Not Chasing Scratch...Just Chasing a Semi Decent Reliable Game...How Do I Get There

[ccostel18]

19 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

or the area fronting the green is so flat and tight it's like the green .. then for your next shot ... would you rather putt on the green to the pin, or would you rather chip or pitch or bump & run towards it..?

If it’s a well groomed course and the ground is on the harder side then putting for sure. Unless it is a huge green with a back pin then I may opt to bump and run. I have been pulling my 50 degree a lot lately for those types of shots vs a higher degree wedge. 
 

But usually if the conditions are like you are describing a short shot will end up running over that type of terrain and end up on the green anyway. 

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

Speak to me like I am a 5 year old, but where exactly for the box placement? Definitely something that I feel like I should know  but all I can visualize in my head is outside the ball and I know I'd have no problem missing it as I miss off the toe most often with my early extension. 

 

See the video below for box placement    You said you were outside in with your path so even if you hit off the toe you will still hit the box because the drill is about moving path to in to out.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

8 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I have both the R10 and the MLM2Pro   Both good in their own right, but you are correct, the MLM2 does not show show club path or face angle.    I think the R10 is pretty accurate in that regard, as I've had it right next to Trackman a few times. 

As mentioned I have a big number in path 8 or higher at times, but I guess I off set that by getting the face relatively square (at times) at impact resulting in a fade.  But I no doubt need to reduce that path. 

Mine is typically in that range as well, can be anywhere from as low as 5 to as high as 10 at times. I unfortunately tend to leave the face a couple degrees open, resulting in the slice I struggle with. 

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

See the video below for box placement    You said you were outside in with your path so even if you hit off the toe you will still hit the box because the drill is about moving path to in to out.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll give it a try, thanks @cnosil!

[skraeling]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:03 PM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

 

•  To that end here are my scoring averages for each this year based on my hole by hole stat tracking on GHIN along with Stats from my all around game. 
  • Par 3's 3..88
  • Par 4's 5.46
  • Par 5's 6.65
• Average putts 33.6  (This is much higher than it has been and I can go into a long explanation, maybe in another post in this thread) 
• Putting summary
  • 2 putts or better 83%
  • 1 putts 16%
  • 3 putts or worse 17%
• Driving Distance 
  • It doesn't save those numbers but I have enough on course R10 numbers to know it's around 187 

 

 

 

I have the opposite problem.  Par3's cost me the most compared to you.  It helps im longer on average off the tee which is probably why I tend to do better on 4/5's

4.1(PAR 3) 5.3 (PAR 4) 6.1 (PAR 5)

iron consistency has always been my biggest achilles 

Edited July 14, 2023 by skraeling

[THEZIPR23]

15 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

@Javs comment above brings up something I have made more of a focus on the last two rounds and I’m curious to the answer of this question from everyone. 
 

Let’s take the 3 typical pin locations.  Front, Back and Middle and for this purpose assume it’s in the middle section of each meaning.  No tucked left or right. 
 

what % of the time do you shoot right st the flag in each spot 

For me I’d say it’s close to these 

Front I’ll shoot right at it maybe 80% of the time. The other 20 I’m going a bit long if there is trouble right in front. 
 

Middle probably 90% of the time.  The other 10% when greens are rock hard or there is a severe down slop behind the green and I don’t want to go look 

Back- Less than 20% of the time.  Long on my course is usually dead or penalty area and I don’t like short sided shots from  deep rough.   So I go to the middle here about 80% of the time. 

I know others have commented on that and I will echo the same sentiments. For front pins I 100% of the time and at least 5 yards to the distance, if there is big trouble short it will be more. Even if I hit it the perfect distance I am only 15 feet long. Hitting the green almost no matter where is much better than most chip shots. 

Middle of the green I pretty much play the yardage.

Back pin varies depending on where trouble is located.

[cksurfdude]

1 hour ago, ccostel18 said:

If it’s a well groomed course and the ground is on the harder side then putting for sure. Unless it is a huge green with a back pin then I may opt to bump and run. I have been pulling my 50 degree a lot lately for those types of shots vs a higher degree wedge. 

