Deep Thoughts: Steel Shafts

[richk9holes]

This chart has me doing a lot of thinking.

[richk9holes]

Usually when this happens I spend $ changing my golf equipment.

I think I may be swinging more confidently and could benefit from replacing my high launch lightweight steel Elevate 95 vss R flex. They served me well to this point, but at $26×6 plus install I have my eyes on replacing 6-AW with NS gh pro in a heavier weight. 

#2 on my list is Modus 105, only bc I've yet to try them and I think they are close to the profile I want.

I am looking forward to getting my Sub70 UT, the KBS Tour v 90 I got is the first steel shaft I've used from KBS. They'd have to be really good to get me to pay almost double. 

[richk9holes]

Photo error

Edited March 21 by richk9holes
Updated

[richk9holes]

I tried posting those without duplicates sorry for the eyesore, but that is an idea of the progress with the irons, I have been using the 6i to warm up since it's been added about 6-8 months ago. I had carried 7i with a 6-7 hybrid iron while I was double bogey or worse a few years ago getting back after a long break up with the game.

[richk9holes]

I find my worst strikes are when I swing an iron 87 mph swing speed or more. My best strikes are when I tone that down about 1.5 mph and have a controlled fluid tempo. I think the 20g in the shaft may make that difference to slow me down that much.

[richk9holes]

I'm curious to hear others opinion on a mid launch shaft in the 100-115 range for someone swinging 83-86mph with a 6/7i

[rkj427]

Modus 105, 115, 120

Dynamic Gold 105 

Project X I/O

All shafts have different profiles, based on your swing, best to get fit into them for optimal results

[richk9holes]

3 hours ago, rkj427 said:

Modus 105, 115, 120

Dynamic Gold 105 

Project X I/O

All shafts have different profiles, based on your swing, best to get fit into them for optimal results

This is the best solution for most people doing this pondering. I'm a believer in the value of club fitters. 

My personal factors lead me to the less than ideal scenario of self fitting by trial and error. I pay monthly for access to Trackman already, I have put together my bag and several previous "sets" not more than 2 clubs that match at a time with a hodgepodge of dozens of shafts over the years.

I am also, as the kids say "Ballin on a budget." My total budget for irons is $250-$300 for changing the shafts on mine or $400-450 if I trade mine for a different shaft/head setup. Taking $100 from that budget for custom fitting seems deleterious to the quality of equipment I'll likely walk away with.

Also, I am a double digit handicap with a highly irregular and inconsistent swing. My personal leaning is I'd get fitted if I could ever legitimately call myself a single digit.

Edited March 19 by richk9holes
Additional information

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 hours ago, richk9holes said:

I'm curious to hear others opinion on a mid launch shaft in the 100-115 range for someone swinging 83-86mph with a 6/7i

The marketed launch characteristics are just a generic description of the shaft design, where the stiffness is in the shaft.

Example the x7 are low launch and low spin but tiger hits them high.

Another example is the s300 and px 6.0 shafts are also low launch, i hit them high and the same height as modus 120 S

How the weight of the shafts, balance of the club and how they feel to the golfer will influence the swing and that’s whats going to determine the launch characteristics 

[richk9holes]

I hit the ball high, which is why I want to try a kbs 100g shaft or NS gh 1050 rather than my 90g Elevate. I feel destined to hit front aprons and fronts of tiered greens unless I take extra club, then I invite the dreaded "perfect swing didn't plan on" where I send it over 18 yards short side myself and make triple off a "sweet strike" from the tee.

I will get a lot of information from using the utility iron I have coming.

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, richk9holes said:

I hit the ball high, which is why I want to try a kbs 100g shaft or NS gh 1050 rather than my 90g Elevate. I feel destined to hit front aprons and fronts of tiered greens unless I take extra club, then I invite the dreaded "perfect swing didn't plan on" where I send it over 18 yards short side myself and make triple off a "sweet strike" from the tee.

I will get a lot of information from using the utility iron I have coming.

Why do you hit it high? Knowing why something happens goes a long way.

