Are Golfers Finally Starting to Balk At Driver Prices?

[DukeStKing]

On 2/22/2023 at 11:23 AM, DukeStKing said:

I, for one, could not pull the trigger on the new $600 Paradym when I could get a Rogue Max on CPO for $350 (like new). Is 15% better dispersion really worth almost $300? For some the answer may be yes and I may regret my decision, but I can then pick up the Paradym on CPO in a year or more. 

I feel so dirty… I ended up pulling the trigger on the Paradym. My Rogue experiment lasted one fitting session at PGA SS. The spin was way down with the Paradym and the misses were much better. The ball speed was better too- i was carrying the ball 10 yards farther with the Paradym. If I settled for the Rogue, this session would be in my head  all season. I tried, but I gave in. 

On 2/22/2023 at 11:23 AM, DukeStKing said:

On 2/22/2023 at 11:23 AM, DukeStKing said:

On 2/22/2023 at 11:23 AM, DukeStKing said:

On 2/22/2023 at 11:23 AM, DukeStKing said:

Edited February 27, 2023 by DukeStKing
Copied too many times

[Hook DeLoft]

Just my two cents re: the original question.  New drivers have become too expensive for me.  For that matter, so have almost all clubs from the major OEMs.  In years past, I was a major club ho.  I can't come close to remembering how many sets of irons and drivers I've bought over the years.  I'm now retired and can't justify the expenditure.  I think a question for the OEMs is whether club ho's make up a significant portion of their business. 

Another issue is the cost for entry to the sport.  As older players leave the game because of infirmity or death, how many young people will be able to afford a new set of clubs?  The DTC companies have great products but how many  beginning golfers are aware of them?  How many new players will walk into a golf store looking to upgrade the old hand me down set they've been using and walk out without buying because of the prices?

I'll take the opportunity to gripe about another issue of golf club pricing.  As my swing speed slowly moves toward zero, I need more fairway woods and hybrids, yet those clubs are typically 2 to 3 times as expensive as single irons.  The result is I have to pay more for clubs that work with my game than a younger, faster player does.  As the saying goes, getting old ain't for sissies.

[Rickp]

3 minutes ago, DukeStKing said:

I feel so dirty… I ended up pulling the trigger on the Paradym. My Rogue experiment lasted one fitting session at PGA SS. The spin was way down with the Paradym and the misses were much better. The ball speed was better too- i was carrying the ball 10 yards farther with the Paradym. If I settled for the Rogue, this session would be in my head    all season. I tried, but I gave in. 

I feel so dirty… I ended up pulling the trigger on the Paradym. My Rogue experiment lasted one fitting session at PGA SS. The spin was way down with the Paradym and the misses were much better. The ball speed was better too- i was carrying the ball 10 yards farther with the Paradym. If I settled for the Rogue, this session would be in my head    all season. I tried, but I gave in. 

I feel so dirty… I ended up pulling the trigger on the Paradym. My Rogue experiment lasted one fitting session at PGA SS. The spin was way down with the Paradym and the misses were much better. The ball speed was better too- i was carrying the ball 10 yards farther with the Paradym. If I settled for the Rogue, this session would be in my head    all season. I tried, but I gave in. 

I feel so dirty… I ended up pulling the trigger on the Paradym. My Rogue experiment lasted one fitting session at PGA SS. The spin was way down with the Paradym and the misses were much better. The ball speed was better too- i was carrying the ball 10 yards farther with the Paradym. If I settled for the Rogue, this session would be in my head    all season. I tried, but I gave in. 

I feel so dirty… I ended up pulling the trigger on the Paradym. My Rogue experiment lasted one fitting session at PGA SS. The spin was way down with the Paradym and the misses were much better. The ball speed was better too- i was carrying the ball 10 yards farther with the Paradym. If I settled for the Rogue, this session would be in my head    all season. I tried, but I gave in. 

Hope it works out for you.