Mentioned it earlier - at that Monte clinic one of the tricks around the greens he shows you is a 3W (not hybrid) putt from a fairly smooth, tight lie in front of the green. With the proper setup all you have to do is aim and hit it hard enough!

Funny but fwiw I'm also using my GW (48) around the greens a lot; often more than SW (54) and def more than LW (60).

[Kenny B]

30 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Mentioned it earlier - at that Monte clinic one of the tricks around the greens he shows you is a 3W (not hybrid) putt from a fairly smooth, tight lie in front of the green. With the proper setup all you have to do is aim and hit it hard enough!

Funny but fwiw I'm also using my GW (48) around the greens a lot; often more than SW (54) and def more than LW (60).

Monte showed us the 3W shot but it was from just off the green in some patchy grass that would be questionable for any iron, especially a wedge.  I have actually practiced it and did OK with it.  I still opt mostly for my 60º and sometimes my set 48º PW.  The turf has a lot to do with selecting the club.  I have no issue hitting my 60º with 12º of bounce off most lies including tight fairway lies, but I wouldn't use a 60º with low bounce; too easy to catch the leading edge... bounce is my friend.

[Javs]

2 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Monte showed us the 3W shot but it was from just off the green in some patchy grass that would be questionable for any iron, especially a wedge.  I have actually practiced it and did OK with it.  I still opt mostly for my 60º and sometimes my set 48º PW.  The turf has a lot to do with selecting the club.  I have no issue hitting my 60º with 12º of bounce off most lies including tight fairway lies, but I wouldn't use a 60º with low bounce; too easy to catch the leading edge... bounce is my friend.

Couldn’t you execute the same shot with a 8 or 7 iron? Shows there are many ways to pull off a shot. 

[Javs]

2 hours ago, ccostel18 said:

If it’s a well groomed course and the ground is on the harder side then putting for sure. Unless it is a huge green with a back pin then I may opt to bump and run. I have been pulling my 50 degree a lot lately for those types of shots vs a higher degree wedge. 
 

But usually if the conditions are like you are describing a short shot will end up running over that type of terrain and end up on the green anyway. 

If it is smooth fringe then I almost always elect to putt. A bad putt more often than not is still better than a bad chip. 

[skraeling]

14 minutes ago, Javs said:

If it is smooth fringe then I almost always elect to putt. A bad putt more often than not is still better than a bad chip. 

When you can putt, when you cant bump it, when you cant do either of those pitch it, if none of that is an option pray to your favorite golf god and grab the 60*.

[Javs]

2 minutes ago, skraeling said:

When you can putt, when you cant bump it, when you cant do either of those pitch it, if none of that is an option pray to your favorite golf god and grab the 60*.

Agree and there are many ways to play a shot. Around the green comes down to skill and creativity. I feel very comfortable playing various options; however, I prefer to use the one with the greatest probability for me. 

[Kenny B]

27 minutes ago, Javs said:

Couldn’t you execute the same shot with a 8 or 7 iron? Shows there are many ways to pull off a shot. 

Which shot are you referring to?

Pin close... ball in patchy grass but sitting on dirt with a tuft of grass directly behind ball.  That was what Monte showed us.  His technique with 3W worked great.  Any other lie and my 60º works just fine, and if I want to hit a long bump and run, the club is my PW.

I would never use a 7 or 8 iron for any shot around our greens; maybe a 9i if I was close to the green and had to hit a bump and run more than 20 yards.  Any more club and the ball rolls off the other side of the green.

[Kenny B]

27 minutes ago, skraeling said:

When you can putt, when you cant bump it, when you cant do either of those pitch it, if none of that is an option pray to your favorite golf god and grab the 60*.

You must not practice various shots with your 60º very often.  I practice with it nearly every day and I am very comfortable hitting many different shots with it.  It's my goto club around the green most of the time.

Of course I will putt from the fringe, and even putt when I am in the fairway but close to the green with a close pin.  A PW bump shot is my choice when the ball is close to the green, green is relatively slope-free, and pin is middle or back.  

[Javs]

26 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Which shot are you referring to?

Pin close... ball in patchy grass but sitting on dirt with a tuft of grass directly behind ball.  That was what Monte showed us.  His technique with 3W worked great.  Any other lie and my 60º works just fine, and if I want to hit a long bump and run, the club is my PW.

