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PGA 2024: New Designated Event Format


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On paper most of the changes appear to create more problems than they might solve (besides calendar year seasons). But I expect the PGAT to know what they are doing (or at least they should), and I will try not to have an opinion until I observe a negative/positive change.

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Anyone that wants to debate or talk about this issue should have to listen to the No Laying Up Podcast and their interview with Peter Malnati before stating their opinion on the subject.

It provides so much insight into what is actually happening and how the tour and the players went about coming up with the new system. 

It sounds really promising

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11 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Even if it is broken down to both have no cuts in this situation, that is where it stops. You can play your way into those no cut events. The no cut events are on 8 I believe vs the 14 or more that is on LIV. The field size is 30+ more than LIV which is huge difference. 

A few points were made by Peter which made some sense. Golfers will still play the majority of their events in Cut events. A normal schedule being 18ish events. With 8 of those being non cut the remained will be cut events. 

I do believe this gives LIV more of a step to getting OWGR which fair enough. The whole system after this change should probably be redone again. 

The data showed a churn rate of 67 (I believe) stay in the top year over year and the remaining we see a change in who is there or goes up and down. Which I think is fantastic. He also talked about how growing the field size would would hurt that and what that data showed. 

I would still like to see say a top 50 cut after Saturday, but again am more willing to see this play out and what happens before jumping to be overly pro or against it. 

The elevated events is a good idea, but having no cuts is a blunder. The Tour is giving ammo to LIV unnecessarily. 

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6 hours ago, smohan215 said:

I actually hadn't considered the OWGR angle before - but wouldn't it be the opposite? (full disclosure: I could be completely misunderstanding this)

 

The OWGR points are awarded in eligible tournaments (which designated events should be) based on position and strength of field. Seems like a solid solution for ranking players in a bunch of different tours and events with varying strengths of field. So as a recent example, Chris Kirk earned 31.24231 points for winning The Honda Classic and Max Homa earned 40.31926 for his 2nd place at The Genesis Invitational. Makes sense because the top ranked players at Honda were 18-20 while Genesis had all of the Top 10 and most of the Top 50 players competing - the strength of field was drastically different.

But won't that be the case at every designated event? Those should always have the greatest strength of field (which is part of the whole selling point, right?) since it will be the Top 50 previous season + Top 10 Current, otherwise + Current season winners, etc. But when you couple that with no-cut... now you have a not-so-hypothetical world #43 Kevin Kisner who's clever enough to know he makes money and earns OWGR and FedEx Cup points no matter what, while world #47 Jason Day (but #114 at the end of last season) potentially sits home an extra 8 weeks a year.

I picked Jason Day (OWGR stats) semi-randomly, but he's actually a good example. He was ranked #114 at the end of last season so would be ineligible for designated events that way. He finished T18 at the AMEX and T7 at Farmer's earning him ~11.8 OWGR points and ranking him #92; so he's still ineligible for WM Phoenix or Genesis (assuming the speculation is correct and those are both designated events) outside of sponsor exemptions or getting lucky with the math. So Jason Day sits home for two weeks instead of finishing 5 at WM Phoenix and T9 at Genesis (earning ~25 OWGR points and moving to #46).

 

I just don't see how this doesn't turn into a "the rich get richer" scenario. Sure there's compensations for current-season winners and top points-earners between designated events... but the majority of your 70-78 player field (Top 50 from the previous season) are locked in for 8 no-cut events which earns them points with any result besides a withdrawal. I concede it will only be 1-2 points if they finish last, but that's more than 0 points - and in the Jason Day example, those are the exact events players need to be in to move up the rankings - those are the events that allow for a player to move up the rankings in a meaningful way.

I mean if we're seeing the gap widen between a Kevin Kisner over a Jason Day, what's that going to look like for a Joel Dahmen, Anirban Lahiri, Rickie Fowler, or Kevin Na? To me, it seems like they'd have to grind even more: playing all 3 non-designated events (with cuts) in hopes of getting to the 2 designated events. More weeks on the road with potentially no income... which was one of the actually sympathetic arguments the LIV players made - the grind on tour is brutal and can break you financially.

