PXG Driver Performance issues?

[Steve S]

Has anyone had issues with their PXG 0311 Gen 5 driver?  I bought one used for a very good price.  Should have known that was a red flag.  It's not counterfeit; checked the serial number with PXG and it looks identical to one a buddy just bought.  The problem is that I've tested it on PRGR, Rapsodo and Foresight(at PGA superstore) launch monitors and never been able to get the smash factor better than 1.36.  I've used foot powder and only count the center strikes.  With my current gamer(Honma Tr20) I regularly hit 1.45-1.48.

I've let others swing it and no one has gotten above 1.35.   Anyone else seen or heard issues like this.  I'm a bit suspicious since ebay sales of used gen 5's are thru the roof.  Like 40 of them since March 15th(it's the morning of the 18th) virtually all of them sold by PXG Express which is in Scottsdale.

Any thoughts, folks? 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

You may have gotten a head that is in the lower end of the CT tolerance. 

[Steve S]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

You may have gotten a head that is in the lower end of the CT tolerance. 

With that bad a number I'd say that if that were true their tolerances suck.  I beginning to believe you might be right and if I hadn't bought it used I might have recourse with PXG.  Afraid I may just be stuck.

[cnosil]

20 minutes ago, Steve S said:

With that bad a number I'd say that if that were true their tolerances suck.  I beginning to believe you might be right and if I hadn't bought it used I might have recourse with PXG.  Afraid I may just be stuck.

I personally doubt that it is tolerances.    PXG Express is PXGs official used club store; similar to callaway preowned, and with the liberal return policy at PXG, they probably do have lots of used equipment that goes on there site frequently.   

If you are hitting the ball solidly and all measured launch conditions seem to be normal'ish except ball speed it might be a cracked or damaged head.  What data are you are seeing on the launch monitor?  I am curious about spin.  

[Steve S]

28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I personally doubt that it is tolerances.    PXG Express is PXGs official used club store; similar to callaway preowned, and with the liberal return policy at PXG, they probably do have lots of used equipment that goes on there site frequently.   

If you are hitting the ball solidly and all measured launch conditions seem to be normal'ish except ball speed it might be a cracked or damaged head.  What data are you are seeing on the launch monitor?  I am curious about spin.  

I doubt it's a damaged head since the sound is right on what my friends sounds like(I haven't had him hit it yet on a monitor).  The spin and launch angle are almost dead on to my Honma.  Typically around 2000-2100 rpm and 14-16 degree launch.  Ball speed is around 125-130mph but that's the same speed I get with my Honma but I swing the PXG almost 5 mph faster.  

[cnosil]

26 minutes ago, Steve S said:

I doubt it's a damaged head since the sound is right on what my friends sounds like(I haven't had him hit it yet on a monitor).  The spin and launch angle are almost dead on to my Honma.  Typically around 2000-2100 rpm and 14-16 degree launch.  Ball speed is around 125-130mph but that's the same speed I get with my Honma but I swing the PXG almost 5 mph faster.  

If you doubt it is damaged then the next possible issue would be the shaft doesn't fit you.   With your spin being on the low side for your swing speed you just aren't getting the best performance. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Maybe the monitors are reading the PXG head differently than the Honma and you are actually swinging them the same speed thus the lower smash factor. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

3 hours ago, Steve S said:

With that bad a number I'd say that if that were true their tolerances suck.  I beginning to believe you might be right and if I hadn't bought it used I might have recourse with PXG.  Afraid I may just be stuck.

I’m not talking PXG’s tolerances. Im talking the USGA legal tolerances. The number is 239 with a +\- of 18. If PXG is right at or below that number and the Honma is at the higher 250ish range you will see a difference. 
 

