Have you ever played a course with an "unplayable" hole location?

[StrokerAce]

We've all been there and said something similar to - "the greenskeeper must not have had a good night's sleep!" when we see holes on slopes that seem impossible.

Some of it is us (okay, maybe a lot of it?) but in other cases you are either in the hole or well past it. Nothing like hitting a good putt and not being compensated for it.

but this, in an NCAA tournament championship - is absolutely unacceptable - so bad they actually had to cancel the round! and you can't blame it on the course; the NCAA sets the pin locations.

have you ever played a round with a hole like this? I'd love to blame my poor putting on something like this but I've never had anything this bad.

 

[tony@CIC]

Had one at our club up north a couple of years back on a par 3 with a steeply sloped green. We were playing in men's league the day after the regional qualifier for the US Open. The greenskeeper had cut the hole on the steepest part of the downhill portion of the green. Needless to say the Pro got an earful from all of the men's league players. The hole was recut that afternoon. 

[DiscipleofPenick]

I actually asked my pro about this. And the truth is very rarely is a 'unplayable' or bad/tough pin position done on purpose. Yes, there are times when the head greenskeeper decides to set tough pin placements due to a tournament or an outing. And the clubs I worked at had their 'Sunday pins' which were usually tougher on most holes. Especially at public courses the guy cutting the pins isn't a golfer and just has a list of where to move them from the greenskeeper. That guy is just told 'front left' or 'middle back' and picks a spot and changes the hole. They're just trying to get around the course as fast as they can. They're not paying attention and don't really care.

[vandyland]

We had one in the member guest this past week. A shortish, straight par 4 (360 yds) with an elevated and severely sloped (back to front) green. Normally it is the 10th most difficult hole on the course by handicap rating. Pin was front left and if you were above the hole it had the hit the hole or it would run 12 feet past. Literally, we dropped a ball from knee height straight down on the putting surface 10 ft above the hole and it rolled out to 13 ft past the hole. Then, on your uphill putt, if you leave it short it will likely roll back 2-3 feet. The scoring average on that par 4 was 6.2 and EVERYONE was complaining about it. It played as the hardest hole on the course (relative to par) for the field by 0.98 shots. So a full stroke harder than any other hole on the course for no reason other than the green. It was ridiculous. 

I have also seen holes cut into the side of slopes, holes cut 4 paces from a green's edge into a 15 foot deep bunker. I generally refer to these as "unpinnable" locations. 

[THEZIPR23]

2 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I actually asked my pro about this. And the truth is very rarely is a 'unplayable' or bad/tough pin position done on purpose. Yes, there are times when the head greenskeeper decides to set tough pin placements due to a tournament or an outing. And the clubs I worked at had their 'Sunday pins' which were usually tougher on most holes. Especially at public courses the guy cutting the pins isn't a golfer and just has a list of where to move them from the greenskeeper. That guy is just told 'front left' or 'middle back' and picks a spot and changes the hole. They're just trying to get around the course as fast as they can. They're not paying attention and don't really care.

This is true for regular play.

I am not sure how the NCAA picked this location. I have played in many tournaments where the holes are set by tournament committee or head pro and there is almost always at least 1 very questionable location. Trying to setup the course difficult is usually a recipe for disaster.

The only thing I could think of in the above example is that the greens were cut a lot faster the day of the tournament than when the locations were picked. However it is still unacceptable as the committee should verify that the course is set up properly and adjust accordingly. 

[DiscipleofPenick]

2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

This is true for regular play.

I am not sure how the NCAA picked this location. I have played in many tournaments where the holes are set by tournament committee or head pro and there is almost always at least 1 very questionable location. Trying to setup the course difficult is usually a recipe for disaster.

The only thing I could think of in the above example is that the greens were cut a lot faster the day of the tournament than when the locations were picked. However it is still unacceptable as the committee should verify that the course is set up properly and adjust accordingly. 

Yes I have too. I've been in local AMs and tournaments run by our USGA chapter. Ususally, when they set a tough pin, it'll be right over a bunker or very close to a ridge so you have to work the ball in to get it in to have a birdie chance. But generally they are at least on flat spots.

[Siamese Moose]

The first time I experienced this was on a regularly used position on the front of the green, but the front had died, so it probably stimped over 20. This was in my league, and the commish made a rule for the day of two putts for everyone. 

