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Shaft or the head?


GolfSpy WD

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After my Nike Speed trial, I had some time to kill, so I went looking around Golf Galaxy at their various clubs. I had no intention of trying things out, but I saw the MP63s on sale for $599, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Not only was it the best feeling club I've ever tried, but it was crazy long. I was hitting the 5-iron 185-190 on every shot.

 

So my question is, with irons of the same loft and both forged, is there any difference is distance due to the club head? Or is it all due to the shaft?

 

The MP63s had S300s, my current irons have Apollo Phantoms and I hit those very high. For comparison my 5-iron goes about 170. So if I installed S300s in my current irons, should I expect to hit it as long as the MP63s? I'm still tempted to pick up the MP63s, but my wallet (and wife) would be much happier with me if I just swapped the shafts.

 

Either way, I won't do anything until I get fit, but I'm curious what everyone's experience has been.

 

Thanks.

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I'm disinclined to give a whole lot of credit to the head once design and weight distribution have satisfied me. However, I doubt it matters a lot in this instance. A new set of irons at 600 sounds very good to me as against the cost of a new set of shafts and the corresponding cost of pulling, installing and the grips that would also be needed.

 

I'm sure you could save something but I doubt the difference is worth the time and trouble.

 

 

Shambles

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My experience? Little bit of column A, little bit of column B. Switching shafts can have a big impact on ball flight and distance. Switching heads can do the same.

 

Unless you want to spend a ton of money and probably take a long trip to a top fitting studio I think Matt is on the right track. If you wish, you could experiment with changing the shaft in your existing five iron and see if you get the same result. One suggestion if you do buy new clubs, ask if you can an extra six iron at a discount. That way in the future you can experiemnt with shafts, grips, counterweighing, etc and always have an accurate reference for comparison.

 

However, I suspect you are like the rest of us and the lure of shiny new toys will not permit you to wait for playing around with reshafting one club. :D

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Unless you want to spend a ton of money and probably take a long trip to a top fitting studio I think Matt is on the right track. If you wish, you could experiment with changing the shaft in your existing five iron and see if you get the same result. One suggestion if you do buy new clubs, ask if you can an extra six iron at a discount. That way in the future you can experiemnt with shafts, grips, counterweighing, etc and always have an accurate reference for comparison.

 

However, I suspect you are like the rest of us and the lure of shiny new toys will not permit you to wait for playing around with reshafting one club. :D

 

For a brand new set of MP63s at $599 I'm not sure I can resist not pulling the trigger much longer. I'm heading there after work. Depending on how far I hit them, my 50-54-58 CG15 wedges may make it back into the bag.

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i have fitted people that liked a particular head and with a different shaft and the right shaft can reallymake them gain more distance and tighter dispersion.

 

i had a little time today after work and i went on the launch monitor and i put 2 6 irons, R11 Head with Dynamic gold S300 vs Jpx Pro with Dynalite gold s 300. both shafts i hit between 183-195 averaging 187 and 188 depending how hard a swing.

 

with the slightly lighter weight on the dynalite i find it a lot easier to maneuver the ball and go after it a little more if i needed to. Dispersion did not suffer and i was having a better time hitting the Jpx Pro with a lighter weight shaft without having to try to hard as im not the strongest and biggest guy out there.

 

i think it would be worthwhile to get fitted instead of jst pulling a trigger on the irons. jst use the mizuno fitting cart and hit the optimizer 3 times with the mp63 heads. the first choice is usually pretty spot on

Taylormade RBZ2 TP 9.5 Fuel 60

Ping i20 3 wood Aldila Nv

Adams Dhy 18*

Mizuno Mp59 4-p KBS Tour S

Vokey 50* 55* 60*

Scotty Cameron Select Newport 1.5

Ball - Z star XV

Oakley Stand Bag

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i work at a golf shop and i have fitted many people that liked a particular head and with a different shaft gain more distance and tighter dispersion.

 

i had a little time today after work and i went on the launch monitor and i put 2 6 irons, R11 Head with Dynamic gold S300 vs Jpx Pro with Dynalite gold s 300. both shafts i hit between 183-195 averaging 187 and 188 depending how hard a swing.

