Subdiver1 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 2 hours ago, ChitownM2 said: L to R correct? Yeah Evnroll doesn't sell those grips anymore which is eventually going to be a problem for me. I've got one in OK condition and another reserve I bought last summer from them but pretty sure they are long gone now. I've got some of the old gravity grips but those aren't exactly the same and are heavy so it changes the swing weight. Interesting. I was wondering why I couldn't find this grip on their site. I'll let you know what I think about all of them in comparison. Still working on swapping back. Thanks for the info on the Evnroll grips. Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) Garsen asserts the following: The Max grip creates a much more biomechanically efficient position for the putting stroke. The Ultimate provides the innovation of side facing thumb position providing biomechanical advantages with a more traditional overall feel. The Quad Tour’s unique parallelogram design fits most traditional golf grips perfectly, but also works great for claw, and saw style putting grips. And the Quads’ flat topline and bottom makes it easy to consistently square up the putter face every time. So, what did I find about how the MAX compared to my gamer set-up? BLUF: I was not happy with the results I saw in this series of testing; I completed some field testing the other day and am including the data here along with some detail about how I gathered this data and came to such an insightful epiphany. Indoor Test - 3 putts from 5 and 10 feet each, one set in each direction, on a Birdie Ball putting mat. Outdoor Test 1 - 8 putts set up in a circle around the pin from 3 feet, then moving back to 6, then 9 feet. I completed each distance with each putter set-up before moving out to the next distance. Outdoor Test 2 - 5 putts working back from 6, 12, 18 and 24 feet recording made, miss left/right and short. I completed each set with each putter before reseting at 6 feet with the next putter set-up. Each of this set was done from 3 locations, flat/straight (or as close as could be, uphill and downhill. Analysis. Not a great make percentage. My putts per round ratio is around 1.8; as you can see from the phenomenal, interactive, professionally done graphics, I don't think I am seeing that here. I think one of the issues is putter set-up. I did not have my OEM Evnroll grip installed and I did not feel comfortable with the Super Stroke grip; I think that set everything off a bit since I was trying to find grip and feel. I think having the set-up I am used to would have better allowed for me to move into the Garsen and do a more effective comparison. Results: I have already swapped the Evnroll OEM grip back onto the original ER2, installed the MAX on the black ER2 and I will be resetting this test series (though this will NOT happen on Mother's Day - sorry folks, even I know which days to avoid heading out to the course - sometimes ) I tried to load a video of my perspective on the grip feel in my hands and on the club, you can listen to me ramble on for about 26 seconds: https://rumble.com/v2nsodi-mgs-garsen-max-grip.html. or read the summary here: I like the feel of the ridges where the grip rolls from bottom to top because it allows me to feel where my trailing index finger, which I keep extended and pointed downward along the back of the grip, should be. The ridge might provide a nice alignment aid for consistent placement of that finger. Size-wise, I feel like the grip is a little small and the roll causes me to want to "wrap" my hands vs. leaving them cupping the grip. I'll try to add some pics of what I am talking about in case that is confusing. Otherwise, the weight and feel during a stroke is comparable to the OEM Evnroll I am playing now, which I feel comfortable with. Key attributes I was looking for to determine if I like the Garsen Max are: Feel - how the grip/putter set up and feel through the stroke. Distance Control - Personally I feel this is more important than "accuracy" because accuracy can be affected by poor reads and things outside our control (bumpy surface, detritus and debris, cars back-firing, loud music etc.) Accuracy - As long as I am not WAY off or short then, in my opinion, accuracy is something that is relative as noted above, important YES, but relative. I can work on reading a green, but if my speed/distance cannot be controlled it is a lost cause (hmmm...I think my golf game sort of resembles that remark). Let me know what questions you have. Data is below. I will be looking to get the retest data and some game time done this week. Edited May 14, 2023 by Subdiver1 Added video link Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry_Squishie Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) Some first