Maybe we need more info to help. Shaft/length/head weight/Swingweight of both clubs 

[Steve S]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.   1.  Hard to believe that the 3 measurement devices are all reading the PXG head speed too high.  I guess it's possible, but I think unlikely since I think we'd have heard that from others.  2.  Smash factor is a function of ball speed and club head speed.  Shafts typically might affect spin, launch and dispersion but would have a "microscopic" affect on smash factor.  This according to the guys I talked to at PXG and 2 fitters I know.  3.  The tolerance difference of the CT might be the answer.  Especially if the PXG is below the lower limit and the Honma is at the upper. 

I guess the lesson for me is when you buy used ya don't know what you are getting.  If I had bought new I could have complained and gotten a replacement. 

Thanks again, guys.  

 

[cnosil]

22 minutes ago, Steve S said:

.  2.  Smash factor is a function of ball speed and club head speed.  Shafts typically might affect spin, launch and dispersion but would have a "microscopic" affect on smash factor.  This according to the guys I talked to at PXG and 2 fitters I know. 

 

yes, smash factor is a ratio of ball speed to club head speed. and shaft influence feel and how you deliver the club to the ball.  How you deliver the club  influences launch conditions which can impact ball or club speed.   the unloading of the shaft influences the launch conditions.  

You wanted ideas on what if could be;  I have hit the Gen 5 driver and didn't notice any difference from any other club related to smash factor.     If you want to dig deeper,  provide detailed specs on the clubs, show comparative launch monitor data with ball strike locations for a driver that gets 1.45 smash factor and the PXG

[Steve S]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

yes, smash factor is a ratio of ball speed to club head speed. and shaft influence feel and how you deliver the club to the ball.  How you deliver the club  influences launch conditions which can impact ball or club speed.   the unloading of the shaft influences the launch conditions.  

You wanted ideas on what if could be;  I have hit the Gen 5 driver and didn't notice any difference from any other club related to smash factor.     If you want to dig deeper,  provide detailed specs on the clubs, show comparative launch monitor data with ball strike locations for a driver that gets 1.45 smash factor and the PXG

Sorry if I've come off as dismissive of everyone's ideas, not my intention.   I only looked at data where I had dead center strikes for both clubs.  Attack angles, dynamic launches, etc. were all within a degree or 2 of each other.   Shafts are both similar specs. 60 grams, low torque, low spin.  The PXG is a 6.0 Hazardous(Stiff)  The Homna is a Vizard FP-6X which they call X-stiff but on a Golfworks "bend board" measures more towards stiff than X-stiff.

My buddy that just got the same driver(new from PXG) 2 weeks ago has agreed to let me borrow his to test (talked to him at lunchtime) so that should tell me something.

 

[ChitownM2]

Where did you buy this from used?  Was it PXG's ebay store or just some random user?  Just because the serial # matches up to the specs doesn't mean it isn't counterfeit.  When they create counterfeit clubs they use a real one to base it off of with a real serial #.  The difference being there may just be 2000 clubs with that same serial # which you have no way of knowing and PXG doesn't keep track of.  

[cnosil]

49 minutes ago, Steve S said:

Sorry if I've come off as dismissive of everyone's ideas, not my intention.   I only looked at data where I had dead center strikes for both clubs.  Attack angles, dynamic launches, etc. were all within a degree or 2 of each other.   Shafts are both similar specs. 60 grams, low torque, low spin.  The PXG is a 6.0 Hazardous(Stiff)  The Homna is a Vizard FP-6X which they call X-stiff but on a Golfworks "bend board" measures more towards stiff than X-stiff.

My buddy that just got the same driver(new from PXG) 2 weeks ago has agreed to let me borrow his to test (talked to him at lunchtime) so that should tell me something.

 

If all data is roughly the same launch, spin, AoA, face angle at impact, side spin, dynamic loft, etc.  then I can only go back to the head is damaged or defective.  Pretty sure the HZRDOUS isn't a stock PXG shaft and I don't have a profile comparison between the two shafts which would be a better evaluation than brand advertised stiffness, torque, launch,  and spin     I'm sure you would be doing this but make sure to use the shaft from your buddies driver in both heads that way you make sure you isolate the head.  