 

with the slightly lighter weight on the dynalite i find it a lot easier to maneuver the ball and go after it a little more if i needed to. Dispersion did not suffer and i was having a better time hitting the Jpx Pro with a lighter weight shaft without having to try to hard as im not the strongest and biggest guy out there.

 

i think it would be worthwhile to get fitted instead of jst pulling a trigger on the irons. jst use the mizuno fitting cart and hit the optimizer 3 times with the mp63 heads. the first choice is usually pretty spot on

 

That's probably a good idea. Because these are clearance, they won't be able to change the shaft at that price. But they do have a fitting cart there, so I'll give it a try.

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That's probably a good idea. Because these are clearance, they won't be able to change the shaft at that price. But they do have a fitting cart there, so I'll give it a try.

 

the dynamic gold's weight is not sth that i want to deal with day in day out when i play. personally i like something more lightweight but still giving me control like the dynalite or Kbs, so try out the fitting cart and with the knowledge u can knw whether to buy them or jst look for another set with the shafts u want

Taylormade RBZ2 TP 9.5 Fuel 60

Ping i20 3 wood Aldila Nv

Adams Dhy 18*

Mizuno Mp59 4-p KBS Tour S

Vokey 50* 55* 60*

Scotty Cameron Select Newport 1.5

Ball - Z star XV

Oakley Stand Bag

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I agree that fitting is the way to go to ensure you buy the right equipment the first time.

 

In the original post you mentioned hitting it crazy long. Did you compare that iron to others available?

 

I ask that because I have many stories about LM's being jacked up in stores. When a golfer starts to hit longer in comparision to their current set it is like striking gold. That is until you get to the course.

 

If you did and the results showed longer and tighter than the current set then you may stumbled onto a good set and shaft for you. If not then see the first sentence.

Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg Graphite Design XC 6S GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - Makefield VS LH

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Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

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I agree that fitting is the way to go to ensure you buy the right equipment the first time.

 

In the original post you mentioned hitting it crazy long. Did you compare that iron to others available?

 

I ask that because I have many stories about LM's being jacked up in stores. When a golfer starts to hit longer in comparision to their current set it is like striking gold. That is until you get to the course.

 

If you did and the results showed longer and tighter than the current set then you may stumbled onto a good set and shaft for you. If not then see the first sentence.

 

Totally agree with you. I'm going there today with my current irons in hand, which I know how far I hit. I really wouldn't be surprised if the difference in length is due to the shaft since the DGs have a lower launch than my current shafts, but at that price it's hard to pass up.

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Fitting, fitting, fitting. That's wherein your answer lies. Forged vs cast vs forged, doesn't really matter. It's about getting the specs right, manufacturer tolerances, getting the correct shaft into the correct head, etc. The head is the most important part of any fitting. Getting the loft, lie, shape, etc correct there is where it starts. From there, the shaft is a fine tuning tool to bring dispersion back into the equation and then get the launch characteristics fine tuned (launch angle, spin, etc). It's both that come together to marry the parts into a perfect fit for an individual to get optimal results.

 

And yes, always use your current clubs as a reference point hitting them side by side.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Went in to do a side by side comparison of the Mizuno and my Dynacrafts. No difference at all in distance, honestly no difference in feel either. Kind of bittersweet because I was looking forward to new shiny toys, but it was great to validate that Hireko makes a helluva product. But, then again, I have $600 to spend on new shafts and maybe extra golf :D.

 

As for the long distances, it turns out on this monitor, anything with a draw or to the left gained extra distance. Anything to the right lost distance. The guy at GG even told me to get a completely accurate reading, it had to be straight down the middle. I hit a few of those and my distances were pretty much as expected in the 170-175 range for both clubs.

 

I'm going to keep the Dynacrafts for a while and see what Frank at Ace of Clubs recommends for a shaft.