Adding loft is usually why most amateurs hit the ball high. Shafts can influence that negatively or positively. Depends on how the change in shaft weight and/or profile affects the golfers delivery.

What is your dynamic loft?

where on the face are you making contact?

whats your launch and spin?

These are all things that need to be evaluated and then compared when you switch shafts to see what changed and how it’s affecting results 

[richk9holes]

The Dick's SG by my house has a pre-owned PXG 4i 0311xf 5-PW 0311 combo set with modus 3 tour 105 reg flex.

I'm not too interested in the clubs as a set, but I stopped in for the 3rd time and waggle the heck out of the 6 and 7 irons today. They feel so GD balanced I kinda want to spend the $250 to change my stock shafts. 

That's my non analytical side of my mind talking, btw.

[richk9holes]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Why do you hit it high? Knowing why something happens goes a long way.

Adding loft is usually why most amateurs hit the ball high. Shafts can influence that negatively or positively. Depends on how the change in shaft weight and/or profile affects the golfers delivery.

What is your dynamic loft?

where on the face are you making contact?

whats your launch and spin?

These are all things that need to be evaluated and then compared when you switch shafts to see what changed and how it’s affecting results 

Trackman gives me launch 18.5° on a good 86mph swing in the center of a 6i (26.5°) attack angle of -3° resulting in 75' apex, 5800 spin 140 yard carry 150 yard total. That club has a TT XP 95 R flex and is 1" longer than standard at 38.5".

A 9i (38.5°) which has the Elevate 95 vss R flex shaft like the rest of my set best result shows 26° launch on 82.5 mph swing speed, attack angle -4.5° creating a 95' apex, 9000 spin 123 carry 125 total.

Dynamic loft is fuzzy w/o knowing the adjustments used for the different nuances. I would guess between 13-16°.

My most common miss is a toe strike followed by a low on the face strike. Rarely toward the heel.

When I can get stats from the 24° UT in a couple weeks I will have those to compare to the 6i numbers. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, richk9holes said:

Trackman gives me launch 18.5° on a good 86mph swing in the center of a 6i (26.5°) attack angle of -3° resulting in 75' apex, 5800 spin 140 yard carry 150 yard total. That club has a TT XP 95 R flex and is 1" longer than standard at 38.5".

A 9i (38.5°) which has the Elevate 95 vss R flex shaft like the rest of my set best result shows 26° launch on 82.5 mph swing speed, attack angle -4.5° creating a 95' apex, 9000 spin 123 carry 125 total.

Dynamic loft is fuzzy w/o knowing the adjustments used for the different nuances. I would guess between 13-16°.

My most common miss is a toe strike followed by a low on the face strike. Rarely toward the heel.

When I can get stats from the 24° UT in a couple weeks I will have those to compare to the 6i numbers. 

If you are swing 82.5 on 9i and 86 on 6i your distances are off. Mid 80s swing speed with a 6i is going to have carry in the 165is range and 82.5 mph 9i swing speed is going to be around 150.

Also a 75’ 6i isn’t high ball flight. The 95’ 9i is about normal.

I would prefer to see screen shots from trackman. Something doesn’t seem to be adding up 

[richk9holes]

These are the reasons this is the conversation I'd never pay $95 to have. Having free chats and experimenting with equipment seems to suit me.

I have side action on my swing which contributes to a loss of yardage. My stock shot has about 25' of right movement. 

There are screen captures the best I can get above, can't seem to switch the view horizontal to get grabs on the trackman app to get every column. Once I posted them here and they started duplicating I gave up the endeavor. 

Another thing I'll say is trackman seems to shave about 8% of my distance. These are #s from January. I have notes on scorecards from that whole month that say 158 to back, 6i on back..163 to pin 6i PH, etc

[richk9holes]

My hunch is Trackman doesn't capture my entire shot arc because it goes outside what the thing can capture when I hit a good high fade.

[richk9holes]

Here's the full trackman data on some concise 8i swings I took early Jan. I am hitting my iron a little better now, still very inconsistent.

[cnosil]

@richk9holes  looked through your posts and here is my self researched non professional opinion.   

