Where has etiquette gone?

[JBones]

Where has golf etiquette gone? Maybe it's because golf is appealing to a much wider range of individuals, maybe people were never taught golf course etiquette, or maybe people just don't give a damn. There have been three instances in the last two weeks, where I have just wanted to smack somebody upside the head. Our municipal courses around here, have only one attire rule....your shirt must have sleeves. There was a group of four drunk hillbillies that were playing in their tank tops, as soon as they got out of sight from the clubhouse. I'm the type of guy that dresses like I'm going to a country club, when I'm going to the range, so this really bugs me. Tuesday I was playing and we were putting when two guys in a cart pulled up, practically right on the green, and yelled "hey, did you find a wedge up here?", right in the middle of my putting stroke. Two holes later, the same guys were teeing off and a guy from the next fairway over hit one to the edge of their fairway; he was to his ball before they got to the tee box, yet they scream "FORE", right in the middle of his back swing. Finally, my cousin and I were playing last week and we caught up to a foursome on 12 and they would not let us play through. We were getting very frustrated, because they were horrible and we were playing good and had to wait on every shot. When we got to 15, we were steaming; we both split the fairway and had 130 in, the pin was on the far right, so when they were walking off (still on the green) we both hit and both stuck it inside 4'. All they did was stare us down as they all teed off on 16 and all missed the fairway, only hitting it about 180 off the tee. These are just examples from the last two weeks.

 

I think the USGA should learn from the Germans and start making people get a license to play. I really don't enjoy playing on the weekends anymore, because all the inconsiderate hillbillies are out. I'm not trying to sound like an elitist, I just love the game of golf and I play it the right way.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Had an interesting experience last year -- not with hillbillies, but with guys who looked the part of serious golfers. It's not that they were even bad golfers - they were just S-L-O-W!!! They were a foursome, we were a twosome caught up to them at the 6th hole and waited, and waited and waited.

 

Finally, at the turn, we asked if we could play through. The "alpha-dog" glared at me and in a voice usually reserved for dealing with someone else's spoiled child, said "if you think you need to, go ahead. We are members here, you know...."

 

Couldn't resist -- replied with "well, so am I. You have four and we have two - you could do the math."

 

We teed off. Both of us had just finished hitting our approach shots from the fairway when I hear a "thwack" from the tee box, followed by a ball landing about 20 feet away.

 

Sorry we held them up....

 

I guess it's not just beginners that don't get it. Heck, a beginner can be excused for simply not knowing ( but not from not learning!). These guys were regulars, but somehow felt it was an insult to their golfing sensibilities to allow a twosome to play through.

[GolfSpy WD]

Where has golf etiquette gone? Maybe it's because golf is appealing to a much wider range of individuals, maybe people were never taught golf course etiquette, or maybe people just don't give a damn. There have been three instances in the last two weeks, where I have just wanted to smack somebody upside the head. Our municipal courses around here, have only one attire rule....your shirt must have sleeves. There was a group of four drunk hillbillies that were playing in their tank tops, as soon as they got out of sight from the clubhouse. I'm the type of guy that dresses like I'm going to a country club, when I'm going to the range, so this really bugs me. Tuesday I was playing and we were putting when two guys in a cart pulled up, practically right on the green, and yelled "hey, did you find a wedge up here?", right in the middle of my putting stroke. Two holes later, the same guys were teeing off and a guy from the next fairway over hit one to the edge of their fairway; he was to his ball before they got to the tee box, yet they scream "FORE", right in the middle of his back swing. Finally, my cousin and I were playing last week and we caught up to a foursome on 12 and they would not let us play through. We were getting very frustrated, because they were horrible and we were playing good and had to wait on every shot. When we got to 15, we were steaming; we both split the fairway and had 130 in, the pin was on the far right, so when they were walking off (still on the green) we both hit and both stuck it inside 4'. All they did was stare us down as they all teed off on 16 and all missed the fairway, only hitting it about 180 off the tee. These are just examples from the last two weeks.

 

I think the USGA should learn from the Germans and start making people get a license to play. I really don't enjoy playing on the weekends anymore, because all the inconsiderate hillbillies are out. I'm not trying to sound like an elitist, I just love the game of golf and I play it the right way.

