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Is it really the toughest field in golf? Debate away.


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Is the Players really the strongest field in golf? Pretty much aren't the same players playing this weekend also at the PGA, US Open and British Open? I realize the Masters has less players, but aren't the top players involved?

Can any field call itself the toughest when Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, Bryson DeChambeau, Joaquin Niemann, and the DEFENDING CHAMPION, Cam Smith are not in the field? I mean most if not all these guys will be in the majors.

Not defending LIV, but I can't stand the self-aggrandizing from the Tour over it's flagship tournament.

Thoughts?

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4 minutes ago, Beakbryce said:

Is the Players really the strongest field in golf? Pretty much aren't the same players playing this weekend also at the PGA, US Open and British Open? I realize the Masters has less players, but aren't the top players involved?

Can any field call itself the toughest when Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, Bryson DeChambeau, Joaquin Niemann, and the DEFENDING CHAMPION, Cam Smith are not in the field? I mean most if not all these guys will be in the majors.

Not defending LIV, but I can't stand the self-aggrandizing from the Tour over it's flagship tournament.

Thoughts?

Yes. When you look at the strength of field rankings of the players vs the majors, the players has a higher strength of field.

Its based on the world rankings of the field and when you look at majors there are players that have exemptions to them that may not currently be ranked high.

And yes when those players aren’t in the field it can still be a stronger field because their world rankings are dropping 

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7 minutes ago, Beakbryce said:

Is the Players really the strongest field in golf? Pretty much aren't the same players playing this weekend also at the PGA, US Open and British Open? I realize the Masters has less players, but aren't the top players involved?

 

If looking at the field from top to bottom (all players in the event) it is probably the strongest field.  The Masters has past champions and players that probably shouldn't be playing in the event.  The PGA has non touring professionals, the US and British Open have spots for non professionals to quality.  

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

If looking at the field from top to bottom (all players in the event) it is probably the strongest field.  The Masters has past champions and players that probably shouldn't be playing in the event.  The PGA has non touring professionals, the US and British Open have spots for non professionals to quality.  

I understand this argument. Nicklaus has always said the Masters was the easiest Major to win because it was a small field with the player problems you mentioned. For the Opens, I realize that the bottom of the field has qualifiers, but many in the Players field will be in those tournaments trying to qualify for the Opens and won't make it. There are what, 20-25 club pros in the PGA with hardly any making the cut every year. However, some of the chaff is the difference in the size of the field, with 144 at the Players and 156 at the PGA and both Opens. This causes problems when averaging the strength of field. It's not apples to apples, it's apples to oranges.

Edited by Beakbryce

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1 hour ago, Beakbryce said:

Is the Players really the strongest field in golf? Pretty much aren't the same players playing this weekend also at the PGA, US Open and British Open? I realize the Masters has less players, but aren't the top players involved?

Can any field call itself the toughest when Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, Bryson DeChambeau, Joaquin Niemann, and the DEFENDING CHAMPION, Cam Smith are not in the field? I mean most if not all these guys will be in the majors.

Not defending LIV, but I can't stand the self-aggrandizing from the Tour over it's flagship tournament.

Thoughts?

Heck, I don't even know who half the golfers are.

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes. When you look at the strength of field rankings of the players vs the majors, the players has a higher strength of field.

Its based on the world rankings of the field and when you look at majors there are players that have exemptions to them that may not currently be ranked high.

And yes when those players aren’t in the field it can still be a stronger field because their world rankings are dropping 

Has anyone actually done the math? Just curious. The Masters is pretty obvious, but the others? Since the Players has 144 players, if you take the top 144 from the other Majors, will they statistically be worse? Any math guys out there that want to report back later in the year? Will this be skewed because the OWGR doesn't properly represent the LIV players?

Which goes to LIV golfers diluting the strength of field. Are the LIV player rankings dropping because of an artificial barrier using OWGR, or because they actually suck at playing golf? 

There are 9 of the top 10 at the Players. I believe the one missing, is Cam Smith who is the defending champion. I reckon all 10 will be at the Majors barring injury.

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14 minutes ago, Beakbryce said:

Has anyone actually done the math? Just curious. The Masters is pretty obvious, but the others? Since the Players has 144 players, if you take the top 144 from the other Majors, will they statistically be worse? Any math guys out there that want to report back later in the year? Will this be skewed because the OWGR doesn't properly represent the LIV players?

