2023 MGS Forum Membership Survey

[chisag]

1 minute ago, stuka44 said:

I would like to see   "The Self Made Golfer" section.  I would like there to be a section for those like me to share ideas on improving, drills and tips for improving, mostly centered on strategy,  self help, and game management.  A section where any suggestion to "get lessons" or a "club fitting" are automatically deleted.  I want to get better but I am never going to take a lesson, and I am never going to get a club fitting, with the idea that it is ACTUALLY going to improve my score.

I know many people ask for advice on this forum, but so many times it gets occupied by the get lessons and a fitting vs. no lessons or fittings argument.  I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that I really don't care how much it would improve my game at this point I am not taking any lessons, and i only buy clubs because I want to, which is seldom, but I don't ever buy them because I think they are going to make me play better.  Just a suggestion......

 

... I am not trying to change your mind but down this road lies madness for several reasons. What we think we are doing and what we are actually doing is almost always different. Most golfers have several flaws not just one. Thinking that fixing the singular flaw will improve your game just doesn't happen very often. What usually happens is changing that "one flaw" creates new and different flaws. As someone that taught and understands the relationship every move has on another or basically Newtons 3rd law "for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction". So an entire section that would influence others to go down a personal rabbit hole would be counter productive to playing better and a source of endless frustration. If you are standing up and losing your posture at impact causing poor contact and a myriad of other problems, addressing your backswing plane isn't going to help. 

... But to be clear, golfers are free to take their own path and I certainly respect your individual decision to never take a lesson or but clubs that may fit you better. And sharing ideas, drills or tips for improving are always welcome but so are suggestions to take a lesson or other suggestions that may be a better value for your game.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

21 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I would like to see   "The Self Made Golfer" section.  I would like there to be a section for those like me to share ideas on improving, drills and tips for improving, mostly centered on strategy,  self help, and game management.  A section where any suggestion to "get lessons" or a "club fitting" are automatically deleted.  I want to get better but I am never going to take a lesson, and I am never going to get a club fitting, with the idea that it is ACTUALLY going to improve my score.

I know many people ask for advice on this forum, but so many times it gets occupied by the get lessons and a fitting vs. no lessons or fittings argument.  I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that I really don't care how much it would improve my game at this point I am not taking any lessons, and i only buy clubs because I want to, which is seldom, but I don't ever buy them because I think they are going to make me play better.  Just a suggestion......

Sounds like a thread you can create. I'll be honest I don't think it is a section we will make because with have the MGS University section which fits this category. 

An auto delete of those posts isn't really possible with the forum Software either, however again sounds like a thread that can be created for your benefit.

[cnosil]

13 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

An auto delete of those posts isn't really possible with the forum Software either, however again sounds like a thread that can be created for your benefit.

Yep, just create a thread called the self made golfer with the caveat: ( no lesson or get fit suggestions) in the title.  Only problem is we know how well people read and follow the thread title…..testing closed and don’t apply to test here are key examples

My follow up is: is there a way I can block such a thread so I never see it? 

[GolfSpy_APH]

48 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I would like to see   "The Self Made Golfer" section.  I would like there to be a section for those like me to share ideas on improving, drills and tips for improving, mostly centered on strategy,  self help, and game management.  A section where any suggestion to "get lessons" or a "club fitting" are automatically deleted.  I want to get better but I am never going to take a lesson, and I am never going to get a club fitting, with the idea that it is ACTUALLY going to improve my score.

I know many people ask for advice on this forum, but so many times it gets occupied by the get lessons and a fitting vs. no lessons or fittings argument.  I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that I really don't care how much it would improve my game at this point I am not taking any lessons, and i only buy clubs because I want to, which is seldom, but I don't ever buy them because I think they are going to make me play better.  Just a suggestion......

Just one more add on. There is an entire fitting section made by @Golfspy_Lukes which has a ton of videos and insights foe those not wanting to get fit or just look for information to help their games. 