impressions: Like others have said, Garsen claim the Max grip puts you into a more "Biomechanically efficient position". Holding onto the Max without it being on a club yet, there is a difference in how my hands fit onto the club. Like their claims, the palms seem to be facing each other. One key I think of is how Steve Stricker emphasises releasing the toe in the follow through. When I putt poorly, my tendency is to hold the face square to the target line as long as possible. Without the feel of the clubhead there, it seems like the MAX grip would help with this. My putter is getting the grip put on today, so will get into some putting very soon. About all of the grips: The materials feel nice. Nothing unusual about them but they don’t feel cheap or low quality. There is some visible flash on the moulded grip ends. It has zero impact on your putting but this might be an issue for some purchasers who are very particular with presentation. Although not my main product, the Ultimate has the option of green. I used a grey card to get the colour as accurate as possible. I don’t think it’s quite as bright in real life in comparison to the website photo (it looks like that’s been shot with proper studio lights). It’s an option that is different to the rest of the range. The Ultimate is longer than the other grips and my Superstroke grip too. This wouldn’t be an accident, but I don't know Garsen's reasoning for it. There is an option to get a 15” version of the Max. Perhaps this is Garsen's product offering for the strategy Viktor Hovland and Cameron Champ take with their putters. Edited May 15, 2023 by Blueberry_Squishie Removed duplicate images ACalling, LeftyMatt89 and Siamese Moose 3 Quote Cobra F9 9.5° (Hzrdus Yellow X) Cobra Speedzone 15° (Tensei Blue X) Srixon H85 19° (Hzrdus Black 85 6.0) Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-PW (KBS $ Taper 120S) Mizuno T20 51°, 55°, 59° (KBS $ Taper 120S) Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 34" Srixon ZStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 "...the palms seem to be facing each other." This is the issue that I am seeing with the Max; I thought the design would do that for me, but because of the way the grip rolls up toward that peak I am riding that my palms are rolling around/wrapping and coming together more like on a standard club grip. I am still working with it, but I really want the backs of my hands to be at 3 and 9 o'clock, not at 10/11 and 1/1 o'clock. Great pics and I like the way you pulled that all together. I am surprised by the size comparison of the Max to your SS grip. I'll take a couple of pics of the SS that was on the ER2, it was a different model and it was larger diameter. Looking forward to reading more of your feedback. Cheers Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evomo23 Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 I notice that every test situation the ones chosen have twitter or IG is that a prerequisite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 28 minutes ago, evomo23 said: I notice that every test situation the ones chosen have twitter or IG is that a prerequisite No. I suggest you read this thread to understand how testers are selected by the mod team: https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/49045-2023-want-to-be-a-mgs-forum-tester-read-here/# Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamese Moose Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 34 minutes ago, evomo23 said: I notice that every test situation the ones chosen have twitter or IG is that a prerequisite I've been chosen four times, and I have neither Twitter no IG Quote Moose, my cat, is Siamese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 On 5/15/2023 at 1:29 PM, evomo23 said: I notice that every test situation the ones chosen have twitter or IG is that a prerequisite In addition to the thread that @cnosil has graciously suggested, I would suggest that you take a look at what those who have been selected typically post to the forum. This can be done by going to their profiles and looking at recent activity. The common link that you will find is that they are actively engaged in a number of threads. They create and/or contribute to topics and threads on things they are curious about and want to discuss with their fellow forum members. There is no magic formula, that will guarantee being picked, but being actively engaged goes a long way toward showing the Forum Staff what you are capable of and what they would receive, should you be selected. edingc, cnosil, Subdiver1 and 1 other 4 Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 16, 2023 Share Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) I played my first round using the new ER2 equipped with the Garsen Max and I did some more practice