[Hook DeLoft]

I just went to tgw and picked out a nearly full set of clubs.  I chose all Cobra because they typically are slightly less expensive than other OEMs.  A driver, fairway wood, hybrid, set of steel shafted irons, sand wedge and putter came to over $2500 before tax.  That's for 12 new clubs at typical pricing.  I didn't include a bag or shoes.  Maybe there are more than enough customers for OEMs to thrive with that kind of pricing.  I dunno.

[russtopherb]

30 minutes ago, Hook DeLoft said:

Another issue is the cost for entry to the sport.  As older players leave the game because of infirmity or death, how many young people will be able to afford a new set of clubs? 

Plenty of golfers will be able to afford clubs, because they'll go the used market. 

People get concerned over the rising cost of golf clubs and what that means to the game, but the secondary market is only going to grow stronger. Someone who wants to get into the game can do so for very little money. There will always be people who want the latest and greatest, and they'll continue to drive new sales. However with so many different ways to get used clubs at a fraction of new costs (Online retailers like CPO or GlobalGolf, eBay, FB Marketplace, etc) the price of clubs isn't the barrier it's made out to be.

[Micah T]

10 hours ago, Rickp said:

Agree EBay is a great place to pickup what you’re looking for but left handed is a challenge.

I hear ya: my wife’s a 6’1 lefty which makes her tough to fit.

[Micah T]

11 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I hear ya and waiting a year or more makes perfect sense. At age 69 I am fighting a losing battle but fighting none the less and I only have so many "I'll buy next years model" left before my distance falls to where clubs/shafts won't make that much difference. So if something blows me away when released I will purchase it, but that very rarely happens. 

Totally agree, I too can be swayed on occasion. Probably not on a driver(see previous post), but I did swoon for my i59’s. And I know plenty of people who balked at that price. But they came out when I was already looking, and once at the fitting, they didn’t deter me from pulling the trigger. Timing is everything, right?

[Kansas King]

I didn't real all 8 pages of comments but the slowdown in sales is likely a more macroeconomic issue than anything else. Yes, pricing is painful but I think it's also important to compare current sales to 2019 as well relative to the number of golfers, not total dollar amount. The pandemic was a major boon for golf so comparing current sales to the last two years is kind of unrealistic. People are slowly returning to "normal" meaning they are spending money on other things like travel and eating out. There were certainly also a ton of sales to golfers the last two years that would never have been as serious about golf if it wasn't for the pandemic. We are all also spending more money due to inflation on things like insurance and utilities. The operating cost for my "average" midwestern ranch house has easily increased in cost equivalent to three or four new drivers today from just two years ago. That's money getting shoveled into the fire to never be seen again.

Throw in slow downs in wage increases, reductions in bonuses, and some layoffs as businesses are a little less worried about the labor market and you get a recipe for lower sales across the board. Everything peaked in 2021 through early 2022 and maintaining for nearly every industry has been tough. The general population can feel the economic pressures and everyone will change their buying habits. Golf is far and away one of the easiest costs to control. 

What I'm really curious of is when course memberships and green fees start regressing back to the mean. They should remain elevated for a long time and hopefully the boost in golfers helps the game long-term but I think we have some room to fall in the short-term. I was about to rejoin a private course a couple weeks ago but when I walked in I found out they raised their rates over 60%. I walked right back out. They were having a members meeting about it later that week that I need to find out how it went because rumor was that it was going to be HOT! This course is owned by a large company in the Midwest and if you are from the Midwest, you probably know which company I'm referring to. 

So yeah, there are several macroeconomic factors along with the general inflation in golf costs that aren't equipment related. Plus, golf inflation relative to most other hobbies has been incredible. Imagine if a bowling ball was $600+. The most expensive bowling ball on Bowling.com was $215. Pool cues can cost a lot but they generally can last decades. Pool players complain about spending $20 on a cue tip that lasts six months yet golfers will blow through $20 in balls in a couple rounds. Anyone who tries to argue golf isn't a luxury sport is fooling themselves. I'm thankful that I grew up playing golf and still get to even if it's not at a private club. Compare golf to non sport hobbies like woodworking and think of what tools you could buy for $600.