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Fitting, fitting, fitting. That's wherein your answer lies. Forged vs cast vs forged, doesn't really matter. It's about getting the specs right, manufacturer tolerances, getting the correct shaft into the correct head, etc. The head is the most important part of any fitting. Getting the loft, lie, shape, etc correct there is where it starts. From there, the shaft is a fine tuning tool to bring dispersion back into the equation and then get the launch characteristics fine tuned (launch angle, spin, etc). It's both that come together to marry the parts into a perfect fit for an individual to get optimal results.

 

And yes, always use your current clubs as a reference point hitting them side by side.

 

thats exactly how ping does it

Taylormade RBZ2 TP 9.5 Fuel 60

Ping i20 3 wood Aldila Nv

Adams Dhy 18*

Mizuno Mp59 4-p KBS Tour S

Vokey 50* 55* 60*

Scotty Cameron Select Newport 1.5

Ball - Z star XV

Oakley Stand Bag

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WD, obviously I'm alittle biased regarding the Mizzys..Damn, $600?..I'd get 'em for a back-up..Regarding shaft vs. head, I bellieve that Matt hit it, alittle bit of both..Just like I've been a Mizuno player for a while, I've also used the TT DGs for ever..Probably cuz that's what the club had in it when I got it, I hit it well, & I'm a creature of habit..Though I did pick up a set of MP-33s(pristine) with the PX Rifle shafts(6.5)..I've also got the irons with the TT DG S400..The PX 33s flew about 5-7 yds further consistently & here's the kicker: my 33s/DG are bent 2* strong loftwise..So, maybe the shaft plays a role in the irons as it does in the driver..Probably does..Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

That's why I jumped when I saw them, but $600 is $600 and without any benefit in performance, I wasn't going to buy them. I can buy nearly two 5-PW sets of Prophet forged (@ $35 a head, $15/shaft, $2/grip) for that price.

 

So far (since I already got approval from the purchasing department, aka my wife), the $600 is being reassigned:

 

$225 for 9 KBS Tour shafts (assuming that's what is recommended to me, PX is about the same)

$150 for a SwingByte after I read the MGS review

$225+ for a 3wood shaft and hybrid shafts

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You got into this because of what you thought was a performance upgrade. You subsequently found out the was no performance upgrade. Why make changes ? Why not spend the money on range and fairway time getting to know your game better? Try investing in yourself.

 

 

Shambles

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You got into this because of what you thought was a performance upgrade. You subsequently found out the was no performance upgrade. Why make changes ? Why not spend the money on range and fairway time getting to know your game better? Try investing in yourself.

 

 

Shambles

 

Cause it's fun to do when I can't go to the range/course? I'm pretty sure a few more rounds should help drop my handicap, I'm playing much better already this year. Plus I'm very curious about how much a change in shaft can actually make.

 

One of the items on my list, the SwingByte, is to hopefully make non-range time more productive by being able to analyze my swing.

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Cause it's fun to do when I can't go to the range/course? I'm pretty sure a few more rounds should help drop my handicap, I'm playing much better already this year. Plus I'm very curious about how much a change in shaft can actually make.

 

One of the items on my list, the SwingByte, is to hopefully make non-range time more productive by being able to analyze my swing.

 

I hear you talking. I'm also weak in the same respect. It really is more fun to buy new equipment than to use the same old even if that same old is plenty good.

 

Sad part of life, for me in any case, is that change rarely gives immediate results to my benefit. If I did a good one, I can fix one or two particular aspects, but the rest of the armory also suffers change and needs getting to know again. So the end effect, for me in any case, is to make range and fairway time more needed.

 

When you've made your change, don't be too quick to conclude it was either good or bad. Take the time to find out it's effect on all your shots and do it on a real range. Nets are handy at home but if I'm going to pay for range time, I want to see a field in front of me.

 

 

Shambles

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That's why I jumped when I saw them, but $600 is $600 and without any benefit in performance, I wasn't going to buy them. I can buy nearly two 5-PW sets of Prophet forged (@ $35 a head, $15/shaft, $2/grip) for that price.

