Are Golfers Finally Starting to Balk At Driver Prices?

[chisag]

... This is what I think will be interesting. Who will reduce the price of their driver with their next generation? As many have said, the market has out paced their personal demand and $600 is just too steep a price. Here are a few examples of golf charging too much and losing money before correcting to market demand.

... My muni back in the Chicago burbs was a nice course. Not great but not bad and a course I could play several times a week. In a two year span they found rounds were down and they lost revenue. The geniuses at the Park District decided to raise the price by $5 to recoup their loses. Left me scratching my head wondering if people weren't playing there as much as in the past, why would raising the price get them to come back? Of course as you can imagine they lost more customers and revenue took it's biggest dip. At a loss they hired a consulting firm to figure out how to get back in the black. Probably something any MGS member could have figured out but the recommended they drop the price $10 so instead of raising it $5 they should have dropped it $5. Duh. They sold a city card that offered reduced rates to residents only and they were also advised to sell the city card to anyone. This would bring in revenue up front and assure these customers would play there more often. Finally they needed to take advantage of Golf Discount sites like Golfnow for times that didn't sell well. After all these changes they started making a profit again and the course was always pretty full. Again, Duh.

... Srixon had released the Z Star at $39.99 while all the other premium balls were over $40. Great ball gathering a buzz and sales were increasing. So more geniuses decided to raise the price to $42.99. At this time the Z Star was still a new ball and far from established and talking to the Marketing Director I was told he was over ruled by the Sales Division as he did not want to raise prices for another year or two and wanted to establish a base and give new customers a financial reason to try the Z Star. The sales VP figured they would gain more in added revenue with the cost increase than lose a few customers that didn't want to pay the increase. Everyone knows where this is going as sales dropped by much more than a few customers and they lost new customers. 

... My guess is nobody will drop the price of their new drivers but if one of the major OEMs did drop the price of the 2024 driver to $549 while everyone else either stays at $599 or increases their price, ya have to think they might increase sales and take away customers from the other guys. "Our advanced manufacturing process allows us to produce the same quality driver at a lower cost to you!" kinda thing. I would be happy to consult Titleist, TaylorMade or Callaway and only ask for Clubs For Life. 

[GPS111]

This puts a bit of perspective on it.  I "celebrated" my second divorce by treating myself to an entire new set of clubs.  All fitted and adjusted.  Full set of Ping Eye 3 irons and Orlimar 1-3-5 woods. That combination of clubs cost me more than my first new car fresh off the showroom floor.  It wasn't even close.  Car = $2300 (and that dates me!).  Clubs = $3000 - $400 for each wood and $800 for the irons.  Better perspective is in that same 1970 time frame. My first set of clubs were Ram maple 1-3-4 woods and Spalding blades 2-SW and cost for all of them was $120 combined! 

So club costs have and still are rising at an accelerated rate as materials and technology change.  For those that don't  remember, the original Bridgestone J's driver used by Jumbo Ozaki and Raymond Floyd released around 1990 at $500.  I heard some were selling new at the time for up to $1200 so there is precedent for drivers price being high and staying that way.   Cost will always be there.  But once released and supplanted by the next new model, the older one depreciates.  That same Bridgestone J can now be had for $5-50.  Where each of us draws the price line determines what our bag looks like.  Owning the basic skills and shots make the game work, not the cost of the tools.

[Middler]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:53 PM, Rickp said:

On 2/21/2023 at 5:41 PM,  KGbogey said: 

Here is a question to the group. You buy the new Titleist TSR driver for $599. You upgrade to the Ventus shaft for $350. Why do you not get the stock $200 shaft back? 

One of the reasons I will never go back to Club Champion or any other fitter with that price model. I got exactly what I wanted directly from Titleist, with more than enough shaft, grip and other options, without paying for two shafts, two grips, and two adapters…

[MajorCavalry]

In 2018 I was fitted for a driver by a local fitter, Prove it Golf, in CT.  After an hour on the Trackman I ended up with a first generation Callaway Rogue and Accra FX 2.0 370 shaft M4 at 44.25. Total cost at that time was $600 and change. I considered this an astronomical sum but was determined to find a driver that worked well for me.  It did, and still continues to work well.   I hit the fairways consistently with usual distance of 230-250 yards.  I’m 70 so not unhappy with that distance. 

