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Deep Thoughts: Steel Shafts


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I went a little lighter and stiffer recently because i am swinging faster, but when I have gone heavier it just feels like a lot of work! 

As long as the flex (not stated, but feel) is to your liking and not too firm or whippy then I see lots of benefits to going lighter.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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9 hours ago, richk9holes said:

My observed loss of 8% yardage is what I'm multiplying. A full trackman captured 6i ×1.08 gets me the expected results I would see on course. As said above, I often note PH on a 6i strike I'm attempting 160-163 on course. Never have I ever in 60 hours touched a 16_ any number with trackman in 60 hours. 

New technology is incomplete, I'm not expecting perfect simulation. I'm also not confused about what hard numbers are in front of me.

This and the 1.09 number are complete estimates of something as intangible as my anecdotal observation. 


based on this, you have no confidence in launch monitors; my next suggestion is that you stop using them.   Or you can  just realize that your results are about 10% off.   

I never said you were confused about you numbers; I was confused by the seemingly random numbers you were putting in your post.

 

9 hours ago, richk9holes said:

And I said confined space as a final point and specifically referencing clubs 43" + that would not be my irons, I am not a gigantoid. 

It's a point about why my Driver avg on the simulator is 215 or so with better length on the course, and pretty much an aside. 

Point wasn’t about how big you are, but how you react in a sim space.   Some people are fine others not.   There are also multiple reports  of people not getting accurate readings on launch monitors.  I personally get pretty accurate results.   
 

9 hours ago, richk9holes said:

And a 6i rolling out 10 yards but an 8i rolling out 18" in the same 10 swing range session means it isn't the firmness of the imaginary fairway. 

Okay, but you haven’t said that before that I have seen.  

Good luck in figuring out what you want to do.

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

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9 hours ago, richk9holes said:

My observed loss of 8% yardage is what I'm multiplying. A full trackman captured 6i ×1.08 gets me the expected results I would see on course. As said above, I often note PH on a 6i strike I'm attempting 160-163 on course. Never have I ever in 60 hours touched a 16_ any number with trackman in 60 hours. 

New technology is incomplete, I'm not expecting perfect simulation. I'm also not confused about what hard numbers are in front of me.

This and the 1.09 number are complete estimates of something as intangible as my anecdotal observation. 

You don’t have carry numbers from on course and total yardage on course can vary based on course conditions and your shot at the time. Trackmans total yardage is based on its algorithm from the other day so comparing total yardage on the trackman vs the course isn’t real helpful, you should be comparing carry vs carry.

You can use whatever numbers you want for estimating but imo they don’t make any sense and aren’t real useful.

What do you mean new technology is incomplete?

The issue you should be focused on which is a fear piece of information that can be tracked for profess is your smash factor, attack angle, face to path and club path.

You are coming from the outside anywhere from ~8-11° that’s a lot. You have a face to path that is anywhere from ~6-11° also a lot. This is going to cause inconsistency in strike, lots of curve on the ball with big left to right slices or right and going further right. Your attack angle is carry from 0-4°.  All causing a poor smash factor or bad strike.

When you fix those the distances will go up and be more consistent.

The question is whether the shaft is hindering your swing or not. That can’t be answered by anyone here and only thru some form of testing shafts and comparing numbers to see if they change or not. 
 

Based on the trackman numbers and without seeing a swing I would say things probably won’t change too much with a heavier shaft or a different profile. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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7 hours ago, TylorJudd said:

I think this thread is getting hijacked a bit here

Yes and no. There are things that have to be considered for shafts and the description on a webpage isn’t enough info to make a decision because the weight of the shaft, how it feels to a each golfer and how it feels in a club determine how it will affect the swing and club delivery. Some people aren’t as sensitive as others are. We all swing the club differently so even two people of same swing speed, handicap, age, etc can have different results from the same head and shaft combo 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I went a little lighter and stiffer recently because i am swinging faster, but when I have gone heavier it just feels like a lot of work! 

As long as the flex (not stated, but feel) is to your liking and not too firm or whippy then I see lots of benefits to going lighter.

Last year I went the opposite way - lighter graphite to heavier steel, both in R flex, and I found that my dispersion tightened up significantly. 

Next step for me is to go back to graphite but in a heavier weight. 