[EasyPutter]

30 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Yep, just create a thread called the self made golfer with the caveat: ( no lesson or get fit suggestions) in the title.  Only problem is we know how well people read and follow the thread title…..testing closed and don’t apply to test here are key examples

My follow up is: is there a way I can block such a thread so I never see it? 

So would it be considered spam to randomly post in a thread, "I would like to be a tester" and yes I am asking for a friend  and no I would never do such a thing.

[revkev]

16 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I am not trying to change your mind but down this road lies madness for several reasons. What we think we are doing and what we are actually doing is almost always different. Most golfers have several flaws not just one. Thinking that fixing the singular flaw will improve your game just doesn't happen very often. What usually happens is changing that "one flaw" creates new and different flaws. As someone that taught and understands the relationship every move has on another or basically Newtons 3rd law "for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction". So an entire section that would influence others to go down a personal rabbit hole would be counter productive to playing better and a source of endless frustration. If you are standing up and losing your posture at impact causing poor contact and a myriad of other problems, addressing your backswing plane isn't going to help. 

... But to be clear, golfers are free to take their own path and I certainly respect your individual decision to never take a lesson or but clubs that may fit you better. And sharing ideas, drills or tips for improving are always welcome but so are suggestions to take a lesson or other suggestions that may be a better value for your game.  

This is an all star reply IMO. If I’ve l armed one thing here it’s that people play golf for a myriad of reasons and that shooting the lowest scores possible isn’t always that reason. The only concern I’d have with such a thread as the OP suggested is that someone who does care about shooting his best scores might wander into it for the wrong reasons.

 

I suspect, no more than that know that there are plenty of people who prefer to do it themselves. That’s their prerogative. I only give the take a lesson or get fit answer if the question opens the door to it anymore. Lately though I’ve simply tried to answer an equipment question with my best possible answer rather than a go get fit. I’m completely unqualified to answer swing related questions so I avoid those. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[tony@CIC]

Completed. Interesting results - the prizes question results were lower than I would have thought. The virtual golf tournament #'s not a surprise since a good portion of the country is still on the 'chilly' side. 

[Stuka44]

18 hours ago, chisag said:

I am not trying to change your mind but down this road lies madness

 

18 hours ago, chisag said:

So an entire section that would influence others to go down a personal rabbit hole would be counter productive to playing better and a source of endless frustration

 I had a much longer response typed out, but it really doesn't matter!

"Down this road lies madness", ... "counter productive", and a source of "endless frustration".  I'm not really sure you "hear" yourself.  As I have pointed out before comments like these are actually very demeaning, and a tad bit insulting to ANYONE who is self taught.  

I am not alone, I'm confident you believe I am, but I felt no frustration.  What I found was increasing confidence, pride, and accomplishment.  Confidence in myself that I could get better at this "hard game" by taking in all the information I could, and applying it on my own.  

So I understand you are an instructor, and I am not, and you believe instruction is the "best" way.  I am just not sure, that in the long run, comments like "you can do it on your own, but its likely going to be "endless frustration" (without lessons) are actually going to be helpful to someone just taking up the game, who maybe can't afford actual lessons.  Maybe when faced with the idea of "endless frustration" they just quit.

And the latest I could find from the NGF suggests, that only 14-17 % of golfers have taken formal lessons.  So I think there are more people out their looking for help with their game, who quite frankly (for good or ill), are going to be offended, and put off, with repeated insinuations that the only way to "really" get better is to take lessons.

Thanks for the input!!  Apparently I am the only self taught person on this forum!

 

 

 

 

[chisag]

1 hour ago, stuka44 said:

 

 I had a much longer response typed out, but it really doesn't matter!

"Down this road lies madness", ... "counter productive", and a source of "endless frustration".  I'm not really sure you "hear" yourself.  As I have pointed out before comments like these are actually very demeaning, and a tad bit insulting to ANYONE who is self taught.  

I am not alone, I'm confident you believe I am, but I felt no frustration.  What I found was increasing confidence, pride, and accomplishment.  Confidence in myself that I could get better at this "hard game" by taking in all the information I could, and applying it on my own.  

