Shot Scope X5 - GPS watch with club sensors

[MsWalkrOfSky]

Note: Any edits will be added in Georgia, a different font, with corrections instead being bolded. I will also highlight them this lovely blue color.

 

Note: This review is now somewhat out of date. There have been significant software changes that have improved the user experience. I'll hopefully enough course time and general time to update this review to get it current with the software. I'll likely have to rewrite entire sections for increased clarity on the changes; I'll bump the post when I get it up to date. For now, as it is not updated yet, I'll refrain from bumping.

About the Golfer

I’ve been playing golf seriously for about two years. The first year was pretty slow, but we started lessons about midway through the year and that ramped up our play a lot. Before that, I grew up playing with my grandpa and other family randomly in the summer for fun, never really trying to get better. I went to a golf camp when I was young, but that was the extent of my official instruction. 

I’m sitting at around a 27 handicap at the moment. My handicap calculation is a bit off, as it’s a mix of slope and rating for women and men, as a lot of the courses don’t have any tees rated for women besides the most forward ones. I’m considering going for an official one sometime this year, as I do want to start competing once I feel ready, as I’m a competitor at heart and have a long sports background.

As for what I do besides golf, I’m a competitively oriented gamer, business systems analyst by day, pc builder, DnD loving (though **** WoTC, Pinkertons, really???) all around nerd. Hell, the nerd part is one of the biggest reasons I wanted the X5, I cannot wait to dig into my golf stats and run some analysis myself!

Why the Shot Scope X5?

I have a terrible memory. So bad that I considered getting a clicker when I first started playing again, as I could barely keep my score on a hole. Because of this, I am suspicious about all my beliefs about my game, from my average distances to where I actually need to improve. Looking into the options, I preferred a system that didn’t have a monthly fee, would automatically track it for me, and had decent stats. Shot Scope seemed like the best option that fit these criteria. I was going to get a V3, but the sexiness of the new shiny X5 drew me in and I pulled the trigger!

 

Unboxing and Setup

And boy is it gorgeous! I absolutely love the look and feel of this watch. The strap is high quality, with a lot of flexibility built in. I’ve not felt like it was a weak strap at any point. The watch face itself looks beautiful. I did have some strange plastic stuck in the side as seen in the second picture above, but I just kept digging at it with a finger nail and eventually got it all out.

The initial pairing process was relatively smooth. It had a few firmware updates, and it was good to go. I then went ahead and added all the local courses, as well as a couple courses that I plan to play soon. The app said they were all already mapped, and I was excited for my first round.

I have a pretty old Fitbit Blaze as my daily driver watch, which I’m actually continuing to wear for now. I like its sleep info and the fact that it tracks my exercises, otherwise I’d wear the X5 all the time. Any comments I make about touch screen experience and general feel are compared to the Fitbit Blaze.

 

First Experience on the Course

I had watched a video when I ordered the X5 on how to set up at the course. Considering it took most of the month to get to me, I really should have refreshed my memory before getting out on the course. It was a gorgeous evening, and I headed out to the local executive course with my partner. I figured it would be a good starting point, as the course is shorter than average and most people don’t expect a fast round. I spent about 2 minutes on the first tee futzing around with it to get the round started, which I consider relatively quick for not remembering how to do it at all. It wasn’t until I got to the first green that I remembered something about a manual putting mode. I looked it up and I would have had to set that up before the round. I really had no clue how the non-manual mode worked and was quite confused. As I walked off the green, it prompted me for the pin position with a nice little vibration. I went back and grabbed it, looked down, was confused why it had the wrong score, entered the right score, and went on. Here’s where I ran into the first feature I wish the shot scope had. It defaults to assuming you have two putts on each hole. It then assumes you make par on every hole. I just told you how many putts I had, and you’ve been tracking the clubs I’ve used. Why would it not default to the score that it thinks I got? I found the decision not to do this incredibly strange, but perhaps it has to do with the way the watch tracks data.

I didn’t really use the distance to hazards function on this round, but did try it in my future rounds. It was helpful in some places, but I occasionally pull out my phone to find a line and distance for doglegs with water.

The rest of the round was relatively smooth. I know that course like the back of my hand, and having the distances right on my wrist was a major convenience. I compared the distances to 18 birdies on my phone for the first few holes, and they both tended to match. I was unsure how penalties would be handled, but remembered that editing was required after the round, rather than during. I had some misplaced confidence regarding my ability to do that…

Editing my first round

After spending a few minutes trying to figure out how to end my round, I started out trying to edit my shots on my phone on the way home. I found the app incredibly unresponsive. Every time I tried to move shots around, edit shots, etc, nothing I did seem to work quite right. I became very frustrated, and bullheadedly kept going on the drive home (I wasn’t driving). When I got home, I hopped on my computer and went digging for a video. Shout out to Andy’s Golf Blog (insert link here to youtube channel) for having my back with this 30 minute detailed breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9-AzPTVCDA Having experimented a bit more with the app since, you unintuitively cannot drag your shots around. This really threw me off and frustrated me, because I initially thought I had dragged one and it was just being as unresponsive as the watch. I still prefer the desktop, especially when I have to insert extra shots. You also cannot change where a penalty shot went after adding it; if you hit your drive into the woods on the right, I haven't found a way to drag that over to the woods except on desktop.

After switching to the desktop application, the experience became significantly smoother. I would definitely not say that it was intuitive to navigate; the video definitely helped me sort out the occasionally strange UI design choices. The video also said that the experience on the mobile version of the dashboard is not the recommended one at this time and to avoid using it, which I wholeheartedly agree with. The dashboard was much smoother than the mobile app, and it was a lot easier to place the shots exactly where they needed to go. The course I played did not have any tees built into the app already, so I added the tees and edited the pars for each hole, as many of them were incorrect. This was mildly tedious, but this executive course had just changed ownership, and it is definitely one of the smaller courses around here, so I was hopeful that other courses would have the tees pre-built. The course isn’t rated, so I didn’t bother with a stroke index on each hole. I added a few penalties, corrected a club that was incorrectly identified, added a missing shot or two, added the positional tag to a punch shot or two to prevent them messing up my stats, and finished up my first edit. Since this edit, it's worth noting that I have now learned in the comments what the positional shot is for. It's for any shot that you are not trying to hit the green. So on par 5s, tag every lay up with positional, tag your 3 off the tee with positional, etc. First tee shots by default are positional.

 

I excitedly went to dig into my stats! I had heard you could compare shots gained and lost to different handicaps and was really looking forward to this! I was quite sad to find out that 25 was the highest the handicap went for comparison; this means that I would struggle to recommend this to someone that is higher handicap. It’s not that the data isn’t useful anymore, it just is really rough to see almost all strokes lost and no strokes gained anywhere on your stats. For my first round, you can see my results compared to a 25 HDCP below:

It marked my approaches as my biggest problem area for this round. What I found strange was the marking of the number of shots for each of these areas. It said I had 38 putts, when I clearly only had 19? 4 tee shots when I had only 2 on the par 4s? Apparently, for 9 holes it doubles your number of shots to assume 18 played for its calculations. I wish it mentioned that somewhere, but I realized it quickly enough that it wasn’t a problem, just a head scratcher. My approach shots strokes gained was atrocious compared to what I expected, but once I found what they defined as an approach shot it made more sense. “Approach shot: Any shot that is taken from outwith of 50 yards to the pin and is not the tee shot. Par 3 tee shots are also considered approach shots in your stats.” Since I was playing mostly Par 3s and had a couple very bad shots off the tee, this stat began to make more sense to me. I also don’t know how accurate the gained vs lost really is here, as I don’t have a slope and rating for the course to calculate the course handicap.