I would never use a 7 or 8 iron for any shot around our greens; maybe a 9i if I was close to the green and had to hit a bump and run more than 20 yards.  Any more club and the ball rolls off the other side of the green.

I guess it would depend on how you are executing the shot. I feel fine hitting a bump with a 7 or 8 iron. Pops over the fringe and rolls out nicely. I hit it based on the distance it needs to travel. Usual formula is 1/3 carry 2/3 roll out. Like I mentioned earlier I feel fine hitting chips, pitches or bumps with multiple clubs. Depends on what I am trying to achieve or execute. 

[skraeling]

27 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

You must not practice various shots with your 60º very often.  I practice with it nearly every day and I am very comfortable hitting many different shots with it.  It's my goto club around the green most of the time.

Of course I will putt from the fringe, and even putt when I am in the fairway but close to the green with a close pin.  A PW bump shot is my choice when the ball is close to the green, green is relatively slope-free, and pin is middle or back.  

I mean I have a 56* and yeah I’m pretty well versed in using it.  Was simply making a joke.

[BKervin]

21 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

@Javs comment above brings up something I have made more of a focus on the last two rounds and I’m curious to the answer of this question from everyone. 
 

Let’s take the 3 typical pin locations.  Front, Back and Middle and for this purpose assume it’s in the middle section of each meaning.  No tucked left or right. 
 

what % of the time do you shoot right st the flag in each spot 

For me I’d say it’s close to these 

Front I’ll shoot right at it maybe 80% of the time. The other 20 I’m going a bit long if there is trouble right in front. 
 

Middle probably 90% of the time.  The other 10% when greens are rock hard or there is a severe down slop behind the green and I don’t want to go look 

Back- Less than 20% of the time.  Long on my course is usually dead or penalty area and I don’t like short sided shots from  deep rough.   So I go to the middle here about 80% of the time. 

For me it really depends on the hole and the lie of the green.  My home course has fairlt large, undulating greens.  Each green is a little different and depending on the pin placement you can benefit or be crippled by hitting to the same area based on pin placement.  I don't really have anyway of calculating or even as a guesstimate on my home course.

Lots of the South Carolina greens Slope away from the center of the green without much undulating. There I would say 

Front - 100% right at the pin.

Middle - 90% depending on hazard in front or to the left or right

Back - 90% to the middle of the green to hopefully not roll off the back.

[Kenny B]

5 hours ago, Javs said:

I guess it would depend on how you are executing the shot. I feel fine hitting a bump with a 7 or 8 iron. Pops over the fringe and rolls out nicely. I hit it based on the distance it needs to travel. Usual formula is 1/3 carry 2/3 roll out. Like I mentioned earlier I feel fine hitting chips, pitches or bumps with multiple clubs. Depends on what I am trying to achieve or execute. 

Exactly!  Every location and golfer is different as is how they play shots.  The turf and green speed dictates what I can do.  I still struggle with bermuda when vacationing for 2 weeks in the winter  

I found out that low lofted bumps run out too far on our greens.  The greens are pretty fast for a muni, but it may also be my technique.  When I first started to use the bump, I was playing SGI irons that had very hot faces; I couldn't control shot distance, so I spent all my time perfecting various shots with my 60º.  Since I went back to my MacGregors, feel is much better and club lofts are higher.  I just recently started using my PW for some bumps, but I also bump shots with my 60º to close pins.

[Javs]

5 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Exactly!  Every location and golfer is different as is how they play shots.  The turf and green speed dictates what I can do.  I still struggle with bermuda when vacationing for 2 weeks in the winter  

I found out that low lofted bumps run out too far on our greens.  The greens are pretty fast for a muni, but it may also be my technique.  When I first started to use the bump, I was playing SGI irons that had very hot faces; I couldn't control shot distance, so I spent all my time perfecting various shots with my 60º.  Since I went back to my MacGregors, feel is much better and club lofts are higher.  I just recently started using my PW for some bumps, but I also bump shots with my 60º to close pins.

Agree that turf and green speed play a huge role in the shot selection. As well as slope and many more variables. I put in hours of practice around the greens using various clubs and shot types. I like to have a lot of arrows in my quiver. Plus I spend most of my practice time around the green and putting. That is the area I need to focus most and saves the most shots.