 

On the course I play regularly, if your round goes over 2 hours for 9 holes you'll hear about it. It's by far the fastest course in the area. Another course right across the street from where I work you should expect a 2.5 - 3 hour 9 hole round.

 

On that course, I was paired with a group of teenagers last year who would driver their carts onto the green. I had to eventually play through because they were so slow and didn't seem to care about respecting the course. Plus it sucks to have to constantly tell three idiots not to do something. Worst round I've ever had. I'm pretty sure they eventually got kicked off.

 

The course I now play all the time is a bit further from the city and requires driving down some back roads, so I think it's just less well known. The other course is in Cambridge, MA. The point is, if there are courses around, try to find something a little farther out and you may not have to deal with all the crap. It literally took me all of last year to find the course I play now. All other courses are plagued by either slow play, drainage issues, or high price.

[Tyk]

I see stuff like this quite a bit too. I just think its how people are taught (or not taught) to play. I learned from a buddy and he really drilled me on golf etiquette. At the time I thought it was kind of silly and would kid him about it but he'd always say "you need to know all this so you don't make an ass of yourself sometime when it might matter". I think we get people that are self taught that then bring their friends out so they have zero concept of what is considered appropriate. Personally, I don't really care about dress codes, I don't really care what someone looks like as long as they know how to act and respect the game. There's a semi-private country club here in MO where it is acceptable to play shirtless. The guys like to go out and get some sun while they play. Its a bit weird, but other than deciding they don't think shirts are necessary for golf, they play the game right, so who cares?

 

A couple years ago on my home course I was a single behind a 4 some. I had caught them on the tee box 3 times and they wouldn't let me through. Finally I had had enough and caught them again on 12, a par 4. I asked to play through and they said no! So I told them I was going to join them. I teed off with them, hit the green and two putted quickly before they got there and then went on to 13 and teed off without them. I'd had three beers in the clubhouse before they finished.

[JBones]

A couple funny stories that goes along with that. My buddy is a 1 handi and he has great etiquette, but at the same time, he doesn't take sh!t from ANYBODY. We had a foursome slowing us up and he they all teed off, while we were sitting there waiting and my buddy says "gentlemen, do you mind if we play through?" and one of the guys says "you won't go anywhere theres another foursome in front of us", to which my buddy replied in a very smart assy tone "yeah, we'll play through them too". I was playing with another buddy, who isn't a great golfer, but plays very quick; he's a great guy, with great etiquette, but he has a very short fuse. Again, we kindly asked a foursome to let us play through after waiting on them for a couple holes. The "alpha dog" from the group gives us some static, but let us go anyway. We were playing the tips and they were two tee boxes up, so our drives were ending up in the same spots. When we were getting ready to play our 2nds, the "alpha dog" hit his tee shot about 5' from my buddy. I was driving the cart and I got out to hit my second shot, when I hear the cart start moving.....my buddy was heading back to the guys ball as they were coming up to it. My buddy is 6'5" and 280, so he's not a person that gets messed with; he jumps out of the cart and hit's the guys ball back to the tee box and says "the next one is going up your ass". Needless to say, we didn't have any more problems from that guy the rest of the day.

[JBones]

Personally, I don't really care about dress codes, I don't really care what someone looks like as long as they know how to act and respect the game. There's a semi-private country club here in MO where it is acceptable to play shirtless. The guys like to go out and get some sun while they play. Its a bit weird, but other than deciding they don't think shirts are necessary for golf, they play the game right, so who cares?