Which goes to LIV golfers diluting the strength of field. Are the LIV player rankings dropping because of an artificial barrier using OWGR, or because they actually suck at playing golf? 

There are 9 of the top 10 at the Players. I believe the one missing, is Cam Smith who is the defending champion. I reckon all 10 will be at the Majors barring injury.

https://datagolf.com/field-strength-table

Based on my quick evaluation,  the events that have stronger fields than the Players are limited field events. 

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1 hour ago, Beakbryce said:

Has anyone actually done the math? Just curious. The Masters is pretty obvious, but the others? Since the Players has 144 players, if you take the top 144 from the other Majors, will they statistically be worse? Any math guys out there that want to report back later in the year? Will this be skewed because the OWGR doesn't properly represent the LIV players?

OWGR does represent them because it’s based on how they play over the course of 2 years. If they aren’t playing events that earn points they are going to lose points. There’s also no guarantee that if they were still on the pga tour they would have success this year to keep them at their current rankink. Outside of cam smith most have been on the decline for awhile.

I get it you think because of their name recognition and past success they are still top players, but again other than smith most were dropping out of the top 10 and even top 20 before they went to liv

1 hour ago, Beakbryce said:

Which goes to LIV golfers diluting the strength of field. Are the LIV player rankings dropping because of an artificial barrier using OWGR, or because they actually suck at playing golf? 

 

It’s a combo. They were losing spots while they were on the pga tour and now the less they play in events earning points their rankings are going to drop.

1 hour ago, Beakbryce said:

There are 9 of the top 10 at the Players. I believe the one missing, is Cam Smith who is the defending champion. I reckon all 10 will be at the Majors barring injury.

This is why the players is the toughest field in golf. It doesn’t matter the names that are there it’s the number of highly ranked players from top to bottom of the field.

as cnosil posted the strength of fields is always posted year to year and the players beats out the majors, no need for any math guys here, there are already places where the numbers are calculated

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My tuppence worth.

Players competitiveness wax and wane and IMO with the exception of Cam Smith and perhaps DJ they would not strengthen the field.

We can debate all we like about the strongest/toughest field or not but at the end of the day the LIV golfers have their massive pay outs and joined for this reason alone,  

It irks me somewhat that some of the LIV players are still eligible to play on the European events and they turn up only for the flag ship events, depriving up and coming players the opportunity to secure playing rights and get their biggest purse of the year. What are people like Poulter going to do with the $100k for making the cut, buy another Ferrari?

 

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I'm going to guess one of the Majors will have a better field. 

This is a great field, but not much different than other designated events. The best fields will include Cam and DJ... okay maybe throw Brooks and Bryson in there too. 

However I can't say that this is a bad field or I don't think it is a great field without those LIV players. It is another great event, with some star power and top players who will hopefully have good weeks along with some surprises to make for an entertaining week of golf to watch. 

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14 hours ago, Beakbryce said:

Is the Players really the strongest field in golf? Pretty much aren't the same players playing this weekend also at the PGA, US Open and British Open? I realize the Masters has less players, but aren't the top players involved?

Can any field call itself the toughest when Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, Bryson DeChambeau, Joaquin Niemann, and the DEFENDING CHAMPION, Cam Smith are not in the field? I mean most if not all these guys will be in the majors.

Not defending LIV, but I can't stand the self-aggrandizing from the Tour over it's flagship tournament.

Thoughts?

just to comment on your masters thought, it is the weakest on paper of all the majors, as it is an invitational and their traditions allow past winners in perpetuity, once you scrape through all the "special" invites and the old players there is usually only 20 players legitimately able to win at Agusta.... having said that it is still my favourite. 

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Each of the Majors and top tier events have deep fields, a unique qualification process which make that event special. They all have unbelievable pressure and the fields, purses and courses played reflect the uniqueness of the event. 

Play like a champion today!

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14 hours ago, Beakbryce said:

Has anyone actually done the math? Just curious. The Masters is pretty obvious, but the others? Since the Players has 144 players, if you take the top 144 from the other Majors, will they statistically be worse? Any math guys out there that want to report back later in the year? Will this be skewed because the OWGR doesn't properly represent the LIV players?

Which goes to LIV golfers diluting the strength of field. Are the LIV player rankings dropping because of an artificial barrier using OWGR, or because they actually suck at playing golf? 

There are 9 of the top 10 at the Players. I believe the one missing, is Cam Smith who is the defending champion. I reckon all 10 will be at the Majors barring injury.