[drb1956]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:47 AM, Bucky CC said:

I'm in this exact dilemma right now.  I'm a little wild off the tee (who isn't) and wouldn't mind seeing what's out there.  On the other hand my Radspeed driver is only 2 years old and there's a very low probability that any of the new drivers will be a significant improvement over it.  I can guarantee if drivers were a little cheaper I would be all over a new one.  Looking at $600+ for a 2023 model ($850 for a Paradym with "stock" Ventus shaft) has me reluctant to even demo anything for fear of falling in love with something new.

I do have some shop credit though so I'm sure I'll find a way to justify hitting up some demos once the snow melts.

Maybe go get a swing evaluation, as it might help with the wildness off the tee. I am doing this in March, just to see if there is some small tweak to help me find the fairway, and greens more often. Not rebuilding my swing at 66, but a little correction to what I am doing. Just redid my bag in 2020-not buying anything for a few years down the road...

[Duffer_E]

I don't know about balking at the cost of a new driver...I think the overall cost (if you go full fitting, and stick with the results) is a very large/hard pill to swallow.

I just went to Club Champion and had a full bag fitting. I am a 21 HC; my (simplified) results were:

Driver: Srixon ZX5 Mk II 9.5

Hybrids: TaylorMade Stealth 3-5

Irons: Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal 6-GW

PW: TaylorMade Hi-Toe MilledGrind 3

Putter: Bettinardi Queen B 15 (Blade)

The Driver, Hybrids and Irons all had custom shafts (i.e. Fujikura Ventus Blue VELOCORE 6 s) -- my dispersion went from all over the fairway to tightly grouped on the middle/right. With all the bells and whistles, the total for a full bag came to $6K+!!!!

Now, if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't bat an eye and I would have a new full bag. My first car cost 1/2 of the total bag (lol). Instead, I settled for buying the Irons and a Ventus shaft for my current driver (Callaway Rogue), which came out to approximately $2.5k -- more palatable, but still on the expensive side. I intend to pick up the other clubs at the end of the season when they get discounted, and I've built up my "for fun" bank account again.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

51 minutes ago, Duffer_E said:

I don't know about balking at the cost of a new driver...I think the overall cost (if you go full fitting, and stick with the results) is a very large/hard pill to swallow.

I just went to Club Champion and had a full bag fitting. I am a 21 HC; my (simplified) results were:

Driver: Srixon ZX5 Mk II 9.5

Hybrids: TaylorMade Stealth 3-5

Irons: Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal 6-GW

PW: TaylorMade Hi-Toe MilledGrind 3

Putter: Bettinardi Queen B 15 (Blade)

The Driver, Hybrids and Irons all had custom shafts (i.e. Fujikura Ventus Blue VELOCORE 6 s) -- my dispersion went from all over the fairway to tightly grouped on the middle/right. With all the bells and whistles, the total for a full bag came to $6K+!!!!

Now, if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't bat an eye and I would have a new full bag. My first car cost 1/2 of the total bag (lol). Instead, I settled for buying the Irons and a Ventus shaft for my current driver (Callaway Rogue), which came out to approximately $2.5k -- more palatable, but still on the expensive side. I intend to pick up the other clubs at the end of the season when they get discounted, and I've built up my "for fun" bank account again.

 

Comparing club champion price for a full set to retail is apples to oranges.

1) they deal primarily in aftermarket shafts

2) they upcharge for the build

You can save a bunch of money by going directly to the oem for the same options 

Also very few people buy a full bag at one time.

[GPS111]

17 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Comparing club champion price for a full set to retail is apples to oranges.