If it's accepted, I'm fine with it, but when someone walks into the clubhouse in a tank top and their shirt over their shoulder and they are kindly asked to put their shirt on and there is a sign that says "shirts must have sleeves", it bugs me. It's just a lack of respect to the club, the people working there, and everybody else that is abiding by the rules and thats what bugs me about it.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Where has golf etiquette gone? Maybe it's because golf is appealing to a much wider range of individuals, maybe people were never taught golf course etiquette, or maybe people just don't give a damn. There have been three instances in the last two weeks, where I have just wanted to smack somebody upside the head. Our municipal courses around here, have only one attire rule....your shirt must have sleeves. There was a group of four drunk hillbillies that were playing in their tank tops, as soon as they got out of sight from the clubhouse. I'm the type of guy that dresses like I'm going to a country club, when I'm going to the range, so this really bugs me. Tuesday I was playing and we were putting when two guys in a cart pulled up, practically right on the green, and yelled "hey, did you find a wedge up here?", right in the middle of my putting stroke. Two holes later, the same guys were teeing off and a guy from the next fairway over hit one to the edge of their fairway; he was to his ball before they got to the tee box, yet they scream "FORE", right in the middle of his back swing. Finally, my cousin and I were playing last week and we caught up to a foursome on 12 and they would not let us play through. We were getting very frustrated, because they were horrible and we were playing good and had to wait on every shot. When we got to 15, we were steaming; we both split the fairway and had 130 in, the pin was on the far right, so when they were walking off (still on the green) we both hit and both stuck it inside 4'. All they did was stare us down as they all teed off on 16 and all missed the fairway, only hitting it about 180 off the tee. These are just examples from the last two weeks.

 

I think the USGA should learn from the Germans and start making people get a license to play. I really don't enjoy playing on the weekends anymore, because all the inconsiderate hillbillies are out. I'm not trying to sound like an elitist, I just love the game of golf and I play it the right way.

 

I think there are several factors at play that are leading the the steady decline of public golf. First I think it's important to distinguish between those who simply haven't learned the etiquette yet (I've made my share of mistakes), and those who aren't interested in learning it and generally feel like the rules (written or otherwise) don't actually apply to them.

 

While I believe that my greens fee entitles me to play the course in a reasonable time, while respecting it and my fellow golfers, these guys think their greens fee buys them the right for them to do whatever the hell they want on a golf course for as long as they want to do it. I paid my $30, you can't tell me how fast I have to play. Andy really, why shouldn't they expect it to take 5+ hours, that's how long it takes on the PGA Tour. Sadly, not only is that the top of the pyramid as far as golf equipment goes, it's also the barometer for how the average guy things the game should be played (slow...and if you watch Tiger, with lots of club throwing and cursing).

 

The influx of what I suppose is the wrong kind of new golfer is perhaps the byproduct of...actually, it might be the true Tiger effect. More people are drawn to the game, they simply can't be bothered to learn how to behave on a golf course. I think certain behaviors become acceptable within a foursome, and those groups often behave as if they're the only group on the golf course. So you end up with small groups of golfers who have no respect for the course, or other individuals on it, and validated by the other members of their group, they see no incentive to change.

 

The only real solution to the growing epidemic is for golf course owners to set course rules (dress codes, personal conduct policy, pace of play), clearly explain the consequences for violating those rules (you will be escorted off the property and will not be offered a refund), and most importantly enforce the rules. Most courses have the first part down, some actually warn of consequences, but almost no one actually enforces their own rules.

 

Two courses local to me (Saratoga Spa State Park, and Orchard Creek) once upon a time were famous for their strict policing of pace of play. A ranger at the spa, for example, would issue one warning. If he liked you, you might get a second, but after that failure to keep up resulted in an offer to either pick up your ball an advance to where you should be on the golf course or pick up your ball and go home. It wasn't uncommon for golfers to be asked to leave. That rarely happens any more.

 

Another local course where I used to play the majority of rounds has a posted dress code...it's never enforced. They have a pace of play policy. Unfortunately their rangers at the time sucked. After waiting to hit on 4 consecutive tee boxes, my group was told we needed to speed things along because the group behind us was complaining. It wasn't us, it wasn't even the group in front of us (it was the group in front of them), but since it was the group behind us that complained, the ranger (not bothering to actually survey the situation) issued my group the warning. I'm the kind of golfer you want on your course (I play quickly, I clean up after myself...and others), and I'm being treated like an *******.