green testing. According to the score card the course rating/slope are 71.2/122, yardage from the tees I played, 6386 yards Shot 75 with 28 total putts and NO 3-putts; that is a nice feeling. I believe that is also 1.55 putts per hole; below my threshold for better than 1.8 to keep it in the bag. I made some adjustments from being able to use the OEM Evnroll again and I think that helped with set-up and thus stroke. For the practice green, after my round, I reperformed the circle, 8 putts from evenly spaced spots around the cup at 3, 6 and 10 feet (I did that 3x from each position with each putter set-up). Then 8 putts with each putter set-up from 6, 12, 18 and 24 feet. The chart show performance. Based on raw data it will be hard to go back to the OEM grip if this continues. Of course the on course performance is somewhat subject to sticking shots or leaving approaches at hopeless lag distances Dropping 3 24+ footers in a row was kind of a nice feeling (I'll see if I can post video later). In the meantime, it is looking pretty good for the Max and I am wondering how the Ultimate and Quad will perform in comparison. Another round scheduled for tomorrow evening so I will provide more data following that outing. Cheers Edited May 16, 2023 by Subdiver1 Add photos StrokerAce 1 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 2nd round yesterday evening with the Garsen Max installed. I was only able to get 9-holes in. 14 putts, no 3-putts. Very happy with distance control, not that this has been an issue in the past, but considering that I am working with a bit of a new feel I am glad to say that it hasn't become an issue. The ratio is below 1.6/hole so I am definitely holding below that criteria. Several guy commented on the grip and asked questions about the Max and other options and how they compare with otters offerings. I am planning to bring the Ultimate and the Quad with me to the course the next couple of rounds to introduce them and get comments. I have a tournament round Saturday with a 1x/month group I play with that includes some of the guys from my Tuesday evening league so there will be an opportunity to cross pollinate comments between two related groups. I'll let you all know what feedback I get. Hit 'em straight and long. edingc, StrokerAce and Blueberry_Squishie 3 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry_Squishie Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 I got my Max installed on my putter and from some practice strokes it seems promising. Elaboration to come. Subdiver1 1 Quote Cobra F9 9.5° (Hzrdus Yellow X) Cobra Speedzone 15° (Tensei Blue X) Srixon H85 19° (Hzrdus Black 85 6.0) Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-PW (KBS $ Taper 120S) Mizuno T20 51°, 55°, 59° (KBS $ Taper 120S) Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 34" Srixon ZStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 I got a chance to do a little testing of the Max at the practice green at driving range, I spend entirely too much time at, this afternoon. I measured distances of 5’, 10, & 20’, then marked those spots with tees. I chose an area of the green that allowed for straight putts. I took six putts from each distance with the following results: From 5’ I made 2 and left the other four within tap-in range. From 10’ Again, I made 2 and left the other 4 within tap-in range. From 20’ I made 1, left 3 within tap-in range, and 2 were within 3’. Granted those 3 footers can be knee-knockers at times, but overall I’m okay with the results from 20’. Early in my “getting to know you” period with the Max I was struggling a bit. A closer look determined that my grip wasn’t right. I was holding it as such: I wasn’t comfortable or confident with this grip, and it showed as my putts were either pushed or pulled, too short or too long. I messed around a bit with a claw, but that, for me, has never felt natural. I tried lowering my trail hand down the grip a bit, so it looks like this: Funny a little change of hand position has made a significant difference. As evidenced, above in the 5’ & 10’, my misses were line related rather than speed, there were no egregious pushes or pulls either. I plan to play a round with the Max this weekend, so I’ll have some more data to add to what I collected on the Ultimate Rossie from last weekend. Also, there is one point separating the top two competitors in the Basement Putting Mat Shooutout. Subdiver1 1 Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Max testing at the range, part deux. I took my caddie with me to the range this evening. Shown here helping me measure out the tees for another round of 5’, 10’, 20’. She also assisted with the following: IMG_0624.mov Tonight, the putts from 5’ were pouring in and I finished 7/10 with 3 tap-ins remaining. IMG_0627.mov