 

So far (since I already got approval from the purchasing department, aka my wife), the $600 is being reassigned:

 

$225 for 9 KBS Tour shafts (assuming that's what is recommended to me, PX is about the same)

$150 for a SwingByte after I read the MGS review

$225+ for a 3wood shaft and hybrid shafts

You can save more than that on the KBS Tours. They're $165 from The Golf Source on eBay, and they're as legit as it gets (they're an authorized KBS dealer).You know, so you'll have that extra $60 or so to spend on more golf stuff.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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First thing is first Mizuno is known as the 'the poor mans Miura irons', they have always been known for their feel and their performance in the irons. So to score a set of irons for $600 that are new is a good deal, espesually since I know that wdgolf from his posts is trying to become a better player and is trending down in handicap, these irons will last him a long time so that he can just focus on his game once the shaft, length, lie & loft are adjusted to fit his swing and body type. Not to mention that the MP-63 is my favorite non-blade players CB, it just reminds me of my old MP-60s i used to play.

 

To answer the question of shafts or head, it is going to be both. As others have said in here already OEMs don't have a supper tight tolerance on the irons that you get off the rack would be too expensive to check every single COR, MOI, loft, lie on every club they produce. The tour van gets this done for them but they are a super small percentage of what is produced and a lot of times they have models that are not available to the public for example, TM R11s V2 (425cc) or R11 DOT (420c). I guess what I am getting at is the heads you get on the driver, fairway metal, rescue clubs, irons, wedges will all have slightly different results from testing with the same company and same brand of head.

 

You would need access to like a tour van or a top fitter that can have endless amount of resources to mix and match heads to get a target, you will spend a lot of money in this case. So much you might as well go for the Miura clubs special order components is what they do. I have heard some interesting stories about grooves, loft, lie, length, COR & MOI reading from the same models of 6 iron just different heads that were tested. Typically the 6 or 7 iron is the biggest piece of s*** in the set because that is the club the company produces the most of for demo clubs. Anyways, you really can't control the heads so much but you can at least control the shaft that fits your game the best for your swing and body type in terms of length, lie angle, loft, type of shaft, bend profile, spin rates, you get the idea.

 

I know that when I was having my W/S lie and loft adjusted / checked when i got them the lie angles were all really close to specs on their website. All of the lofts were to spec except the 6iron it was 1* weak of spec, easy fix. That might not sound like something you care about but 1* of loft is about 3-5 yards of distance. In terms of trying to land it into a 5 or 10 foot circle with that club it might matter to some people.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I hear you talking. I'm also weak in the same respect. It really is more fun to buy new equipment than to use the same old even if that same old is plenty good.

 

Sad part of life, for me in any case, is that change rarely gives immediate results to my benefit. If I did a good one, I can fix one or two particular aspects, but the rest of the armory also suffers change and needs getting to know again. So the end effect, for me in any case, is to make range and fairway time more needed.

 

When you've made your change, don't be too quick to conclude it was either good or bad. Take the time to find out it's effect on all your shots and do it on a real range. Nets are handy at home but if I'm going to pay for range time, I want to see a field in front of me.

 

 

Shambles

 

 

First thing is first Mizuno is known as the 'the poor mans Miura irons', they have always been known for their feel and their performance in the irons. So to score a set of irons for $600 that are new is a good deal, espesually since I know that wdgolf from his posts is trying to become a better player and is trending down in handicap, these irons will last him a long time so that he can just focus on his game once the shaft, length, lie & loft are adjusted to fit his swing and body type. Not to mention that the MP-63 is my favorite non-blade players CB, it just reminds me of my old MP-60s i used to play.

 

To answer the question of shafts or head, it is going to be both. As others have said in here already OEMs don't have a supper tight tolerance on the irons that you get off the rack would be too expensive to check every single COR, MOI, loft, lie on every club they produce. The tour van gets this done for them but they are a super small percentage of what is produced and a lot of times they have models that are not available to the public for example, TM R11s V2 (425cc) or R11 DOT (420c). I guess what I am getting at is the heads you get on the driver, fairway metal, rescue clubs, irons, wedges will all have slightly different results from testing with the same company and same brand of head.

