Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The short game is far and away my favorite part of golf, and I thought I'd open up a thread to discuss it. Here are some questions that you can answer to start things off: How many different shots do you have inside of 50 yards? What technique do you use to play those shots? What determines the kind of shot you play around the green? What clubs do you use inside of 50 yards, and what impacts your club selection? What do you like to see the ball do when it hits the green (do you like to get it rolling ASAP, throw it all the way to the hole, etc)? Feel free to add other questions as the discussion goes along. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'll try to answer all of my original questions: How many different shots do you have inside of 50 yards? I play a waist high shot with my 56 for 50 yards, and the same shot with my 60 goes 40 yards. Around the green, I play pretty basic chips and pitches. I open the face pretty rarely, the situation needs to be just right. What technique do you use to play those shots? My waist high shots are a bit unusual. I try keep the face square to the target the entire way back. I keep my weight forward the entire time, no shift. Chips - weight forward, hands forward and firm, ball in the middle of my stance Pitches - similar to a chip, just with a bit more speed and loft If I open the face up, I really focus on keep my weight forward and my head down through impact. What determines the kind of shot you play around the green? Pin position & how much green I have to work with The way the ball is lying has a big impact on how aggressive I am with the shot. If it is sitting down at all, or sitting on hard pan, I'm very likely to play a safe little chip or pitch. What clubs do you use inside of 50 yards, and what impacts your club selection? For pitches, I use the 60* almost exclusively. Chips are usually my PW. In the sand, it's my 56*. I stick to this recipe pretty religiously unless 1) a chip has to run a really long way or the sand is such that I want a low bounce wedge What do you like to see the ball do when it hits the green (do you like to get it rolling ASAP, throw it all the way to the hole, etc)? On my waist high shots, I like to see once bounce once and stop. On virtually all other shots, I play the ball to roll out. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The short game is far and away my favorite part of golf, and I thought I'd open up a thread to discuss it. Here are some questions that you can answer to start things off: How many different shots do you have inside of 50 yards? What technique do you use to play those shots? What determines the kind of shot you play around the green? What clubs do you use inside of 50 yards, and what impacts your club selection? What do you like to see the ball do when it hits the green (do you like to get it rolling ASAP, throw it all the way to the hole, etc)? Feel free to add other questions as the discussion goes along. I am far from an expert, but i will kick things off. from 35-90 yards, I have one type of a "pet" shot that I like to play which is a dead arm pitch. Pelz talks about this extensively in his book The Short Game Bible. Works really well for someone who hates to practice. Around the green, I prefer to chip as much as possible, with as low a lofted club as possible. I want the ball rolling most of the way to the hole. Obviously, lie and obstacles determine what shots i have to play. I will use anything from 60* to hybrid depending on the shot. Lie pretty much dictates the club I choose I want the ball to hit and run. I am too old to play that cool two hit and stop chip all the kids play today.. not enough nerve. Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 The short game is far and away my favorite part of golf, and I thought I'd open up a thread to discuss it. Here are some questions that you can answer to start things off: How many different shots do you have inside of 50 yards? What technique do you use to play those shots? What determines the kind of shot you play around the green? What clubs do you use inside of 50 yards, and what impacts your club selection? What do you like to see the ball do when it hits the green (do you like to get it rolling ASAP, throw it all the way to the hole, etc)? Feel free to add other questions as the discussion goes along. Inside of 50 I have really tried to keep it simple. If I have to go over something, I hit weak 55*. Trying to learn to open it an flop for that 10 yard up and down, but it is not there. Nothing in front to clear, I chip. Methods get a bit tangled here as do the clubs. Short carry, limited roll 55* and as the carry/roll numbers change i may drop to PW or 9 on occasions. Working on the 7i and hybrid with a putter stroke from the edge. Improving here. No clue how the guys can open the face, take a full swing and have the ball go 5 feet, landing softly. Seeing guys do this on the chipping green scares the snot out of me every time. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyfedora Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 How many different shots do you have inside of 50 yards? I have 4 shots. 1. Half 58° 2. 75° punch with 58° 3. Low 52 with a big cut. 4. Slinging 52 punch with a lot of top spin for when I am behind a tree. What technique do you use to play those shots? 1. I take it back just above my hip. 2. I put it in the back of my stance and I lead with my legs. It is a low trajectory, high spinning shot. 3. Same as a punch but with a cut swing. I take it back between my knee and hip and accelerate through. 