Fast forward to late 2022. Got the itch to see if newer technology could make a difference. During one of their many sales, I purchased a PXG Gen 5 0311 for $269 including shipping. Did some eBay hunting and found a demo Accra FX 2.0 which matched my original for $45 including the PXG adapter.  It actually came from a local golf shop so no fear of counterfeit. Had the length adjusted and a new grip placed. Coincidentally, the Rogue and PXG heads weigh exactly the same. $326 all in!  

Went to a local range which has a trackman to compare the two. Of course this was with range balls but that variable was consistent for both clubs. The results were interesting. Both clubs were comparable.  Distance and dispersion were so similar that I could not tell the difference. 
 

My conclusions:

1. Getting fit was the best decision I could have made. Despite the initial high cost, I had a driver I could count on. All poor drives were on me. One less excuse LOL. Still my “go to” after 5 years.

2. Five year newer technology, for me, did not make any difference in distance, or dispersion. Both drivers are equal in forgiveness. I do enjoy hitting and looking at the PXG, but I don’t think it will make any difference in my game.

3. By getting fit initially, I am now able to build a driver to my specifications for about 1/2 the price with careful shopping.

[storm319]

On 2/22/2023 at 5:37 AM, Chester3488 said:

I don't think it has anything to do with the new drivers being "too expensive". You have to remember when Callaway introduced the FT-5 back in 2007, it retailed for $500 to $565 depending on which one you wanted. Back then there was no adjustable head, but Callaway did offer a Draw, a Neutral and a very rare Tour Fade version. If you translate the price of the FT-5 to 2023 dollars that's equal to over $720 dollars today, and up to $830 in todays dollars if you bought the premium version of the FT-5.

Of course in 2007 Callaway also had the Big Bertha 460, which retailed for about $400. Which would still be over $575 in today's dollars. 

Just as another data point. Taylormade introduced the Burner with the Bubble Shaft back in 1994. It retailed for $350.00. Which if you convert that today's money is also well over $700.00. 

The example I like to give is the Callaway GBB which retailed for $500 in 1995 (CPI puts this at nearly $1000 in 2023 dollars).

There seems to be at least one post on the major forums annually with this same question, however there are several past examples that illustrate that driver prices today are not nearly as bad as some perceive.

[Chester3488]

11 hours ago, storm319 said:

The example I like to give is the Callaway GBB which retailed for $500 in 1995 (CPI puts this at nearly $1000 in 2023 dollars).

There seems to be at least one post on the major forums annually with this same question, however there are several past examples that illustrate that driver prices today are not nearly as bad as some perceive.

Agreed. 

I will say I think the bigger problem is that the engineers have pretty well caught up to the rules of golf. There is less and less an engineer can do to a driver to make it truly perform better than the previous year's driver. I'll be interested to see where they go in the next couple of years. Perhaps more customization in terms of looks? ... Maybe, I don't know?  

[Chester3488]

21 hours ago, chisag said:

... My guess is nobody will drop the price of their new drivers but if one of the major OEMs did drop the price of the 2024 driver to $549 while everyone else either stays at $599 or increases their price, ya have to think they might increase sales and take away customers from the other guys. "Our advanced manufacturing process allows us to produce the same quality driver at a lower cost to you!" kinda thing. I would be happy to consult Titleist, TaylorMade or Callaway and only ask for Clubs For Life. 

Ping G430 is $547.00... 2 bucks under your suggestion. Cobra AeroJet is $549.00 exactly your number. So is Mizuno. All three of those companies combined sell fewer drivers than any one of the big 3. Callaway, Taylormade or Titleist. All three of the big three had record years last year. Callaway is publicly held their numbers are super easy to get. 

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Chester3488 said:

Ping G430 is $547.00... 2 bucks under your suggestion. Cobra AeroJet is $549.00 exactly your number. So is Mizuno. All three of those companies combined sell fewer drivers than any one of the big 3. Callaway, Taylormade or Titleist. All three of the big three had record years last year. Callaway is publicly held their numbers are super easy to get. 

 

... They have always priced themselves lower. My suggestion is they would have to lower that price. I am talking about an established OEM or really as you said just the big 3 dropping the price from the previous year. Ping is certainly doing well with their strategy so exempt from my idea. Mizuno could probably cut their price in half and still only sell a couple more drivers. Cobra is a head scratcher because they make a great product but always seem like they are on the outside looking in. Bryson ands Rickie didn't seem to move the needle and I would hate to be in the Cobra Marketing division because they should sell many more drivers (and irons) than they do. 