 

You also can't discount the impact of the economic realities, especially in areas where the golf season is weather-limited. Courses need to make their money, even if it means flooding the course with more golfers than the realities of time and space allow for. It's not uncommon around here for public courses to squeeze a 10:04 in-between the 10 and the 10:09. On a busy summer day, they may even squeeze a 10:03 and a 10:06 in there. They can't really be expected to police slow play when they're directly responsible for it. And most won't enforce their own policies if it means turning away golfers and their money. $120 is tanktops is still $120.

 

Your best (and more expensive option) is to join a private or semi-private club. My experience has been nearly all the members respect the course. We do so because we have a vested interest in its preservation. It is our course, and we take care of it. The weekend hacker at the local muni isn't likely to repair his own ballmark let alone someone else's. Where I play, we fix our own and any others we see.

 

Slow play is seldom a problem either. Nearly everyone I know is aware of pace of play, and when you know the guys behind you (and the guys behind them, and so on) you definitely don't want the be the source of a bottleneck. You will hear about it later. As a result, the just barely over 4 hour round is common, even at peak times on a Saturday. And we're talking about a membership that is largely 50+ and where 90% of the members walk.

 

Dress code is not an issue either. I simply can't imagine anyone I know there showing up in jean shorts and a tank top. If they did, I'm certain the head pro would send them home. (And my club is regarded as "Blue Collar" country club)

 

There are exceptions of course. We have one member that I know of that if he's having a bad round, will throw an entire bag of clubs, he'll roll his push cart across the center of the green, and he's even been known to piss in the middle of the fairway. I can't say for sure if he's been spoken to or not, but I do know that he's generally regarded as the biggest ******* at the club, and that's not a reputation anyone wants. But that's the other thing...when "that guy" makes himself known, somebody is going to report it, and instead of an empty apology, management is going to do something about it.

 

On most public courses the owners are willing to risk one or two unhappy customers if it means the majority will come back. In a private situation, management isn't likely to let one bad apple drive the others away.

 

It sounds snobbish, but a good friend of mine (after a 5 hour round of public saturday golf) told me he'd never play a public course on a Saturday again. He's stuck to it. While I will once or twice a year play public golf with some friends, I've come to believe my buddy is right. While I'm sure there are exceptions, most courses are simply not willing to risk the dollars, or put in the effort it takes to limit their customers to those who actually respect the course, the game, and other golfers.

[JBones]

I will probably never have a membership, because I like to travel around and play so much, so I realize I can't complain too much, because I am playing the municipals, but some of the instances of mentioned in this thread have happened on very upscale private clubs. The problem with the private clubs around here is that they are fairly expensive upscale clubs and some of the members have a sense of entitlement; granted that group is only about 5% of the member population, but those are the guys I always seem to get stuck around.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Interesting how different types of courses attract different types of golfers. The course where the above incident took place was a public course, and being a "member" simply means you pay a flat rate for the year and golf as much as you can. Works out okay if you like the course ( I didn't, changed courses for this year). Didn't realize till after I joined that club that it's what the locals refer to as a "cow pasture" ( a bit unkind -- not a bad layout, just very poor maintenance, plus a couple of holes that exist only because they needed 18), and one that struggles to attract regular rate golfers. There are lots of other, better options around, so this place would offer unbelievable greens fee deals, even on weekends, just to get revenue. Enforce the dress code? Hell, they would ADVERTISE that cutoffs and tank-tops were not only okay, but encouraged!

 

The dress code didn't bother me, but the slow play, overall poor condition of the course and the attitude of other "members" surely did. So I exercised my right as a consumer and took my business elsewhere. Club I play now is not only a MUCH nicer track, they actually have rangers out on the course respectfully encouraging players to keep pace ( a nice switch - previous club had no rangers - couldn't afford 'em), is always in great shape and for a membership, about half the price. I think they make up for it by having much more expensive weekday and weekend rates.

[Kanoito]

It's interesting how you mention the golfing license in Germany.

 

I'm member of a public course that charges around $1200 a year (no admission fees, etc) for all you can play. It's probably the cheapest club in the area. The downside is, since it's so cheap, wannabe golfers that have nothing better to do during the weekend will go borrow some clubs, pay the cheap green fee and be douchebags on the course.

