Shaft or the head?

[GolfSpy WD 13]

After my Nike Speed trial, I had some time to kill, so I went looking around Golf Galaxy at their various clubs. I had no intention of trying things out, but I saw the MP63s on sale for $599, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Not only was it the best feeling club I've ever tried, but it was crazy long. I was hitting the 5-iron 185-190 on every shot.

 

So my question is, with irons of the same loft and both forged, is there any difference is distance due to the club head? Or is it all due to the shaft?

 

The MP63s had S300s, my current irons have Apollo Phantoms and I hit those very high. For comparison my 5-iron goes about 170. So if I installed S300s in my current irons, should I expect to hit it as long as the MP63s? I'm still tempted to pick up the MP63s, but my wallet (and wife) would be much happier with me if I just swapped the shafts.

 

Either way, I won't do anything until I get fit, but I'm curious what everyone's experience has been.

 

Thanks.

[Matt Saternus 32]

My experience? Little bit of column A, little bit of column B. Switching shafts can have a big impact on ball flight and distance. Switching heads can do the same.

[Shambles 4]

I'm disinclined to give a whole lot of credit to the head once design and weight distribution have satisfied me. However, I doubt it matters a lot in this instance. A new set of irons at 600 sounds very good to me as against the cost of a new set of shafts and the corresponding cost of pulling, installing and the grips that would also be needed.

 

I'm sure you could save something but I doubt the difference is worth the time and trouble.

 

 

Shambles

[Phana24JG 1]

My experience? Little bit of column A, little bit of column B. Switching shafts can have a big impact on ball flight and distance. Switching heads can do the same.

 

Unless you want to spend a ton of money and probably take a long trip to a top fitting studio I think Matt is on the right track. If you wish, you could experiment with changing the shaft in your existing five iron and see if you get the same result. One suggestion if you do buy new clubs, ask if you can an extra six iron at a discount. That way in the future you can experiemnt with shafts, grips, counterweighing, etc and always have an accurate reference for comparison.

 

However, I suspect you are like the rest of us and the lure of shiny new toys will not permit you to wait for playing around with reshafting one club.

[GolfSpy WD 13]

Unless you want to spend a ton of money and probably take a long trip to a top fitting studio I think Matt is on the right track. If you wish, you could experiment with changing the shaft in your existing five iron and see if you get the same result. One suggestion if you do buy new clubs, ask if you can an extra six iron at a discount. That way in the future you can experiemnt with shafts, grips, counterweighing, etc and always have an accurate reference for comparison.

 

However, I suspect you are like the rest of us and the lure of shiny new toys will not permit you to wait for playing around with reshafting one club.

 

For a brand new set of MP63s at $599 I'm not sure I can resist not pulling the trigger much longer. I'm heading there after work. Depending on how far I hit them, my 50-54-58 CG15 wedges may make it back into the bag.

[ninjacobra 2]

i have fitted people that liked a particular head and with a different shaft and the right shaft can reallymake them gain more distance and tighter dispersion.

 

i had a little time today after work and i went on the launch monitor and i put 2 6 irons, R11 Head with Dynamic gold S300 vs Jpx Pro with Dynalite gold s 300. both shafts i hit between 183-195 averaging 187 and 188 depending how hard a swing.

 

with the slightly lighter weight on the dynalite i find it a lot easier to maneuver the ball and go after it a little more if i needed to. Dispersion did not suffer and i was having a better time hitting the Jpx Pro with a lighter weight shaft without having to try to hard as im not the strongest and biggest guy out there.

 

i think it would be worthwhile to get fitted instead of jst pulling a trigger on the irons. jst use the mizuno fitting cart and hit the optimizer 3 times with the mp63 heads. the first choice is usually pretty spot on

[GolfSpy WD 13]

i work at a golf shop and i have fitted many people that liked a particular head and with a different shaft gain more distance and tighter dispersion.

 

i had a little time today after work and i went on the launch monitor and i put 2 6 irons, R11 Head with Dynamic gold S300 vs Jpx Pro with Dynalite gold s 300. both shafts i hit between 183-195 averaging 187 and 188 depending how hard a swing.

 

with the slightly lighter weight on the dynalite i find it a lot easier to maneuver the ball and go after it a little more if i needed to. Dispersion did not suffer and i was having a better time hitting the Jpx Pro with a lighter weight shaft without having to try to hard as im not the strongest and biggest guy out there.

 

i think it would be worthwhile to get fitted instead of jst pulling a trigger on the irons. jst use the mizuno fitting cart and hit the optimizer 3 times with the mp63 heads. the first choice is usually pretty spot on

 

That's probably a good idea. Because these are clearance, they won't be able to change the shaft at that price. But they do have a fitting cart there, so I'll give it a try.