1) they deal primarily in aftermarket shafts

2) they upcharge for the build

You can save a bunch of money by going directly to the oem for the same options 

Also very few people buy a full bag at one time.

Club Champion sure does upcharge.  They did a fitting for me and it came out a TM P790 head worked best for me with an aftermarket BadAzz shaft.  Their cost all up came to $300/club.  They wanted $185 just a head alone.  I can get a whole set of P790 direct from TM custom built to my specs including an upgrade to the grip over Club Champion for what they were charging for the head alone.

I didn't take a bite from the Club Champion apple but did get good datap that I did use somewhere else.

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:43 AM, GPS111 said:

Reading your post on the heels of a dozen others and the age range a bell.  I am 70.  Other posters have added ages or playing partner ages up to their 80's.  New club cost aside, I have not seen many off the shelf new models that are geared to senior golfers.  (I'm looking at you TaylorMade, Callaway, Titleist, etc., of the golfing world).  Everything on the floor is R or S flex.  No A or R1 flex for slower swing speeds.  That falls into a custom club that may or may not incur a charge to get depending on store.  These I can only find on the mfg site or something like eBay or through a fitter.  I can't just walk in and walk out with something new, even if I were willing to pay $400+.  Casual golf buying is geared to the younger crowd!

You should really look t the Titleist TSR1 it's designed exactly what you're looking for, or even XXIO 12 model  again targeted to the senior and slow swing spped player. 

[richk9holes]

For the record I balked at $299.99.

[Chester3488]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:43 AM, GPS111 said:

Reading your post on the heels of a dozen others and the age range a bell.  I am 70.  Other posters have added ages or playing partner ages up to their 80's.  New club cost aside, I have not seen many off the shelf new models that are geared to senior golfers.  (I'm looking at you TaylorMade, Callaway, Titleist, etc., of the golfing world).  Everything on the floor is R or S flex.  No A or R1 flex for slower swing speeds.  That falls into a custom club that may or may not incur a charge to get depending on store.  These I can only find on the mfg site or something like eBay or through a fitter.  I can't just walk in and walk out with something new, even if I were willing to pay $400+.  Casual golf buying is geared to the younger crowd!

There are many models that are designed specifically for Senior Golfers. The Cobra Air-X or Cobra Max, both designed for seniors, nearly always with an A flex shaft. Mizuno ST-X Platinum is designed for seniors. The Cleveland Launcher XL Lite Driver and Callaway Big Bertha B21 Driver are both designed for Seniors. About half the XXIO drivers are designed for seniors. Even the PING G430 comes in an HL model, which is designed for seniors. 

I actually think the opposite is hard to find. Try to find a really lightweight driver that's not designed for seniors. I happen to like the feel of a lightweight driver, but in general if you find a lightweight driver it's designed for high launch. I'd enjoy playing a lightweight low-launch driver but those are pretty rare. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

I think a good question to ask that goes with this is for those that do buy the newest releases at full price, what is the value you believe you are getting vs the prior vs that may be half the price. Is it the fit process or? Genuinely curious as someone who normally goes with a prior Model.

[GPS111]

18 minutes ago, Chester3488 said:

There are many models that are designed specifically for Senior Golfers. The Cobra Air-X or Cobra Max, both designed for seniors, nearly always with an A flex shaft. Mizuno ST-X Platinum is designed for seniors. The Cleveland Launcher XL Lite Driver and Callaway Big Bertha B21 Driver are both designed for Seniors. About half the XXIO drivers are designed for seniors. Even the PING G430 comes in an HL model, which is designed for seniors. 

I actually think the opposite is hard to find. Try to find a really lightweight driver that's not designed for seniors. I happen to like the feel of a lightweight driver, but in general if you find a lightweight driver it's designed for high launch. I'd enjoy playing a lightweight low-launch driver but those are pretty rare. 