 

Maybe I've got the math all wrong, but it looks like it will insulate the top players while making it a lot more challenging for players "on the bubble".

Good summary. And Jason is a really good example.  His comments yesterday weren't so made for TV and my take is that he's not a fan of the change.  He, like a healthy dozen or so on tour are big time fan favorites who are at that point in their careers where odds are stacked against them playing the "inner circle" events.  And to think this whole sh**sh** could have been avoided had the the leaders of the PGA and LIV tour not had such acrid distain for one another. 

7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I would really encourage you to listen to the podcast from NLU. Please! It gives a great perspective. 

Again this could help LIV. By having more no cut events it may help them get OWGR faster?

I did, thanks.  Adding the link for others who might want to listen to the discussion.  His comment "you still have to play your way into them", as it pertains to the DE's and those being, in effect, free, big bucks to the top players, doesn't change the fact that it will still be free, big bucks to a large group of players.  Also, I found his comment about possibly never playing another Arnold Palmer or Memorial event sucking, actually does suck.  As a fan, I like seeing and following many of the lower half of the typical fields.  Not seeing many of them in these historic events loses its appeal for me.  Lastly, he makes a good point about the LIV players not having to "earn their way in".  That is true but given that LIV is just starting out and developing a player base, that will change.  

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3 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Anyone that wants to debate or talk about this issue should have to listen to the No Laying Up Podcast and their interview with Peter Malnati before stating their opinion on the subject.

It provides so much insight into what is actually happening and how the tour and the players went about coming up with the new system. 

It sounds really promising

I listened to that this morning. Great pod!

Soly made a great point in regards to the comparision of these new "no-cut" events and the LIV model. 
The biggest difference is that these are still competitive events that you have to play your way into, you're not guaranteed a spot just because you signed a contract.

So in essence, there's is a kinda pseudo-cut, it just happens before the event.

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8 hours ago, Splatt said:

 

So in essence, there's is a kinda pseudo-cut, it just happens before the event.

This was a good point and also one that stuck with me. 

I still believe a Saturday cut to take out 20 or so guys is fine too. Play 2somes Sunday and those who realistically who are out can go have some family time.

 

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6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

This was a good point and also one that stuck with me. 

I still believe a Saturday cut to take out 20 or so guys is fine too. Play 2somes Sunday and those who realistically who are out can go have some family time.

 

Overall as a viewer the no-cut on a limited field event doesn't make much of a difference. It just seems like a bad move in it gives LIV more credibility. The Tour could still have a small cut (even bottom-10), pay out some prize money to those who missed the cut, and kept LIV from getting a small win on the issue.

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16 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Good summary. And Jason is a really good example.  His comments yesterday weren't so made for TV and my take is that he's not a fan of the change.  He, like a healthy dozen or so on tour are big time fan favorites who are at that point in their careers where odds are stacked against them playing the "inner circle" events.  And to think this whole sh**sh** could have been avoided had the the leaders of the PGA and LIV tour not had such acrid distain for one another. 

I did, thanks.  Adding the link for others who might want to listen to the discussion.  His comment "you still have to play your way into them", as it pertains to the DE's and those being, in effect, free, big bucks to the top players, doesn't change the fact that it will still be free, big bucks to a large group of players.  Also, I found his comment about possibly never playing another Arnold Palmer or Memorial event sucking, actually does suck.  As a fan, I like seeing and following many of the lower half of the typical fields.  Not seeing many of them in these historic events loses its appeal for me.  Lastly, he makes a good point about the LIV players not having to "earn their way in".  That is true but given that LIV is just starting out and developing a player base, that will change.  

It's a great day in golf!!!  But it is interesting how we are being herded -- it's not about the designated, mini-majors.  It's about the resulting DP USA Tour.

