LA Golf - will they become a significant player in the golf industry?

[cnosil]

I have always thought of LA Golf as a minor player in the golf industry specializing in shafts.  Over the past year, they have started branching out into balls and putters.  We’ve seen threads about the mega expensive $1500 putter, but it is my understanding that they will be coming out with putters in the $400/$500 range that would put them in the same price bracket as todays higher end brands and still come with the LA Golf graphite shaft .
 

What is interesting is that LA Golf has purchased Sik putter; so they seem to be making a play to expand. 

https://golf.com/gear/putters/la-golf-acquires-sik-golf-releases-premium-putter
 

the Sik descending face technology has been used in Cobra putters.  Will. LA Golf still allow them to leverage that technology as they try to build their own brand?  

while I don’t think LA Golf will become a top 5 company, where will they end up?  With Bryson on the team I envision them coming out with single length clubs and trying to fulfill his recent tweet about drivers that can handle the 200 MPH ball speeds.  Tony Covey tweeted about it possibly making sense for Bryson to start his own company, but I think LA Golf may have the necessary financial backing to make it a reality.  TM Stealth has a Carbon face, will LA Golf give us carbon irons and larger percentage carbon woods?  
 

[Headhammer]

I don't think there is anything stopping them from becoming a mid-size player in the industry. However, even with prices coming down to $4-$500, it's going to be tough to get a large share of the casual golfers when they are used to paying $200 for the big OEM putters.

[RickyBobby_PR]

When it comes to clubs and balls it’s a tough market to get into and gain traction. Their name and who they have as investors/owners and their presence on tours may help but more than likely they will be in the less than 10% market share group. How much can they take from Cleveland/Srixon, cobra, Mizuno, pxg for clubs? How much can they take from bridgeston, Srixon in the ball market.

Even is shafts it’s going to be hard to get market share from PX, Mitsubishi, fujikura, kbs, Nippon when they all have a good assortment of stock options across all the brands? They will probably be more like graphite design, Accra in the higher end shafts.

[cnosil]

35 minutes ago, Headhammer said:

I don't think there is anything stopping them from becoming a mid-size player in the industry. However, even with prices coming down to $4-$500, it's going to be tough to get a large share of the casual golfers when they are used to paying $200 for the big OEM putters.

You think putters are still in the $200 range?  Yes there are some but a quick search shows Cameron, Evnroll, Ping, and Odyssey in the $350-$500 range.   

[Headhammer]

Your average golfer is not buying a Cameron and has never heard of Evnroll. Online golf shops have the Cleveland putters stating at $159 and the Odysseys are $259.

[RickyBobby_PR]

46 minutes ago, Headhammer said:

Your average golfer is not buying a Cameron and has never heard of Evnroll. Online golf shops have the Cleveland putters stating at $159 and the Odysseys are $259.

Hmm Cameron’s are usually 1 or 2 in sales with Callaway. 
 

 

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, Headhammer said:

Your average golfer is not buying a Cameron and has never heard of Evnroll. Online golf shops have the Cleveland putters stating at $159 and the Odysseys are $259.

Also like drivers there's noting wrong with buying a new 'last year's' model (I paid $125 for my new last year's model Odyssey putter). Would I pay 400-500 probably not - but then I'm not their target audience.  The $1,500 LA Putter reminds of PXG's initial marketing thrust which was high end and now you see their very competitive offerings.  

[tony@CIC]

21 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Hmm Cameron’s are usually 1 or 2 in sales with Callaway. 
 

 

Number of putters sold or total dales volume

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

 The $1,500 LA Putter reminds of PXG's initial marketing thrust which was high end and now you see their very competitive offerings.  

Yes, They have a $1500 putter.  Their standard putters are $499 and $599 with an LA Golf shaft that lists for $410.  

https://lagolf.co/collections/putters

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Number of putters sold or total dales volume

It’s been about 4 years since I’ve seen a quarterly or annual report so I don’t recall the metric used. I want to say it was % of market share but I don’t recall any oem releases number of units sold

[fozcycle]

A guy I played with yesterday has an odyssey with the graphite/steel shaft. Well, it broke during the round so he putted the rest with his 6 iron. His putting actually improved. I guess it was because he had to concentrate on each putt. The combo shafts are not better than steel.

