SIM2 to TSR2 -> Lost 20-25 yards of carry/distance

[Stinger Sanchez]

Before I ask my question, I want to caveat this discussion by first sharing that driver is not my strong suit. It is one of the weaker/weakest parts of my game, along with pitching (unlike my irons/approach/chipping/putting, etc.). I tend to be better when practicing with a simulator, but when I play a round, I often shy away from using the driver.

My SIM2 recently broke, and I purchased a TSR2 at the golf store. I have had a couple of sessions with the driver, and I am finding my carry/distance numbers  to be 20-30 yards shorter than when I useed the SIM2. 

• SIM2 average distance: 260-275 yards
• TSR2 average distance: 230-245 yards (I hit maybe only 3-4 shots over 250 out of 45-50 shots)

I use a BGT Brava (stiff flex) shaft, which I took from the SIM2 to replace the stock shaft pf the TSR2. 

I am wondering if the drop off of this magnitude is normal. Also, I wonder if it's possible that my Brava shaft doens't go well with the TSR2, and hence I am producing this result. I did not change my swing, so I really am not sure what it is? Would there be such a large discrepance if a low handicap were to try both drivers? FYI, my club head speed is around 100-105.

[GolfSpy_APH]

23 minutes ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

Before I ask my question, I want to caveat this discussion by first sharing that driver is not my strong suit. It is one of the weaker/weakest parts of my game, along with pitching (unlike my irons/approach/chipping/putting, etc.). I tend to be better when practicing with a simulator, but when I play a round, I often shy away from using the driver.

My SIM2 recently broke, and I purchased a TSR2 at the golf store. I have had a couple of sessions with the driver, and I am finding my carry/distance numbers  to be 20-30 yards shorter than when I useed the SIM2. 

• SIM2 average distance: 260-275 yards
• TSR2 average distance: 230-245 yards (I hit maybe only 3-4 shots over 250 out of 45-50 shots)

I use a BGT Brava (stiff flex) shaft, which I took from the SIM2 to replace the stock shaft pf the TSR2. 

I am wondering if the drop off of this magnitude is normal. Also, I wonder if it's possible that my Brava shaft doens't go well with the TSR2, and hence I am producing this result. I did not change my swing, so I really am not sure what it is? Would there be such a large discrepance if a low handicap were to try both drivers? FYI, my club head speed is around 100-105.

Do you have full break down from your Sim2? Launch, spin and the works? 

Then if you take some of that and compare it to the TSR2 that could help. 

What lofts are both clubs in? Did you have one on a draw setting or? 

Sorry lots of questions, but there is a bit too much missing info to really give you a definitive answer one way or another. 

[Hook DeLoft]

Like @GolfSpy_APH said, there are so many variables.  The club heads may be different weights, which would change swing weight and, possibly, the way the shaft and head work together.  The clubs may be different lies or different overall lengths.  The Sim2 may have produced spin that was much better for your speed and launch conditions than the spin produced by the Titleist.  The clubs may be different lofts, even if they have the same stated loft.  The interior weighting of the heads may be causing different launches, ball speeds and spin.  I would start with going to the range and trying different hosel settings on the Titleist.  You may find one that solves the problems.

[GolfSpy_BOS]

What does the ball flight look like compared to the Sim2?  Are you seeing more fade/draw, higher/lower launch, anything like that?

Easiest solution would be to get on a LM and see some data to see where you might be not-optimal compared to the Sim2.  

[Stinger Sanchez]

26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

What does the ball flight look like compared to the Sim2?  Are you seeing more fade/draw, higher/lower launch, anything like that?

Easiest solution would be to get on a LM and see some data to see where you might be not-optimal compared to the Sim2.  

The launch is significantly lower. The driver is marketed as a high launch head, but my TSR2 shots were all mid launch.

[Stinger Sanchez]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Do you have full break down from your Sim2? Launch, spin and the works? 

Then if you take some of that and compare it to the TSR2 that could help. 

What lofts are both clubs in? Did you have one on a draw setting or? 

Sorry lots of questions, but there is a bit too much missing info to really give you a definitive answer one way or another. 

I don't think I have the data, even though I go to the simulator to practice a lot. Both clubs are in neutral settings. SIM2 was 10.5* loft and the new TSR2 is 10* loft. And of course, the tee height is consistent for every single shot, since it's the sim.