 

I've been playing there for 2 years and until today, I still don't understand why don't they check for golfing licenses when people are paying the green fee. IMHO, they should also ask guests to show their divot tool. Of course, the club isn't going to do any of that, who in his right mind would say no to business, right? The only people who get screwed over by this is us regulars who do have a license and follow proper etiquette.

 

A public club has it's upsides too, people are pretty chill and less chance of playing with snobs.

 

To get the license you need like 14 lessons on the range, 1 rule and etiquette lesson and a test playing 9 holes. You are allowed to go 3 over on each hole to pass the test. I've seen people go 10 over in most holes and somehow they still get their license. Please explain why??? It's good business for the pro (the classes and test go for about $250/person) and it's good for the club since more members = more money.

 

We've been held up plenty of times, people won't let us play through, 3 players playing from the same bag, people pulling their trollies over the green, you name it. And when we call the club house for a marshal... surprise! We don't have one!

 

A golfing license is a good idea, but it's only as effective as the pro and club enforcing it. Believe me, 50% of the players at our course do have a license and they'll piss you off in less than 3 holes.

 

That is why, a few of us (around 20 players) are considering switching clubs next season. They are of course more expensive ($1800 annual fee + $2000 or $3000 admission) but they do their job right. They require tee times, they got marshal patrolling, they ask for ID and license when you check-in, etc.

Is it worth it? Hell yeah! Time is money and I'm tired of 6 hour rounds.

 

Oh yeah, the new club forbids jeans, sleeveless shirts, sweat pants, etc. Yeay! I like looking sharp

[Matt Saternus]

Played with a full bore club thrower yesterday. Not a bad player, but very inconsistent, and he felt that anything other than tour-caliber shots merited a full on helicopter. Just plain silly, made himself look like a fool and embarrassed the hell out of his friends.

 

With regard to pace of play, I just don't play on weekends anymore. I can get out on a Wednesday morning and get done in under 4 hours (under 3 if it's early enough). I can't do the 5 hour Saturday thing anymore.

[RookieBlue7]

Thing is, about letting someone play through, one doesn't have to. It's a courtesy and the proper thing to do, but of they say no, you're supposed to stay behind them and give a courtesy call to the clubhouse and ask them to send out a Marshall. If they won't, then you stay behind them. Just because they're being an ass, one shouldn't reciprocate.

 

My thing I hate the most is someone hitting in on my group, especially when there's nowhere for anyone to go. I'll either take their tee ball back to them and toss it over their head in the woods or I'll smack it out into the woods or a pond intentionally. If it happens again, I take it back to them and ask them if they've ever eaten a golf ball, if not, they will have an opportunity if it happens again. If there's a third time, I grab my 5 iron out of my bag, take the ball back to 30 yards from the teebox and hit a low punch through the middle of their group. That generally gets the message across. I've done the thir step exactly once. And the guys left the course.

[Super Tuna]

Two Things

 

A: I echo T's post fully. Some people just don't know because other's won't teach them and some people just don't care.

It's funny the amount of snotty comments I've gotten from people about doing one thing or the other and replied calming with a how do I know if no one ever teach's me. Half ot them just get more offended while the other half are more then happy to teach.

 

B: JBones, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with your two comments about hitting at people. Whether they're on the green walking off or your buddy hitting back at them. People are jerks, but that's no reason to have the potential to kill one of them because of it. All it takes on that first shot is for your foot to slide a fraction of an inch and maybe one of those jerks get's hit in the face instead.

 

Or what if the other jerks who hit into you called the club house like your friend should have done? It doesn't take much more then a bored marshall or annoyed club employee to boot you off and ban the whole lot of you from coming back.

 

Hitting into or near people on purpose is NEVER acceptable.

