Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[vandyland]

Well, time to put this weekend's accomplishments behind me and keep plowing ahead. This week marks week 4 in my 10 week commitment to improving my swing in a run up to my Monte Clinic. In my opinion here's what I am doing well:

- Decent wrist set and position at the top
- Decent hip movement 
- Doing well to "throw it away from me" at the top and not handle drag most of the time (and I can really feel it when I start handle dragging)
- Pressure shift is coming along nicely

Things to work on:

- Still opening up a bit early on the downswing
- Not always getting the Cast B started early enough
- Setup can get a little out of whack from time to time

Homework for me - Work back through the drills again. Leading up to this tournament I was trying to do less technical thinking but now that it is behind it is back to the lab. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Well, time to put this weekend's accomplishments behind me and keep plowing ahead. This week marks week 4 in my 10 week commitment to improving my swing in a run up to my Monte Clinic. In my opinion here's what I am doing well:

- Decent wrist set and position at the top
- Decent hip movement 
- Doing well to "throw it away from me" at the top and not handle drag most of the time (and I can really feel it when I start handle dragging)
- Pressure shift is coming along nicely

Things to work on:

- Still opening up a bit early on the downswing
- Not always getting the Cast B started early enough
- Setup can get a little out of whack from time to time

Homework for me - Work back through the drills again. Leading up to this tournament I was trying to do less technical thinking but now that it is behind it is back to the lab. 

One thing to remember with cast b is that you should only be working on it if it’s not happening naturally as a result of what’s happening from cast a 

[vandyland]

Hit 70 balls at the range today and found that I having success really exaggerating (for me) the feeling of casting the club away from me to start. Monte talks about this but I am starting to feel it more and more. It is quite strange to feel as though the golf club's first move is away from the ball rather than towards it but it was key for me today and going forward. My feels today, starting with the most important were:

- In the downswing, first move of club is away and behind me, dumping all my angles as soon as possible and feeling ZERO handle drag as a result
- Delaying the turn in the downswing
- Transitional knee flex/pressure shift starts before backswing totally completes

When I drag the handle and/or open up too fast in the downswing the ball flight comes down immediately and the divot pattern starts trending left. Currently, I don't feel like I can over do the Cast A and delayed turn in the downswing. An extreme cast A and delayed turn just gives me more of a push draw. Really loving the feeling right now and my toe misses were down dramatically today. 

[vandyland]

Hit wedges today since they sucked a bit during the tournament. Mostly block practice at a single target from a single location so I was getting grooved a bit. Hit 45 balls each at 35 yd, 60 yd and 90 yd targets. 60 yds had by far the best lateral and vertical dispersion (that is just a good number for me). 35 yd obviously had good lateral dispersion as well. 90 yd was overall fine but a little lacking in distance control. Hit a few 100 and a few 80ish. Feeling a mini version of the cast A in these swings as well which helps with low point control. Great session overall!

[vandyland]

Well, upgraded my practice area at home this week! We now have turf installed and removed a bunch of overgrown, invasive bushes. So now I can hit full swing shots in my courtyard into my net. Better for filming and I can hit pitch shots off the turf or off my mat to different locations in the courtyard. The turf is awesome and my kids love it and now are outside on it as much as possible. 

I hit for an hour last night, under the lights, in my new practice area with my old Ping Eye 2 BeCu irons (alternating between 6 iron and 8 iron) and they felt great. I don't want to say anything "clicked" but man the swing feels more and more "natural" by the day. My technical thoughts are down to like 1-2 from 7-8 a few weeks ago. I will do a follow up lesson with Monte at the end of this month which will probably bring me back down to earth if my next few rounds of golf don't do that first. Eyeing getting out there on Saturday at a pretty stout golf course so I am bracing myself and trying to manage expectations. Just really in love with the downswing feeling these days. 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Only was able to play 9 holes but shot 37 and played my first few holes very well at -2 through 4 but faltered down the stretch.