  • Comments like Pepperell's are minor.  There are not that many new, no-cut tournaments and, as he says, those participating don't need the kick-in-the-ass experience anyway.
  • Malnati's opinions are all founded on the accuracy of the PGATour models.  Depends on the quality of their mathematicians.
  • It's a great day because next year I, a non-partisan fan of golf, get to watch great golfers whom I miss on LIV during the PGATour "off" weeks.  Not to mention some LPGA as well.
  • Forces OWGR to give points to LIV and get their top players back into the majors

*** PGATour announces: the Kimberly-Clark Kotex Open (nee' Honda Classic) will now be hosted by Justin Thomas and remain the beginning of the Florida swing ***

Technical- Assuming the pods of 5 {des, des, non, non, non} makeup of the Tour schedule, I'm watching LIV on the 3rd weeks.  There will be no one playing in them.

Fundamental- The "clam bake" is dead.

  • between Torrey Pines and Riviera makes it DP USA
  • annoying fans with lame comedy and celebrities
  • marginal weather when we Yankees are tuning in the LIV tournament in Mexico or the Caribbean
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Yes, a great day!  Can't wait to watch Captain America playing again!

 

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I do not agree with the not cut format. 

A player shooting over par can still be in the tournament, when he would normally be cut.  No cut rule takes away a young aspiring player's chance to move up in the standings.  I do not want to watch  a player shooting over par versus a player several strokes under par.

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PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan to the PGA Tour Players outside the top 50:

 

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in my naivety, about 8 years ago I asked my Canadian Golf Hall of Fame friend, "how do I get on all the teams that you play on?" his answer was perfect and speaks to what is going on in the professional golf landscape today, "play better golf!!"

So how do you get into the elevated events? Play better golf....

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2 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Hard disagree.

The players outside the top 50 are actually in a better place within this new model.

"The better players get more money"

Yeah, as they should.  Want more money?  Play better

Agree and disagree.  for sure... more money for better golf.  But there is also some exclusion in the announcment for players holding a tour card - which limits the opportunity to "play better golf".  A tour card used to mean equal chance for all PGA events.. Now there are events that exclude tour card holders.  I'm not saying I disagree with the new direction.  Saying that it is a change from tradition.

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10 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Agree and disagree.  for sure... more money for better golf.  But there is also some exclusion in the announcment for players holding a tour card - which limits the opportunity to "play better golf".  A tour card used to mean equal chance for all PGA events.. Now there are events that exclude tour card holders.  I'm not saying I disagree with the new direction.  Saying that it is a change from tradition.

But that is what got the PGA Tour in this predicament

Too many events with no clear delineation about the important events

Too big of fields

No way to force the top players to play in the same events.

I think NLU did such an incredible job of explaining why these changes are BETTER for the 50-200th ranked players in the world.

The Status Quo was NOT an option

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10 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Agree and disagree.  for sure... more money for better golf.  But there is also some exclusion in the announcment for players holding a tour card - which limits the opportunity to "play better golf".  A tour card used to mean equal chance for all PGA events.. Now there are events that exclude tour card holders.  I'm not saying I disagree with the new direction.  Saying that it is a change from tradition.

from what I hear, there are 24 opportunities for the "players holding a tour card" to play better golf

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Would Kitayama be holding the API trophy if we were under next year's rules?, or would it be Rory?

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22 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Agree and disagree.  for sure... more money for better golf.  But there is also some exclusion in the announcment for players holding a tour card - which limits the opportunity to "play better golf".  A tour card used to mean equal chance for all PGA events.. Now there are events that exclude tour card holders.  I'm not saying I disagree with the new direction.  Saying that it is a change from tradition.

Most of the below 100 ranked players have no effect on the main tournaments anyway. The Tour needed to update its model which is still based on a 1940s world. The top players are the draw so they need to get them together more often in more high-profile events. This is how you do it. 

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2 minutes ago, LICC said:

He was ranked 44th coming into the API, so I would think so.

Yes but would he be 44th without the opportunity to play in the events leading up to the API that gained him enough fed ex points?