[ChuckZ]

Interesting to see how this plays out.  I am sure they have done the demographics on a particular market share and hope they can capitalize on that percentage of the large market that is out there.  I looked at their home page and their basic putter is like most on the market that have copied the Anser and they will customize for around $2500, as will Cameron.  Cameron, TM, Callaway, and Ping dominate the tour and a lot of folks want what the pros are playing.  All my clubs are Titleist except my putters.  I own a Cameron Newport 2 and a Ping Anser and play both depending on the greens.  See they do have a few Professional investors.  Bryson and Johnson, which are playing the LIV tour.  Michelle Wie's name appears on their clubs but do not think she is a major name on the tour any longer.  Only time will tell.  As most have said, mid range player a best, but I figure they know their market already and are looking for those who are not afraid to spend the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  As the old saying goes, it is more about the Indian than the arrow, and I might add, lots of practice.  Hakuna matata.         

[Dog Faced Pony Soldier]

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

Yes, They have a $1500 putter.  Their standard putters are $499 and $599 with an LA Golf shaft that lists for $410.  

https://lagolf.co/collections/putters

 

 

Just like drivers; the oem LAGP Putter shaft *could* be different than their aftermarket putter shaft. 

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, fozcycle said:

A guy I played with yesterday has an odyssey with the graphite/steel shaft. Well, it broke during the round so he putted the rest with his 6 iron. His putting actually improved. I guess it was because he had to concentrate on each putt. The combo shafts are not better than steel.

Where did the shaft break? Did it actually snap? Did the epoxy between the graphite and steel section fail?  LA Golf putter shafts seems to be appearing in mor tour player putters and I think as more young players come on tour they will continue to grow in usage.   

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

Just like drivers; the oem LAGP Putter shaft *could* be different than their aftermarket putter shaft. 

I could be. The description says it comes with the P-series 135 shaft which is their production model.  

[OldSchoolWes]

At the PGA Show I spent some time with these folks. They lean heavily on the Bryson D and Dustin J investments as a way to credential their very expensive product-line. The $2500 or whatever putter experiment seems a wish-casting foray. There’s an element of arrogance with the group that might not be justified. I’ve hit a few of the shafts, in three long clubs including Driver. Simply put, not worth the 40% and up premium.  I don’t see it. But ya know, “Bryson owns some of the company along w DJ!”  Hmm…

[cnosil]

29 minutes ago, ChuckZ said:

Interesting to see how this plays out.  I am sure they have done the demographics on a particular market share and hope they can capitalize on that percentage of the large market that is out there.  I looked at their home page and their basic putter is like most on the market that have copied the Anser and they will customize for around $2500, as will Cameron.  Cameron, TM, Callaway, and Ping dominate the tour and a lot of folks want what the pros are playing.  All my clubs are Titleist except my putters.  I own a Cameron Newport 2 and a Ping Anser and play both depending on the greens.  See they do have a few Professional investors.  Bryson and Johnson, which are playing the LIV tour.  Michelle Wie's name appears on their clubs but do not think she is a major name on the tour any longer.  Only time will tell.  As most have said, mid range player a best, but I figure they know their market already and are looking for those who are not afraid to spend the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  As the old saying goes, it is more about the Indian than the arrow, and I might add, lots of practice.  Hakuna matata.         

Yes, they have an anser and #7 style putter just like most manufacturers.  The $2500 version is a different model.  Aside from the players/investors you mentioned players are using their shafts.  For example Tom Kim who is becoming one of the tours most popular players uses a Cameron putter and LA Golf shaft.   