IMG_0628.mov From 10’, I managed to hole 2 of the 10, with the rest nestling fairly close to the hole. IMG_0631.mov IMG_0632.mov My intention with these 20’ putts (frankly, any 20’ putt) was to lag close and if any fall, that’s a bonus. This go round, 1 fell and the rest were close enough to feel pretty good about completing the 2 putt. I hope to get out this weekend for some on course testing of the Max, but the more I use it, the more comfortable I find the position it has my hands in. The other 2 grips have their work cut out to win this competition. Subdiver1, Siamese Moose and Caddie1966 3 Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 7:45 PM, Ben Joest said: Early in my “getting to know you” period with the Max I was struggling a bit. A closer look determined that my grip wasn’t right. Funny, I had the same issue. Once I put the OEM Evnroll grip back on my primary putter and was able to work between the two of them I was able to make a grip adjustment that seems to work pretty nicely as well. What was your success rate from those distances with your original gamer in comparison? Cheers. Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said: Funny, I had the same issue. Once I put the OEM Evnroll grip back on my primary putter and was able to work between the two of them I was able to make a grip adjustment that seems to work pretty nicely as well. What was your success rate from those distances with your original gamer in comparison? Cheers. Admittedly, in my enthusiasm to get the Max installed, i didn't think to get baseline numbers from the super stroke/ER7v using the same parameters. I will use the putt numbers from the rounds I have played with that setup thus far this season for a comparison to the Max in the rounds I can get in prior to the review being due. Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, Ben Joest said: Admittedly, in my enthusiasm to get the Max installed, i didn't think to get baseline numbers from the super stroke/ER7v using the same parameters. I will use the putt numbers from the rounds I have played with that setup thus far this season for a comparison to the Max in the rounds I can get in prior to the review being due. That was kind of what drove me to buy a 2nd ER2, so I could do a side-by-side comparison. I think having the ability to actively use what I have been and compare the new grip is beneficial, if not a tad expensive; but it allowed me to figure out an issue similar to what you experienced. And to use live numbers vs. historical data. Not that historical data isn't valid, just looking to capture snapshot to snapshot vs. comparing current for to months or years of mixed play. Regardless, seems like you are having a pretty good experience. Which grip did you originally have on your Evnroll and was that your gamer? Caddie1966 1 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Subdiver1 said: That was kind of what drove me to buy a 2nd ER2, so I could do a side-by-side comparison. I think having the ability to actively use what I have been and compare the new grip is beneficial, if not a tad expensive; but it allowed me to figure out an issue similar to what you experienced. And to use live numbers vs. historical data. Not that historical data isn't valid, just looking to capture snapshot to snapshot vs. comparing current for to months or years of mixed play. Regardless, seems like you are having a pretty good experience. Which grip did you originally have on your Evnroll and was that your gamer? I think your approach is solid and should make for compelling content in the review. It came with the OEM gravity grip, but I never took to it and replaced it with a super stroke flatso 2.0 about a month after I bought it. I’ve been using some variation on super stroke on my putters since 2010 or so Subdiver1 and Caddie1966 2 Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ben Joest said: I think your approach is solid and should make for compelling content in the review. It came with the OEM gravity grip, but I never took to it and replaced it with a super stroke flatso 2.0 about a month after I bought it. I’ve been using some variation on super stroke on my putters since 2010 or so Thanks for the responses and conversation Obviously from my early pics I have an older Evnroll grip. I like the grip and the putter, but I always wondered how the gravity would compare. The pistol grip on my old BJ-1 was a little thin to keep my hands from rolling over, but I putted really well with it, until I didn't, and the Evnroll grip really put my hands where they work well through the stroke. Honestly I haven't wanted to mess with it too much until this opportunity since everything was pretty good. Add to that, that I cannot really think of any 3-putts that are due the club and not to me failing to