No doubt and that wasn't what I was saying.  I know all of the major brands have an A flex.  What I m saying is I can't walk in to a store and walk out with the one I want.  Unless I go to a specialty golf store, or a fitter/custom builder, or certified aftermarket shop I can't walk in and get an A flex anything.  Dick's doesn't have them.  And depending on what brand I want not all golf stores will have them either.  Left handed A flex users probably have it worse off than I do.

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 minutes ago, GPS111 said:

No doubt and that wasn't what I was saying.  I know all of the major brands have an A flex.  What I m saying is I can't walk in to a store and walk out with the one I want.  Unless I go to a specialty golf store, or a fitter/custom builder, or certified aftermarket shop I can't walk in and get an A flex anything.  Dick's doesn't have them.  And depending on what brand I want not all golf stores will have them either.  Left handed A flex users probably have it worse off than I do.

You can order them online from the club brand you are looking for. Either go to the brands webpage, other than Ping most sell directly from their site. Or go to websites like rockbottom, tgw, carlsgolfland, dicks, golf galaxy, pgasuperstore and order what you want.

 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

22 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think a good question to ask that goes with this is for those that do buy the newest releases at full price, what is the value you believe you are getting vs the prior vs that may be half the price. Is it the fit process or? Genuinely curious as someone who normally goes with a prior Model.

This is a fantastic question that I hope to see answered. I also have always gone for prior generation clubs, as the club I am upgrading from is typically at least 3-5 years old. Or as in the case of my irons, when I decide to upgrade those I'll be going from a set manufactured in 2014, so a much larger time and potentially tech changing gap. 

 

[GPS111]

3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You can order them online from the club brand you are looking for. Either go to the brands webpage, other than Ping most sell directly from their site. Or go to websites like rockbottom, tgw, carlsgolfland, dicks, golf galaxy, pgasuperstore and order what you want.

 

Agreed.  On line all is in play.  It is the walk in off the shelf get it today option seniors miss out on.  I've filled my bag via on-line sales.  But that helps me after some delivery date.  It does not help me today.  R and S flex and even women's options are more prevalent on store floors.  Every once in awhile I find that one senior flex club/ nugget a shop gets before someone else does but to fill a bag it takes on-line.

[chisag]

44 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think a good question to ask that goes with this is for those that do buy the newest releases at full price, what is the value you believe you are getting vs the prior vs that may be half the price. Is it the fit process or? Genuinely curious as someone who normally goes with a prior Model.

 

... I think there are multiple answers to this question. I would never spend $80 on a new Footjoy shirt when they routinely sell for $29-$35 the next season. But I would buy a new driver at full price if I felt it would be an improvement over what I am playing. I have said this before but at age 70 I don't have many "buy the previous years driver with the previous years swing" left in me. I don't gamble, don't drink (crazy $ savings) and I have the disposable income at this point in my life so saving $100 on a golf club is irrelevant to me. 

... That said, I am not chasing distance thinking the new Stealth2 (or any new driver) will be 10yds farther than my Sim2 so I would have to love the look, feel and sound with the potential of a little better dispersion and/or potentially a few more yards to buy a new driver. I picked up a Stealth with a silly low bid on Ebay last year and was shocked I won. But after playing it a month sometimes rotating my Sim2, I sold it as I just liked my Sim2 more. 

 

[Chester3488]

52 minutes ago, GPS111 said:

 It is the walk in off the shelf get it today option seniors miss out on.  

That's really interesting. It must be a regional thing. Here where I live there are 2 Dicks sporting goods, A Golf Galaxy and a PGA Superstore all chock full of lightweight senior shafts on 12.5 degree drivers. 

[Chester3488]

1 hour ago, GPS111 said:

No doubt and that wasn't what I was saying.  I know all of the major brands have an A flex.  What I m saying is I can't walk in to a store and walk out with the one I want.  Unless I go to a specialty golf store, or a fitter/custom builder, or certified aftermarket shop I can't walk in and get an A flex anything.  Dick's doesn't have them.  And depending on what brand I want not all golf stores will have them either.  Left handed A flex users probably have it worse off than I do.