[Flv02]

I am the type of golfer who dresses up to go to the range and the putting green as well (actually, I am about to do it an an hour and a half). My uncle was who taught me how to play. During my first round ever, he told me about all of the rules and enforced them. I always had to dress appropriately, replace my divots, fix my ball marks, keep with the pace of play, etc. Because of that, it bothers me everytime I see someone not abiding by the rules. Each week, I get to see the difference in two different courses. During the week, Monday thru Thursday, I play at a semi-private club where everyone knows each other. I am an employee there, so I play for free (Otherwise, I would not be able to afford it.) Everybody there replaces their divots, has a fast pace of play, is nice to each other, and follows every rule of golf. Not one time have I seen someone in jeans or a cutoff shirt, or anything like that (there is an occasional one at the range, but if they want to play, they are sent home to change or are told to buy clothes in the pro shop). On Fridays, I play with my two uncles and my father at a public course. It is cheap for everyone else, so I do it (it really is too expensive to play 9 holes at my club each week). It is the exact opposite. Our foursome is the only one that treats it like we are playing a private course, and we treat every course like that. The other plays come in tank tops and jeans, or baggy basketball shorts. I hate it. They don't replace their divots and take multiple divots during their practice swings too. Since they are unexperienced, all of their divots are fat as hell, leaving a gaping hole with the widths of 5 swings each. They don't replace anything. Then, they do not replace their ball marks, which is a pain in the ass if they become completely unfixable (happened to me and one of my uncles last round where we could not repair it and decided to putt anyway and the ball ended up hopping). They also play very slow. As a foursome, we keep up and have to wait for groups of two. It is ridiculous. I do not know what is happening with everyone else and why golf is like that. I would be happy with a license as JB said. And like the rest of you said, it is definitely better at the semi-private and private courses by far. It is obvious.

[Tony Covey MGS]

I will probably never have a membership, because I like to travel around and play so much, so I realize I can't complain too much, because I am playing the municipals, but some of the instances of mentioned in this thread have happened on very upscale private clubs. The problem with the private clubs around here is that they are fairly expensive upscale clubs and some of the members have a sense of entitlement; granted that group is only about 5% of the member population, but those are the guys I always seem to get stuck around.

 

I used to think I could never be tied to down to one course, but the convenience and the familiarity outweigh everything else. I have a semi-regular group on Saturday, there are a ton of tournaments, and leagues, and if I want to sneak out for 9 or 18 late in the day on the weekends I never have to worry about getting held up by hackers trying to capitalize on twilight rates.

 

I'm relatively fortunate in that my club is comparatively inexpensive (though with food minimums and league fees things start to rise a bit), and only 5 minutes down the road. basically it's impossible to beat.

 

 

 

[JBones]

B: JBones, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with your two comments about hitting at people. Whether they're on the green walking off or your buddy hitting back at them. People are jerks, but that's no reason to have the potential to kill one of them because of it. All it takes on that first shot is for your foot to slide a fraction of an inch and maybe one of those jerks get's hit in the face instead.

Nobody was remotely in danger in either situation. When we hit onto the green while they were still on, they were literally 40yds left of the pin (wide, shallow green); they would have actually been closer to our balls standing on the next tee box, which was located 30yds behind the green. In the second situation, my buddy and I were hit into, when he hit the ball back to the tee box, it was with the guy standing about 20' straight right of him, so he'd have had just as good of a chance of being hit on a driving range as he would have by my buddy (not even a shank goes straight perpendicular). Besides, if I was out to hurt somebody, I'd take a 5I to their knee, not hit a ball at them.

[Shambles]

Rudeness has a way of showing itself when a course becomes crowded. People just tend to become more jealous of their space and perceived rights, less accommodating. The easier recourse is to do as wdgolf did, which was to find a course farther away and less used. It could cost you travel time but you more often get to visit small communities that have the time to be polite and accommodating.

 

The game as played takes time and space. It does not do well in crowded conditions, and neither do I. I choose the least popular and least comfortable hours to play when I can so that I won't, as often, be confronted with slow players. You get a better chance at empty fairways, which is nice.

 

 

Shambles

[Flv02]

Going off what Shambles said, I do the same thing. When I want to play 18 holes, I go when no one is around so I have not even the possibility of there to be bad etiquette from anybody or it being slow by any means. Thats why I am the first person on the course at 7AM on a Monday morning and the first person off at 11AM or sometimes earlier (depending on how fast I feel like walking). There is no one in front of me and no one behind me. I love it . But since most of you ARENT college students on summer vacation, I dont know what you would do on a weekday.