 

Here are the stats on my first 18 hole round, still not using manual putting mode:

This is actually pretty close to my expectations from my game. I'm a long driver off the tee, and my chips tend to be really good. My putting is godawful, so this makes sense, though I actually was really happy with my putting in general in this round.

 

Editing in general after four rounds

Editing has many places where the experience could be improved. Right now, you cannot change the number for a shot. If you need to add a shot, you select the club, add a shot, then click on the map where you want it to go. It then makes an assumption of what shot number it is based on where on the map it is. This can be quite off at times, with no good way to fix it. I had a bunker that took me two attempts to get out of. It only detected the first attempt, and every time I tried to add the shot, it assumed that I putt back into the bunker. I ended up having to drag around different shots to put things in the correct order and change the clubs all around. Having an option to just change the order of the shots would greatly improve that part of the experience.

I did sort out editing on my phone for my fourth round; I had a fundamental misunderstanding that you would be able to drag the location of shots around. You can only adjust them using the directional arrows when you select a shot. Still, I think desktop is significantly easier. 

You remember my misplaced confidence on my ability to edit? Well, I really, really struggled to edit without taking notes. One of the biggest reasons I struggled is that at the end of each hole, it asks how many putts you had and what your score was. When I go into the dashboard, all the scores are equal to the number of hits detected plus putts inputted. It is extremely irritating to keep track of the score all round, but not actually have a viable score at the end of the round. The number shown on the scoring screen at the end of the round, as confirmed by Shot Scope’s documentation, is the number of swings detected plus putts. So at no point is the score displayed for you other than how over par you are, and once you synchronize the round, it is no longer on the watch. This makes knowing what your score was and correctly editing a full round close to impossible for me without basically keeping score and taking notes on penalties and hits that were very close together, like my sand shot from earlier. I was really hoping to keep to using mostly one device, especially on courses that I know. At the moment, the Shot Scope X5 just does not perform to the level needed to be the only recording device I use for my round, even on my most played courses. For my fourth round, I basically went back to 18 birdies for my score recording in addition to the occasional notes; this worked much better for me.

Other than these gripes, editing has gotten smoother to do with practice. I did my 18 hole round relatively quickly on the way home, with only one hole having a heads scratcher (it didn't detect a chip, and I couldn't remember if I went off the back, front, or side of the green, so I put it on the side. I feel like the editing interface has a lot of room to improve, but it does it job at the moment.

 

Assorted issues I’ve run into 

On starting my third round, I noticed it wasn’t tracking my clubs. For some reason, even though I believed I had set it up the same way I had the previous times, I had somehow gotten score keeping and gps, but not club tracking. After the first hole, I ended the round and restarted the round. It worked that time. I was able to go in after the round and add the first hole back in, estimating where my shots went based on the notes I took when I realized what had happened.

My fourth round it took forever and a couple resets to get the gps to connect and the course to load. Luckily, it was already backed up before we got there, so we were waiting anyway.

The touch screen has been incredibly unresponsive to a disappointing level. Doing anything but tapping on it is always an exercise in frustration and patience, with swipe after swipe resulting in mistaken taps or non-detection. It takes me multiple attempts to unlock it out on the course most of the time. It has led me to not use the hazard distances as often as I should. I’m probably going to switch fully to using the dials as much as possible. See the video at the bottom of this section.

Shot detection when you don’t do a practice swing is iffy for chips and shorter shots in general. It struggles to detect bunker shots at all, probably due to the lack of a practice swing. It also occasionally just misses clubs completely that you did a full shot for, so I have no clue what’s happening there.

I had an instance where the watch refused to connect to my phone in any way after a round, requiring a restart of the device.

When I played a 9 hole course for 18, it did do a good job of combining the 9s into a full 18 round. However, it for some reason switched the shots on hole 1 and hole 10. I then had to tediously transcribe all the shots for each of those holes to try to get them back.

At the end of the video, not shown is the fact that the watch locked up entirely, resulting in the last 2 holes being put on a different round. I then had to manually transcribe each shot to the actual round. Really, really wish they had a copy and paste ability for holes.

 

Positives

I’ve discussed a lot of the negatives of this product. Mainly because the issues I ran into I wasn't really expecting, as I hadn’t really seen many people talk in detail about them.

The lack of a subscription fee – this is a huge plus to me. Software will update and change over time still, but I’ve spent the money I need to spend on this product.

Accurately gauging distances – the GPS has functioned basically perfectly for me. I never felt like the range was off, and it matched with the markers on the course whenever I checked.

Ease of use on the course – once I got going, using the device on the course was relatively simple. I’m going to enable manual putting for future rounds, as I noticed automatic putt tracking is not very accurate. This may change the ease of use, but for now, it's really simple.

Actually getting the data – I would heavily struggle to capture every shot without a device like this; having to take notes on the complicated times is within my bailiwick and not having to manually measure every shot and input the club each time is a massive boon. I would not gain this data without a product like this one. In combination with taking a note or two any hole where something weird happens, I feel like all the data I get is accurate enough to be useful.

Battery life – the battery life has been fantastic so far. I've had no issues here other than not finding a quick and easy way to check remaining battery; plugging it in is the only way I've found so far.

Sensors – the sensors went on the club easily and fit very snuggly. They fade into the background and I already don't notice them at all.

Display quality – the brightness and crispness of the display is very nice. 

Speed – the watch turns on almost instantly, so keeping it turned off before a round isn’t an issue for me.

Manual Putting Mode

I finally gave manual putting mode a try. It messed up for the first two holes entirely, then was actually really good the rest of the round. I felt like it was a lot more accurate as long as I remembered to hit the button. Sadly, the touch screen being unresponsive was a massive annoyance here, as tapping would result in no shot being added. Pretty sure I can press the button though, which I've remembered in retrospect and will switch to for future rounds. 

After the first 9 of me playing a 9 hole for 18, it randomly forgot I had manual putting mode on for some reason (maybe because I turned off scoring?). Then it had the crash when I played with the touch screen for the video, and when it came back and I restarted the round, the manual putting was back.

Overall Rating As of three 9 hole rounds and one 18 hole round

Usability – 6/10

After another 18, knocking usability down further due to how inconsistent the watch has been in general – 5/10

Reliability – 8/10

Statistics – 9/10

Looks – 10/10

Comfort – 10/10

TLDR:

The majority of my issues with the X5 are with the usability. The UI, the shot editing, score tracking, the touch screen wonkiness, all of these combined leave me hoping that they make major strides in what they choose to update in the software for the future. Overall, it does do what it advertises: provide an adequate GPS watch and shot tracking, at a significantly cheaper price point than most of it's competitors. I'm happy with the purchase, and would choose to buy it again now that I know it's quirks. 

 

Statistics and Results

There are some different breakdowns in the app. I'll share some screenshots of the most useful ones to me.