Aside from the Tour Championship, it's arguably the strongest the now weakened PGA will field in any event this year.  The tour has lost some serious talent and regardless of OWGR points, these guys not being in events has weakened PGA fields collectively.

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6 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Aside from the Tour Championship, it's arguably the strongest the now weakened PGA will field in any event this year.  The tour has lost some serious talent and regardless of OWGR points, these guys not being in events has weakened PGA fields collectively.

I couldn't have said it better than this.

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Jerry Kelly is in the field for god's sake. He is 56 years old (no offense) and obviously is unranked via OWGR. Kelly Kraft, Nick Watney, Doc Redan, Dylan Wu, Andrew Novak, Aaron Baddeley, Austin Smotherman. I think there are a decent number of Korn Ferry players that could beat these guys most weeks. 

Edited by vandyland

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4 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I'm going to guess one of the Majors will have a better field. 

This is a great field, but not much different than other designated events. The best fields will include Cam and DJ... okay maybe throw Brooks and Bryson in there too. 

However I can't say that this is a bad field or I don't think it is a great field without those LIV players. It is another great event, with some star power and top players who will hopefully have good weeks along with some surprises to make for an entertaining week of golf to watch. 

Best field from fan or name recognition or best field from strength of field perspective?

3 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

the US open would be the deepest field as it allows golfers to qualify for the event. 

Deepest as far as what? 

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When I think of the PGA's "it's merely a scratch" response to players departing for LIV, this skit immediately comes to mind. 😆

 

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1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

Deepest as far as skilled players

Is it though? The strength of field rankings would indicate the most skilled players are in the events with the stronger fields and the US Open isn’t one of them. There are less skilled players in those based on the fact there are spots filled by high level ams and many times top tour pros who aren’t exempted don’t qualify for it via the qualifying events. Just go back to the last couple years and see how many pga pros missed qualifying in the last round of the qualifiers.

If I read the data right the Genesis invitational has a deeper field.

 

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7 hours ago, vandyland said:

Jerry Kelly is in the field for god's sake. He is 56 years old (no offense) and obviously is unranked via OWGR. Kelly Kraft, Nick Watney, Doc Redan, Dylan Wu, Andrew Novak, Aaron Baddeley, Austin Smotherman. I think there are a decent number of Korn Ferry players that could beat these guys most weeks. 

It looks very much like Jerry Kelly will play the weekend and a healthy handful of top shelf ranked players will not.  I really feel the "strength of field" thing is overplayed.  

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

It looks very much like Jerry Kelly will play the weekend and a healthy handful of top shelf ranked players will not.  I really feel the "strength of field" thing is overplayed.  

My post didn’t “age” well haha. But still, it doesn’t strengthen the field to have Kelly in it BUT it is a course he can actually play because it isn’t crazy long.

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31 minutes ago, vandyland said:

My post didn’t “age” well haha. But still, it doesn’t strengthen the field to have Kelly in it BUT it is a course he can actually play because it isn’t crazy long.

Probably should remember horses for courses…..ha ha

Play like a champion today!

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9 hours ago, vandyland said:

My post didn’t “age” well haha. But still, it doesn’t strengthen the field to have Kelly in it BUT it is a course he can actually play because it isn’t crazy long.

Doesn’t matter the name of a person or their rank, it’s the rankings of all the field. 

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Strength of field is different this year to others with how OWGR has changed too. 

Also I really don't give consideration to FedEx cup standings as they are still weighted towards the fall season point totals.

I think seeing how the LIV guys perform at the masters will give us insight to how much rust those players have and where they stand in the pecking order!

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Strength of field is different this year to others with how OWGR has changed too. 

Also I really don't give consideration to FedEx cup standings as they are still weighted towards the fall season point totals.

I think seeing how the LIV guys perform at the masters will give us insight to how much rust those players have and where they stand in the pecking order!

Well here's a toast hoping someone from LIV wins the Masters.

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Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1x

 

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13 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Well here's a toast hoping someone from LIV wins the Masters.

image.png.0d94c59074a00e9953f3cf7d4e6551e1.png

Yeah I won't be toasting to that. Sorry.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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18 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Well here's a toast hoping someone from LIV wins the Masters.

image.png.0d94c59074a00e9953f3cf7d4e6551e1.png

Other than Cam Smith, I don't see me rooting for any of the LIV players to win The Masters.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft

Ball:  Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer...Shoes: :footjoy-small: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather

 

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

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