So I understand you are an instructor, and I am not, and you believe instruction is the "best" way.  I am just not sure, that in the long run, comments like "you can do it on your own, but its likely going to be "endless frustration" (without lessons) are actually going to be helpful to someone just taking up the game, who maybe can't afford actual lessons.  Maybe when faced with the idea of "endless frustration" they just quit.

And the latest I could find from the NGF suggests, that only 14-17 % of golfers have taken formal lessons.  So I think there are more people out their looking for help with their game, who quite frankly (for good or ill), are going to be offended, and put off, with repeated insinuations that the only way to "really" get better is to take lessons.

Thanks for the input!!  Apparently I am the only self taught person on this forum!

 

 

... You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. I am self taught so I understand completely. But had I taken lessons I could have shortened my journey to being a scratch player. I think most players are self taught but they aren't on a golf forum and interested in becoming the best player they can be. But even being on a golf forum many are still self taught with no desire to take a lesson so I think you misinterpret my position. 
 
... I have no problem with being self taught but what you are advocating is self taught players self teaching others. One of the things I told my students was never share information from a lesson with others because everything we do is tailor made for you specifically. I often gave students advice that was inherently "wrong" but something they needed to correct a flaw. As an example If a student had a reverse pivot and actually moved their head and tilting their spine toward the target at the top of their backswing I would ask them to move their head 2 feet away from the target at the top of their swing. When most tried they either did not move it much at all and still leaned toward the target  or ideally the kept it in the same position. I never had a student that didn't feel like they moved their head backwards at least a foot if not the full two feet. Because what we feel/think we are doing is rarely what we are doing. Even Tour Pro's woking with instructors will say the same thing about what they feel and why they have teachers. 

... So again be your own teacher all you want. Most do. I prefaced my comments that was meant for other readers much more than you "I am not trying to change your mind" I just don't think it would be constructive for others to have an entire folder to hear what any individual did to improve their own swing. "I started taking my backswing above the plane and it fixed my poor ball striking. If you are hitting it on the toe, try taking your backswing above the plane. It worked for me!" The truth is they are not above the plane, they were just well below it and got on plane. Or concentrating on a different plane slowed down their transition. Or attempting to change their plane but it was still the same, changed their posture. The point being what they thought "fixed" an issue more times than not, was not what they think they were doing or the fix came from another area of the swing. Respectfully you are a 14 index. I have no idea how much you have improved and 14 is something to take pride in being self taught. That said ... could you get to a 4 with a good teacher? Many could but don't care that much or don't want to spend the money or don't want to go backwards before gong forward or a ton of other reasons to not take lessons. I support all those reasons. 

... If you take one thing from this reply, most don't get instruction and I am not telling anyone they should. That is an individual choice. But giving advice to others on a golf forum based on your own self taught personal experience is rarely a good idea.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Not sure who to quote with this and not even sure I should chime in or waste my time but let’s just say this

 

You are no longer “self taught” if you get advice from someone else and apply it to your swing!  It is simply a cheaper and possibly harmful way of trying to fix a swing flaw. 
 

I have never had a lesson like many but this “self taught” concept makes no sense to me. You may have started that way but once you looked online for advice, you can’t call it that anymore.  

Just call the thread “Anyone like me don’t wanna take lessons or Get Fit?  Let’s share what works for us.”

[Bang60]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

Not sure who to quote with this and not even sure I should chime in or waste my time but let’s just say this

 

You are no longer “self taught” if you get advice from someone else and apply it to your swing!  It is simply a cheaper and possibly harmful way of trying to fix a swing flaw. 
 

I have never had a lesson like many but this “self taught” concept makes no sense to me. You may have started that way but once you looked online for advice, you can’t call it that anymore.  

Just call the thread “Anyone like me don’t wanna take lessons or Get Fit?  Let’s share what works for us.”