With this, I have confirmed that I should definitely be aiming right down the middle, with my occasional slice right or push/snap hook left. Not all the ones that went right or left were full misses, some were just pushes that were right near the fairway.

I struggle to get to the green at times, or a end up chunking a shot that should get there. Finding out how often I miss short has already led to me clubbing up in places I wouldn't have before.

There are a decent number of graphs for short game, but frankly, my short game is not good enough for some of the metrics. Up/Down percentage for me by club does show I should probably be putting off the green more, but I hate putting off the green and only do it when I'm right on the edge, so there's definitely some bias there.

I don't trust any of the putting statistics without manual mode. I wish there was a way to eliminate just the putting data when I turn on manual mode without going in and setting each putt to be ignored.

Before I received the X5, I went ahead and wrote up the estimates for what I think performance distance averages will be for each club, as well as my maximum distances I’ve measured if I’ve measured one. I thought it would be a good exercise in what belief is vs empirical data. I'll update this again after a total of 180 holes, or if I significantly change out my bag. I've discovered that I probably need to get better at my iron striking in general, as my 7 iron, my most practiced iron, is averaging significantly further than I expected so far. It doesn't seem to capture any lob wedge data so far. I've also only hit some clubs, like my 5 iron and my 3-wood once in the last 45 holes. Estimated Performance Average is my guess, the actual is from my X5. I'm pretty happy with my guestimates, and feel that I generally had a feel on my most used clubs. Some clubs need more data to round out, like my multiple bad 6 iron shots. Overall, capturing this data was really helpful for me, and I'm looking forward to playing more golf just to gather more of it!

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by MsWalkrOfSky
Noting that the review is out of date, due to significant upgrades to the software.

[cnosil]

Great review.   I have the H4 and love the stats it provides.   I looked at the V5 when it was released and personally didn't feel that the things it added were much value add as I simply wanted the distance information and for it to track my performance.   

There are definitely subtle things about the device that you learn over time like when you hit from roughly the same spot it doesn't always record the shot.  Read that it likes 45 seconds between shots.   I also think the lag time for the GPS to update distances makes the putting locations off a bit.  

[cksurfdude]

13 hours ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

was confused why it had the wrong score

Great write up, lots of good info from an interesting techie perspective!

For scoring - you may have found out already but if you don't want to use this feature on the watch you can disable it in Settings. You can also find Putting Mode in there, too, to choose Manual vs Auto.

But I do agree with you on the disconnect between the device "knowing" how many shots you hit to get to the green .. plus then it knows how many putts you just took, sooooo.......

Also agree on the editing UI.. just takes some getting used to, I guess... Was a ShotScope V2 then V3 user, now X5, so have been forced to learn to do it their way ..and yes trying to edit on the mobile app is not great...

So in case you haven't seen it, there's a "ShotScope Users Group" thread under Equipment > Tech. Some of the issues you've found have been discussed in there by other members ... so please join in and add your comments as things come up!

[GolfSpy_APH]

So much good information!

Thank you for the great write up and review! Be sure to link or post about it in the shot scope users thread as well! I think a lot of members there could find a lot of value out of reading your review. 

[MsWalkrOfSky]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:44 PM, cnosil said:

Great review.   I have the H4 and love the stats it provides.   I looked at the V5 when it was released and personally didn't feel that the things it added were much value add as I simply wanted the distance information and for it to track my performance.   

There are definitely subtle things about the device that you learn over time like when you hit from roughly the same spot it doesn't always record the shot.  Read that it likes 45 seconds between shots.   I also think the lag time for the GPS to update distances makes the putting locations off a bit.  

The H4 looks like a solid product, my partner may be getting one for her birthday. She doesn't need a watch and wants to get the same data I'm getting

45 seconds between shots would definitely be a reason why it doesn't detect some of my chips. When I chip it 10 feet and still have 10 feet to go to the green, there is no way there is that much time between shots. Do you know where you read that? Is that something they've said or what users have figured out?

On 4/30/2023 at 11:19 AM, cksurfdude said:

For scoring - you may have found out already but if you don't want to use this feature on the watch you can disable it in Settings. You can also find Putting Mode in there, too, to choose Manual vs Auto.

I did see both of these features I've already turned manual putting on for my next round. I may turn off scoring at some point, because as I said, it's mostly useless. It does say how much above par I am as I play, which is most of the time not great for me 

On 4/30/2023 at 11:19 AM, cksurfdude said:

So in case you haven't seen it, there's a "ShotScope Users Group" thread under Equipment > Tech. Some of the issues you've found have been discussed in there by other members ... so please join in and add your comments as things come up!

I've joined in and will definitely chime in from time to time! I already see that there is a firmware update that addresses the issues I've had with satellite acquisition at the start of rounds. I'll update my review if it's fixed for me!

On 4/30/2023 at 11:22 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Be sure to link or post about it in the shot scope users thread as well! I think a lot of members there could find a lot of value out of reading your review. 

I've linked it, thanks for the suggestion!

[cnosil]

55 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

 

45 seconds between shots would definitely be a reason why it doesn't detect some of my chips. When I chip it 10 feet and still have 10 feet to go to the green, there is no way there is that much time between shots. Do you know where you read that? Is that something they've said or what users have figured out?

 

I have read it on the Shotscope Facebook group page and other forums; apparently it was confirmed by @Gavin_Shot_Scope.   it was programmed this way to help eliminate multiple tags, basically the software uses time and distance to help determine if they were actual swings that should be tracked.  

Even with the H4 there are occasions where a shot is missed because I was too close to my previous shot and didn’t wait to swing again.  Either bad chip or ball was in really deep grass and didn’t go anywhere.   
 

[tony@CIC]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:18 PM, MsWalkrOfSky said:

About the Golfer

I’ve been playing golf seriously for about two years. The first year was pretty slow, but we started lessons about midway through the year and that ramped up our play a lot. Before that, I grew up playing with my grandpa and other family randomly in the summer for fun, never really trying to get better. I went to a golf camp when I was young, but that was the extent of my official instruction. 

I’m sitting at around a 27 handicap at the moment. My handicap calculation is a bit off, as it’s a mix of slope and rating for women and men, as a lot of the courses don’t have any tees rated for women besides the most forward ones. I’m considering going for an official one sometime this year, as I do want to start competing once I feel ready, as I’m a competitor at heart and have a long sports background.

As for what I do besides golf, I’m a competitively oriented gamer, business systems analyst by day, pc builder, DnD loving (though **** WoTC, Pinkertons, really???) all around nerd. Hell, the nerd part is one of the biggest reasons I wanted the X5, I cannot wait to dig into my golf stats and run some analysis myself!

Why the Shot Scope X5?

I have a terrible memory. So bad that I considered getting a clicker when I first started playing again, as I could barely keep my score on a hole. Because of this, I am suspicious about all my beliefs about my game, from my average distances to where I actually need to improve. Looking into the options, I preferred a system that didn’t have a monthly fee, would automatically track it for me, and had decent stats. Shot Scope seemed like the best option that fit these criteria. I was going to get a V3, but the sexiness of the new shiny X5 drew me in and I pulled the trigger!