By the way, it isn't always just an A flex. The XXIO, the Cobra Air-X, The Mizuno ST-X Platinum and The PING HL are all designed with Seniors in mind. They are made to be lighter, launch higher, slightly higher spin, and designed to be fitted to an extra lightweight shaft. 

They are truly "designed" for seniors. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think a good question to ask that goes with this is for those that do buy the newest releases at full price, what is the value you believe you are getting vs the prior vs that may be half the price. Is it the fit process or? Genuinely curious as someone who normally goes with a prior Model.

Sometimes buying new is just to test the latest and greatest that’s out from certain brands. Yes that’s and expensive test but it’s also fun and I enjoy blind buys or some quick testing of loft and shaft combo on the range and then buy.

But yes the fitting process and comparing to current and see if there’s any performance or when I want something new regardless of any performance gains or not. Sometimes just something new and different is needed to break up the playing of the same club round after round.

Has nothing to do with value whether financial or performance, new and shiny is nice

[Chester3488]

17 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Sometimes buying new is just to test the latest and greatest that’s out from certain brands. Yes that’s and expensive test but it’s also fun and I enjoy blind buys or some quick testing of loft and shaft combo on the range and then buy.

But yes the fitting process and comparing to current and see if there’s any performance or when I want something new regardless of any performance gains or not. Sometimes just something new and different is needed to break up the playing of the same club round after round.

Has nothing to do with value whether financial or performance, new and shiny is nice

I hear you. I love shiny things. 

I'll play my irons for 10 years, but my driver is rarely more than 2 years old. 

Every other year for wedges too. 

[Weekend_Warrior]

I didn't read all 9 pages of this thread so if this has been stated, my apologies. 

Sometimes I wonder if the higher prices are a way for manufacturers to continue selling older models at a higher price. $600 for the brand new model, but hey here is last years for $500, or two years ago model for $400.

[Bang60]

I bought a new callaway erc ll in a huge super sports store in Tokyo around 2001, I was there on a business trip and decided the 2nd day there I wanted to go shopping for golf gear. I was staying near Nerita airport and asked the guy at the desk where to go and how to get there, with his help I used the hotel shuttle to and fro easy peasy. It just happened that Callaway had just launched a new driver and erc ll was on sale and when I worked out how much from Yen to Aussie it was about $200 Aussie, after alot of yes/no questions re how to get it to Vietnam and Thailand then Sydney where I lived about an hour later I bought it and they gave me a box and I was off. When I arrived at Nerita and checked the box they wanted to look at the golf club so opened the box and all good so they then said they would talk to the Captain Pilot and ask him to carry the golf club on board for me which he did, but that included 3 flights with 3 different airlines and I thought that would be the last time I would see that Driver. It arrived in Sydney 2 weeks before I did in one piece which was amazing … reading this topic reminded me of how that happened so long ago, thanks to all who posted…

Moral of my story is no I wouldn’t pay dollar for a new club but BUY it as I’ve said above  

Edited March 10, 2023 by Bang60
Added

[Tbonia]

Finally ? I’ve balked at driver prices since I can remember ! I’ve always bought late model used drivers. I just can’t justify the price of the newer ones.


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[ScramblinMan]

Usually I won't buy "this years greatest newest revolutionary" product of the year, but I recently attended a Callaway Demo day and the only reason I pulled the trigger on the Paridym driver and 5 wood was because I was offered an additional 50% to trade in my 4 year old Mavrik driver and 3 wood.  Also when fitted for those clubs my swing was almost 10 mph faster so I wanted something a little lighter and less stiff. I agree with prices being exorbitant at this stage but if people are willing to pay these prices, then the manufacturers are going to continue to keep increasing (supply and demand)!

[SlikHands]

I am not balking because I want the latest and greatest (CHO fo sho), however, my wife is definitely balking.