Very frustrating to lose 20-25 yards of carry/distance.

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 minute ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

I don't think I have the data, even though I go to the simulator to practice a lot. Both clubs are in neutral settings. SIM2 was 10.5* loft and the new TSR2 is 10* loft. And of course, the tee height is consistent for every single shot, since it's the sim.

Very frustrating to lose 20-25 yards of carry/distance.

Definitely work to get to a simulator and see what the numbers are like on the TSR. There could be some clues there. Could be launching higher due to spinning up or more?

[Javs]

3 hours ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

Before I ask my question, I want to caveat this discussion by first sharing that driver is not my strong suit. It is one of the weaker/weakest parts of my game, along with pitching (unlike my irons/approach/chipping/putting, etc.). I tend to be better when practicing with a simulator, but when I play a round, I often shy away from using the driver.

My SIM2 recently broke, and I purchased a TSR2 at the golf store. I have had a couple of sessions with the driver, and I am finding my carry/distance numbers  to be 20-30 yards shorter than when I useed the SIM2. 

• SIM2 average distance: 260-275 yards
• TSR2 average distance: 230-245 yards (I hit maybe only 3-4 shots over 250 out of 45-50 shots)

I use a BGT Brava (stiff flex) shaft, which I took from the SIM2 to replace the stock shaft pf the TSR2. 

I am wondering if the drop off of this magnitude is normal. Also, I wonder if it's possible that my Brava shaft doens't go well with the TSR2, and hence I am producing this result. I did not change my swing, so I really am not sure what it is? Would there be such a large discrepance if a low handicap were to try both drivers? FYI, my club head speed is around 100-105.

Did you hit the TSR2 with the stock shaft on the range or course before you switched? I would be interested to see if you lost that much distance before the shaft swop. 

[richk9holes]

I have an older Titleist driver, the TS2, but I saw 30 yard loss when I switched from a Tour Edge EXS. I keep using it because the dispersion is so much tighter with the TS2 but there are days I miss the yardage. 

[TylorJudd]

I'm leaning towards swing weight changes, but I remember when I switch to my Callaway for the first time and was hitting like dog s***, until I realized I was reading the hosel wrong. Is it as simple as the hosel setting since you've gone to a hosel with greater adjustability?

[NM01]

17 hours ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

The launch is significantly lower. The driver is marketed as a high launch head, but my TSR2 shots were all mid launch.

The marketing is just that and is just a general description. The user determines how the ball launches, spins, etc.

 

17 hours ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

I don't think I have the data, even though I go to the simulator to practice a lot. Both clubs are in neutral settings. SIM2 was 10.5* loft and the new TSR2 is 10* loft. And of course, the tee height is consistent for every single shot, since it's the sim.

Very frustrating to lose 20-25 yards of carry/distance.

Without the data from the sim2 to compare it will be hard to say what changed between the two drivers, but if you get launch, spin, dynamic loft, peak height, descent angle, ball speed we can see what’s happening with the titleist driver.

But there are lots of variables at play. The weight and balance of the titleist can be affecting your delivery and you could be hitting lower on the face compared to the tm driver. The cg placement could be not as good for your swing.

This is where blind buying is a bad thing

[Subdiver1]

I am severely confused.  You said your SIM2 broke so you bought a TSR2, but you replaced the stock Titleist shaft with the one from the SIM.  From that I am led to assume it was the head that broke so why not just get a replacement SIM2 head?  Especially if you had good performance with it.

That aside, interesting results.  That sucks though.  I tested the TSi drivers and irons last fall at a local course during a Titleist fitting day.  The TSi2 with a Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 60 pretty much identical to my G400 performance; which for me was superior (the G400) to the SIM2 when I compared those at another fitting event.  Honestly, I haven't found a club yet that matches the G400-shaft combo I have.

So, what is my point?  As noted by others, not having tried the club in the store to get numbers and maybe a couple of different shaft options to see what might change, you have no baseline to compare what you are getting to what you might have had.  Your SIM numbers hardly matter until you get the Titleist dialed in to see what you might be able to get out of it; then you can compare whether swapping to another brad was a good move.  As noted, again, the TSR may not even be the right club for you for a multitude of reasons, regardless of any shaft option the store might give you.  Go back to the store.  Most of the stores up here would at least give you a significant return in the form of store credit if they could not dial it in to your satisfaction so you could put it toward something else.  Hopefully your store would do the same.