 

You would need access to like a tour van or a top fitter that can have endless amount of resources to mix and match heads to get a target, you will spend a lot of money in this case. So much you might as well go for the Miura clubs special order components is what they do. I have heard some interesting stories about grooves, loft, lie, length, COR & MOI reading from the same models of 6 iron just different heads that were tested. Typically the 6 or 7 iron is the biggest piece of s*** in the set because that is the club the company produces the most of for demo clubs. Anyways, you really can't control the heads so much but you can at least control the shaft that fits your game the best for your swing and body type in terms of length, lie angle, loft, type of shaft, bend profile, spin rates, you get the idea.

 

I know that when I was having my W/S lie and loft adjusted / checked when i got them the lie angles were all really close to specs on their website. All of the lofts were to spec except the 6iron it was 1* weak of spec, easy fix. That might not sound like something you care about but 1* of loft is about 3-5 yards of distance. In terms of trying to land it into a 5 or 10 foot circle with that club it might matter to some people.

 

Replying to both Shambles and Jmiller since both bring up two related good points.

 

This is exactly why I'm getting fitted. IMO my distances aren't huge by any means, but they're definitely in the good enough range, so I'm interested in accuracy and fixing this sort of gap as much as anything else. One of my real peeves with my current set is I hit my 52* GW 95 yards and my 47* PW 115 on full shots. If I really go after it with my GW I can hit 100 and if I choke down on my PW I can hit 110, but right now it's a distance I try avoid in general. I have had the loft/lie checked for my 5-PW set, but not my wedges yet, so that's one of the first things I'm going to ask about.

 

I am weak when it comes to a good deal, but in the end I'm glad I didn't go for the Mizunos, despite how pretty they are.

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First thing is first Mizuno is known as the 'the poor mans Miura irons'.

 

The only problem I have with this statement is that Mizuno is known. Miura, asside from this forum and club ho's like us, are not know to the vast majority of the golfing public. I know that I had heard of them but I had just heard the name. I had no idea if they were good or just a cheap knockoff of some of the bigger OEMs. The same could be said of KBS. Until recently, I would not have known them from Apollo. And to be honest, most of the golfing public have no idea what a difference a shaft makes.

 

I look every Wednesday at whoever I get grouped with in the Beer Can Open Scrambles and I rarely see anything but stock shafts. Two weeks ago, I played with this guy and on the third hole he asked what shaft was in my driver. I let him hit it, and he hit the ball much longer than I do. Last week, he said he found one and it was on the way. Last night, he said it was being put in his driver and he would have it for tonight. But he is the exception. He also has some Mizuno MP14 and I hit them last night.

 

I am looking at Mizuno's for the first time now. Also, I am going tomorrow, wife's birthday but she is allowing me to look only for a while at the golf store. to try out some KBS shafts.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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When you talk about Miura set as the pure standard of feel and forging at $2500 or more a set i would consider $1000 cheap.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I am not arguing the price difference between Mizuno and Miura. I will not even get in the debate that the Miura feel two and a half or more times better than the Mizuno so the price is justified. But I would be curious how many strokes one can knock off their score by spending the $1500 + on irons vs. lessons.

 

I was just making reference to the Mizuno being "known" as anything to do with Miura. Mizuno can honestly say that they are played by the number 1 player in the world. They also can post a substantial list of wins, not that that really makes any difference, but they can do it.

 

I just do not think the Miura are "known" period. I have never seen one in real life. Heck, out here in Marboro country, Mizuno irons are rare, I know of two sets. There are probably 6 or 7 that play Titleist (4 of them AP's), and 100 each of Callaway and Taylormade and 75 Pings then all the rest.

 

I have to copy your spelling of Miura which tells you how familiar I am with them. But then again, I keep wanting to call Mizuno Minuzo. :D

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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I am not arguing the price difference between Mizuno and Miura. I will not even get in the debate that the Miura feel two and a half or more times better than the Mizuno so the price is justified. But I would be curious how many strokes one can knock off their score by spending the $1500 + on irons vs. lessons.

 

I was just making reference to the Mizuno being "known" as anything to do with Miura. Mizuno can honestly say that they are played by the number 1 player in the world. They also can post a substantial list of wins, not that that really makes any difference, but they can do it.