The other time was cut on a slope dividing the front and back of 18. The pro (who knew me) watched me 5 putt, then asked what happened. I told him the position was unputtable. He got very red in the face, and said "G.. D......, I told him to cut all of the holes in the middle!", and stormed off. The other guy there was stifling a laugh. Turns out they were having an outing in a few hours notorious for bad golfers, and he wanted the pins all in easy spots. The newbie cutting holes took "...in the middle of every green..." very literally. 

[Hook DeLoft]

I answered yes, but only during “Superintendent’s Revenge” tournaments. 

[Tsecor]

Golf is supposed to be hard, challenging and impossible to master....unless there are wild boars and a sasquatch guarding the hole, nothing is "unplayable". Many golfers are divas

[russtopherb]

Played a par 3 with the hole cut on the very back of the elevated green that was already on the downslope. If you landed short on the green, you had basically had to hole the putt, because anything on either side of the cup was rolling right off the back and down the slope. If you went long, you had to pray you holed out your chip. We all took bogey and moved on. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Not unplayable, but 20 out of 10 for difficulty. 

Mainly just greens were way too quick and while a slower green would have been fine this made it truly as difficult as it could possibly be. 

[Kwoodfield]

They do it at my course almost regularly. I don’t know if it’s intentional or just ignorance. But they cut the hole on a par 3 right on the crest of a ridge. You miss left you go 10 feet left. You miss right, you end up 10ft. If you are beneath it and don’t hole it you are 10ft going back up the hill for the same putt you just had. 

[Duxman130]

one of the muni's I sometimes play at cuts pins anywhere. sometimes less than 18" from the fringe, steep downhill locations, sometimes dead center of the green.

come to find out the guy who cuts the pins never played golf.  clueless.

[Tallwood88]

We've all played some holes where it was more like "carnival" golf. If you got it in the hole, you were very fortunate. If you missed it, it came all the way back down and maybe beyond. Unplayable? No, but darn close. 

[rjacobs4]

Yep…just yesterday!  On what already was a tough green with multiple elevation changes, they set the pin on a side slope.  It was so bad that my partner hit a putt that came to what we thought was a stop just outside the hole but then it moved and ended up rolling 12 feet down the hill.  
 

His second putt was just short and came back.

I had a side hill putt with similar results.  One of our opponents was also above the hole but made his putt for birdie (grrrr…).  Barely touched it and if meandered it’s way into the hole.

All agreed, including birdie man, that it was a completely unfair/unplayable pun position.   
 

I realize the pins may be set by the crew but my belief is they should be checked by the head greenskeeper unless or until he has complete faith in his pinsetter.   

 

[KM144]

I belong to a semi-private golf club, it’s a tight course with postage stamp greens. For the past year between 6-10 pins have been placed on slopes where the ball will not stop within 5 feet of the hole when they cut the greens. This is causing some seriously long rounds and the members are starting to complain. One of the guys I play with is friends with one of the guys in the grounds staff. According to him they do it intentionally because they enjoy watching golfers struggle on the greens. It’s gotten so bad the head pro has been telling the head greenskeeper to only put pins in reasonable spots. That only made it worse. 

[StrokerAce]

23 minutes ago, KM144 said:

This is causing some seriously long rounds and the members are starting to complain. 

Great point here. 
People complain about golf taking too long but when the course forces people to 3 and 4 putt with impossible hole locations they are making the problem worse.

I'm not saying it should be easy but a good putt should be rewarded and not punished...

[Zivl3]

I've only played Pasatiempo (Santa Cruz, CA) once.  That was about 15 years ago.  The round was memorable for how much that course screwed with my head.  By the time I got to the last green my mind was beat into a quivering lump of sludge.  But, I remember thinking that there wasn't anywhere on the 18th green that would have been a straightforward putt.  Any putt that didn't hole out would run off the front of the green.  As I get older, my memory of that green just gets more and more severe.  I'm emotionally crippled...

[mackdaddy]

I played a lot at a course that has now closed.  General's Ridge was a well named.  They had a par five that had a drive down to the water then a long uphill carry to a severely slopped green.  It was two teres.  The course had a sign up on the hill behind the green when I first began playing there that said "Three Putt Max local rule!"  I saw many putts struck uphill to hard that then curled around the cup and fell back to jump into the bunker.  There were two good hole areas, one on the top shelf and one on the bottom right front.  The way we played it was to blast it to the green and make par after 3 putts.  Missing the green meant boggy.  

[poprocksncoke]

Played in a ProAm that had a similar put as this.  Pin was placed at the top of a hill and ball would just keep rolling back to you if you missed the hole.