 

Unboxing and Setup

And boy is it gorgeous! I absolutely love the look and feel of this watch. The strap is high quality, with a lot of flexibility built in. I’ve not felt like it was a weak strap at any point. The watch face itself looks beautiful. I did have some strange plastic stuck in the side as seen in the second picture above, but I just kept digging at it with a finger nail and eventually got it all out.

The initial pairing process was relatively smooth. It had a few firmware updates, and it was good to go. I then went ahead and added all the local courses, as well as a couple courses that I plan to play soon. The app said they were all already mapped, and I was excited for my first round.

I have a pretty old Fitbit Blaze as my daily driver watch, which I’m actually continuing to wear for now. I like its sleep info and the fact that it tracks my exercises, otherwise I’d wear the X5 all the time. Any comments I make about touch screen experience and general feel are compared to the Fitbit Blaze.

 

First Experience on the Course

I had watched a video when I ordered the X5 on how to set up at the course. Considering it took most of the month to get to me, I really should have refreshed my memory before getting out on the course. It was a gorgeous evening, and I headed out to the local executive course with my partner. I figured it would be a good starting point, as the course is shorter than average and most people don’t expect a fast round. I spent about 2 minutes on the first tee futzing around with it to get the round started, which I consider relatively quick for not remembering how to do it at all. It wasn’t until I got to the first green that I remembered something about a manual putting mode. I looked it up and I would have had to set that up before the round. I really had no clue how the non-manual mode worked and was quite confused. As I walked off the green, it prompted me for the pin position with a nice little vibration. I went back and grabbed it, looked down, was confused why it had the wrong score, entered the right score, and went on. Here’s where I ran into the first feature I wish the shot scope had. It defaults to assuming you have two putts on each hole. It then assumes you make par on every hole. I just told you how many putts I had, and you’ve been tracking the clubs I’ve used. Why would it not default to the score that it thinks I got? I found the decision not to do this incredibly strange, but perhaps it has to do with the way the watch tracks data.

I didn’t really use the distance to hazards function on this round, but did try it in my future rounds. It was helpful in some places, but I occasionally pull out my phone to find a line and distance for doglegs with water.

The rest of the round was relatively smooth. I know that course like the back of my hand, and having the distances right on my wrist was a major convenience. I compared the distances to 18 birdies on my phone for the first few holes, and they both tended to match. I was unsure how penalties would be handled, but remembered that editing was required after the round, rather than during. I had some misplaced confidence regarding my ability to do that…

Editing my first round

After spending a few minutes trying to figure out how to end my round, I started out trying to edit my shots on my phone on the way home. I found the app incredibly unresponsive. Every time I tried to move shots around, edit shots, etc, nothing I did seem to work quite right. I became very frustrated, and bullheadedly kept going on the drive home (I wasn’t driving). When I got home, I hopped on my computer and went digging for a video. Shout out to Andy’s Golf Blog (insert link here to youtube channel) for having my back with this 30 minute detailed breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9-AzPTVCDA

After switching to the desktop application, the experience became significantly smoother. I would definitely not say that it was intuitive to navigate; the video definitely helped me sort out the occasionally strange UI design choices. The video also said that the experience on the mobile version of the dashboard is not the recommended one at this time and to avoid using it, which I wholeheartedly agree with. The dashboard was much smoother than the mobile app, and it was a lot easier to place the shots exactly where they needed to go. The course I played did not have any tees built into the app already, so I added the tees and edited the pars for each hole, as many of them were incorrect. This was mildly tedious, but this executive course had just changed ownership, and it is definitely one of the smaller courses around here, so I was hopeful that other courses would have the tees pre-built. The course isn’t rated, so I didn’t bother with a stroke index on each hole. I added a few penalties, corrected a club that was incorrectly identified, added a missing shot or two, added the positional tag to a punch shot or two to prevent them messing up my stats, and finished up my first edit.

 

I excitedly went to dig into my stats! I had heard you could compare shots gained and lost to different handicaps and was really looking forward to this! I was quite sad to find out that 25 was the highest the handicap went for comparison; this means that I would struggle to recommend this to someone that is higher handicap. It’s not that the data isn’t useful anymore, it just is really rough to see almost all strokes lost and no strokes gained anywhere on your stats. For my first round, you can see my results compared to a 25 HDCP below:

It marked my approaches as my biggest problem area for this round. What I found strange was the marking of the number of shots for each of these areas. It said I had 38 putts, when I clearly only had 19? 4 tee shots when I had only 2 on the par 4s? Apparently, for 9 holes it doubles your number of shots to assume 18 played for its calculations. I wish it mentioned that somewhere, but I realized it quickly enough that it wasn’t a problem, just a head scratcher. My approach shots strokes gained was atrocious compared to what I expected, but once I found what they defined as an approach shot it made more sense. “Approach shot: Any shot that is taken from outwith of 50 yards to the pin and is not the tee shot. Par 3 tee shots are also considered approach shots in your stats.” Since I was playing mostly Par 3s and had a couple very bad shots off the tee, this stat began to make more sense to me. I also don’t know how accurate the gained vs lost really is here, as I don’t have a slope and rating for the course to calculate the course handicap.

 

Here are the stats on my first 18 hole round, still not using manual putting mode:

This is actually pretty close to my expectations from my game. I'm a long driver off the tee, and my chips tend to be really good. My putting is godawful, so this makes sense, though I actually was really happy with my putting in general in this round.

 

Editing in general after four rounds

Editing has many places where the experience could be improved. Right now, you cannot change the number for a shot. If you need to add a shot, you select the club, add a shot, then click on the map where you want it to go. It then makes an assumption of what shot number it is based on where on the map it is. This can be quite off at times, with no good way to fix it. I had a bunker that took me two attempts to get out of. It only detected the first attempt, and every time I tried to add the shot, it assumed that I putt back into the bunker. I ended up having to drag around different shots to put things in the correct order and change the clubs all around. Having an option to just change the order of the shots would greatly improve that part of the experience.

I did sort out editing on my phone for my fourth round; I had a fundamental misunderstanding that you would be able to drag the location of shots around. You can only adjust them using the directional arrows when you select a shot. Still, I think desktop is significantly easier. 

You remember my misplaced confidence on my ability to edit? Well, I really, really struggled to edit without taking notes. One of the biggest reasons I struggled is that at the end of each hole, it asks how many putts you had and what your score was. When I go into the dashboard, all the scores are equal to the number of hits detected plus putts inputted. It is extremely irritating to keep track of the score all round, but not actually have a viable score at the end of the round. The number shown on the scoring screen at the end of the round, as confirmed by Shot Scope’s documentation, is the number of swings detected plus putts. So at no point is the score displayed for you other than how over par you are, and once you synchronize the round, it is no longer on the watch. This makes knowing what your score was and correctly editing a full round close to impossible for me without basically keeping score and taking notes on penalties and hits that were very close together, like my sand shot from earlier. I was really hoping to keep to using mostly one device, especially on courses that I know. At the moment, the Shot Scope X5 just does not perform to the level needed to be the only recording device I use for my round, even on my most played courses. For my fourth round, I basically went back to 18 birdies for my score recording in addition to the occasional notes; this worked much better for me.

Other than these gripes, editing has gotten smoother to do with practice. I did my 18 hole round relatively quickly on the way home, with only one hole having a heads scratcher (it didn't detect a chip, and I couldn't remember if I went off the back, front, or side of the green, so I put it on the side. I feel like the editing interface has a lot of room to improve, but it does it job at the moment.