 

I just do not think the Miura are "known" period. I have never seen one in real life. Heck, out here in Marboro country, Mizuno irons are rare, I know of two sets. There are probably 6 or 7 that play Titleist (4 of them AP's), and 100 each of Callaway and Taylormade and 75 Pings then all the rest.

 

I have to copy your spelling of Miura which tells you how familiar I am with them. But then again, I keep wanting to call Mizuno Minuzo. :D

 

I agree 110%, $1500+ clubs is nothing but status IMHO, but to customize them to a T on a normal set of MP-69s for example would run around $1500 - $2000 anyways just depending on what all you are doing to them :) off the self $800 - $900 new $1000 at most is a great deal, they could sell them for a lot more and people would buy them, look at the scratch golf people. Scratch Golf custom set $2500, off the rack $1200-$1300...

 

I know the Miura (http://miuragolf.com/) has done forgings for some top OEMs and found a document talking about it, so I have to ask myself how many top tour pros playing blades are actually playing that companies product or if it is just a Miura blade made to look like their products.

--> http://www.mblacy.com/press_releases/Miura_secret.doc

 

You are right outside of the hardcore golfers Miura is not really known at all, scratch golf is probably more known then Miura golf but same thing it is a pretty small company. For 'Big OEMs'I agree Mizuno leads the way in 99% of the time for feel and forging. I have only found one club line to match or come close W/S FG62s versus the MP-69s... W/S hit it out the park on their blade I can't lie about that.

 

In the end I feel that if you are looking or considering a set of clubs that are manufactured to the tightest and highest quality, you won't find them in a 'high volume golf shop' just sitting

 

EDIT: Tiger Woods played them under Titleist, is it really any stretch of the imagination that he still plays them under Nike?

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Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

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Back to topic. My thoughts on the head vs the shaft is that of course they are glued together so they are equal important but the head contributes most to forgiveness, sound, feel at impact, looks at address, and in the bag. This last seems a trivial part of it, but the shot is half over once you have pulled the club. And if the looks of the club inspire confidence, even in the bag, then the rest is proper setup and tempo. Not that you will always hit a good shot with this formula, but you are much more likely to hit a good one in this case than when you are not confident, you are making the right swing, set up improperly and swat at the ball.

 

The shaft contibute feel during the swing and I guess some looks at address. I honestly like the looks of the stepless shaft better. But I do not notice this very often.

 

Now, I was thinking that for the most part, loft and length determine distance when combined with swing speed. However, angle of attack greatly affects the spin. Much has been said about spin and driver distance. I know personally, when I went to the Tour AD DI shaft, I gained 25 to 30 yards easily because I got the spin numbers down. But my distance with irons is really not that great. Today I put on my swing guage and went out and hit a few balls into the lake. It is 160 to the shore, and I was hitting a 5 iron about 175 - 180. My swing speed said it was 92. (Smooth tempo about 80%) Now this was no warm up and in house shoes, but the distance is about what I get from those irons. I think I should be getting more distance from the clubs.

 

i have tried the lighter shafts and I like a heavier feeling head, but to be honest I am a big guy and 20 grams of shaft makes very little difference to me. I trap the ball, and even when I hit a 3 iron into the green I get a one hop and stop. I do not hit full wedges but if I do they will back up 10 feet or more on the green. 3/4 wedges I am within a foot either way of the pitch mark. So what I am saying is that I am really spinning the ball.

 

My question is if I went with a heavier shaft and lower spinning shaft, would I see a significant increase in the iron distance. I do the online fitting, KBS three times this morning, and it keep putting me into the lighter shafts to increase my swing speed, but honestly, when I really speed up I do not see much increase but see significant.

 

Also I read that the Project X were better for diggers and the DG were better for sweepers.

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

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For 'Big OEMs'I agree Mizuno leads the way in 99% of the time for feel and forging. I have only found one club line to match or come close W/S FG62s versus the MP-69s... W/S hit it out the park on their blade I can't lie about that.

 

That's the thing, when comparing comparably priced clubs, I do think Mizuno comes out on top (I haven't tried the W/S), but there was only a tiny difference in feel between my Dynacrafts and the Mizunos.