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, OldSchoolWes said:

At the PGA Show I spent some time with these folks. They lean heavily on the Bryson D and Dustin J investments as a way to credential their very expensive product-line. The $2500 or whatever putter experiment seems a wish-casting foray. There’s an element of arrogance with the group that might not be justified. I’ve hit a few of the shafts, in three long clubs including Driver. Simply put, not worth the 40% and up premium.  I don’t see it. But ya know, “Bryson owns some of the company along w DJ!”  Hmm…

Interesting g perspective, don’t focus on the $2500 putter,  they have options in the $500 range.   And yes, Bryson and DJ could be a turnoff for some people.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolWes said:

At the PGA Show I spent some time with these folks. They lean heavily on the Bryson D and Dustin J investments as a way to credential their very expensive product-line. The $2500 or whatever putter experiment seems a wish-casting foray. There’s an element of arrogance with the group that might not be justified. I’ve hit a few of the shafts, in three long clubs including Driver. Simply put, not worth the 40% and up premium.  I don’t see it. But ya know, “Bryson owns some of the company along w DJ!”  Hmm…

There’s a market for high end putters, if they can offer something that the ones on that market like and it catches on they can do a good amount of sales. Scotty has the name recognition and his $8000+ putters sell out as soon as they hit the website just like the $2500 and $3500 ones do.

While the shaft may not fit you or the performance wasn’t worth the money for you it doesn’t mean they don’t work for others which if you read wrx some like them.

There are no upcharge shafts and upcharge shafts from fujikura, Mitsubishi and others that performed the same for me and others that don’t. Doenst mean they aren’t good or worth the price for someone else

[release]

Average golfer don't get the equipment at no cost/low cost as the sponsored professionals.  exposure on the professional tour has little to do with the average golfers.  As pie in the sky.

If we ask the "average golfers" to shell out $500-$1200 for a golf shaft, they must be either have plenty to spend or they'll budget the sum from other places in their plan.  No one I know will not spend this kind of money ( their monthly budget for golf ) for a golf shaft without blinking an eye.

If they're trying to expand into a broader segment of the golf industry, they must secure financial backing in the first place.  Or they'll be selling off cheap to someone just as they had eaten the putter company.

Best to concentrate either on the top 0.01% of the market at a high range price point of mass consumers at the 80% of the lower price range.  I don't think they have the ability to take on both at this point of time.

[cnosil]

11 minutes ago, release said:

Average golfer don't get the equipment at no cost/low cost as the sponsored professionals.  exposure on the professional tour has little to do with the average golfers.  

This was the knock on PXG and they seem to be doing pretty well and are appearing in more average player bags.   For those deeper into the details of golf equipment there is probably less Tour influence, but from my discussions and what I hear about golf sales, the pro tour has a direct influence on what people actually buy.   The buyer that walks into the store and buys what Tiger or their favorite player plays is probably greater than most people think.   

[PMookie]

Let’s look and see whose place they would take in the industry: Not Titleist, TM, Callaway or Ping. Then we have Cobra, Mizuno, Cleveland/Srixon/XXIO, PXG, etc. Then we get to big companies with small golf portions like Wilson. Then Miura, Honma, Japanese brands. 
Which of these does LA Golf replace/resemble in the long run? 
Just look at what small percentage of the market each of those companies have across each part of the market. Like Mizuno. Great in the irons category, but drivers, wedges, putters and balls are lacking. Srixon does well with balls and irons, Cleveland wedges, but other categories not so much. Cobra? Drivers, irons, not wedges, putters, etc! LA Golf isn’t going to supplant ANY of these major players in ANY category ESPECIALLY/even with Bryson. Those behemoth golf companies have tried for years to grow market share across all lines and still can’t make a dent (Mizuno drivers), so with all these examples I don’t see LA Golf as anything other than small potatoes.

[RickyBobby_PR]

20 minutes ago, release said:

Average golfer don't get the equipment at no cost/low cost as the sponsored professionals.  exposure on the professional tour has little to do with the average golfers.  As pie in the sky.

If we ask the "average golfers" to shell out $500-$1200 for a golf shaft, they must be either have plenty to spend or they'll budget the sum from other places in their plan.  No one I know will not spend this kind of money ( their monthly budget for golf ) for a golf shaft without blinking an eye.

If they're trying to expand into a broader segment of the golf industry, they must secure financial backing in the first place.  Or they'll be selling off cheap to someone just as they had eaten the putter company.

Best to concentrate either on the top 0.01% of the market at a high range price point of mass consumers at the 80% of the lower price range.  I don't think they have the ability to take on both at this point of time.

