Silver Datsun Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 On the right side of the first green on my home course, there is a cart path that starts around pin-high and then proceeds to the second hole. Every gas cart drives over the grass right before the path starts. The ground in this area is clearly NOT a cart path. It is a grassy area that has been flattened and compacted by many gas carts. It is NOT marked as GUR. There are no ruts. My opinion is you do NOT get free relief. In support of my opinion, I remember the 2022 Sony Open in Hawaii. Kevin Chappell was denied relief under Rule 16.1 from cart tracks. The rules official (Ken Tackett) said, "...it's not the tracks, it has to be a rut where the ball is sitting down." https://golf.com/instruction/rules/pro-denied-rules-relief-cleverly-asks-birdie/ On the other hand, 16.1 seems to indicate you DO get relief because this condition is not part of the challenge of playing the course. I don't think playing from hard-pan caused by gas carts is part of the challenge of playing the course. 16.1 also says if the condition interferes with your lie, then it's an abnormal course condition. I think the hard-pan does interfere with the lie. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/topics/abnormal-course-conditions-embedded-ball.html So, do I get free relief? If you could provide evidence/logic with your answer, I would very much appreciate that. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Do you think you would get relief from hardpan between the rough and tree line where carts drive down a hole? Imo hardpan regardless it’s near a hole where along cart path or along the rough where carts drive down a hole to their ball and after a shot to their next shot falls under the rule you posted. Hard pan doesn’t interfere with your lie. It’s just a less than ideal lie. Does it suck to have to play from there? Yup. But bad luck/bad breaks don’t entitle anyone to free relief. cksurfdude 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Silver Datsun said: So, do I get free relief? If you could provide evidence/logic with your answer, I would very much appreciate that. No, it is not an artificial surface. The article below discusses sandy cart paths, but I would say also applies to the firm path that you are referring to. https://golf.com/instruction/rules/rules-corner-relief-sandy-cart-path/ cksurfdude 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish-Assassin Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 It’s a double edge sword, the rules of golf are clear, but some courses have local rules, sometimes it’s on the scorecard. Cement or Concrete free to move, others no, unless local rules allow it and sometimes that’s only in casual play and not tournaments. When this comes up the old adage is, don’t hit it there. Yes not helpful but someone in the group will say it. Quote Titleist TRS Driver, Titleist TSR 3 Wood, Titleist TRS 2 Hybrid, Titleist T300 irons, Vokey SM9 wedges 56 - 60, Scotty Cameron putter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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