[Chester3488]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... They have always priced themselves lower. My suggestion is they would have to lower that price. I am talking about an established OEM or really as you said just the big 3 dropping the price from the previous year. Ping is certainly doing well with their strategy so exempt from my idea. Mizuno could probably cut their price in half and still only sell a couple more drivers. Cobra is a head scratcher because they make a great product but always seem like they are on the outside looking in. Bryson ands Rickie didn't seem to move the needle and I would hate to be in the Cobra Marketing division because they should sell many more drivers (and irons) than they do. 

I hear you. I get what you're saying. I also totally agree about Cobra. BUT... here's the big but. The big 3 lead the world in driver sales. Each of them alone outsell everyone else combined. Each of them is priced competitively against each other. If one of them was to blink and drop their price, they'd likely have a banner year against the other two for one year. But ONLY for one year. Then the next year the other two would drop their price as well and now they would have eroded market pricing. Everyone would have to drop their price and then the balance would reform. The big 3 would still be the big 3, but each of them would be less profitable. 

All the also-rans would still be the also-rans but they too would be less profitable, because they too would have to drop their price. So, its a one-year profit for a forever loss in profitability. So everyone in the industry would be less profitable. Even your own company, at least after the one good year you'd have. 

There are tons of examples in tons of industries where this exact thing has happened. One of the major players drops their price and BANG, market pricing is ruined. Suddenly everyone is less profitable. It's happened with cars, toys, department stores, insurance, houses, its even happened to pickles. It takes years, sometimes decades, sometimes forever to recover that same profit margin.  

Having said that, if you are thinking of selling the company or if you are a CEO on his/her way out, it can be a great strategy. Get that one year boost in sales. Make your numbers look good. Go out with a bang or sell the company. That has been known to work. 

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, Chester3488 said:

I hear you. I get what you're saying. I also totally agree about Cobra. BUT... here's the big but.

... Dammit Chester I am an actor not an actuary!   

[JohnSmalls]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... Dammit Chester I am an actor not an actuary!   

But have you played an actuary? 

[JohnSmalls]

6 hours ago, Chester3488 said:

Ping G430 is $547.00... 2 bucks under your suggestion. Cobra AeroJet is $549.00 exactly your number. So is Mizuno. All three of those companies combined sell fewer drivers than any one of the big 3. Callaway, Taylormade or Titleist. All three of the big three had record years last year. Callaway is publicly held their numbers are super easy to get. 

To add into this, Wilson and Srixon are $499.00.  A whole $50 under Sam's suggestion.  Both are being received well and certainly keep up with the big boys, yet sales numbers are a ghost of the rest of the field.  

[Rickp]

1 hour ago, JohnSmalls said:

But have you played an actuary? 

Fair question

[GolfSpy_APH]

https://mygolfspy.com/askmygolfspy-vol-22/

Forum getting some additional attention. 

What do you think about Tony's answer? 

[chisag]

6 hours ago, JohnSmalls said:

But have you played an actuary? 

 

... Haha I played one in an insurance commercial many, many years ago. 

[chisag]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

https://mygolfspy.com/askmygolfspy-vol-22/

Forum getting some additional attention. 

What do you think about Tony's answer? 

 

... While I think high prices causing fewer purchases certainly exists, Tony's explanation sounds like the main reason for the slowdown and just makes a lot of sense. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

15 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... While I think high prices causing fewer purchases certainly exists, Tony's explanation sounds like the main reason for the slowdown and just makes a lot of sense. 

I agree. He had some good thoughts there. I hadn’t heard of the patio furniture sales decline

[ScramblinMan]

I think the high prices can be blamed on companies like PXG that used excessive marketing gimmicks to convince the general public that it is acceptable to pay these exorbitant prices! The competition (Callaway,Titleist, Ping, etc) then perceived the consumer as willing to pay those prices and therefore began up selling their “innovative technology” to justify the increases!

[G56788]

20 minutes ago, Gastcliff said:

I think the high prices can be blamed on companies like PXG that used excessive marketing gimmicks to convince the general public that it is acceptable to pay these exorbitant prices! The competition (Callaway,Titleist, Ping, etc) then perceived the consumer as willing to pay those prices and therefore began up selling their “innovative technology” to justify the increases!

I think driver prices and technology gimmicks had been trending up before PXG came along. In the late 90s you could get a steel- or graphite-shafted steel-headed driver for $150-200. Then came titanium heads for $300-400, but there were still a bunch of good options in the $200 range. By 2010, adjustable drivers had appeared, the steel shaft was dead, and $300-400 was the new $200. Now carbon fiber has shown up and pushed the price higher, but there are still some good lower-priced options (until a new material shows up and relegates carbon fiber to the bargain bin). 