[ninjacobra 2]

That's probably a good idea. Because these are clearance, they won't be able to change the shaft at that price. But they do have a fitting cart there, so I'll give it a try.

 

the dynamic gold's weight is not sth that i want to deal with day in day out when i play. personally i like something more lightweight but still giving me control like the dynalite or Kbs, so try out the fitting cart and with the knowledge u can knw whether to buy them or jst look for another set with the shafts u want

[McGolf 289]

I agree that fitting is the way to go to ensure you buy the right equipment the first time.

 

In the original post you mentioned hitting it crazy long. Did you compare that iron to others available?

 

I ask that because I have many stories about LM's being jacked up in stores. When a golfer starts to hit longer in comparision to their current set it is like striking gold. That is until you get to the course.

 

If you did and the results showed longer and tighter than the current set then you may stumbled onto a good set and shaft for you. If not then see the first sentence.

[GolfSpy WD 13]

I agree that fitting is the way to go to ensure you buy the right equipment the first time.

 

In the original post you mentioned hitting it crazy long. Did you compare that iron to others available?

 

I ask that because I have many stories about LM's being jacked up in stores. When a golfer starts to hit longer in comparision to their current set it is like striking gold. That is until you get to the course.

 

If you did and the results showed longer and tighter than the current set then you may stumbled onto a good set and shaft for you. If not then see the first sentence.

 

Totally agree with you. I'm going there today with my current irons in hand, which I know how far I hit. I really wouldn't be surprised if the difference in length is due to the shaft since the DGs have a lower launch than my current shafts, but at that price it's hard to pass up.

[RookieBlue7 1,692]

Fitting, fitting, fitting. That's wherein your answer lies. Forged vs cast vs forged, doesn't really matter. It's about getting the specs right, manufacturer tolerances, getting the correct shaft into the correct head, etc. The head is the most important part of any fitting. Getting the loft, lie, shape, etc correct there is where it starts. From there, the shaft is a fine tuning tool to bring dispersion back into the equation and then get the launch characteristics fine tuned (launch angle, spin, etc). It's both that come together to marry the parts into a perfect fit for an individual to get optimal results.

 

And yes, always use your current clubs as a reference point hitting them side by side.

[GolfSpy WD 13]

Went in to do a side by side comparison of the Mizuno and my Dynacrafts. No difference at all in distance, honestly no difference in feel either. Kind of bittersweet because I was looking forward to new shiny toys, but it was great to validate that Hireko makes a helluva product. But, then again, I have $600 to spend on new shafts and maybe extra golf .

 

As for the long distances, it turns out on this monitor, anything with a draw or to the left gained extra distance. Anything to the right lost distance. The guy at GG even told me to get a completely accurate reading, it had to be straight down the middle. I hit a few of those and my distances were pretty much as expected in the 170-175 range for both clubs.

 

I'm going to keep the Dynacrafts for a while and see what Frank at Ace of Clubs recommends for a shaft.

[ninjacobra 2]

Fitting, fitting, fitting. That's wherein your answer lies. Forged vs cast vs forged, doesn't really matter. It's about getting the specs right, manufacturer tolerances, getting the correct shaft into the correct head, etc. The head is the most important part of any fitting. Getting the loft, lie, shape, etc correct there is where it starts. From there, the shaft is a fine tuning tool to bring dispersion back into the equation and then get the launch characteristics fine tuned (launch angle, spin, etc). It's both that come together to marry the parts into a perfect fit for an individual to get optimal results.

 

And yes, always use your current clubs as a reference point hitting them side by side.

 

thats exactly how ping does it

[GolfSpy WD 13]

WD, obviously I'm alittle biased regarding the Mizzys..Damn, $600?..I'd get 'em for a back-up..Regarding shaft vs. head, I bellieve that Matt hit it, alittle bit of both..Just like I've been a Mizuno player for a while, I've also used the TT DGs for ever..Probably cuz that's what the club had in it when I got it, I hit it well, & I'm a creature of habit..Though I did pick up a set of MP-33s(pristine) with the PX Rifle shafts(6.5)..I've also got the irons with the TT DG S400..The PX 33s flew about 5-7 yds further consistently & here's the kicker: my 33s/DG are bent 2* strong loftwise..So, maybe the shaft plays a role in the irons as it does in the driver..Probably does..Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

That's why I jumped when I saw them, but $600 is $600 and without any benefit in performance, I wasn't going to buy them. I can buy nearly two 5-PW sets of Prophet forged (@ $35 a head, $15/shaft, $2/grip) for that price.

 

So far (since I already got approval from the purchasing department, aka my wife), the $600 is being reassigned:

 

$225 for 9 KBS Tour shafts (assuming that's what is recommended to me, PX is about the same)

$150 for a SwingByte after I read the MGS review

$225+ for a 3wood shaft and hybrid shafts

[Shambles 4]

You got into this because of what you thought was a performance upgrade. You subsequently found out the was no performance upgrade. Why make changes ? Why not spend the money on range and fairway time getting to know your game better? Try investing in yourself.