[Kanoito]

This thread just made a miracle happen for me.

I woke up today, skipped a day of work and got to the course at 9am.

 

The course was full already (mostly seniors who drive the ball 100 yards) so I was starting my mental preparation to play a 6 hour round today.

 

Surprisingly, 5 flights saw me playing alone and they all let me play through. It was amaaaaaaaaaaazing! I finished in 3 hours and still had time to practice my chipping, pitching, putting and driver.

[HighFade]

I know ill sound like an elitist, but growth may not be the best thing for golf. There are a ton of real d-bags in this world. I go to the golf course to ESCAPE them.

 

But 95% of the time, I meet new, nice people and it's very enjoyable. Just like any other facet of life, that 5% can really make life miserable.

[The Artful Duffer]

I've noticed a distinct lack of bitching about spike and ball marks on the greens. I always fix mine and usually try to fix as many others as I can. Spotting one of these in my line usually makes me want to take my divot tool and shove the forked end up the offending persons nose and use it to drag them back to fix it themselves. Another one that kills me is the divots on a par 3 tee box when there is a bucket of sand and seed right next to the tee marker. Right up with that is the divot my ball always finds it's way into on the fairway. It's bad enough that the jagoff in front of me couldn't pick up the divot literally 5 yards in front of the damn hole in the turf but when there is a pour bottle of seed and sand mounted to the side of your cart for such an occasion I suggest you use it. Sorry that got a little rant-y but I started out with a quick thought and as the anger built, the golf Hulk inside me kind of took over. Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me smacking you with a 7 iron when I'm angry. That said, the slow play doesn't really bother me a whole lot when I travel back home to get in a weekend round with some old friends I don't get to see as often these days but when I want to get in a quick 9 after work on a local muni, I fully expect it to be a quick 9 which mean hour and fifteen tops.

[Flv02]

Going off what I said before, I decided to play a 9 hole round at around 6PM today. There was a tournament at my course, so I knew I had to go after six. I thought I would be able to go out and be alone. Well, I wasn't. The pro gave us a sort of shotgun start for everyone who was waiting so that we could get our nine holes in. The course was in great shape, but the tournament left a mess and did not seem to either clean up after themselves or fix their ball marks. They replaced their divots, but that was probably because they were hitting good shots (well, thats what it seemed like with all of the ball marks on the green and the fact that in one group, the first golfer rimmed out a hole-in-one and the golfer immediately after him holed it and won a new Audi convertible). Anyway, I was paired with a guy named Doug who was probably in his fifties. I thought about the website when, on the first hole, we walk to the green and the first thing he starts to do is fix all of the ball marks! YES DOUG! PEOPLE STILL HAVE ETIQUETTE IN THIS GAME! Anyway, I thought of you guys when he did that and felt like mentioning it haha We had a great round, talked a lot, and used perfect etiquette at the same time. It just reminded me of how great this game can be and all of the great people you meet.

[apprenti23]

The tiger boom (golfers teaching thselves how to play) and poor economic times (green fees have dropped in price, introduction of discounted online tee times, coupons, etc.) have KILLED golf etiquette! I don't know why, but we have a much more difficult time nowadays with pairing golfers up and pace of play than we ever had in the past. I've been saying this for the last three years or so, but there are solutions. The problem is golf course owners/operators have to introduce discounted times and rates or they'll be out of business. The past usage of early bird and twilight are no longer the only discounts available. I run a municipal facility on the south side of Chicago so I see it every day. Some people want to learn, so we need to do the best to educate them. Some people just don't want to learn or listen to anyone and that's usually the time when I have to put on my "ranger" hat and get out there. My staff and i always start things off saying, " hey guys I'm not sure if anyone has ever told you, but..." this is good for almost all situations - playing through, pace of play, cart etiquette, dress code, etc. there are certain ways of saying things that will achieve certain responses. Some people are just plain a$$holes though. Oh and I can usually pick out the "golf now" people from a mile away. Lol

[Matt Saternus]