 

Also I read that the Project X were better for diggers and the DG were better for sweepers.

 

Back on topic...

 

Very interesting. I'm solidly in the sweep category. I hardly take any divot.

 

When I was at the launch monitor, I'm not sure spin was being calculated correctly, so it's hard for me to say much about the DGs the Mizunos had compared to my Apollos. I was at the range just now and I was back to hitting it high. The guy at GG did say KBS Tours and Project X will go lower than DGs though, which I thought strange because the True Temper website lists the DGs are low launch shafts.

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

 

I was about to talk about shafts and feel compared to spin because I have tested and played a lot of different iron shafts, C-Taper is a beast.

 

TT DG x100 ~ Semi-harsh, i tended to have them balloon on me a little bit but if you want the most workability you also need the most spin on the ball so why it is a top choice of touring professionals, DG is probably the most workable shaft I have hit however you have to watch controlling the spin into the wind if a high spin player.

 

PX Chrome Satin Finish [Kim Braly (KBS) owned it back then] ~ harsh to semi-harsh, you can't find them anymore, rare shafts people still love them, they are a get shaft with medium trajectory and less spin the DG x1s

 

PX Polished Chrome Finish ~ harsh, these suckers feel like an iron poker in the load and release of the club. They are like the model in spin and trajectory, good for high spin high launch players bring down both aspects.

 

KBS Tour ~ Smooth feeling, though high launch and higher spin shaft is designed to help the ball in the air more then bring it down. The swing weight of these tends to act like they are counter balanced when really they are not a 'counter balanced' shaft. Recommended in wedges and long irons honestly, I have C-Taper in my 3 and 4 iron they come out like a tiger 2 iron stinger, low hard bullets.

 

KBS C-Taper ~ smooth feeling and wow these things are low trajectory, low spin and just wow nothing on the market like it. Probably the smoothest / softer feeling X iron shaft I have played. I will give a warning you need to be a high spin player and a high ball hitter to even really consider these, you need to make a solid good move down and through the ball to get enough spin to hold greens and enough height on them for carry, they come out penetrating bullets if you have trouble with hitting a high launch with a lot of spin try the C-Tapers.

 

KBS Tour VS (Tour Only) ~ heard it is something of a tip more like the C-Taper sort of between the KBS Tour and KBS C-Taper no idea if they plan to go to market with them or when.

 

Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 ~ I hear it plays a lot like a DG x100 but a smoother feel, I have not personally hit one to know so nothing other then that can I give you.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

 

 

That is what I thought also about the C Tapers. I read that last night. I was originally thinking about the Tour 90's. Because I obviously need more club head speed so that I get greater distance. I did come across some Dynalite Gold that were about the same as the Tour 90's so I swapped them out and honestly, I did not see much difference. I have been going lighter and weaker trying to gain distance, but not much is happening.

 

This is the same story I had with the driver. I was seeing maybe 7 to 10 yards difference on the various shafts. And had come to the conclusion that this was much ado about nothing. Why spend a couple of hundred bucks to gain 3 or 4 yards. I had a FT9 imix and would trade shafts regularly and most were 3 to 4 yards difference. I would go and get on the monitor and not much difference. And then I order the Tour AD DI and SHAZAM!!! It was 30 yards longer than the longest shaft. My lack of distance with the irons is not important any more because I barely use them except on the par 3's. Not really but it is a huge difference. I went from being the short game guy on the scramble team to at least the B Knocker. Maybe not the longest, but very long and in the fairway.

 

I really have not been that concerned about the irons until I fixed the driver problem. I did the on line KBS thing today and it never once told me to try the C Tapers. Obviously, the distance you put in trumps the swing speed because people are wrong about their speed. When I look at the speed it says to go with an S in C Taper and an S+ in Tour. But when I fill out the questionaire it tells me to use an R+ Tour. I have been going that way and not really seeing much change.

 

Years ago I had Hogan FTX with a 6.5 shaft. I liked them, I did not get much distance but I had an early release that I did not fix until long after those irons were gone. Also, I though I needed weaker shafts. Since then, I have fixed the early release but still hit the same distance.

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:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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