 

Assorted issues I’ve run into 

On starting my third round, I noticed it wasn’t tracking my clubs. For some reason, even though I believed I had set it up the same way I had the previous times, I had somehow gotten score keeping and gps, but not club tracking. After the first hole, I ended the round and restarted the round. It worked that time. I was able to go in after the round and add the first hole back in, estimating where my shots went based on the notes I took when I realized what had happened.

My fourth round it took forever and a couple resets to get the gps to connect and the course to load. Luckily, it was already backed up before we got there, so we were waiting anyway.

The touch screen has been incredibly unresponsive to a disappointing level. Doing anything but tapping on it is always an exercise in frustration and patience, with swipe after swipe resulting in mistaken taps or non-detection. It takes me multiple attempts to unlock it out on the course most of the time. It has led me to not use the hazard distances as often as I should. I’m probably going to switch fully to using the dials as much as possible.

Shot detection when you don’t do a practice swing is iffy for chips and shorter shots in general. It struggles to detect bunker shots at all, probably due to the lack of a practice swing. It also occasionally just misses clubs completely that you did a full shot for, so I have no clue what’s happening there.

I had an instance where the watch refused to connect to my phone in any way after a round, requiring a restart of the device.

 

Positives

I’ve discussed a lot of the negatives of this product. Mainly because the issues I ran into I wasn't really expecting, as I hadn’t really seen many people talk in detail about them.

The lack of a subscription fee – this is a huge plus to me. Software will update and change over time still, but I’ve spent the money I need to spend on this product.

Accurately gauging distances – the GPS has functioned basically perfectly for me. I never felt like the range was off, and it matched with the markers on the course whenever I checked.

Ease of use on the course – once I got going, using the device on the course was relatively simple. I’m going to enable manual putting for future rounds, as I noticed automatic putt tracking is not very accurate. This may change the ease of use, but for now, it's really simple.

Actually getting the data – I would heavily struggle to capture every shot without a device like this; having to take notes on the complicated times is within my bailiwick and not having to manually measure every shot and input the club each time is a massive boon. I would not gain this data without a product like this one. In combination with taking a note or two any hole where something weird happens, I feel like all the data I get is accurate enough to be useful.

Battery life – the battery life has been fantastic so far. I've had no issues here other than not finding a quick and easy way to check remaining battery; plugging it in is the only way I've found so far.

Sensors – the sensors went on the club easily and fit very snuggly. They fade into the background and I already don't notice them at all.

Display quality – the brightness and crispness of the display is very nice. 

Speed – the watch turns on almost instantly, so keeping it turned off before a round isn’t an issue for me.

 

Overall Rating As of three 9 hole rounds and one 18 hole round

Usability – 6/10

Reliability – 8/10

Statistics – 9/10

Looks – 10/10

Comfort – 10/10

TLDR:

The majority of my issues with the X5 are with the usability. The UI, the shot editing, score tracking, the touch screen wonkiness, all of these combined leave me hoping that they make major strides in what they choose to update in the software for the future. Overall, it does do what it advertises: provide an adequate GPS watch and shot tracking, at a significantly cheaper price point than most of it's competitors. I'm happy with the purchase, and would choose to buy it again now that I know it's quirks.

 

Statistics and Results

There are some different breakdowns in the app. I'll share some screenshots of the most useful ones to me.

With this, I have confirmed that I should definitely be aiming right down the middle, with my occasional slice right or push/snap hook left. Not all the ones that went right or left were full misses, some were just pushes that were right near the fairway.

I struggle to get to the green at times, or a end up chunking a shot that should get there. Finding out how often I miss short has already led to me clubbing up in places I wouldn't have before.

There are a decent number of graphs for short game, but frankly, my short game is not good enough for some of the metrics. Up/Down percentage for me by club does show I should probably be putting off the green more, but I hate putting off the green and only do it when I'm right on the edge, so there's definitely some bias there.

I don't trust any of the putting statistics without manual mode. I wish there was a way to eliminate just the putting data when I turn on manual mode without going in and setting each putt to be ignored.

Before I received the X5, I went ahead and wrote up the estimates for what I think performance distance averages will be for each club, as well as my maximum distances I’ve measured if I’ve measured one. I thought it would be a good exercise in what belief is vs empirical data. I'll update this again after a total of 180 holes, or if I significantly change out my bag. I've discovered that I probably need to get better at my iron striking in general, as my 7 iron, my most practiced iron, is averaging significantly further than I expected so far. It doesn't seem to capture any lob wedge data so far. I've also only hit some clubs, like my 5 iron and my 3-wood once in the last 45 holes. Estimated Performance Average is my guess, the actual is from my X5. I'm pretty happy with my guestimates, and feel that I generally had a feel on my most used clubs. Some clubs need more data to round out, like my multiple bad 6 iron shots. Overall, capturing this data was really helpful for me, and I'm looking forward to playing more golf just to gather more of it!

 

 

Great review! Some of us share the same concerns - including the responsiveness of the touch screen for unlocking. That's an even bigger quandary for the lefty; since the bezel is on the right side of the watch and the screen is less than responsive so do I keep it unlocked or....

Interesting comment on the app vs. dashboard. You're correct that you get more info on the dashboard but my personal preference is the app for editing. 

Keep us updated on your experiences both Shotscope and golfing in general. 

[JerryB]

Great review!  Like you touched on, my big gripe is that the Shot Scope stats are geared more towards better golfers rather than beginners.  I would have liked to see how I compared to, say, a 30 handicap when I was still learning.  And some of the graphs are useless at my level.  But overall I dig it too, even though I'm still getting used to the X5 compared to the V3.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, JerryB said:

Great review!  Like you touched on, my big gripe is that the Shot Scope stats are geared more towards better golfers rather than beginners.  I would have liked to see how I compared to, say, a 30 handicap when I was still learning.  And some of the graphs are useless at my level.  But overall I dig it too, even though I'm still getting used to the X5 compared to the V3.

I will say as a lower handicap player,  there are a lot of stats and it requires effort to dig in and understand what to actually work on.   Strokes Gained is nice,  but there is so much detail behind that one metric.  

[nupezb]

I will say as a lower handicap player,  there are a lot of stats and it requires effort to dig in and understand what to actually work on.   Strokes Gained is nice,  but there is so much detail behind that one metric.  

Yes, their stats require some deeper digging into, but I will say they have a few good videos on their YouTube page that goes into some of the details.

A suggestion would be a quick summary page that states your top three/four areas to improve and your strengths. This way, I can look at those areas for more details


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tony@CIC]

14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I will say as a lower handicap player,  there are a lot of stats and it requires effort to dig in and understand what to actually work on.   Strokes Gained is nice,  but there is so much detail behind that one metric.  

I'm not a big fan of  'strokes gained' since it's too high level of a data point for me. But, tat's that nice thing about having a plethora of information in Shotscope to help drive improvement. I tend to look at club distances - am I improving?, Fairways hit - % left or right, and what is the biggest miss for me - approach shots.  

[JerryB]

20 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I will say as a lower handicap player,  there are a lot of stats and it requires effort to dig in and understand what to actually work on.   Strokes Gained is nice,  but there is so much detail behind that one metric.  