The tiger boom (golfers teaching thselves how to play) and poor economic times (green fees have dropped in price, introduction of discounted online tee times, coupons, etc.) have KILLED golf etiquette! I don't know why, but we have a much more difficult time nowadays with pairing golfers up and pace of play than we ever had in the past. I've been saying this for the last three years or so, but there are solutions. The problem is golf course owners/operators have to introduce discounted times and rates or they'll be out of business. The past usage of early bird and twilight are no longer the only discounts available. I run a municipal facility on the south side of Chicago so I see it every day. Some people want to learn, so we need to do the best to educate them. Some people just don't want to learn or listen to anyone and that's usually the time when I have to put on my "ranger" hat and get out there. My staff and i always start things off saying, " hey guys I'm not sure if anyone has ever told you, but..." this is good for almost all situations - playing through, pace of play, cart etiquette, dress code, etc. there are certain ways of saying things that will achieve certain responses. Some people are just plain a$holes though. Oh and I can usually pick out the "golf now" people from a mile away. Lol

 

That's a nice way to start the conversation. I know that I'm often guilty of attributing to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance. I'd be better off not doing that and adopting a friendlier tone in the initial discussion.

[Flv02]

Alright golfers, I have a question. I played a round this morning at the course where I work at. I decided to join a pair (father and son) and another golfer (who was VERY good). Throughout the whole round, all of us were playing at a good pace, while replacing/filling every divot, fixing ball marks we created, and having a great time. We had perfect golf etiquette, and like I said, we were playing at the correct pace. On the third hole, we saw a twosome with a cart behind us, so we let them play through. After the ninth hole, they went into the pub to get something, which meant we had absolutely nobody in front of us. Here is where I need your advice. There was a foursome behind us the whole time, but they were always a hole away. Behind them were a bunch of other foursomes. Every now and then, they would reach the tee when our fourth guy was hitting (who they couldn't reach anyway), and have to wait literally two minutes. They reached the twelfth tee box when our second guy was putting (its a par 3), and then the two other guys finished their putts. The green reads were made while someone else was putting, so all they saw were two guys take one or two practice strokes and putt. While we are getting in our carts to go to the 13th tee, we one guy on the tee screams at us, starting to tell us that we are holding everyone up and that we "better get moving!" and that we were "holding four *bleep* foursomes up!" That was a lie, because we saw the other foursome just getting to their balls in the 11th fairway, so by the time they were going to the 12th tee, the group behind us would be teeing off on 13. These golfers who were yelling were members, and since I am an employee, I can't say anything back because members have strong pull there. They couldn't tell it was me from that far so I got lucky. The group I was playing with knew that, so they did not say anything either. Now, we checked the time when we reached the tee and it was 2 hours and 41 minutes since we teed off, which is right on pace for a 4 hour round (we were shocked that we were playing that quick based on the way the group behind us were treating us.) Anyway, long story short, they were just hitting the ball the whole day and not fixing their divots or anything (which pissed me off, which is making me think whether it was a new member, because all of the other members treat the course like its their most prized possession), and remained up our butts the whole time. They did not ask to pass us, not like it would matter because IF we did let them, then it would hold up EVERYONE. Sorry about the rant guys, but it pissed off one of my playing partners who drove 3 hours to play this course, which made me feel bad. I have never seen a member at this course do such a thing. Anyway, if you were in my situation, what would you have done? Did we do the right thing by just playing on and completely ignoring them? What would you guys do (right or wrong)?

[Matt Saternus]

FLV02: That's a very tough spot, particularly being an employee of the course. When someone is behaving like that, you're in a no win situation. You can try to explain the situation, but that would require driving back to them and hoping they're reasonable. IMO, you did the right thing by playing at a good pace and ignoring them.

 

I've often said that pace of play in golf is like driving on the highway. Anyone going slower is an a**hole and anyone going faster is a maniac.

[Kanoito]

Can't do anything about them being aholes, but once you get back to the club house, you could approach them nicely and tell them that "a few regular members have complained about their lack of etiquette such as yelling on the course, not replacing divots, etc."

 

This way, they won't know it was you and you can use an anonymous member to point out their mistakes