Hope you can get it figured out.

[revkev]

I agree that there is a big lack of information that makes it very hard to help out.  I'll start with one that hasn't been touched upon.  Is this based on simulator numbers of on course observations?  

 

If its simulator are you sure the machine you are using is accurate?  Could something have happened to recalibrate it?  I don't mean to imply anything by this but could you have switched from yards to meters? (I've accidentally switched from golf to baseball mode on my swing speed monitor before.)

 

If its on the course I don't know where you live but season of the year can make a significant difference.  I loose 10 to 15 yards in the summer in Florida because it's so wet. When I lived up North the opposite was the case.  

 

Like others I'm wondering why you didn't just go with a new SIM2.  Also since the head cracked did you reach out to Taylor Made to see if they'd do anything for you?

 

Just lots of questions to answer first.  

 

Good luck

[Stinger Sanchez]

1 hour ago, revkev said:

I agree that there is a big lack of information that makes it very hard to help out.  I'll start with one that hasn't been touched upon.  Is this based on simulator numbers of on course observations?  

 

If its simulator are you sure the machine you are using is accurate?  Could something have happened to recalibrate it?  I don't mean to imply anything by this but could you have switched from yards to meters? (I've accidentally switched from golf to baseball mode on my swing speed monitor before.)

 

If its on the course I don't know where you live but season of the year can make a significant difference.  I loose 10 to 15 yards in the summer in Florida because it's so wet. When I lived up North the opposite was the case.  

 

Like others I'm wondering why you didn't just go with a new SIM2.  Also since the head cracked did you reach out to Taylor Made to see if they'd do anything for you?

 

Just lots of questions to answer first.  

 

Good luck

I live in an Asian city, and they don't carry as many older models as they may do in North America. The store had many Stealth and Stealth 2's (including their variations), but not the Sim2 anymore. There weren't any available in the used section.

I had like 4 rounds of golf in 2 weeks, and so I was kind of desperate to get a new driver, and I just felt like the TSR2 would be a good fit based on what I read and watched, as well as having tried a couple swings previously on the course with a friend's.

The simulator was the same simulator at the same usual spot that I go to, and without a doubt in golf mode.

Unfortunately, I did not really record my launch angle and spin numbers with my SIM2, so full comparison might be tough now.

On the equipment side, besides the head, overall swing weight was lower with the new TSR2 (D2) vs Sim2(D4). But, honestly, when I had my Sim2 at C9, I hit the ball even slightly further. Not sure what the deal is with my new driver. 

My typical clubhead speed for both clubs average at around 100-103 range. Top would be like 105/106, and low would be 98ish.

[NM01]

1 hour ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

I live in an Asian city, and they don't carry as many older models as they may do in North America. The store had many Stealth and Stealth 2's (including their variations), but not the Sim2 anymore. There weren't any available in the used section.

I had like 4 rounds of golf in 2 weeks, and so I was kind of desperate to get a new driver, and I just felt like the TSR2 would be a good fit based on what I read and watched, as well as having tried a couple swings previously on the course with a friend's.

The simulator was the same simulator at the same usual spot that I go to, and without a doubt in golf mode.

Unfortunately, I did not really record my launch angle and spin numbers with my SIM2, so full comparison might be tough now.

On the equipment side, besides the head, overall swing weight was lower with the new TSR2 (D2) vs Sim2(D4). But, honestly, when I had my Sim2 at C9, I hit the ball even slightly further. Not sure what the deal is with my new driver. 

My typical clubhead speed for both clubs average at around 100-103 range. Top would be like 105/106, and low would be 98ish.

Until we see launch monitor numbers with the titlest we won’t know what’s going on

[ballhawk]

Even though there is no actual data available, the main key element, at least for me, is your stated swing speed. If both clubs are equal and your losing that much distance, it may/could be that the head in question is not authentic. 

[GolferXY]

Sounds like launch and spin are doing you in.  The Titleist has lots of lie and loft settings.  Have you messed around with those to see if you can maximize the ball flight?  Also, did you get fit for the driver before you purchased it?