Watched a guy 8 put 

[chisag]

... Back in 2022 the Senior League at my course decided to do something "fun"   for their year end Championship. They would move up from the normal tees to the forward tees but put every pin in the most difficult locations. And yes, more than a few were impossible where they were on severe slopes and the only way to stop the ball was dropping in the hole. We had the first twilite time and were warned by the starter the rounds were taking a little over 5.5 hours from the most forward tees! To be fair every green did not have an impossible pin location because there isn't enough slope, so they put those 6" from the fringe next to bunkers. Absolutely the least enjoyable round of golf I have ever played and later we found out they instituted a 3 putt limit on the back 9 after taking a little over 3 hours to play the front 9. 

[StrokerAce]

13 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Back in 2022 the Senior League at my course decided to do something "fun"   for their year end Championship. They would move up from the normal tees to the forward tees but put every pin in the most difficult locations. And yes, more than a few were impossible where they were on severe slopes and the only way to stop the ball was dropping in the hole. We had the first twilite time and were warned by the starter the rounds were taking a little over 5.5 hours from the most forward tees! To be fair every green did not have an impossible pin location because there isn't enough slope, so they put those 6" from the fringe next to bunkers. Absolutely the least enjoyable round of golf I have ever played and later we found out they instituted a 3 putt limit on the back 9 after taking a little over 3 hours to play the front 9. 

I wonder who decided that would be "fun" ??? 

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

I wonder who decided that would be "fun" ??? 

 

... Right? Whoever it was, they were told they can't ever dictate pin placements again. 

[roland49]

Yes, there are a few courses here in Myrtle Beach area that have greens with quite a bit of slope/hills. So, that the pins placement can make it difficult to make a putt of over 2 - 3 feet. It's not only that pins may be placed at the top of side of a hill, but also, because of the mounds on the green longer distance putts are difficult to manage. One course has very fast greens making three putts a common event.

 

[Dweed]

There's a short par 4 on the course our league plays at which league local rule states max  of 3 putts attempted before allowed auto pick up to prevent slow play.  Small green, 1200 sq ft horizontal oval. Upper edge drops 8 feet to lower edge. Pure luck to sink one.

 

[WillRowland]

it is my understanding that any hole cut on the “green” is legal as per the USGA. Therefore there are no “unplayable holes” on the green.  Some hole placements may be more difficult than others.  But that’s the “rub of the green”.  Yes, I have putted off the green, and yes I have 5 putted.  But when I curse the superintendent I have to remember that he is a golfer also.  Everybody gets to suffer.  

[Shapotomous]

I have run into many unplayable hole locations over the years.  Usually it happens to me in late afternoon rounds when a baked out green is running faster than when they cut the hole in the morning. Lots of uphill putts coming back to my feet.  Horsham Valley was famous for this when it was still around.

The USGA generally has this happen during the US Open.  It amazes me how many apologies they have issued over the years for this.  I remember Nicklaus had an uphill putt come back to him at one and they then had a guy with a hose watering between groups, I think it was Olympic Club.  They do the watering trick quite a bit.

[Shapotomous]

25 minutes ago, William Rowland said:

it is my understanding that any hole cut on the “green” is legal as per the USGA. 

I thought there are rules on how close to the edge of the green the hole can be cut.  But maybe those are "guidelines" and not "rules".

[RoverRick]

Several years ago, while sitting in the bar at the country club watching the US Open where everyone was talking about how unplayable the course was, our course superintendent said, “Give me 2 weeks and plenty of water, and I can make this course ‘unplayable’.”  
 

Challenge accepted. 
 

So now every year we have a tournament called “Huck’s Revenge.” It has progressed into some silly stuff, but it is a fun tournament. The pin locations are absolutely brutal. Several will be located just a foot or so from the edge of the green. Any green with a severe slope on it will have the hole located on the slope.

One year on a par 3 the hole was located about 8’ from the green, on a hill in deep rough. Just a little 3’ diameter mowed section with a pin in it. 
 

Another year the flag was located in a practice mat in the bunker. 
 

I often hear golfers saying “That’s an illegal pin placement.” However, there are no strict rules about pin locations. Just guidance. 

[Caddie1966]

I’ve played many with unputtable greens.  The club I belonged to from 2012-2019 included 36.  One was the only course Hogan ever designed.  The first hole had a double dog leg par 5 and the front 3rd was unputtable.  You couldn’t stop the ball unless it dropped in the hole if you were above the hole.  If you were below, there was a risk of the ball coming back to you.  
Pete Dye was brought back in the 80s to redesign the 2nd green on a course I played often near Ann Arbor Michigan as the green was unputtable.