 

[vandyland]

Was hitting balls last night and the casting feeling is still evolving. I like to revisit the No Turn Cast videos every few weeks because more and more of what Monte is saying is making sense. I have a better understanding of what he is talking about when he says the shaft goes "up, away and behind" from the top of the downswing. It really is the complete opposite of what I "learned" reading all these golf tips about lag, compression, trapping etc. It feels so counterintuitive still but also when I slow down to 50% I can still FLUSH the ball which is wild. 

The miss has moved away from the toe of the club (finally) and now I am just missing thin on bad strikes. This is down to me not getting enough flex or re-centering in transition because I am devoting so much attention and interest to Cast A. I doesn't really impact me nearly as much with driver since that is teed up but mid irons and wedges more so. I may be wrong but I think that will be a very solvable problem as that knee flex and pressure shift forward is way more natural and common than trying to unlearn handle dragging. So I am still prioritizing refining my Cast A feeling even when I hit a thin shot on the course it goes dead straight and most (90-95%) of the distance...it just comes out low and feels terrible at impact. Very excited about Monte's clinic next month. 

[vandyland]

My new practice club:

I have had this set for a while and I like to pull it out because the feedback is very precise. Using it primarily as my strike location is improving. It also has a fairly sharp leading edge so it is easier to tell if I get too steep. Same swing weight as my other 7 iron which is a bonus.

[vandyland]

Played pretty well yesterday (shot 73) and didnt have a ton of swing thoughts. One thing I noticed (and have noticed) is that many of my shots start straight and tail off left. I *think* this is because Monte has scared me into not dipping my right shoulder at all in the downswing. But I think I misunderstood a bit. He doesn’t want people dipping their trail shoulder as a way of shallowing the club, but he doesn’t explicitly say “no right side bend.” I have been coming into the ball fairly level with my shoulders so my ball flight is lower and the ball never starts right of target as a result. I think I am due for some range experimentation with a *little* right side bend coming into impact. See below some players all having a slightly different way of getting their right side bend at impact.

 

 

even Monte himself

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 hours ago, vandyland said:

Played pretty well yesterday (shot 73) and didnt have a ton of swing thoughts. One thing I noticed (and have noticed) is that many of my shots start straight and tail off left. I *think* this is because Monte has scared me into not dipping my right shoulder at all in the downswing. But I think I misunderstood a bit. He doesn’t want people dipping their trail shoulder as a way of shallowing the club, but he doesn’t explicitly say “no right side bend.” I have been coming into the ball fairly level with my shoulders so my ball flight is lower and the ball never starts right of target as a result. I think I am due for some range experimentation with a *little* right side bend coming into impact. See below some players all having a slightly different way of getting their right side bend at impact.

 

 

even Monte himself

 

Correct there is a need for right side bend it left side for the left handed golfer.

It comes fairly early on the transition/downswing

[vandyland]

Late night swing thought, I have a habit of setting my wrists late which makes my swing longer AND makes it harder to time up my cast A. So focus is on early part of downswing and getting set by left arm parallel at the latest. 

[vandyland]

Haven't been able to practice the last two nights (work dinners) so hopefully I can get some range time today at lunch. I am cleared to play this weekend on saturday morning (if I can only find a tee time...) and I am wondering if I want to have fun or push myself. The courses that I will play have tee boxes at 5,400 yds / 6,000 yds and 6,400 yds. Since I am still in the learning phase I can comfortably toss 6,400 yds out of consideration but am wondering if I would prefer to just play at 5,400 yds and have fun. Will hit way more wedges and less full shots but I think that is ok. Anyway, just excited to be able to go out super early this weekend and try to scrape it around a bit. 

[vandyland]

Ended up playing at 5,600 yds and had a great time. Hit 8/9 greens on the front and eagled the par 5 3rd hole going driver + 8 iron into the 430 yd par 5 (felt like a tour player!). Lost it a little on the back but overall the swing felt good and golf is fun. My monte clinic got pushed back to july so I have more time to continue to hone my swing in advance of working with him. Very encouraged!

[vandyland]

Hitting a bit of a snag this week as I may have a hernia (getting an ultrasound today). That may sideline me for a while depending on severity, hopefully it is just a pull and not a tear and I can be back on my practice schedule again. 