I'm speaking along the lines of the Approach metric below.  According to the app, my average is +104ft compared to a 0 handicap which means that half of their graph would still be the 60+ orange bar.   

 

Or the Score Breakdown that stops at double bogey+.  I still have many holes that are worse and it's both difficult and somewhat frustrating to determine if I'm improving.

[nupezb]

I'm speaking along the lines of the Approach metric below.  According to the app, my average is +104ft compared to a 0 handicap which means that half of their graph would still be the 60+ orange bar.   

 
Or the Score Breakdown that stops at double bogey+.  I still have many holes that are worse and it's both difficult and somewhat frustrating to determine if I'm improving.

Here is a potentially good video on approach shots

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

I'm not a big fan of  'strokes gained' since it's too high level of a data point for me. But, tat's that nice thing about having a plethora of information in Shotscope to help drive improvement. I tend to look at club distances - am I improving?, Fairways hit - % left or right, and what is the biggest miss for me - approach shots.  

I am digging deeper,   I don't care about FW% or biggest miss.  I am looking at the individual clubs to see if there are specific distances or clubs are where my issues lie.  

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, JerryB said:

I'm speaking along the lines of the Approach metric below.  According to the app, my average is +104ft compared to a 0 handicap which means that half of their graph would still be the 60+ orange bar.   

 

Or the Score Breakdown that stops at double bogey+.  I still have many holes that are worse and it's both difficult and somewhat frustrating to determine if I'm improving.

 

Dumb question on your proximity.   When you are playing par 5s,   are you trying to get on the green every time?   If not,  are you marking those shots as positional?   It is a quirky thing in SS but if you don't mark it as positional then it adds your layup shot as a missed green.   

IMO, The device and the metrics are probably less beneficial the higher your handicap.  When you are scoring double or worse,  you are typically getting penalties,  duffing shots, and/or really weak in some other area.  Because of that it is a bit easier to assess what needs improvement.     I'd probably back off and use a spreadsheet to manually track some basic metrics like penalties,  double bogies, shots that result in having to play a shot that you can't get on the green and have to pitch out to advance, etc. 

[JerryB]

15 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Dumb question on your proximity.

[MsWalkrOfSky]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

Dumb question on your proximity.   When you are playing par 5s,   are you trying to get on the green every time?   If not,  are you marking those shots as positional?   It is a quirky thing in SS but if you don't mark it as positional then it adds your layup shot as a missed green. 

Dammit is that how this works??? Ugh. Time to go back through every single one of my rounds and mark positional shots as needed, I thought that was for stuff like punching out of trees.

[tony@CIC]

8 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

Dammit is that how this works??? Ugh. Time to go back through every single one of my rounds and mark positional shots as needed, I thought that was for stuff like punching out of trees.

Yup there are a few small quirks like that. Hope you didn't have too many rounds to fix. 

[MsWalkrOfSky]

49 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Yup there are a few small quirks like that. Hope you didn't have too many rounds to fix.

It wasn't too bad to fix luckily. I only have five total rounds at the moment. It definitely cleaned up the data some, as I had some driver shots that were labeled approaches because of 3 off the tee. It seems much more usable now to me. I'm going to edit this into my review for people that just read the reviews!

[tony@CIC]

15 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

It wasn't too bad to fix luckily. I only have five total rounds at the moment. It definitely cleaned up the data some, as I had some driver shots that were labeled approaches because of 3 off the tee. It seems much more usable now to me. I'm going to edit this into my review for people that just read the reviews!

As you get more rounds in - and look at your club distances you may find one that's a bit out of wack; say a 9i that's 250 yds. (because of a missed shot). In the app (not sure how it works in the dashboard) when you click on that distance it'll take you to the round and the particular hole so you can fix it. 

[MsWalkrOfSky]

I've updated the review! I added a video of my touch screen woes. I'm going to send it to the company, as when I contacted customer support about it, they asked for one. 

 

15 hours ago, JerryB said:

Or the Score Breakdown that stops at double bogey+.  I still have many holes that are worse and it's both difficult and somewhat frustrating to determine if I'm improving.

I really wish you could put in your handicap and tell it to use net instead of gross for stats like this. I feel like that would be a useful metric for everyone; how well did I play exactly compared to what my handicap is. I agree with you that at minimum, it should just have a score breakdown up to quintuple bogey or something. 

 

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

IMO, The device and the metrics are probably less beneficial the higher your handicap.  When you are scoring double or worse,  you are typically getting penalties,  duffing shots, and/or really weak in some other area.  Because of that it is a bit easier to assess what needs improvement.     I'd probably back off and use a spreadsheet to manually track some basic metrics like penalties,  double bogies, shots that result in having to play a shot that you can't get on the green and have to pitch out to advance, etc. 

I actually disagree with this a lot. With higher handicaps, unless you make getting better at golf your second job, manual tracking is a nightmare. Tracking what the hell happened when you hit 10+ shots on a hole is a horrible experience and incredibly demoralizing in a different way than looking at data that has already been put in. As an aside, for people that say after that many you should just pick up, as long as you're keeping pace or the course is slow, I entirely disagree with that philosophy unless it's to maintain mental and keep having fun. Not getting the ball in the hole robs you of the experience you get from playing from a crap location, awkward distances, while frustrated, which are skills every golfer needs to develop.

I think high handicappers want to just be able to get some fun data to see what misconceptions they have about their game, without putting much effort into figuring it out. Sure, they mostly know that they have a lot to work on and it's not super hard to figure out that it's basically everything. But this data can show when they start actually making improvements that aren't score related. For example, my partner had a fantastic round the most recent time we played. She lowered her handicap by 3 strokes from 45 to 42. She felt like she played well, but didn't realize how well in context of how she played previously. She tried to keep track of some shots, but quickly gave up due to frustration with trying to push her cart and mess around on her phone when she just wanted to be enjoying the pretty course and the nice weather. She would have loved to be able to see what shot decisions and what club choices helped her the most that day, but it's just not in the cards.

This device is spending money to save time that could be spent enjoying yourself, instead of doing golf homework on and off the course. You could get almost all these metrics for free yourself if you put in the work; manually tracking shots on your phone with gps with a free app then converting the data after a round to spreadsheet form to measure performance. I'd argue if a high handicapper wants data, there is no better way to get it than a system like this, and that data at all levels of golf is incredibly useful, as data doesn't lie to us like we can to ourselves.

[tony@CIC]

18 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

I've updated the review! I added a video of my touch screen woes. I'm going to send it to the company, as when I contacted customer support about it, they asked for one. 

 

I really wish you could put in your handicap and tell it to use net instead of gross for stats like this. I feel like that would be a useful metric for everyone; how well did I play exactly compared to what my handicap is. I agree with you that at minimum, it should just have a score breakdown up to quintuple bogey or something. 

 

I actually disagree with this a lot. With higher handicaps, unless you make getting better at golf your second job, manual tracking is a nightmare. Tracking what the hell happened when you hit 10+ shots on a hole is a horrible experience and incredibly demoralizing in a different way than looking at data that has already been put in. As an aside, for people that say after that many you should just pick up, as long as you're keeping pace or the course is slow, I entirely disagree with that philosophy unless it's to maintain mental and keep having fun. Not getting the ball in the hole robs you of the experience you get from playing from a crap location, awkward distances, while frustrated, which are skills every golfer needs to develop.