4. Back of stance and I roll my hands over fast. What determines the kind of shot you play around the green? The lie. If I have a lot of carry. If I am short sided. If I want to use the slopes. What clubs do you use inside of 50 yards, and what impacts your club selection? 52 and mostly 58. and sometimes What do you like to see the ball do when it hits the green (do you like to get it rolling ASAP, throw it all the way to the hole, etc)? Depends on the shot. I like to throw darts with my 58 and i roll out my 52. PING: Rapture V1 9° Aldila VS Proto 'By You' (65 Stiff) TITLEIST: 906F4 15.5° Aldila VS Proto 'By You' (80 Stiff) COBRA: 5w Speed LD F/ST Tour AD YS Designed by Graphite Design made for Cobra Stiff PING: S59 Rifle 6.5 Soft stepped PING: Tour 48°, 52°, 58° Byron SS Custom 006 Titelist Pro V 1 Ping hoofer Vantage "Everyday you miss practicing, it will take you one day longer to get good." -Ben Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Inside of 50 I have really tried to keep it simple. If I have to go over something, I hit weak 55*. Trying to learn to open it an flop for that 10 yard up and down, but it is not there. Nothing in front to clear, I chip. Methods get a bit tangled here as do the clubs. Short carry, limited roll 55* and as the carry/roll numbers change i may drop to PW or 9 on occasions. Working on the 7i and hybrid with a putter stroke from the edge. Improving here. No clue how the guys can open the face, take a full swing and have the ball go 5 feet, landing softly. Seeing guys do this on the chipping green scares the snot out of me every time. I like to hit that 5 foot shot...in practice. Unless I was in a match play situation where I was under the gun to get up and down, I would never pull it out on the course. I'll bladed too many and hit too many 6 inches for me to have real confidence in it. I do like to open it up about 45* to the target line and play a nice solid pitch when the situation calls for it, that's a shot I'm very confident in. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 I like to hit that 5 foot shot...in practice. Unless I was in a match play situation where I was under the gun to get up and down, I would never pull it out on the course. I'll bladed too many and hit too many 6 inches for me to have real confidence in it. I do like to open it up about 45* to the target line and play a nice solid pitch when the situation calls for it, that's a shot I'm very confident in. I have tried the 5 foot and it is usually 1" high and 50 yards long. Really I am just getting the hang of the aiming with the open face and how to address the ball correctly so that it flies at the target and not 45* right of target. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I am far from an expert, but i will kick things off. from 35-90 yards, I have one type of a "pet" shot that I like to play which is a dead arm pitch. Pelz talks about this extensively in his book The Short Game Bible. Works really well for someone who hates to practice. Around the green, I prefer to chip as much as possible, with as low a lofted club as possible. I want the ball rolling most of the way to the hole. Obviously, lie and obstacles determine what shots i have to play. I will use anything from 60* to hybrid depending on the shot. Lie pretty much dictates the club I choose I want the ball to hit and run. I am too old to play that cool two hit and stop chip all the kids play today.. not enough nerve. Can you describe the dead arm pitch a little bit? My memory of the Short Game Bible is a little fuzzy, mainly due to its being thicker than a phone book. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I have tried the 5 foot and it is usually 1" high and 50 yards long. Really I am just getting the hang of the aiming with the open face and how to address the ball correctly so that it flies at the target and not 45* right of target. Pelz has a good section in his book about this (I think I've seen it in magazines too). He recommends using some driveway markers or clubs and marking the line that your feet are on, and the line that your club face is pointing on. After you set up with those lines, hit the shot and see where the ball lands. If the ball lands 6' right of the target, then you know that you need to aim 6' right with that set up. If I butchered that and someone can explain it better, please do. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 Pelz has a good section in his book about this (I think I've seen it in magazines too). He recommends using some driveway markers or clubs and marking the line that your feet are on, and the line that your club face is pointing on. After you set up with those lines, hit the shot and see where the ball lands. If the ball lands 6' right of the target, then you know that you need to aim 6' right with that set up. If I butchered that and someone can explain it better, please do. That makes sense. We have some practice holes that you can rent by the hour and I spent two hours out there hitting open wedge shots to try and figure it out. Well away from bystanders. I have my pro tour orange sticks, so I can give what you say a try. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 That makes sense. We have some practice holes that you can rent by the hour and I spent two hours out there hitting open wedge shots to try and figure it out. Well away from bystanders. I have my pro tour orange sticks, so I can give what you say a try. Renting an entire hole would be pretty sweet. Is that connected with a course or a range? I think that would be a great way to practice those "high risk" wedge shots. I had the advantage of being able to walk out to a very nice practice green when it was empty, so I could practice those shots without endangering anyone. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 Renting an entire hole would be pretty sweet. Is that connected with a course or a range? I think that would be a great way to practice those "high risk" wedge shots. I had the advantage of being able to walk out to a very nice practice green when it was empty, so I could practice those shots without endangering anyone. They have three rotating par 3 holes really away from everything $10/hour. bring the shag bag and fire like a madman. this is where I plan on camping out with the 58/60 when it is time to master the demon Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Can you describe the dead arm pitch a little bit? My memory of the Short Game Bible is a little fuzzy, mainly due to its being thicker than a phone book. Just the clock swing. 7:30, 9:00, 10:30. with 4 wedges gives you 12 distinct distances inside 100 yards. Left forearm is the clock arm, make no real body turn, and don't hit at the ball. dead arm swing the club. and watch the ball go the same distance every time. It kills my buddies to see me bust out the bushnell inside 70yds, But I have to know EXACTLY!!! Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 They have three rotating par 3 holes really away from everything $10/hour. bring the shag bag and fire like a madman. this is where I plan on camping out with the 58/60 when it is time to master the demon Wow, at $10 per hour I'd be living on those par 3's. No better way to master the 60 than beating it into submission...well...maybe hypnosis, but that's another thread. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Just the clock swing. 7:30, 9:00, 10:30. with 4 wedges gives you 12 distinct distances inside 100 yards. Left forearm is the clock arm, make no real body turn, and don't hit at the ball. dead arm swing the club. and watch the ball go the same distance every time. It kills my buddies to see me bust out the bushnell inside 70yds, But I have to know EXACTLY!!! Hooray! I've finally found someone else who uses their laser inside 70 yards! I understand the swing you're talking about, I always just think of it as the clock swing. I like that method, except I just use waist high, knock down, and full swing; his increments are a little too fine for a lug like myself. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I hit every short game shot with my 60*. I have a couple different swings: My normal pitch is basically a small version of the SnT swing, so I try to keep my weight forward. I also have a flop shot, and short chips I put the ball way back in my stance and sort of putt the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Also, sand shots I use the 60* still, and I basically hit the flop shot, just I make sure to bottom out behind the ball. This combined with the club, makes it go nice and high with a lot of spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 I hit every short game shot with my 60*. I have a couple different swings: My normal pitch is basically a small version of the SnT swing, so I try to keep my weight forward. I also have a flop shot, and short chips I put the ball way back in my stance and sort of putt the ball. Also, sand shots I use the 60* still, and I basically hit the flop shot, just I make sure to bottom out behind the ball. This combined with the club, makes it go nice and high with a lot of spin. That explains why it is so well worn. So what kind of shots do you use the other wedge for? full only? Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 That explains why it is so well worn. So what kind of shots do you use the other wedge for? full only? I just use the 54* for full shots. I used to have a 56 instead but I changed it for the 54 so I could hit it perfectly 100 yards. The 54 gives me better yardage gaps betwwen wedges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 I just use the 54* for full shots. I used to have a 56 instead but I changed it for the 54 so I could hit it perfectly 100 yards. The 54 gives me better yardage gaps betwwen wedges. I am curious about the two wedge set-up. did it take long to get the right bounce for how you are playing them? 9* of bounce on your 60* for sand play impresses me. Granted I am terrible, but that low bounce in a trap seems like license to dig too deep. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I am curious about the two wedge set-up. did it take long to get the right bounce for how you are playing them? 9* of bounce on your 60* for sand play impresses me. Granted I am terrible, but that low bounce in a trap seems like license to dig too deep. When I started using my LW out of the sand it was because my SW had almost 20* of bounce, and I just couldn't get the the club under the ball enough to get it into the air. I started using my LW with 10* of bounce, and now I am just used to it. My sand game is on of my strong points too, so it isn't like the decision made my game worse, it made it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp4455 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The short game is far and away my favorite part of golf, and I thought I'd open up a thread to discuss it. Here are some questions that you can answer to start things off: How many different shots do you have inside of 50 yards? What technique do you use to play those