 

 

Shambles

[GolfSpy WD 13]

You got into this because of what you thought was a performance upgrade. You subsequently found out the was no performance upgrade. Why make changes ? Why not spend the money on range and fairway time getting to know your game better? Try investing in yourself.

 

 

Shambles

 

Cause it's fun to do when I can't go to the range/course? I'm pretty sure a few more rounds should help drop my handicap, I'm playing much better already this year. Plus I'm very curious about how much a change in shaft can actually make.

 

One of the items on my list, the SwingByte, is to hopefully make non-range time more productive by being able to analyze my swing.

[Shambles 4]

Cause it's fun to do when I can't go to the range/course? I'm pretty sure a few more rounds should help drop my handicap, I'm playing much better already this year. Plus I'm very curious about how much a change in shaft can actually make.

 

One of the items on my list, the SwingByte, is to hopefully make non-range time more productive by being able to analyze my swing.

 

I hear you talking. I'm also weak in the same respect. It really is more fun to buy new equipment than to use the same old even if that same old is plenty good.

 

Sad part of life, for me in any case, is that change rarely gives immediate results to my benefit. If I did a good one, I can fix one or two particular aspects, but the rest of the armory also suffers change and needs getting to know again. So the end effect, for me in any case, is to make range and fairway time more needed.

 

When you've made your change, don't be too quick to conclude it was either good or bad. Take the time to find out it's effect on all your shots and do it on a real range. Nets are handy at home but if I'm going to pay for range time, I want to see a field in front of me.

 

 

Shambles

[RookieBlue7 1,692]

That's why I jumped when I saw them, but $600 is $600 and without any benefit in performance, I wasn't going to buy them. I can buy nearly two 5-PW sets of Prophet forged (@ $35 a head, $15/shaft, $2/grip) for that price.

 

So far (since I already got approval from the purchasing department, aka my wife), the $600 is being reassigned:

 

$225 for 9 KBS Tour shafts (assuming that's what is recommended to me, PX is about the same)

$150 for a SwingByte after I read the MGS review

$225+ for a 3wood shaft and hybrid shafts

You can save more than that on the KBS Tours. They're $165 from The Golf Source on eBay, and they're as legit as it gets (they're an authorized KBS dealer).You know, so you'll have that extra $60 or so to spend on more golf stuff.

[JMiller 18]

First thing is first Mizuno is known as the 'the poor mans Miura irons', they have always been known for their feel and their performance in the irons. So to score a set of irons for $600 that are new is a good deal, espesually since I know that wdgolf from his posts is trying to become a better player and is trending down in handicap, these irons will last him a long time so that he can just focus on his game once the shaft, length, lie & loft are adjusted to fit his swing and body type. Not to mention that the MP-63 is my favorite non-blade players CB, it just reminds me of my old MP-60s i used to play.

 

To answer the question of shafts or head, it is going to be both. As others have said in here already OEMs don't have a supper tight tolerance on the irons that you get off the rack would be too expensive to check every single COR, MOI, loft, lie on every club they produce. The tour van gets this done for them but they are a super small percentage of what is produced and a lot of times they have models that are not available to the public for example, TM R11s V2 (425cc) or R11 DOT (420c). I guess what I am getting at is the heads you get on the driver, fairway metal, rescue clubs, irons, wedges will all have slightly different results from testing with the same company and same brand of head.

 

You would need access to like a tour van or a top fitter that can have endless amount of resources to mix and match heads to get a target, you will spend a lot of money in this case. So much you might as well go for the Miura clubs special order components is what they do. I have heard some interesting stories about grooves, loft, lie, length, COR & MOI reading from the same models of 6 iron just different heads that were tested. Typically the 6 or 7 iron is the biggest piece of s*** in the set because that is the club the company produces the most of for demo clubs. Anyways, you really can't control the heads so much but you can at least control the shaft that fits your game the best for your swing and body type in terms of length, lie angle, loft, type of shaft, bend profile, spin rates, you get the idea.

 

I know that when I was having my W/S lie and loft adjusted / checked when i got them the lie angles were all really close to specs on their website. All of the lofts were to spec except the 6iron it was 1* weak of spec, easy fix. That might not sound like something you care about but 1* of loft is about 3-5 yards of distance. In terms of trying to land it into a 5 or 10 foot circle with that club it might matter to some people.

[GolfSpy WD 13]

You can save more than that on the KBS Tours. They're $165 from The Golf Source on eBay, and they're as legit as it gets (they're an authorized KBS dealer).You know, so you'll have that extra $60 or so to spend on more golf stuff.

 

Thanks for that tip RB7!