You said you have an I consistent swing, hit the ball too high, think trackman misreads your ball flight, and cuts off some of your distance versus on course.  
 

I don’t think you ball flight is too high; although you do have some inconsistent results.  For reference, I saw in a TXG video that ball height for normal speed players should match the swing speed for your 6 iron.   For you that means ball height should be in the 86’ range based on what you provided.   This would be desired height for all clubs. 
 

As for trackman distances,  some people don’t swing well indoors and some people do report discrepancies in distance.   When comparing are you looking at carry or total distance?  I am surprised yout trackman carry and total are the same wonder why the setting for fairway conditions are set to?  You mention that you think trackman isn’t reading all your flight; I think you are mistaken as you don’t have anything wildly out of norm with you ball flight. 
 

your swing is fairly consistent; most are, you seem to alter you AoA a bunch though.   Your swing is significantly out to in with a face very open to that path which gives you some left to right curve, 30’ isn’t much.  The path and face angle means that you don’t hit the ball solid since you cut across the ball so much.  Our to in isn’t bad,  but reining that in to about 3 or 4 degrees and fixing face angle would go a long way in getting better launch conditions.

I personally wouldn’t worry about equipment changes and would focus more on some swing tweaks. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 hours ago, richk9holes said:

These are the reasons this is the conversation I'd never pay $95 to have. Having free chats and experimenting with equipment seems to suit me.

I have side action on my swing which contributes to a loss of yardage. My stock shot has about 25' of right movement. 

There are screen captures the best I can get above, can't seem to switch the view horizontal to get grabs on the trackman app to get every column. Once I posted them here and they started duplicating I gave up the endeavor. 

Another thing I'll say is trackman seems to shave about 8% of my distance. These are #s from January. I have notes on scorecards from that whole month that say 158 to back, 6i on back..163 to pin 6i PH, etc

Experimenting with equipment is fine and can be fun but it introduces lots of variables and can be expensive.

The problem with experimenting especially with an inconsistent swing is you don’t know if you are fighting the new shaft and it’s feel or if it’s helping your swing. The fitting fee and the process when done with a good fitter is worth the price for several reasons. They are going to get you in a setup that doesn’t require the golfer to fight the club to hit they s*** they want but allow them to have one that works with their swing. They will explain what’s happening and what they are doing to help. The golfer learns what works for their swing and why and can use that as a baseline to do future experimenting by narrowing down the shafts and clubs to experiment with

You have side action because your swing is coming from outside to in and you are going to hit lots or fades and slices 

You are confusing your total distance on the course with carry distance per trackman, they are two different things. 

12 hours ago, richk9holes said:

My hunch is Trackman doesn't capture my entire shot arc because it goes outside what the thing can capture when I hit a good high fade.

Trackman uses algorithms for several of the output it gives. I’ve used trackman on a range that the balls with driver would go into the trees, it. Still produced accurate measurements of my launch and spin.

12 hours ago, richk9holes said:

Here's the full trackman data on some concise 8i swings I took early Jan. I am hitting my iron a little better now, still very inconsistent.

You have a consistent swing as most people do, the problem of inconsistency is in how you compensate for the swing faults and how good those are repeatable, but things like your takeaway, backswing and downswing movements are going to be very similar from swing to swing but your grip may change or how your rotate arms or set wrists are changing and causing your inconsistencies.

Your money would be best spent on getting lessons to reduce the wide variation from swing to swing.

Every golfer including the pros make compensations in their swing. The better ones are more consistent in repeating them. 

[richk9holes]

Seems like a lot of variables to add to try to change my approach angle after 31 years of resisting various coaching. Lessons would replace my access to trackman in my budget, so I'd be at the whim of others' schedules for my 1 hour a month rather than 2hr self-reflecting. 

I was considering cutting that expense for the indoor place and putting the money towards a twilight full access membership somewhere to save on tee times for my self-teaching. That's the more likely expenditure of $80 per month on golf. 

I will stress I think golf professionals fill an important and valuable role. I just think I am the person they will benefit the least. The average fitter and/or teaching pro doesn't need to mix my swing tendencies and mental wandering into what was otherwise a strong data set in their professional career.