[cksurfdude]

19 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Hitting a bit of a snag this week as I may have a hernia (getting an ultrasound today). That may sideline me for a while depending on severity, hopefully it is just a pull and not a tear and I can be back on my practice schedule again. 

Ugh bad break man... Rest and heal! You can practice the drills in v-e-r-y s-l-o-o-o-w motion.

[cksurfdude]

On 5/28/2023 at 10:52 PM, vandyland said:

My monte clinic got pushed back to july so I have more time to continue to hone my swing in advance of working with him.

Is that July 8th in NJ??? I procrastinated signing up for the original June date and now I'm on the wait list.....

[Kenny B]

6 hours ago, vandyland said:

Hitting a bit of a snag this week as I may have a hernia (getting an ultrasound today). That may sideline me for a while depending on severity, hopefully it is just a pull and not a tear and I can be back on my practice schedule again. 

 

5 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Ugh bad break man... Rest and heal! You can practice the drills in v-e-r-y s-l-o-o-o-w motion.

Here’s a link to a Monte Instagram post on how to practice better sequencing.  Very difficult to swing this slow, but worth it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CcqA2scjdPM/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 hours ago, Kenny B said:

 

Here’s a link to a Monte Instagram post on how to practice better sequencing.  Very difficult to swing this slow, but worth it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CcqA2scjdPM/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

Slow motion swings are hard. If you can’t do it slow you won’t be able to do it fast and if you can’t do it with a 1/2 or 3/4 swing you won’t be able to do it with a full swing. 

[vandyland]

12 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Is that July 8th in NJ??? I procrastinated signing up for the original June date and now I'm on the wait list.....

I am going to the Chicago clinic which got moved to mid July from June since monte qualified for the Sr. US open. I am in Nashville but it was the cheapest flight and Atlanta was not a good time for me.

Edited May 31, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

No hernia so back in action soon I hope.

[vandyland]

Hit balls on the range at lunch and noticed I was getting a bit steep in my backswing so thinking about "holding the tray" a bit more at the top of my backswing which seemed to produce better results. No other major changes and was swinging at about 70% tempo since I am still recovering. I am going to revisit my initial post that started this thread and see how I am doing...

1. Identification of "faults" [needs improvement] - Planning on having a follow up lesson with Monte after I heal, if he has time during his prep for the US Open. I dangerously self diagnosed a few things, most notably that I was setting my wrists too late which was causing me to downcock and have my swing overrun. I think that is correct and I have been hitting it better since I determined that. Now just trying to avoid a steep backswing from the early wrist set. 

2. Practicing motor patterns [satisfactory] - I think I have done well here because of the net. Ballflight is almost non-existent so it is motor pattern first and Feel of contact second. 

3. Monitoring [needs improvement] - I have done much video the last week. Since I don't have a trained eye I don't see the need at the moment to video many sessions. After my next lesson with Monte I should know what to look for again. 

4. Staying Committed [very satisfactory]- This is going well. I still feel this is the way and I hit balls most every day outside of the 4 days where I thought I had a hernia. 

5. Why am I doing this [incomplete] - No change. I want a simpler swing with core fundamentals I understand and can replicate. I am not there yet but this is the way. 

6. What is success? [incomplete] Success is commitment and improvement, even if marginal. There is no goal score or handicap. It is about hitting good shots more often and deliberately as a result of dedicated practice and a better understanding of swing mechanics. 

[vandyland]

Working on really slow swings like Monte posted on his instagram. I don’t have the pronounced cast showing up like he does but I see how it benefits sequencing. If you can’t do it slow, how can you do it fast? I still can’t quite make it look “natural” but it is a good patience exercise.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Played twice over the weekend and, not to jinx anything, but I am flushing it for me. What has been working well for me is the following:

(1) Early wrist set - this is the single most important thing for me. Low and slow, one piece takeaway was SO bad for my game. It made me not set my wrists until the top of my swing which threw off all my downswing timing and cast A. Now I am wrist set by the time I get to left arm parallel with a flat left wrist. From there I just turn a little to the top and it is fairly easy to Cast A into the ball.