Tour presence has a large impact on golf sales from the average golfer community.

Actually they can. Look at PXG a an example. They went after the market of golfers who either didn’t care about money or those who were willing to spend for performance. They now have both a high end and low end offering.

Then we can look at Scotty Cameron who has mass produced putters and limited release somewhat mass produced releases that come out a few times a year and then the circle t putters that are limited quantity online and in store.

Titlest has done it with the TMB irons and the cncpt irons(these were limited release of 1000 and sold out)

Shaft companies have this with low end and high end priced shafts. 
 

It’s neither not common or not undoable.

[Dog Faced Pony Soldier]

I will add that my latest driver fitting proved a LAGP “DJ Signature Series” (and 8* TSR3) was the best option tested for me. I love this new build!
i did also add a LAGP P Series SOHO to my new Evnroll too. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Dog Faced Pony Soldier

[Bogeys ov]

I think Brysons next Staff deal(or lack of) will be very telling. Also if Bryson, and potentially DJ start to play the LA ball.

[release]

35 minutes ago, cnosil said:

This was the knock on PXG and they seem to be doing pretty well and are appearing in more average player bags.   For those deeper into the details of golf equipment there is probably less Tour influence, but from my discussions and what I hear about golf sales, the pro tour has a direct influence on what people actually buy.   The buyer that walks into the store and buys what Tiger or their favorite player plays is probably greater than most people think.   

You are probably correct in your observation. However, does this rule apply to the majority of the golfers who will be the majority of the consumers spending and supporting the equipment industry?  

How many average golfers do you know who will tee up with a new ProV1 golf ball every round?  They all like to use the equipment which the professionals use, but would they be able to benefit from it and most of all affordable ?  Lets not forgetting the majority of the golfers are retired folks with fixed income.  hey golf because this is where they allocated their disposable income, not because they have plenty to spend.

Most the golfers I know ( public facility golfers ) are budget conscious.  

Yes PXG had been seen on the public golf course instead of being an endangered species.  Why?  The special deal with the military personnel especially with the retired veterans.   I have no idea if that sweet deal is still available, but BOGO deal prompted many to get it and sell the second set to recover some of the cost involved ( yes, even at a deep discount it was still out of reach for some of them ).

One local group has many of the retired vets and they all turned around and resale their free second set.  The resale value of the PXG has dropped significantly since a couple of years ago.  The myth of holding the value had been busted.  It is, just another piece of golf equipment although it is of good quality and well made.  

Question is, Where is the balance point for reaching out to most of the golfers for price point/affordability and profitability?  Since you brought up the example of PXG, now we start to see many of the boutique golf equipment companies mushroomed up in the last few years and it is a 2 billion dollar industry now.  Whether these smaller companies could sustain the necessary cost to finance the R&D for future expansion?  Or would they all use the stream line solution of the vendor in China who has access to use the super computer for computer Aided Design and production?  Pay a set of research fee and they will come up with options, select the preferred options and order the minimum quantity of components.  Assemble the golf components here as most of the large OEM had been practicing.

This out-sourcing will shift the R&D to outside of this country.  It will take years to bring it back if there is ever a need.

Do all the OEM see the end of the R&D since the current equipment has achieve near the conforming limit set by the U.S.G.A. ?  If so, then there is not much excitement left  in the future release of new models?

Taylormade had broken the mold of releasing new equipment every 2-3 years to keep up the interest level of the consumers .  Like having a meal in a restaurant, instead of bring up a dish or two every 10-15 minutes, It spread out everything on a buffet table.  Basically killed the market but gave it a supercharged start.

There be new golfers and those wannabe who will buy the same equipment the professionals use, but that will be the minority of the golfers in general.  Not many golfers I know would make the same golf ball used by Tiger Woods woks for them.  Cheap fantasy for $60.

 

 

[CTQuinn26]

Sooo speaking as an average golfer (One 9 hole or 18 hole round a weekend, hit the driving range once a week, putting at the house, high handicap) I think the lab putters are interesting and make me raise and eyebrow of curiosity but the cost might turn me away…

Scotty has always been a “dream” of my mind to have. And that’s already me deep exhaling at how I’m gonna explain to my wife I spent 350-400 bucks on a putter.