shots? What determines the kind of shot you play around the green? What clubs do you use inside of 50 yards, and what impacts your club selection? What do you like to see the ball do when it hits the green (do you like to get it rolling ASAP, throw it all the way to the hole, etc)? Feel free to add other questions as the discussion goes along. I consider my short game excellent. Inside 50 yards I will use 60* wedge 99% of the time and maybe SW or putter the remaining 1%. I can hit all shots including high flops. What I choose to hit depends on course conditions, lie, speed and softness of greens etc. It's a feel thing and I don't waste any time thinking about it. I want to see the ball close to the hole. How it gets there will depend on the condition of the green. I will try to leave the ball under the hole and I will not spin the ball back. If I didn't have a short game I wouldn't have any game at all at my age. Semper Fi My Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 17, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 17, 2010 So Bob, under what situations do you go to the putter? Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsaternus Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I play simple running chips around the green whenever possible. If I have to go over something, I use a 56 or 60 and get pretty steep with my swing to create some spin and height. I'm trying out using better balls to get more spin around the green so the ball will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2Golf Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I will keep it on the ground whenever possible. That means if I have a reasonable shot of nudging a ball in close with my putter or hybrid then I will use them. Case in point, during one of my rounds towards the end of last season, I had air mailed the green and ended up a good 30 yards past the putting surface after my ball hit a sprinkler head. I had the option of lobbing the ball over a small tree or using my hybrid to hit a low runner under the limbs, into the bank and skidding the ball up to the hole. The green was fairly flat so I opted for the low runner. The bank took enough off of it and I ended up a few feet away from the pin where I managed to get up and down. For most other shots, I will use my sand wedge unless the lie is tight and then I will use my lob wedge. Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I will use putter from as far away as 60 yards. I was playing Pacific Dunes, and had 60 left to a front pin. The lie was so tight, that I was sure that if I tried to pitch it, it would end up badly. No way for me to judge a chip, because I never practice, so.... I putted it. Ended up 4 feet, and payed it off. Unsusal for me to make a putt, but it goes to show that there is no right way to do things. Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 19, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 19, 2010 I will use putter from as far away as 60 yards. I was playing Pacific Dunes, and had 60 left to a front pin. The lie was so tight, that I was sure that if I tried to pitch it, it would end up badly. No way for me to judge a chip, because I never practice, so.... I putted it. Ended up 4 feet, and payed it off. Unsusal for me to make a putt, but it goes to show that there is no right way to do things. Was this a fairway lie? Is this a situation where a hybrid as a putter would also be possible. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 19, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 19, 2010 I will keep it on the ground whenever possible. That means if I have a reasonable shot of nudging a ball in close with my putter or hybrid then I will use them. Case in point, during one of my rounds towards the end of last season, I had air mailed the green and ended up a good 30 yards past the putting surface after my ball hit a sprinkler head. I had the option of lobbing the ball over a small tree or using my hybrid to hit a low runner under the limbs, into the bank and skidding the ball up to the hole. The green was fairly flat so I opted for the low runner. The bank took enough off of it and I ended up a few feet away from the pin where I managed to get up and down. For most other shots, I will use my sand wedge unless the lie is tight and then I will use my lob wedge. Can you tell me about the swing? Putting stroke or just a swing with little wrist action or ? Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I have problems using my putter off of the fairway, so I'll usually chip, putting the ball way back in my stance and putting a hook swing on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 I am curious about the two wedge set-up. did it take long to get the right bounce for how you are playing them? 9* of bounce on your 60* for sand play impresses me. Granted I am terrible, but that low bounce in a trap seems like license to dig too deep. I have found that it's nice to have a variety of bounce options for different types of sand. The sand in the bunkers here in Myrtle does not work with high bounce, for me. I need the 4* bounce on my 60* to get under the ball. I have problems using my putter off of the fairway, so I'll usually chip, putting the ball way back in my stance and putting a hook swing on it. I'm the same way, I hate to putt from the fringe or fairway. I don't like to have the ball rolling except on the putting surface - too much unpredictability in rolling it elsewhere. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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