(2) Flat left wrist/handle pointing at the ball - I can get a little steep in my backswing and that comes from not getting the handle pointing at the ball during my backswing. The other fault is, in trying to get the handle to point correctly, I roll the forearms too much and open up the clubface. So this is a move where I need to flatten the shaft out a bit in the backswing but still keep a flat left wrist (square to closed clubface at the top). Very important for me, especially with wedges which is where I get steep most often.

(3) Slow swings to warmup and get a great feel for sequencing - as mentioned above, if I can't do it at 50% how can I possibly do it at 100%? So now when I am on the range, at least 25% of my swings are 50%. 

Also, I got a 21* utility iron again and, it may be the honeymoon period, but I am FLUSHING it. That is usually an indication that my swing is in a good place. If I can center a 21* Callaway Apex UT (excellent utility iron from 2014) then I am doing something right. The feeling from a perfectly struck utility iron is....one of my favorites. Sorry for the brief brag session. I will probably curse myself as I usually have a few weeks where the utility iron works and then I get overconfident and have to shelve it again. 

Hit balls in the net yesterday (75 shots) and worked mainly with my 6 iron. I would say 85% felt perfect and 10% felt just okay and there was 4-5% that were a bit jarring. That is pretty good for a 6 iron. The grind continues. 

[vandyland]

Got on Trackman today just to see where I was at and I am progressing (I think) in terms of gradually building up speed without losing control. At the start I was taking the club back a little too much outside my hands which was causing me to be too much out to in. I am still *slightly* out to in by the meat of the session but much better. I worked my way up to driver and was pleased with what I saw (I am not the most accurate driver of the golf ball so 50 yds lateral dispersion is decent for me):

So the numbers above are probably a 3-4 mph clubhead speed increase over my last session several months ago. Average ball speed in the 160s is new for me as well. Everything else is in pretty good shape, especially the club path being so neutral. I almost touched 115 mph clubhead speed which is mindblowing. I didn't really feel like I was swinging out of my shoes and these are all 10 of my drivers that I hit at the end of the session, didn't throw out any shots. See dispersion below (trackman wasn't able to email reports today so I had to take a photo with my phone, sorry for the low quality):

 

[vandyland]

Last night hit about 100 balls going only as high as left arm parallel and working on clean contact through that ball. It really trained me to stop getting lost on all this top of the swing and transition nonsense and just slow down and try to hit 100 yd 7 irons. I don't subscribe to a lot of what "Be Better Golf" puts out there but I did like his "protocol" which was to focus time on 1/2 swings and slowing down your swing to ensure proper sequencing and contact. Also, that 1 hour sessions a few times a week might not be as useful as consistent 15-20 minute practice sessions every day (or close to every day). So I am trying to see how many days in a row I can put together 20 minute practice sessions with intense, focused practice. So far I am at two days. 

[cksurfdude]

3 hours ago, vandyland said:

focus time on 1/2 swings and slowing down your swing to ensure proper sequencing and contact.

Definitely. Monte advocates that, too; in addition to taking your 150 yd club and hitting to a 100 yd target .. not so easy at first!

[Goober]

Agree with what Monte says. If you can’t do a swing change hitting a 7 iron 50-100 yards. Than how in the heck can you do it hitting a 7 iron 150

[Goober]

after my 3rd trip to the tour striker academy in Gilbert. I now have 2 1/2 swing thoughts that i keep as a mantra.  They are resist (which means a wide backswing with turn). And oddly i was told think right arm wide which widens me even more than the left arm ever did. Secondly is relax on way down (which is a feeling of taking my hand set at top of backswing to hip high) a feeling of slow and relxed versus hit hard from the top. And lastly is rotate as hard as i can with a feeling of back elbow staying on right hip pocket. Hitting with body turn verus my hands.  When i relax on the way down my body is somewhat naturally opening and getting on to the lead side on its own. So the last thought of rotate is almost gone now and happening on its own. Just have to stick to these thoughts no matter if i have a good hitting day or not. The more reps of trusting this is the true secret. Its been good and bad as of now. But the relaxing or slow motion feel from top of transtion to hip high has been a real game changer for me.