[KC Golf]

15 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Exactly!  Every location and golfer is different as is how they play shots.  The turf and green speed dictates what I can do.  I still struggle with bermuda when vacationing for 2 weeks in the winter  

I found out that low lofted bumps run out too far on our greens.  The greens are pretty fast for a muni, but it may also be my technique.  When I first started to use the bump, I was playing SGI irons that had very hot faces; I couldn't control shot distance, so I spent all my time perfecting various shots with my 60º.  Since I went back to my MacGregors, feel is much better and club lofts are higher.  I just recently started using my PW for some bumps, but I also bump shots with my 60º to close pins.

Over the Winter, my coach advised going with a 56 vs 60 for bump and runs, since if you hit lower then it spins more and you can get it to stop quickly.  It’s something we practiced on a launch monitor to get it to go about 1/2 of stated loft so 28 deg launch with a 56 as your target with high spin.  Still a work in progress   but when it works it’s pretty sweet.  The key is body turn vs getting handsy. It’s a great bump and run stroke saver on fast greens when it works.

[Javs]

1 minute ago, KC Golf said:

Over the Winter, my coach advised going with a 56 vs 60 for bump and runs, since if you hit lower then it spins more and you can get it to stop quickly.  It’s something we practiced on a launch monitor to get it to go about 1/2 of stated loft so 28 deg launch with a 56 as your target with high spin.  Still a work in progress   but when it works it’s pretty sweet.  The key is body turn vs getting handsy. It’s a great bump and run stroke saver on fast greens when it works.

That’s a great shot. I play it with my 54 degree. 

[Kenny B]

20 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

Over the Winter, my coach advised going with a 56 vs 60 for bump and runs, since if you hit lower then it spins more and you can get it to stop quickly.  It’s something we practiced on a launch monitor to get it to go about 1/2 of stated loft so 28 deg launch with a 56 as your target with high spin.  Still a work in progress   but when it works it’s pretty sweet.  The key is body turn vs getting handsy. It’s a great bump and run stroke saver on fast greens when it works.

I'd like to have that shot, but I can't guarantee that I can control spin that well.  My 60º bump will only get about knee high, checks a little and rolls out but I can control the distance up to about 20 feet.  My SW is 54º and I only use it around the greens when in deeper rough or on an upslope because it has 14º bounce.  If my ball is in grass, I'm taking my 60º or PW depending on the lie and distance from the green... unless I'm putting!!

[Javs]

17 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

I'd like to have that shot, but I can't guarantee that I can control spin that well.  My 60º bump will only get about knee high, checks a little and rolls out but I can control the distance up to about 20 feet.  My SW is 54º and I only use it around the greens when in deeper rough or on an upslope because it has 14º bounce.  If my ball is in grass, I'm taking my 60º or PW depending on the lie and distance from the green... unless I'm putting!!

Hmmmmm. There are a lot of ways to use that 54 degree around the greens. Ball back shaft up with a little lean square the face and bump and run. Ball forward open the face to hop and stop. Ball in middle shaft up, toe down hit it like a putt and it jumps and runs 1/3, 1/3. There are endless options and that is just one club.

[GolfSpy SAM]

11 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yeah, it's definitely the transition to the downswing, which I know is not uncommon.   I don't have a long back swing at all, on most iron shots think, 10:00 to 10:30 a clock.  At times, I will intentionally shorten it up to maybe 9:00 or 9:15'ish and find that I make such solid contact, I don't' really lose any distance at all and get a much crisper sound and stronger ball flight.   That works so well, I of course go back to 11:0 or so and think I can hit it even farther. OH DOH 

 

Yeah, I'm on Season 3 now, but have been warned by a reliable source, they kind of go off the rails during this season and is not as much fun to listen to.   On Episode 2 now and I think I can see it coming

I wish I had some advice that would be guaranteed to work.  If you havent already, read the entire thread, there is A LOT of great info and suggestions from several people.  

Oh and think I feel  being i the  same slack chat with @GolfSpy TCB  @GolfSpy BOS  @GolfSpy SAM  @GolfSpy_BNG @GolfSpy_APH and hearing about their rounds in the 70's.    I'm just here to help the BellCurve

 

Oh my god. I've never felt better about myself. 