stay focused on making the preceding shot, or the recovery from "stupid;" so I have always paused at making an equipment change to fix me acting a moron. Aside form all of that, it is still relatively early here and I have a late tee time tomorrow (1230), what is your excuse Caddie1966 1 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 (edited) I owe an update, apologies for the delay in case anyone was really looking for it. Played a "Better 'n' Better" round this weekend; that consists of the same 9-holes played 2x, taking your best 9 and your best scores for each hole to make up the 2nd 9. The first 9 was a bit of a roller coaster including 19 putts (one 3-putt that was a complete knucklehead move); the 2nd 9 was 15 putts. The greens on this course are challenging; in part because I rarely ever play there, and in part because they are quick and domed. Running a ball by the hole typically meant running to the next county to get your ball . Bottom line as it relates to the Garsen Max grip, still happy with the feel and performance using this grip. Though I had one 3-putt it had nothing to do with the putter (the club or the moron operating the club) and everything to do with not paying attention; still below 1.8 Putts per Round (PPR) and I will score this 0 3-putts for the Garsen (1 3-putt for my stats ) I got out to the practice green and was able to get 18 holes in this evening. Started with some practice and some drills. I took both ER2s out again and played 15 putts for each club along a fairly straight run as follows 1 ball from 5ft, 2 balls from 10ft, 3 balls from 15ft, 4 balls from 20ft then 5 balls from 25ft (see pics). Stats were as follows: 5 ft 10 ft. 15 ft. 20 ft. 25 ft Evnroll ER2 with OEM Grip: 1:1. 2:2. 0:3. 1:4. 1:5 Evnroll ER2 with Garsen Max grip: 1:1. 1:2. 0:3 1:4. 1:5 So, I suck from 15 feet. But otherwise... The evening round I played 6 holes early and compared putters. I putted everything with both putters. I had one more putt with the OEM grip than with the Max grip and had 30 putts overall. Not a great endorsement, but no 3-putts and all but a one or two second putts were within the leather. So, I am liking the feel and looking forward to the tournament round this weekend and I will be using this grip. After that it will be time to putt the Quad and the Ultimate into comparison. Have a great week folks. Edited May 24, 2023 by Subdiver1 Added photos Caddie1966 and GolfSpy_BEN 2 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddie1966 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Below is my Garsen MAX install pic and results from my indoor testing. I did a baseline baseline with the OEM Odyssey EXO7 grip and the comparison after the Garsen MAX was installed: 60 putts each from 5 feet and 8 feet. A total of 240 putts. My methodology for indoor testing was the following: 10 putts each session. 5 from 5 feet and 5 from 8 feet in each test cycle over 12 sessions with each configuration; Odyssey EXO7 OEM grip vs. Garsen MAX. I separated these into different sessions as I wanted to limit any stroke of the day bias. I completed 40 putts in a day, 3 days for the Odyssey and 3 days for the Garsen MAX. I used a perfect putter “cup” and my 9 foot Golf Mat 3.0 putting mat which measures 95 inches from target to target on each end and has 24, 47 and 71 inches marked off. I used 95 inches for my 8 foot metric and added 13 inches to the 47 inch mark for my 5 foot start spot. All putts were “straight” putts. My statistics were: OEM Odyssey EXO 7 Grip: 5 feet 8 feet Make 40/60 67% 25/60 42% Misses Left 15/60 25% 22/60 37% Right 5/60 8% 8/60 13% Short 0/60 0% 5/60 8% Garsen MAX Grip: 5 Feet 8 Feet Make 54/60 90% 40/60 67% Misses Left 1/60 2% 12/60 20% Right 5/60 8% 8/60 13% Short 0/60 0% 0/60 0% Makes we’re defined as any putt hitting the white perfect putter hole and either staying on the equipment or rolling straight back toward me less than a foot after hitting the white “cup” of the perfect putter hole. Misses were defined as any putt that finished on either side of the perfect putter even if the ball hit the white “cup” or rolled back two me outside the diameter of the “cup”. Short misses are self explanatory. Results were eye opening to say the least. My make rate on 5 foot putts went from 67% to 90% with the Garsen MAX grip. My 8 foot putt make rate went from 42% to 67%. My left misses on 5 footers dropped from 25% to 2% and on 8 footers dropped from 37% using the Odyssey grip to 20% using the Garsen MAX. Right misses remained the same with both grips at 8% from 5 feet and 13% from 8 feet. I had zero short putts using the Garsen MAX from both distances and zero from 5 feet using the Odyssey, but 8% short using Odyssey from 8 feet. Having been a conventional grip user my entire golfing career, now some 58 years, I have