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I went a little lighter and stiffer recently because i am swinging faster, but when I have gone heavier it just feels like a lot of work! 

As long as the flex (not stated, but feel) is to your liking and not too firm or whippy then I see lots of benefits to going lighter.

According to the numbers- I went "lighter"(2g) but "stiffer"(Stiff to X) and got the ball flight I was looking for and the feel fits my quick transition a lot better with better dispersion and accuracy- FWIW. It didn't feel bad when I've gone heavier in the past- just didn't give me what I was trying to achieve even though it seemed like I was swinging "smoother"

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Paradym 10.5*(11.5*) (Hzrdus Gen 4 Silver 60/KBS TD)

Apex UW 17* (Tensei AV Blue 75)

Apex Pro 21 Hybrid 20*/23* (KBS Hybrid)

Paradym 6-PW (Nippon NS Pro Modus 3 Tour 105X)

Jaws Raw Face Chrome 48* (Nippon NS Pro Modus 3 Tour 105X)

Jaws Raw Chrome Full Toe 54*/ 58* (Nippon Pro Modus 115 Wedge)

Jaws Full Toe Black Wedge 64* (DG Tour Issue Spinner 115)

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7 hours ago, TylorJudd said:

I think this thread is getting hijacked a bit here

I think there's a lot of information to process. I'm to blame for introducing about 5 different topics in one thread here.

 

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

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WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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On 3/19/2023 at 8:06 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Why do you hit it high? Knowing why something happens goes a long way.

Adding loft is usually why most amateurs hit the ball high. Shafts can influence that negatively or positively. Depends on how the change in shaft weight and/or profile affects the golfers delivery.

What is your dynamic loft?

where on the face are you making contact?

whats your launch and spin?

These are all things that need to be evaluated and then compared when you switch shafts to see what changed and how it’s affecting results 

This post was AFTER I shared trackman data. What are my launch and spin? About 6" above where you're asking.

I have gotten some helpful feedback, but also some hasty responses of the generic variety that show little reading comprehension.

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

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WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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Cnosil never said i was confused, Rickybobbypr did. 

I'm arguing with 2 people at once and they are getting defensive at the responses intended for one another.

The 6i has a different shaft than the rest of the shafts, for those who missed that.

The club with appropriate apex that releases properly is a mid profile (as per TT).

The clubs I hit too high (yes now we established 99'+ is too high) are the ones with Elevate high profile (as per the same TT)

Maybe I'm seeing what I want, but this is my empirical data. 

As far as not having carry data on course, my Bushnell tour v3 and Phantom 2 are offended. I always know how far I am trying to hit it and I can see where I land.

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

'23 Forum Tester: image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.png Elixir Golf Ball

WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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  • 4 weeks later...

Shaft weight can make a huge difference. I was in 90 g stiff shafts before I got fit. When I did get fit my fitter said my shafts were way too light for my swing speed and tempo (~95 mph chs 6-iron). Ended up with 125 gram PX shafts. I actually swing them slightly slower but with the same distance and better dispersion. So yeah I recommend getting fit for your shafts


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6 hours ago, Sinjin Todd said:

Shaft weight can make a huge difference. I was in 90 g stiff shafts before I got fit. When I did get fit my fitter said my shafts were way too light for my swing speed and tempo (~95 mph chs 6-iron). Ended up with 125 gram PX shafts. I actually swing them slightly slower but with the same distance and better dispersion. So yeah I recommend getting fit for your shafts


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Thanks for the input. I decided to roll the dice and see if I would enjoy a 110g steel shaft better. After investigating buying shafts aftermarket I stumbled upon a set 6-PW on sub70 pre-owned section. They cost $55 each, less than buying Ebay shafts and paying for a head swap. And I still have my Apex irons intact if the experiment fails.

This is what I meant by having a budget that a fitting would be deleterious to the quality of product I could get. It's really not intended to offend or demean the profession of any resident club techs here. If I had more money I would give you some of it.

Anyway I hit the sub70 699s great with KBS 110 R shafts, the extra weight is slowing down my swing to what feels very optimal. No longer noting missed greens on front, if anything the common miss is now over the back because I'm getting yards after carry I was not getting with 100' tall 8 and 9i with the 90g shaft.

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

'23 Forum Tester: image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.png Elixir Golf Ball

WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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