of the low CG of the head. My putter just rolls the ball better for more on line putts that go in the cup more often. Fair to move cg puter location to it's own thread if you want to continue that discussion. We will move forward keeping the discussion on track for this thread about a expensive custom painted putter! Thanks! GolfSpy SAM 1 Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 7 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said: Ah I see. This is a sales and marketing thing Physics disagres with you https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Launch_Angle.html https://www.scienceandmotion.com/download/docs/fundamentals/The Fundamentals of Putting4.pdf Again YOU are so wrong in what you are posting. And it's NOT about sales and marketing, as I do not build my putter for sale, I build them for my own use and as presents for a few of my friends and customers. NOT for sales. Also, if you look at the second link you might see that they talk about CG, and that is what I'm talking about. My putter has loft and ith has a high CG, both of which help to get the ball rolling and not pop up into the air too much, which is exaxtly what all the other putter designs do. Bottom line is that my putter design works better than the others out there, And I've tested it and had over a dozen PGA golf pros test it as well and they all agree that my puter rolls the ball better than what they have in their bags. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 31 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said: Again YOU are so wrong in what you are posting. And it's NOT about sales and marketing, as I do not build my putter for sale, I build them for my own use and as presents for a few of my friends and customers. NOT for sales. Also, if you look at the second link you might see that they talk about CG, and that is what I'm talking about. My putter has loft and ith has a high CG, both of which help to get the ball rolling and not pop up into the air too much, which is exaxtly what all the other putter designs do. Bottom line is that my putter design works better than the others out there, And I've tested it and had over a dozen PGA golf pros test it as well and they all agree that my puter rolls the ball better than what they have in their bags. All that matters is the right amount of dynamic loft + the right CG location needed to create optimal launch. Just like any other club, you get there with many combinations of static loft and CG locations. Lower CG would require less static loft to create the same optimal launch. Again. Physics GolfSpy BOS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 51 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said: Fair to move cg puter location to it's own thread if you want to continue that discussion. We will move forward keeping the discussion on track for this thread about a expensive custom painted putter! Thanks! Last chance. Please move the CG topic to a new thread. Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 4 hours ago, Jnoble89 said: I could do A LOT more for my golf game with $2,500 than buying a putter. Not a chance I'd spend that kind of coin. I also value my life and prefer to live longer than what the outcome I'd meet from my wife Agree 1000%. I don't want to get banned, or censured, by the moderators, so let me just say, that putter would have to do "Waaaaaay" more than let me putt golf balls, for $2500. GolfSpy_KFT 1 Quote Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Putter: Scottsdale Wolverine Woods: Gigagolf 3W, 2H, 3H Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Javs said: We did have confirmation that 2500 for a putter is insane. The only real items most good putters do the same: have the palm of the right hand going towards the target, have a slight forward press and slight open putter toe. We didn’t confirm that $2500 for a putter is insane; we confirmed that most people aren’t willing to spend $2500 for a putter. Boutique putter typically start in the $800 range and quickly escalate when you get to Cameron Circle T, Tyson Lamb, the late Byron Morgan, etc. you can find some Cameron’s reaching the $10K level. People buy and sell these putters regularly. It’s is just like any other commodity, there is a price you are will to spend and there are people willing to spend more or less than that amount. as for what good putters do; I personally don’t think items aren’t that accurate. There are a lot of grips that don’t have the right/trail hand facing the target, why is a forward press so critical? While PGA pros seem to have a 1 degree open face at impact, that number has a standard deviation of about 3 degrees. Tiger is abou .9 degrees closed at impact. IMO opinion, good putting is about consistency of your stroke. JohnSmalls, RickyBobby_PR, Javs and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 hours ago, Javs said: I put up the question to spark some interesting conversation. I think we achieved that goal. We did have confirmation that 2500 for a putter is insane. However, I found the physics debate on putting very interesting. My take: putting is a very personal thing. You either putt well or you don’t. I don't believe any two people putt exactly the same. The only real items most good putters do the same: have a stance that allows them to see the line, have the palm of the right hand going towards the target, have a slight forward press and slight open putter toe. Then just swing all the way through the putt. Just my two cents. Just because some wouldn’t pay $2500 for a putter doesn’t mean the consensus is that it’s insane. there is an entire market for high end putters where $2500 is actually cheap. $8000 scotty Cameron a sellout in less than 30 seconds when released on wednesdays. I own a couple, I know guys have 50+ and a buddy of mine is bordering on 100 in his basement. A lot of these guys also drop $1000+ on scotty Cameron bags. And it’s just not golf. Look into the knife collecting and you will see high prices there as well JohnSmalls and Javs 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Just because some wouldn’t pay $2500 for a putter doesn’t mean the consensus is that it’s insane. there is an entire market for high end putters where $2500 is actually cheap. $8000 scotty Cameron a sellout in less than 30 seconds when released on wednesdays. I own a couple, I know guys have 50+ and a buddy of mine is bordering on 100 in his basement. A lot of these guys also drop $1000+ on scotty Cameron bags. And it’s just not golf. Look into the knife collecting and you will see high prices there as well Insane was the wrong term. However, I do like the stimulated conversation. Oh by the way I have them down to 1100. JohnSmalls 1 Quote Play like a champion today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Javs said: Insane was the wrong term. However, I do like the stimulated conversation. Oh by the way I have them down to 1100. There will probably be a group in here that would say they wouldn’t spend that on a putter, but then again most if not all off them buy all their clubs used. Nothing wrong with that. there are some that have their limits and others have none or have higher ones. Javs and JohnSmalls 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 23 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: There will probably be a group in here that would say they wouldn’t spend that on a putter, but then again most if not all off them buy all their clubs used. Nothing wrong with that. there are some that have their limits and others have none or have higher ones. Whatever fits and makes it fun for everyone. Each have their own limits. I’m a retired guy that enjoys the game, good clubs and hopefully playing well! BeansGuy 1 Quote Play like a champion today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G56788 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Javs said: Oh by the way I have them down to 1100. How did you do that? Are you asking to assemble it or supply the raw materials yourself? I’m curious to see how low you can get them to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, G56744 said: How did you do that? Are you asking to assemble it or supply the raw materials yourself? I’m curious to see how low you can get them to go. I didn’t want it custom. Just all black and they are doing the length and lie adjustment. Plus they are providing a generous military discount Quote Play like a champion today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesman57 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: There will probably be a group in here that would say they wouldn’t spend that on a putter, but then again most if not all off them buy all their clubs used. Nothing wrong with that. there are some that have their limits and others have none or have higher ones. I'm definitely in that group, but I don't buy used clubs. I'm not even sure I followed that non sequitur. In any case, there is also, I suspect, a subset of people here who could afford to spend that much on a putter, but refuse. I don't like being, ummm, taken advantage of. To use forum-friendly words. Quote G430 Max HL Max Driver G430 Max HL 5- and 7-Woods G430 Max HL 4-Hybrid T300 6-GW Irons Glide 3.0 52 and 58 degree Wedges Vokey SM9 56 degree Sand Wedge BB-8W Putter ProV1x Balls Semper ubi, sub ubi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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