For the record, my all-time low is 81. I am FOR SURE trying to break 80, and the minute it happens, I will be deleting this post and just editing it to say "Gey, buddy, you'll get there."

[skraeling]

12 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yeah, it's definitely the transition to the downswing, which I know is not uncommon. 

 

So so so much this.  I tend to get too quick thinking... THAT MAKE DISTNANCE.  When being smoother and waiting for (to me) the kick in the backswing where the club itself almost is making the transition to going forward. 

[Jim Shaw]

good saturday morning all,

my 1st. post in this thread, I am really working hard to compete at a high level and this is where I have evolved to so far this season.....

 

 

Teeing it up at 745 PST. looking forward to continuing my pre shot routine of "being present" it worked fairly well last  thursday so we will see. 

Focusing on visual changes takes practice not unlike physical or mental changes, being able to trust the visual and deliver it under pressure, in my opinion, isn't something that you just decide to do at the event but you have to practice well before the event.

I am trying to make it part of the shot process...

Have a great weekend everyone...

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 7/15/2023 at 9:20 AM, Jim Shaw said:

good saturday morning all,

my 1st. post in this thread, I am really working hard to compete at a high level and this is where I have evolved to so far this season.....

 

 

Teeing it up at 745 PST. looking forward to continuing my pre shot routine of "being present" it worked fairly well last  thursday so we will see. 

Focusing on visual changes takes practice not unlike physical or mental changes, being able to trust the visual and deliver it under pressure, in my opinion, isn't something that you just decide to do at the event but you have to practice well before the event.

I am trying to make it part of the shot process...

Have a great weekend everyone...

Thanks for the good thought Jim, and I can definitely agree about the visual changes needing time to take hold as well.  It's something, I've never really focused on--no pun intended--in the past.

Several post in this thread got me thinking about really needing to do something to improve my mental game/approach/focus, then I heard Rory's answer when they asked him what he was thinking about on the 18th green yesterday when he had such a long delay due to Tom Kim taking so long.  That he was just taking in the scene and everything around it, and didn't even think about the putt as he already knew what it was, and didn't overthink it. 

 

[Kevin fox]

Overthinking seems to make golf a much harder sport. Thinking on the driving range is where you should be trying to improve or change your swing I believe. Slow play is definitely the killer of good golf because you have time to think of all the wrong things rather than keeping good thoughts in your head. Keep playing quickly and improve your game. 

[Dooby]

I started the Chasing Scratch podcast just a few months ago and binged through it. I began golf really late last summer so I won't pretend to completely relate to your situation but I do feel like I relate to some of your talking points around where you lose strokes and things like that. I will say you do have some numbers I am currently chasing but I am also looking to break into the 90s more consistently while I know that is a poor score in your eyes.

[Preeway]

1 minute ago, Dooby said:

I started the Chasing Scratch podcast just a few months ago and binged through it. I began golf really late last summer so I won't pretend to completely relate to your situation but I do feel like I relate to some of your talking points around where you lose strokes and things like that. I will say you do have some numbers I am currently chasing but I am also looking to break into the 90s more consistently while I know that is a poor score in your eyes.

Don't ever worry about your score compared to others. Let your game develop and stay confident in what you do. Your scores will continue to get better as you put more time into practice. It doesn't come quick or easy.

[Golfspy_CG2]

25 minutes ago, Dooby said:

I started the Chasing Scratch podcast just a few months ago and binged through it. I began golf really late last summer so I won't pretend to completely relate to your situation but I do feel like I relate to some of your talking points around where you lose strokes and things like that. I will say you do have some numbers I am currently chasing but I am also looking to break into the 90s more consistently while I know that is a poor score in your eyes.

On the subject of the POD, did you finish t and enjoy all the seasons?   I know Russ mentioned he gave up after season 3. 

 

I just listened to the episode where they went to TPI for the first time and met with Corey and Allan, two guys I deal with regularly at Titleist for the forum.  I had been there just a couple months before them.   I was scheduled to go back the week or two after they were there, but then COVID hit and everything changed.