I think high handicappers want to just be able to get some fun data to see what misconceptions they have about their game, without putting much effort into figuring it out. Sure, they mostly know that they have a lot to work on and it's not super hard to figure out that it's basically everything. But this data can show when they start actually making improvements that aren't score related. For example, my partner had a fantastic round the most recent time we played. She lowered her handicap by 3 strokes from 45 to 42. She felt like she played well, but didn't realize how well in context of how she played previously. She tried to keep track of some shots, but quickly gave up due to frustration with trying to push her cart and mess around on her phone when she just wanted to be enjoying the pretty course and the nice weather. She would have loved to be able to see what shot decisions and what club choices helped her the most that day, but it's just not in the cards.

This device is spending money to save time that could be spent enjoying yourself, instead of doing golf homework on and off the course. You could get almost all these metrics for free yourself if you put in the work; manually tracking shots on your phone with gps with a free app then converting the data after a round to spreadsheet form to measure performance. I'd argue if a high handicapper wants data, there is no better way to get it than a system like this, and that data at all levels of golf is incredibly useful, as data doesn't lie to us like we can to ourselves.

A few thoughts: The primary reason in my mind is to pick-up is to minimize slow play. If no one is behind you - hit as many shots as you'd like. Yes it is frustrating having to fiddle with the device and concentrate on your game as you're hitting shot #10. As someone who started golfing when I retired, I recall playing with a bunch of guys and one calling out  that's 11. Very embarrassing - something I wanted to forget and not have data on my phone or pc to remind me of it. As one gets better then it makes sense to start looking at empirical vs anecdotal data. I still consider myself a high handicapper(19)  but look at every round afterwards to evaluate it. I find some pleasant info - like pars and not so like blow-ups = doubles or an occasional triple.  The data helps me in working on eliminating those bad holes. And I also share the club performance data with my instructor so we have more concrete info to work on. My wife started playing at the same time I did - she's a 30 hcp but doesn't practice - she hates the range. She uses Shotscope as well - probably more to confirm some of her great shots (she's a long driver). . However, she wants to get better and is also beginning to use tracking data to confirm what she thought about the round. 

If a new golfer is a very high handicapper - I'd recommend that they probably delay  the purchase of a shot tracking product as they have too much to think about as they're hitting a shot or getting ready to step onto the tee box. 

[MsWalkrOfSky]

10 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Very embarrassing - something I wanted to forget and not have data on my phone or pc to remind me of it. As one gets better then it makes sense to start looking at empirical vs anecdotal data

Why do you think it's only useful as one gets better? What is the invisible line in the sand you're drawing here and why? I included the embarrassing part because that's the only reason I can think of to avoid keeping a score at all when you're a high handicapper. 

Also, it sounds like you friends are kind of assholes if they're putting you down instead of lifting you up in that situation; not really the most fun people to be learning something around. Just my opinion, golf tends to make people think it's okay to be an ******* to each other and give each other s*** in a way that wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else. 

 

11 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

If a new golfer is a very high handicapper - I'd recommend that they probably delay  the purchase of a shot tracking product as they have too much to think about as they're hitting a shot or getting ready to step onto the tee box. 

I mean, having the shot tracking product when actually getting ready to hit a shot changes absolutely nothing about hitting the shots. Why would you recommend they delay the purchase, and to what point should they delay to?

 

As an aside, in most competitive things I've played or done, from playing magic the gathering to rocket league to soccer, there is almost always this attitude that data is not as useful for the people that are worse than you. The skill level of the person talking about it never really matters; they consider themselves past the line in the sand they've drawn, and to them, data is useful, so it must be that data is not as useful for people worse than them, because they've come up with so many more ways to use it since they started tracking and and and... They seem to miss the picture that the moment you start tracking and looking at data, you start to find ways to use it. Whether you use it for confidence, decision making, or to confirm habits and ideas that you've already developed, the data is useful. There's a reason that products like this can advertise that having them leads to lowering your scores by X amount. I honestly already have had my game changed significantly by the tracking so far, and cannot really figure out how I would have played certain holes without the assurance and data I have now.

I do acknowledge in my review that this product specifically isn't great for a high handicapper, but only because the app assumes them to be at a certain level, and that makes it rough to look at all negative data. The data itself would still be very useful for them, it's just presented in a bad way. I think that adding handicaps up to 45 would greatly increase the reach of the product.

 

Also, I am open to having my mind changed about this; I just haven't seen a convincing argument that can't just be extended to, if you're not a professional or close to professional level, data just doesn't help you as much as them, so it's pointless for you.

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

And I also share the club performance data with my instructor so we have more concrete info to work on. 

I think this is a great use for shot tracking since it give definitive data on what’s happening on the course and not a player’s interpretation.   
 

44 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

I actually disagree with this a lot. With higher handicaps, unless you make getting better at golf your second job, manual tracking is a nightmare. Tracking what the hell happened when you hit 10+ shots on a hole is a horrible experience and incredibly demoralizing in a different way than looking at data that has already been put in.

Totally respect you opinion and you do what works for you.  I am looking at it from the perspective of a lower handicap player and I find the data overwhelming,  time consuming to interpret, and I question the value of the detail is provided to help me get better at golf.  Of course that depends on what data you are looking at and what analysis you are doing with the data.  
 

I  am a year into using the device and considering going back to just tracking some basic metrics and seeing how they trend over time since they provide me the detail I would need to assess my game.  

I personally think the Tiger 5 is very insightful and can be tweaked by handicap if desired

• No Bogeys on par 5s 
• No doubles
• No bogeys from 150 - hard but helps assess approach game. 
• No blown up and downs - basically get on the green with your first chip
• No 3 putts 

track these totals from each round  and if you do a graph in excel you can see trends and improvements over time.   Takes about 5 minutes to do so it isn’t overwhelming.  Post round I can make some quick notes if needed on why one of these happened.  

 

[cnosil]

17 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

Also, I am open to having my mind changed about this; I just haven't seen a convincing argument that can't just be extended to, if you're not a professional or close to professional level, data just doesn't help you as much as them, so it's pointless for you.

I think data is important for all levels especially higher handicaps,  the question is what data provides the most value to assist in improvement.   

[MsWalkrOfSky]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Totally respect you opinion and you do what works for you.  I am looking at it from the perspective of a lower handicap player and I find the data overwhelming,  time consuming to interpret, and I question the value of the detail is provided to help me get better at golf.  Of course that depends on what data you are looking at and what analysis you are doing with the data.

Same to you Your opinion matters and I engage on here because I care and want to learn more about the thought processes behind different people's different opinions

I can see the amount of data being overwhelming. Honestly, I think for most higher handicappers, the most useful data will be the shot length they hit with their clubs, the average, max, etc. That, combined with what direction their misses go most often, can help shape their future rounds in a way that just practice wont. 

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I personally think the Tiger 5 is very insightful and can be tweaked by handicap if desired

• No Bogeys on par 5s 
• No doubles
• No bogeys from 150 - hard but helps assess approach game. 
• No blown up and downs - basically get on the green with your first chip
• No 3 putts 

This does seem like an excellent system to measure improvement in different areas with only a little data recording. I might see if I can convince my partner to give this one a go until she ends up buying her own shot scope product lol.