If they want to make it with the big boys I would
Think they would take a page out of Taylormades book and double down on their advertising and make it as strong as possible for that standpoint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Mad Bomber]

The golf business is a tough nut to crack and market share takes time. But I think that part of the exorbitant price model is just for brand recognition. Like the old saying that 'all press is good press'. I remember the animosity towards PXG for the idiotic prices they were charging for clubs at first release. People were genuinely angry, but nobody forgot the name PXG. And since the product is good, they've become a player in the industry now that prices have come down.

Reed Dickens has talked openly about that model and how PXG proved that consumers will fork out a hell of a lot of money for a product if it's done right. That was the ideology behind the $1500 putter launch and it seems to be going according to plan. Don't forget, he took on the major bat manufacturers with Marucci and now has the most popular bat in the Majors. Couple that with the fact that LA Golf isn't just starting from scratch, they bough Matrix Shafts and all the tooling and I wouldn't underestimate the company. Their shafts are awesome.

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, CTQuinn26 said:

Scotty has always been a “dream” of my mind to have. And that’s already me deep exhaling at how I’m gonna explain to my wife I spent 350-400 bucks on a putter.

If I was to drop 400-500 on a Lab putter (that 1200 one is not an option in my world) I would want to see it significantly improve my game.

 

Let me ask you a question which ties to @releaseresponse above.  Why is a Scotty a dream to have.  It may not be the best putter for you sowhy not find the putter that works best for you.  Why does everyone want a Scotty?  
 

Your post is  about LAB Golf which is not the same company LA Golf which is what this thread is referencing.  But your point is valid that LAB has kind of a cult following and people seem willing to spend more on those putters than the LA Golf putters.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, release said:

How many average golfers do you know who will tee up with a new ProV1 golf ball every round?  They all like to use the equipment which the professionals use, but would they be able to benefit from it and most of all affordable ?  Lets not forgetting the majority of the golfers are retired folks with fixed income.  hey golf because this is where they allocated their disposable income, not because they have plenty to spend.

The equipment played on tour is what your find at retail, the difference is the average golfer doesn’t have the swing speed or strength to play the same shaft weight or flex the tour uses. Pings i20,210,230 are the most popular irons for Ping staff on tour, those are borderline gi clubs. There are a good number of 10.5° drivers along with what are marketed as more forgiving drivers used. The biggest difference in what’s at retail and on tour is that clubs on tour is digitally measured and shafts are weight sorted.

 

6 minutes ago, release said:

Question is, Where is the balance point for reaching out to most of the golfers for price point/affordability and profitability?  Since you brought up the example of PXG, now we start to see many of the boutique golf equipment companies mushroomed up in the last few years and it is a 2 billion dollar industry now.  Whether these smaller companies could sustain the necessary cost to finance the R&D for future expansion?  Or would they all use the stream line solution of the vendor in China who has access to use the super computer for computer Aided Design and production?  Pay a set of research fee and they will come up with options, select the preferred options and order the minimum quantity of components.  Assemble the golf components here as most of the large OEM had been practicing.

The smaller dtc will only do more of cosmetic design changes and mainly use blanks as the staring point 

7 minutes ago, release said:

This out-sourcing will shift the R&D to outside of this country.  It will take years to bring it back if there is ever a need.

Do all the OEM see the end of the R&D since the current equipment has achieve near the conforming limit set by the U.S.G.A. ?  If so, then there is not much excitement left  in the future release of new models?

Highly doubt companies are going to outsource their r&d work. Also r&d money is less in the budget than marketing. The drivers that come out in 5 years are being worked on now, and it’s not just about improvement in design but in manufacturing processes.

10 minutes ago, release said:

There be new golfers and those wannabe who will buy the same equipment the professionals use, but that will be the minority of the golfers in general.  Not many golfers I know would make the same golf ball used by Tiger Woods woks for them.  Cheap fantasy for $60.

Again what you are buying in retail is the same as what’s on tour. Titleist released two tour only balls to retail that have less than 20 pros using them and they have done well at retail. You would be surprised how many people can actually play the ball Tiger uses which is actually at retail