Not sure what point you’re trying to make but, I’m largely self taught and I say this because I’ve had lessons that involved a golf Pro who closely supervised my swing. That’s what I call not self taught so I therefore believe I’m self taught mostly for the last 20 years, I’ve had 6 ish lessons in this time but I’m practicing alone and yes I’m watching golf on TV. If I’m watching golf videos or chat on mgs about how I play a particular shot and then go hit the ball alone I feel thats not a lesson, most of the stuff on utube I take with a grain of salt particularly on how to improve my distance. That’s just click bait imho, I’ve also learned alot particularly golf club repair which I’m grateful for….

[GolfSpy_BNG]

36 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Not sure what point you’re trying to make but, I’m largely self taught and I say this because I’ve had lessons that involved a golf Pro who closely supervised my swing. That’s what I call not self taught so I therefore believe I’m self taught mostly for the last 20 years, I’ve had 6 ish lessons in this time but I’m practicing alone and yes I’m watching golf on TV. If I’m watching golf videos or chat on mgs about how I play a particular shot and then go hit the ball alone I feel thats not a lesson, most of the stuff on utube I take with a grain of salt particularly on how to improve my distance. That’s just click bait imho, I’ve also learned alot particularly golf club repair which I’m grateful for….

My point is if you use a tip or advice from someone else(pro/YouTube/golf forum) you can’t claim “I’m a self taught golfer”. Break it down however you want and practice it by yourself but if it’s someone else’s idea you lose the “self taught” title. 
 

Again you can claim “mostly” self taught, had a few lessons but didn’t listen, whatever. By the definition that seems to be thrown around, everyone can claim some form of self taught when they picked up a club and swung it the first time.  To be honest, by definition there isn’t anyone that is “self taught” as I would be astonished if you found someone that didn’t take a tip or advice from someone and apply it to their swing. 
 

I knew I shouldn’t have said anything as this is completely pointless to argue or even talk about.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

This is the last day for this and I will be closing the poll following. I will leave the comments open though!

[Louis "John " Gavazza]

Hi completed the survey

[golfinnut]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:12 AM, russtopherb said:

Completed, and agreed on the ability to select multiple choices on some of the questions. 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^  

[GolfSpy_APH]

27 minutes ago, golfinnut said:

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^  

Thanks for completing.

Due to not having a ranking system in the poll or rating single Selection is our best path forward. 

I've answered this previously, but multiple answers doesn't lead to the specifics we are looking for and the data isn't then something which is actionable. 

With the way it is structured it allows us to pick some paths forward and put resources where it is best required.

However we may have follow up questions which expand on some of these topics. 

[golfinnut]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Thanks for completing.

Due to not having a ranking system in the poll or rating single Selection is our best path forward. 

I've answered this previously, but multiple answers doesn't lead to the specifics we are looking for and the data isn't then something which is actionable. 

With the way it is structured it allows us to pick some paths forward and put resources where it is best required.

However we may have follow up questions which expand on some of these topics. 

Makes complete sense.  

[Heavye1026]

Haven't been on the site in a while, but submitted my responses.  From the last time I logged on, liking the subtle changes I've seen too!

[GolfSpy_APH]

Once again thank you all for participating and filling out the poll. It was extremely helpful and I wanted to provide you with an update on some of the changes it has meant will come into effect over the coming month or so. 

1. Newsletters - This has been mentioned in other threads, but our Monday, Wednesday, Friday Newsletter will continue as is. We are very happy with it and it does help bring eyes to the forum which is important to us. The second part is with Testing Season coming up somewhat soon there will be an additonal Tuesday and Thursday Newsletter that goes out specifically around Member Testing. Thursday will focus on new tests that are coming (announcing them) and Tuesday will be Testers announced and Final reviews. This will help get some additional eyes on the tests and hopefully help more engagement! Please be nice to all the newbies coming! haha I know all of you will, but going that little extra step to guiding them means a lot!

2. MGSVT - We as a mod team really like this feature and are going to work to promote it a bit more. We and by we I mean @Golfspy_TCB have some exciting plans for it and a few things to spice it up that will hopefully help engagement and get all of you to post your rounds when you're able to play!