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 hour ago, Gastcliff said:

I think the high prices can be blamed on companies like PXG that used excessive marketing gimmicks to convince the general public that it is acceptable to pay these exorbitant prices! The competition (Callaway,Titleist, Ping, etc) then perceived the consumer as willing to pay those prices and therefore began up selling their “innovative technology” to justify the increases!

PXG certainly originally came out swinging with high prices, but now they are in line it cheaper than most of the major OEMs. Certainly other companies like Honma and XXIO among others have higher priced drivers. 

I don't necessarily think driver prices are too high. I think the upgrade shafts and those prices are what make it unreasonable. 

[Preeway]

I’m certainly non the camp of those thinking $600 is too high for an “off the rack” driver. I’ll pay that much after getting fitted and if I get a shaft upgrade but it’s really hard to justify anything over $400 if it’s off the rack. 

[Micah T]

I’m sure someone has mentioned this already, but I’m on a 2-3 year “after market” cycle. What I mean is, I end up fitting into an expensive, after market shaft for driver and woods. Sometimes as expensive as an off the rack head and shaft from a retailer. So I keep my after market shaft for 2-3 years and keep buying 2nd hand or season old heads from eBay. Can’t wait to snag an Aerojet LS around xmas to replace my LTDx LS head. Same goes for my wife, she’ll snag a cheap stealth head to replace her sim2. But would I buy a full price new driver? Not a until there’s no such thing as a “made for” shaft.

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Micah T said:

But would buy a full price new driver? Not a until there’s no such thing as a “made for” shaft.

 

... That just isn't going to happen. Made For's fit many more average golfers buying off the rack than a premium after market shaft. OEM's figure better players are gonna play a shaft that fits their swing and that could be a Ventus Black Velocore for you or an AD-IZ for me which are both awesome shafts but fit two radically different players. 

[Micah T]

10 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... That just isn't going to happen. Made For's fit many more average golfers buying off the rack than a premium after market shaft. OEM's figure better players are gonna play a shaft that fits their swing and that could be a Ventus Black Velocore for you or an AD-IZ for me which are both awesome shafts but fit two radically different players. 

Yeah and I totally get the numbers game the OEM’s play: they just won’t get my money for anything that is still full price.

I actually operate the exact same way for my 2nd love, snowboarding: tent sales in august before OEM’s drop new gear force retailers to liquidate everything from the season before. Hard goods, soft goods, you name it.

Ebay remains the superior alternative market for used/prior gen clubs: as long as you buy from a reputable seller with a return policy.

[chisag]

31 minutes ago, Micah T said:

Yeah and I totally get the numbers game the OEM’s play: they just won’t get my money for anything that is still full price.

I actually operate the exact same way for my 2nd love, snowboarding: tent sales in august before OEM’s drop new gear force retailers to liquidate everything from the season before. Hard goods, soft goods, you name it.

Ebay remains the superior alternative market for used/prior gen clubs: as long as you buy from a reputable seller with a return policy.

 

... I hear ya and waiting a year or more makes perfect sense. At age 69 I am fighting a losing battle but fighting none the less and I only have so many "I'll buy next years model" left before my distance falls to where clubs/shafts won't make that much difference. So if something blows me away when released I will purchase it, but that very rarely happens. 

[GPS111]

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I hear ya and waiting a year or more makes perfect sense. At age 69 I am fighting a losing battle but fighting none the less and I only have so many "I'll buy next years model" left before my distance falls to where clubs/shafts won't make that much difference. So if something blows me away when released I will purchase it, but that very rarely happens. 

Reading your post on the heels of a dozen others and the age range a bell.  I am 70.  Other posters have added ages or playing partner ages up to their 80's.  New club cost aside, I have not seen many off the shelf new models that are geared to senior golfers.  (I'm looking at you TaylorMade, Callaway, Titleist, etc., of the golfing world).  Everything on the floor is R or S flex.  No A or R1 flex for slower swing speeds.  That falls into a custom club that may or may not incur a charge to get depending on store.  These I can only find on the mfg site or something like eBay or through a fitter.  I can't just walk in and walk out with something new, even if I were willing to pay $400+.  Casual golf buying is geared to the younger crowd!