 

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8 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Yes but would he be 44th without the opportunity to play in the events leading up to the API that gained him enough fed ex points?

 

Yes absolutely. And he those lesser events also create immediate pathways into designated events. 

A hot stretch of a few tournaments is enough to get into a designated event. 

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7 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Yes absolutely. And he those lesser events also create immediate pathways into designated events. 

A hot stretch of a few tournaments is enough to get into a designated event. 

Maybe so, just raising the question.  It will be an interesting path forward to watch unfold. 

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I doubt I'll be able to articulate my points as well as I did the other day commenting on social media, but basically... The designated events give the big name, top-performing players a spot to battle against one another without as much "noise" and get the paychecks they arguably deserve given how much viewing demand they generate. Fans get a more exciting product (so long as broadcasters don't completely ruin it). The lower tier guys get increased opportunities to earn a reasonable living on the tour as the upper echelon of the sport work their schedules around designated events and majors - they will still have to play some non-designated events in order to sufficiently maintain their status as the elite of the golfing world and to satisfy sponsor obligations just to be clear. Again, fans get a better look at the guys working their way up the ranks and broadcasters (assuming they do their job) will be able to highlight them more easily.

Is it a perfect system? No. Absolutely not. However, I do think it's much better than what the tour has done to the FedEx Cup.

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10 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Hard disagree.

The players outside the top 50 are actually in a better place within this new model.

"The better players get more money"

Yeah, as they should.  Want more money?  Play better

The other option would be to become really good friends with the Commissioner, Rory!

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9 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Would Kitayama be holding the API trophy if we were under next year's rules?, or would it be Rory?

Hopefully, Harris English. I hope Rory never wins again.

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9 hours ago, LICC said:

Most of the below 100 ranked players have no effect on the main tournaments anyway. The Tour needed to update its model which is still based on a 1940s world. The top players are the draw so they need to get them together more often in more high-profile events. This is how you do it. 

They are doing that very fast, looking a lot like LIV golf.

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lots of talk on the Golf Channel regarding the 2024 PGA season.. Now let's be really honest, all throughout the recent evolution of golf, and by recent I mean since the advent of televised golf. Why did professional golf evolve from match play to stroke play, because the "sponsors" wanted a better chance that Arnold, Jack, Gary, Billy Casper, Lee Trevino, Sam Snead, Ben Hogan, would be around the tournament so people could watch them. 

There was a real lull in professional golf once Jack started aging, no one was taking the baton and carrying the tour, even Tom Watson didnt have the umph or Greg Norman, Curtis Strange (boring) golf was in a real lull...Oh  1996 a young phenom comes onto the course, oh and social media is gaining traction, perfect marriage... So off we go, golf grows like crazy and the sponsors love it and golf is good and pay is good... 

Where is the majority of the money made in professional sports? NFL (television) NHL (television, and believe me the NHL wants more americans to understand the game) MLB (television and so much so that the grapefruit league goes for a month before regular season starts, sponsors and money) 

All those sports had upstart leagues go up against them American Football League agains the old National Football League, WHL agains the NHL, American League against than National League, it just happens, now we have LIV against PGA... no big deal it has happened before and it will happen again... 

Gold needs the best players to play against each other, hasn't changed in 100 years, and the companies that pay the bills need that, so.... here we go.... to be honest I am enjoying the game currently, some great golfers and great golf.. play on....

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9 hours ago, GaDawg said:

They are doing that very fast, looking a lot like LIV golf.

Maybe it some aspects. The criticism of LIV isn’t about having more tournaments where more of the top players are playing together. The criticisms are of shotgun starts, 54 holes, no cuts and no qualifying to get into the tournaments, among other things. 
I do think the Tour is making a small mistake not having any cut on these events, but it’s not that big of a deal given that players still have to qualify to play them. 

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9 hours ago, GaDawg said:

The other option would be to become really good friends with the Commissioner, Rory!

Ya... no

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