[Steve S]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

If all data is roughly the same launch, spin, AoA, face angle at impact, side spin, dynamic loft, etc.  then I can only go back to the head is damaged or defective.  Pretty sure the HZRDOUS isn't a stock PXG shaft and I don't have a profile comparison between the two shafts which would be a better evaluation than brand advertised stiffness, torque, launch,  and spin     I'm sure you would be doing this but make sure to use the shaft from your buddies driver in both heads that way you make sure you isolate the head.  

The HZRDOUS Black 6.0 is a standard selection for the Gen 5 for stiff shafts.  Specs are 60 grams, 3.5 Torque, Stiff, Low Spin according to the markings on the shaft.

We'll probably try both shafts with both heads, since he'll want to hit mine, also.  Forgot to ask what shaft he has.

[Steve S]

2 hours ago, ChitownM2 said:

Where did you buy this from used?  Was it PXG's ebay store or just some random user?  Just because the serial # matches up to the specs doesn't mean it isn't counterfeit.  When they create counterfeit clubs they use a real one to base it off of with a real serial #.  The difference being there may just be 2000 clubs with that same serial # which you have no way of knowing and PXG doesn't keep track of.  

Bought it from a pro shop that got it on trade in from a regular customer.  Not sure where he got it.  If it is a fake, it's extremely well done.  Will see when I compare it to my buddy's driver.

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, Steve S said:

The HZRDOUS Black 6.0 is a standard selection for the Gen 5 for stiff shafts.  Specs are 60 grams, 3.5 Torque, Stiff, Low Spin according to the markings on the shaft.

 

Forgot to switch to S on their configuration screen .      the markings on the shafts are what the OEM considers them to be which is only relative to what they compared it to;  no standardization in the industry.    EI Profiles would be better to do comparisons.   Will be interesting to hear how the two drivers compare. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, cnosil said:

yes, smash factor is a ratio of ball speed to club head speed. and shaft influence feel and how you deliver the club to the ball.  How you deliver the club  influences launch conditions which can impact ball or club speed.   the unloading of the shaft influences the launch conditions.  

You wanted ideas on what if could be;  I have hit the Gen 5 driver and didn't notice any difference from any other club related to smash factor.     If you want to dig deeper,  provide detailed specs on the clubs, show comparative launch monitor data with ball strike locations for a driver that gets 1.45 smash factor and the PXG

This 

3 hours ago, Steve S said:

Sorry if I've come off as dismissive of everyone's ideas, not my intention.   I only looked at data where I had dead center strikes for both clubs.  Attack angles, dynamic launches, etc. were all within a degree or 2 of each other.   Shafts are both similar specs. 60 grams, low torque, low spin.  The PXG is a 6.0 Hazardous(Stiff)  The Homna is a Vizard FP-6X which they call X-stiff but on a Golfworks "bend board" measures more towards stiff than X-stiff.

My buddy that just got the same driver(new from PXG) 2 weeks ago has agreed to let me borrow his to test (talked to him at lunchtime) so that should tell me something.

 

Which hzrdus shaft?

Just because they are low torque and low spin means almost nothing. You don’t know if the two brands measure torque with the same machine and the same way .just like shaft flex there is no standard for torque. Low spin is just a description for shaft design and where the stiffness is in the shaft. They ei profile of these shafts are more than likely different and this can have influence  as cnosil mentioned in his post. While they could be centered strikes what is the face angle, swing path and path to face relationship between the two setups?

[Larryd3]

If you have a PXG fitting location nearby, take your driver there and compare it to one of these with the same shaft and see if there's a big difference.  Also maybe I missed it but how does it play on the course?  overall distance compared to your other driver, ball flight, etc.   

[GaDawg]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:07 AM, Steve S said:

 

 

Edited March 19 by GaDawg
Thought you purchased from e-bay, deleted post