3. AMA - This is going to the back burner for now. How it might change is within our community calls. This would mean I have a special guest come on to discuss their company, products or whatever else and we record it and post it after. This is much less time consuming for us and should allow for more free flowing conversation. The old format is not likely to return. 

4. Member Map and Course Reviews - Again a feature we like and just need to do a better job highlighting. We want to see more course reviews on here as it helps everyone find fun and unique courses. Even if you don't want to pin your location it would be great if you can put in a course review or two! It is really quick, easy and helps more golfers find more courses easily!

5. Member Testing - ahh watch this space. I don't believe you will be disappointed... but glad to see for most all it isn't the only reason you are here. 

6. MGS Blog content - We will work to bring you more of what you want here onto the forum and we are also looking at more forum items on the main site! Whether that be member reviews, course reviews, trending topics or more! 

7. Big Trip - Still a lot tbd on this however when we have further news we will keep you updated.

8. The gallery - This feature will likely be removed. Unfortunately it does cause a lot of back end issues and unless we can sort it out we may have to pull the plug on this. There are very few that actually post albums of photos there and more post in threads. I am guessing the majority of who said yes are those who browse through the photos vs actually posting in them. 

9. Glad to see so many with push notifications!

10. Themes are as expected and there won't be much changes here. 

11. Ads - This may change a big, bit as to how you see ads, however the forum structure is built with placement for ads and we have been assured that will not change. User experience is key and if there are some that are awful like they had been please screenshot and let us know.

12 - BST - We still want a new platform here and are working on it. Still TBD, but we do want to expand this area of the forum. 

Thanks again all and let us know if you have questions!

[Bang60]

Since I joined I've found MGS a more interactive blog with the members input fair and constructive unlike most other blog's, however the MGSVT means nothing to me? Obviously I know what MGS means but I need the acronyms in full first time, sorry to be difficult it's harder to participate if your a new member or don't speak American lol...

Edited March 21, 2023 by Bang60
info

[GolfSpy SAM]

19 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Since I joined I've found a more interactive blog with the members input fair and constructive unlike most other blog's, however the MGSVT means nothing to me? Obviously I know what MGS means but I need the acronyms in full first time, sorry to be difficult it's harder to participate if your a new member or don't speak American lol...

MGSVT = MyGolfSpy Virtual Tournament  I speak American just fine and sometimes the acronyms throw me off, too.  If you've not joined up in the Tourney, post some scores! It's good fun, and there will be (I believe) more opportunities to team up with other members for special one-off tourneys (like the Two-Ball tourney that just wrapped up last weekend)!  

[Bang60]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy_SAM said:

MGSVT = MyGolfSpy Virtual Tournament  I speak American just fine......

I don't, as a retired English teacher teaching English as a second language every English speaking country in the world has different meanings even saying the same words. What's hidden implied and suggested is different even from region to region even in America, language is one of my Fav topics and I learnt Maori French Thai German English all of them to various levels. Today my level is very low and can only speak English with any fluency, all though some would disagree lol...

[GolfSpy SAM]

1 minute ago, Bang60 said:

I don't, as a retired English teacher teaching English as a second language every English speaking country in the world has different meanings even saying the same words. What's hidden implied and suggested is different even from region to region even in America, language is one of my Fav topics and I learnt Maori French Thai German English all of them to various levels. Today my level is very low and can only speak English with any fluency, all though some would disagree lol...

Only five languages in addition to your native tongue? You sound like a real dumb-dumb.  (<<<======= sarcasm alert =======>>>)

That's incredible! I have some siblings that have lived extensively in Europe (France and Germany), and just like with most things, if you don't use language, even if it's your mother-tongue, it's easy to lose fluency.  The running joke in my family when doing an impression of either one of my siblings is to say a lot of "ummm....yah....vuss ees dat vurd....oh yeah! 'Chocolate'!"

Happy to have you here!