always been a bit of a wristy putter. I don’t jab on purpose, but I do jab putts, with my Odyssey and have a tendency to pull putts or leave them short. My test results confirmed that with my OEM grip. The Garsen MAX requires me to modify my grip so I hold it by the sides of the grip more. This grip modification resulted in reducing my wrist action to nearly zero. I am just blown away by the way the Garsen MAX has taken the wrists out of my stroke. I am also a bit more upright as a result of that grip change and that reduces the amount I am twisting the face taking the putter back, resulting in a much more consistent through stroke. My next update will include practice green test results and playing results. I have the results from my last 3 rounds with my Odyssey grip detailed and will update my results when I have my three rounds completed with the Garsen MAX in my bag. Subdiver1 and GolfSpy_BEN 2 Quote 917D2 driver 3 wood TS2 19 degree and 21 degree hybrids 0211 5-GW irons Glide 56 and 60 degree wedges EXO7 putter MAX grip Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Quick update: With the completion of tonight’s round of the Basement Putting Mat Shootout we have reached the midpoint in the competition. The participants have rounded into form, as evidenced by tonight’s tally. With 14 nights down and 14 to go, the leaderboard looks as follows: Ultimate Rossie - 230 points Quad Tour Scotty - 230 points Max Evnroll - 225 points This shootout has been neck and neck with none of the competitors able to pull away from the pack. Be sure to tune into the final review, you won’t want to miss the finish on this barn burner! Subdiver1 and Caddie1966 1 1 Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddie1966 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 59 minutes ago, Ben Joest said: Quick update: With the completion of tonight’s round of the Basement Putting Mat Shootout we have reached the midpoint in the competition. The participants have rounded into form, as evidenced by tonight’s tally. With 14 nights down and 14 to go, the leaderboard looks as follows: Ultimate Rossie - 230 points Quad Tour Scotty - 230 points Max Evnroll - 225 points This shootout has been neck and neck with none of the competitors able to pull away from the pack. Be sure to tune into the final review, you won’t want to miss the finish on this barn burner! How do the dead bugs, shoulder rolls and planks fit into the competition? GolfSpy_BEN and Subdiver1 1 1 Quote 917D2 driver 3 wood TS2 19 degree and 21 degree hybrids 0211 5-GW irons Glide 56 and 60 degree wedges EXO7 putter MAX grip Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BEN Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Caddie1966 said: How do the dead bugs, shoulder rolls and planks fit into the competition? It’s a rather punitive system of punishments for mishit putts… If that were true, I might be in better shape by now. The workout space in our basement is adjacent to the area I have set up shop for my indoor practice area, so I burrowed some space on the whiteboard my wife uses to map out her workouts. Subdiver1 1 Quote WITB: D: TBD ??? 3w: Paradym 15° Hzrdus 6.0 3h: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff 4u: T200 Utility Build 24° Hzrdus 6.0 5i: T200 25° Recoil 110 f4 6i-PW: Z 765 28°-46° N.S Pro 1050 gh S 50°: SM-8 54° & 58°: Glide Forged Pro P: Toulon Designs Atlanta Ball: Chrome Tour X Bag: Jones Trouper R stand bag "And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald ” The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.” - Frost "That you are here—that life exists and identity, That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 On 5/19/2023 at 7:53 PM, Ben Joest said: the more I use it, the more comfortable I find the position it has my hands in. The other 2 grips have their work cut out to win this competition. Concur. For me this is kind of like when I swapped from the Callaway BJ-1 to the ER2 and had to get used to the Evnroll grip; it didn't take long, but a lot like finding a good cheek weld on a butt stock or the spot on your cheek & chin for your thumb in a bow draw, I did have to find the spot and hit it a few times before it became natural. Now I really don't have to think about it with the Evnroll grip, unless I am having issues putting, but with the Max I am pretty much there, I still check it to be sure, but it is almost second nature at this point. Thanks. GolfSpy_BEN 1 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Caddie1966 said: Results were eye opening to say the least. That is some huge improvement. I'll be interested in seeing if you continue to see the same improvement long term; that would be great. Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Ben Joest said: It’s a rather punitive system of punishments for mishit putts Those dead bugs can be a pretty good workout when done correctly. People underestimate them. And planks are, or should be, a "core" exercise to any good fitness program, especially for a golfer (pun somewhat intended). GolfSpy_BEN 1 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddie1966 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 17 hours ago, Caddie1966 said: How do the dead bugs, shoulder rolls and planks fit into the competition? Well at least she let you share the white board. That’s a sign of a good marriage Subdiver1 and GolfSpy_BEN 2 Quote 917D2 driver 3 wood TS2 19 degree and 21 degree hybrids 0211 5-GW irons Glide 56 and 60 degree wedges EXO7 putter MAX grip Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddie1966 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 23 hours ago, Subdiver1 said: That is some huge improvement. I'll be interested in seeing if you continue to see the same improvement long term; that would be great. 7 hours ago, Caddie1966 said: Well at least she let you share the white board. That’s a sign of a good marriage Played my first round with the MAX installed today. 28 putts when I have been averaging 32.1. The grip forces my hands apart and I have discovered that if I press my right ( trail) thumb into the side of the grip slightly just barely touching the ridge line, my right hand is so much more consistent so I have a much truer roll and it’s then all about pace and line. I had 3 18-20 footers finish within 3 inches of the hole and zero short putts so it translated to the course today. y GolfSpy_BEN and Subdiver1 2 Quote 917D2 driver 3 wood TS2 19 degree and 21 degree hybrids 0211 5-GW irons Glide 56 and 60 degree wedges EXO7 putter MAX grip Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry_Squishie Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 Played my first on-course round with the Max installed. Didn't take any photos because it's the Saturday competition and you don't want to be doing anything seen to be slowing play. Plus I'm there to socialise. Some notes: Was starting my ball on line on every putt. Didn't miss inside 3 metres for the day and wouldn't have missed a putt (left-right) by more than 10cm. The grip is now 0/1 on eagle putts but I left a tap-in birdie. One of the guys I played with had a go after the round and subsequently ordered one online. He struggles with starting his ball on line and adjusts a lot with his hands mid-stroke. Garsen marketing - add 1 to the sales generated by this test. On the whole, I am still very satisfied with how the grip is performing. Subdiver1, GolfSpy_BEN and cnosil 3 Quote Cobra F9 9.5° (Hzrdus Yellow X) Cobra Speedzone 15° (Tensei Blue X) Srixon H85 19° (Hzrdus Black 85 6.0) Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-PW (KBS $ Taper 120S) Mizuno T20 51°, 55°, 59° (KBS $ Taper 120S) Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 34" Srixon ZStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdiver1 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 I am starting to put together a final review of my experience with the Max, but I want to squeeze in a couple of more rounds before I make any final decisions. zAt the moment I am leaning toward "Keeping it in the Bag." Saturday's tournament round was an abysmal mess (other than hole 17). I had 30 putts, with one 3-putt (which was a <1ft, bonehead, didn't take my time, NEVER should have been missed, debacle - I am sincerely happy there wasn't an operating wood chipper nearby or I might have tried to put my head inside to see if I could hear any advice about how to fix my game ). So, aside from that silliness, I am still averaging under 1.8 putts per hole and the two 3-putts that I have had using the Max had nothing to do with bad putting and everything to do with pure . I'm liking the feel more as I get used to the grip and the new putter. One thing I do want to do is swap to the silver ER2 that I have been playing with for several years and see how that works out in comparison. I am not sure how much I really like the black head on the new ER2, BUT it was pointed out Saturday that the black head and white line are much more easy to see and contrast to the ball and green than the silver head and white line of my original. So, going to squeeze an early round in tomorrow and then swap the grip and try to get some testing and a couple of rounds in with the alternate set-up. Results to follow. Have a great Memorial day folks, please take a moment this weekend to remember our brothers and sisters who have worn, and those who still do, wear the uniform. Hoo-yah! GolfSpy_BEN and cnosil 2 Quote Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6 Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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