[chisag]

11 minutes ago, GPS111 said:

Reading your post on the heels of a dozen others and the age range a bell.  I am 70.  Other posters have added ages or playing partner ages up to their 80's.  New club cost aside, I have not seen many off the shelf new models that are geared to senior golfers.  (I'm looking at you TaylorMade, Callaway, Titleist, etc., of the golfing world).  Everything on the floor is R or S flex.  No A or R1 flex for slower swing speeds.  That falls into a custom club that may or may not incur a charge to get depending on store.  These I can only find on the mfg site or something like eBay or through a fitter.  I can't just walk in and walk out with something new, even if I were willing to pay $400+.  Casual golf buying is geared to the younger crowd!

 

... Well that sucks but I guess it depends on where you can shop. My local PGA SS has plenty of senior options in most every club category. My local Golf Galaxy has a Senior club section. I am still between an R and S flex so senior clubs are not on my radar, but I am glad they will be available when I do need them. 

[funkyjudge]

41 minutes ago, GPS111 said:

Reading your post on the heels of a dozen others and the age range a bell.  I am 70.  Other posters have added ages or playing partner ages up to their 80's.  New club cost aside, I have not seen many off the shelf new models that are geared to senior golfers.  (I'm looking at you TaylorMade, Callaway, Titleist, etc., of the golfing world).  Everything on the floor is R or S flex.  No A or R1 flex for slower swing speeds.  That falls into a custom club that may or may not incur a charge to get depending on store.  These I can only find on the mfg site or something like eBay or through a fitter.  I can't just walk in and walk out with something new, even if I were willing to pay $400+.  Casual golf buying is geared to the younger crowd!

At my area GolfGalaxy store, it’s just the opposite. Although there are lots of S-flex options (and a small number of X-flex), there are far more high-lofted (12* and 12.5*} drivers with A-flex shafts than there options with R-flex shafts.  

I am not in the market for another new driver (I already had too many, and I won a Mizuno ST-X driver on Saturday at a charity event). However, I had to pick up some supplies at the local GolfGalaxy store yesterday, so I checked out the new 2023 models that they had in stock (not just drivers; irons, fairways and hybrids — putters, too). There were fewer R-flex drivers available than those with A-flex shafts, especially in the Ping and Callaway models that they had on-hand. Perhaps the R-flex drivers have been selling faster since their arrival, but the selection of drivers with both A-flex and S-flex shafts far outnumbered those with R-flex shafts, especially in the Ping G430 models.

Just for fun, I went into the club fitting area and hit some of the new Callaway Paradym demo drivers vs the Rogue ST Max demos that the store is offering on sale for $349 (same shaft, flex weight and length). I found that I got comparable results from the Rogue ST Max as I did with any version of the Paradym, and my spin numbers were as good with the Rogue ST Max as they were with the Paradym models (my spin numbers with the Paradym Triple Diamond were too low for my low 90s MPH clubhead speed at about 240 RPM lower than even the Rogue ST Triple Diamond driver). Of the 5 different Rogue ST and Paradym drivers that I hit, I got my best, and most consistent, results with the Rogue ST Max. If I were in the market for a “new” driver, I would buy the Rogue ST Max demo with a 9* loft and the Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 55R shaft that I hit yesterday and save myself $250.

Edited February 27, 2023 by funkyjudge

[Julius]

Performance gains will always be minor from one year to the next, if you didn't buy a driver in say 8-10  years then spend the money ONE time again (or, pick  up last years version used).  I do believe that a fitting is a great service and you should really consider that. The type of shaft and how the loft/lie variations and those different permutations together are a big deal that an expert fitter will be able to unlock for  you.  Then the $ for the club every 8-10 years starts to make sense.   One reason I prefer PING is they are not an OEM that comes out with a new driver or set of irons every year or sometimes the OEM's seem every 6 months.  So yes for me the $500-600 is too much given the almost zero game improvement for me from the club I bought 2 years ago. 

[Rickp]

2 hours ago, Micah T said:

Yeah and I totally get the numbers game the OEM’s play: they just won’t get my money for anything that is still full price.

I actually operate the exact same way for my 2nd love, snowboarding: tent sales in august before OEM’s drop new gear force retailers to liquidate everything from the season before. Hard goods, soft goods, you name it.

Ebay remains the superior alternative market for used/prior gen clubs: as long as you buy from a reputable seller with a return policy.

Agree EBay is a great place to pickup what you’re looking for but left handed is a challenge.