 

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I think data is important for all levels especially higher handicaps,  the question is what data provides the most value to assist in improvement.   

That makes sense. What data do you think would be most useful for high handicappers improvement? 

[cnosil]

31 minutes ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

 

I can see the amount of data being overwhelming. Honestly, I think for most higher handicappers, the most useful data will be the shot length they hit with their clubs, the average, max, etc. That, combined with what direction their misses go most often, can help shape their future rounds in a way that just practice wont. 

That makes sense. What data do you think would be most useful for high handicappers improvement? 

That’s a good question and I think it varies based on the player.  People are high handicappers for multiple reasons and there isn’t just one area to focus on improving.   Just like stat trackers, break the game into these 4 parts: tee shots, approach, short game, and putting.  

for tee shots think about which direction they typically go, are you making good contact, do you get penalties off the tee, are you in a spot where you can advance the ball toward the green or have to hit out of the trees to have a shot toward the green. Simply label tee shots as good or bad 

Approach is probably the same as tee shots.

short game (50 yards and in) simply would be how often am I getting on the green.

putting would be 3 putts and putts missed inside 3 feet.  

Keep track of penalties: this kills scores immediately   

A prior coach of mine had me capture these:

• good or bad tee shot - bad was penalty or I couldn’t hit a full swing shot to go for the green.  Work to increase good tee shots 
• approach distance. - this will help you see if are hitting your approaches well; you can even note the club
• GIR/nGIR - did you hit the green or was the ball within 5 feet if the green (near GIR)   Look to make this number higher.  If missing the greens start thinking why which gives you a focus to work on.
• number of putts - this is simplified from what he gave me, he wanted putt distances but for high handicapper you are probably avoiding 3 putts or worse. 

Just jot these down on the scorecard and keep track over time.   the focus them becomes how do I improve each area.  Why did I have so many bad tee shots, why are my approaches not good, why didn’t I get on the green fro inside 50 yards, Dino I have direction or distance issues with putting.    If using a system like shotscope this is still where I would start.  I think the secret to golf is basically: Reduce penalties, reduce bad strokes, get on the green, avoid 3 putts.  Easy to say, hard to do.  
 

It should be laborious, simply look back at your round and ask yourself what needs the most help.  Understanding expectations is also important.  For example, People get mad for missing an 8 foot putt when the Tour players make rate is 50% from that distance.  From 100 yards in the fairway pros average just over 3 strokes to finish the hole.  

[tony@CIC]

7 hours ago, MsWalkrOfSky said:

Why do you think it's only useful as one gets better? What is the invisible line in the sand you're drawing here and why? I included the embarrassing part because that's the only reason I can think of to avoid keeping a score at all when you're a high handicapper. 

Also, it sounds like you friends are kind of assholes if they're putting you down instead of lifting you up in that situation; not really the most fun people to be learning something around. Just my opinion, golf tends to make people think it's okay to be an ******* to each other and give each other s*** in a way that wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else. 

 

I mean, having the shot tracking product when actually getting ready to hit a shot changes absolutely nothing about hitting the shots. Why would you recommend they delay the purchase, and to what point should they delay to?

 

As an aside, in most competitive things I've played or done, from playing magic the gathering to rocket league to soccer, there is almost always this attitude that data is not as useful for the people that are worse than you. The skill level of the person talking about it never really matters; they consider themselves past the line in the sand they've drawn, and to them, data is useful, so it must be that data is not as useful for people worse than them, because they've come up with so many more ways to use it since they started tracking and and and... They seem to miss the picture that the moment you start tracking and looking at data, you start to find ways to use it. Whether you use it for confidence, decision making, or to confirm habits and ideas that you've already developed, the data is useful. There's a reason that products like this can advertise that having them leads to lowering your scores by X amount. I honestly already have had my game changed significantly by the tracking so far, and cannot really figure out how I would have played certain holes without the assurance and data I have now.

I do acknowledge in my review that this product specifically isn't great for a high handicapper, but only because the app assumes them to be at a certain level, and that makes it rough to look at all negative data. The data itself would still be very useful for them, it's just presented in a bad way. I think that adding handicaps up to 45 would greatly increase the reach of the product.

 

Also, I am open to having my mind changed about this; I just haven't seen a convincing argument that can't just be extended to, if you're not a professional or close to professional level, data just doesn't help you as much as them, so it's pointless for you.

The great thing about this Forum is that we value each others ideas. so I certainly appreciate your points. Way back when I thought breaking 110 was a good result there were lots of thoughts going through my mind as I approached the ball. Today with the X5 in particular; unlocking, checking to see if the distance is right, moving the pin on the green as you're ready to hit an approach shot, etc. is just extra noise  that takes away from executing the shot well. Can a person (specifically very high handicapper) do it - of course , will it ultimately add value - yup. But could it have been a better strike if one wasn't fiddling with it - potentially. Do I have a clear (hcp) line as when it makes sense? Nope. 

As mentioned previously, my wife is currently a 30 and working on her game to drop it down. She uses the X5 (previously V3) to know the distances of her clubs. The data she's accumulated over the past 18 months is very telling for her - especially the Performance Avg. She uses that data as she's thinking about what club to use based on course conditions. She doesn't need the scoring feature - that's evident in the score card. Strokes gained ? Nope. However, she does like the hole performance (average score for a particular hole) as it tends to show patterns by hole.  So there is value for a high hcp.  Knowing her, at some point she graduate to using the full Shotscope capabilities. 

BTW was the guy who called the 11 an A**hole - yup - never played with him again. I play weekly in 3 different men's groups, 1 mixed couples group + my wife and I will play at least once a week. At all of those outings everyone encourages each other;  high 5's the great shots. share the pain of the lost ball and comments positively on our respective games afterwards.  

 

[JerryB]

Well said, @MsWalkrOfSky.  I wish I could articulate my points as well as you have.

 

7 hours ago, cnosil said:

It should be laborious, simply look back at your round and ask yourself what needs the most help. 

@cnosil I just want to be clear; are you saying it should, or shouldn't?  I agree with most everything you've said so far; I think most of what you've mentioned is covered by the SS stats.  The thing I especially like is the ability to take that data and filter the date to see...while maybe not what I specifically need to improve, but more of a positive affirmation that I am indeed improving.

@tony@CIC Your wife as an example is very much why I like using the watch, too.  I'm not a fiddler; all I need to do is glance at the F/M/B to get an idea of what club to use and then the watch has served its purpose for that shot.  I just would like to see Shot Scope help us higher handicappers out by extending their data into that direction a little more.

[cnosil]

57 minutes ago, JerryB said:

 

@cnosil I just want to be clear; are you saying it should, or shouldn't?  I agree with most everything you've said so far; I think most of what you've mentioned is covered by the SS stats.  The thing I especially like is the ability to take that data and filter the date to see...while maybe not what I specifically need to improve, but more of a positive affirmation that I am indeed improving.

sorry, I meant shouldn't.  

I do like what SS provides and most of it is covered with the SS stats in some way.  it just occasionally gets cumbersome to find what I am looking for since there is way more information than I need.