[vandyland]

Had a great weekend of golf and I chalk most of that up to the half swing practice. Shot 76/75 (not that anyone cares what I shot) at two fairly tough courses and drove the ball extremely well. I was CRUISING on my second round and turned in 34 (-2) but the heavens opened up and we played the last 4 holes in a torrential downpour (excuses, excuses) and I came in at 41. The benefit was, before it started raining, I had several drives over 320 yds (total not carry LOL) and was averaging 285-290 totals both days. If I had to rate the areas of my game this weekend vs where they were a few months ago it would go like this:

Driving Now/3 Months Ago: A / C+
Irons Now/3 Months Ago: A- / B
Wedges Now/3 Months Ago: B / B-
Putting Now/3 Months Ago: C+/ B

So I can tell where my practice has been concentrated. I actually don't "practice" hitting drivers but I think the overall swing change to casting the club instead of pulling/yanking on the handle has shallowed me out a TON and that bleeds into the driver. My long irons are now a weapon whereas they used to be a liability. My wedges are still a little steep and I have completely neglected my putting but that is just going to be how it is for a while. I am so into grooving my full swing that I am not bothered about putting below average at the moment (eventually it will bother me). 

I now see a lot of the faults I used to have and still fight to keep out of my swing in many other amateurs' swings. I play as a single almost 100% of the time so I play with a lot of other golfers. I don't offer advice (obviously!) but I think out of the last 9 golfers I have played with, all of them were very steep into the ball and seemed to still be creating "lag" well into the middle of the downswing. Hard to play like that but I would never instruct a stranger (or anyone really) on how to try to fix that. It is so personal to your feels and way of learning. Also, I will never "figure it out" or "have it" so I just need to focus on my game like I have been. I had one gentleman ask me how I hit a draw and I told him, "I spent 6 months unlearning swing faults with an instructor" and he was like "Oh I thought it would just be a tip or something" and I said "unfortunately tips never worked for me beyond a few holes." 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, one of the highlights of the weekend was the range session before my first round. I was just pure-ing little 120 yd 7 irons with a 5 yd draw on repeat. I was automatic with my NTC backswing to 7 o'clock and was feeling the first move of the club AWAY and behind me and coming into the ball very well. I will sound like I am bragging but a guy and his son stopped behind me while I was hitting balls (I didn't notice them at first) and I guess they watched me hit 5-6 balls and the dad came up to me and told me my tempo and ball flight were amazing. I didn't really know what to say so I made some self-deprecating comment but it felt very validating. 

[vandyland]

Back at it last night and this morning hitting 1/2 shots. I find I spend more time watching the No Turn Cast section on the backswing than the cast A and B parts, currently. For me it is all backswing at the moment. I was taking it to outside and wasn't getting set "inside" far enough as a result. It is funny because Monte says in the No Turn Cast "you can skip this part if you have a good backswing" and I, of course, assumed I could skip it in the early days of watching NTC because I was in such a hurry to work on Cast A. Can't hurry the process and CAN'T SKIP THE FUNDAMENTALS. I have been working on NTC since July/August of last year so coming up on a year and less than a month before I go to Chicago! Anyway, been doing 15-20 minutes of 1/2 swings like this morning and night currently. Sometimes I will do it for 15 minutes then go inside and do a few chores and then come back out and do it again. It is funny how my body just wants to keep reverting back to my old way of doing things, good to have this daily maintenance in there to *hopefully* keep myself in check. Still floating after my two great rounds this past weekend but can't get over confident now!

EDIT: I noticed in watching my swings back that now I am whipping the club inside quite a bit and I seem to be "under plane" in the backswing. It is interesting that I am able to hit the ball really well from this position but I must say it looks TERRIBLE when I freeze it right at the start of the transition. (1) My hands are well outside of my trail shoulder (2) They are low as hell and (3) it just looks like a weak position. Oh well. Back to the backswing videos. 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by vandyland