2012: A Shaft Odyssey

[RoverRick]

For as long as I can remember I have hit the irons just about the same distance. I could only swing the club at 75% to have any control over the ball. If I got into a situation where I needed to hit the ball harder, well it was going to go to the left. I originally thought this was because I had some swing flaws. Well, I did have swing flaws, starting with the grip and going on from there. If you could do it wrong, well, I was the posterboy for a poor swing.

 

I spent several years determined that I was going to get good at golf no matter what. I finally got down to a 14 handicap but still had swing issues. Last fall, I decided to fix it. I started with the grip, stance, waggle, back swing, throughswing, and follow through. However, i could still not hit the ball with a full swing. I had been to the fitter and fell into the fitting trap, I only swung so fast, I needed a regular flex shaft they said. If you want more distance, you need more swing speed and the way to get that was to go to a more flexible shaft. So I did that. And then in order to keep the ball from going left, I had to swing slower. If you want the ball to go farther you need a lighter shaft, so I did that. But in order to keep the ball from going left I needed to swing slower, You get the picture. My driver was about the same story.

 

After several changes I never improved in that area. Finally, enter MyGolfSpy. I won forum member of the month, (Monthly Club Ho Contest) I won a Callaway Razr Fit driver with any shaft I wanted, So I began a search for a driver shaft. I ended up against the advice of my now former club fitter getting a Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7 in Stiff. This killed my spin issues that I had with the driver but the heavier stiffer shaft also allowed me to swing harder and gave me much more control. So I decided to do this with my irons and hybrids.

 

First the hybrids:KBS Hybrid Shafts.

 

I decided to try the KBS Hybrid steel shafts.

 

The Looks.

These are a stepless design and look much like the Rifle shafts. They are very nice looking and as fine a looking shaft as any graphite on the market.

 

The Performance.

I had played some steel shafts before in hybrids and fairway metals, but honestly, they did not help. Looking back, i have always had a spin problem, too much, and this caused control and ballooning problems. The steel shafts I tried were all too weak and just did not do it for me. I got the KBS Hybrid shafts in stiff and then tipped them so that they were S+. These clubs for me have been called "sniper weapons" by my competitors in the past couple of weeks. I ended up putting these in some Hogan heads that I have played since 2004. These have had probably 20 different shafts in them over the years trying to find the right combination. I will look no further.

 

The KBS Shafts, give me as much or more distance than any graphite shaft I have ever tried. But they give me more accuracy also. Today, I hit the 14* off of the tee twice when everyone else was hitting driver, and had the second longest drive both times (but only by 10 and 8 yards) and was right in the middle of the fairway. I could not have placed the ball better. I also hit the green on three par 5s from 240+ and made one of the eagle putts.

 

Now the iron shafts:

Dynamic Gold X100s

I went to the golfstore in Dallas and spent a couple of hours hitting iron with different shafts on the lauch monitor. I could see that I had a spin issue. Keep in mind that at this point, I still thought my pull hooks were caused by flawed mechanics and overswinging. Using this information, I could tell, that if you looked at on the spin numbers I needed a heavier shaft. I tried S300s, PX 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 and none of these were the right shaft for me. The KBS Tour shafts, were ok but they were not the right flex for me but I liked the feel. I settled on the C Tapers or the Dynamic Gold X100s. Well, a quick check of ebay told me that X100s were about $230 cheaper than a set of KBS C Tapers. So I got a set. To be honest, I liked them a lot. I had sold my old irons and gotten a set of MP62s heads 5-PW that were not new but I could not find a scratch on them. I installed the X100s and really liked them. Meanwhile, I had bid on a set of C Tapers XS and won them on a second chance. So while they were on the way, I played with the X100s.

 

With the X100s I noticed something, my misses were coming up short, but there were no longer any big left hooks. I could swing a little bit harder and still control the ball. The biggest plus for the X100s was the shot dispersion. They were very accurate but short. I could live with that and I was really begining to like these when I got the C Tapers.

 

KBS C Taper Shafts:

The Looks.

The KBS C Tapers are much like the hybrids, stepless, after all the C Taper stands for constant taper, but have a satin finish. To be honest, this was not very attractive to me at first. I would have really prefered them in shinny chrome than a scratched aluminum look. But they have really grown on me. Not to mention I have had several people come up and ask about them.

 

The Performance:

The C Tapers were everything the DG X100s are and more. On the Launch Monitor, I supposedly had a 30 yard gain with the C Tapers over the DG X100s. Well, that ain't the case. However, they are longer than the X100s and there have been a few times, they are getting more frequent, that I can really feel the shaft kick in. I for the most part am still just swinging at 75-80%, I can take a big swing with these without fear, and as I become more comfortable with them I can see picking up more distance, but for the most part, I would say the claims of more distance with the C Tapers is accurate. I feel these shafts have a lot more to offer than I currently take advantage of. I may have been able to get by with a S+ instead of the XS. And because of this, I had the opportunity to pick up a set of KBS Tours pretty cheap. So I decided to give them a try.

 

Edited again on November 2. I felt I did not give the KBS Tour a good chance. Obviously that was true because with the right flex these are great shafts. I included this in the first post on this thread also.

 

KBS TOUR. (Edit June 25th.) I just learned that the shafts I reviewed in this were not what they were supposed to be. They were closer to a R Flex than an S flex so keep that in mind as you read this.

 

The Looks.

Theses shafts look like the Dynamic Gold or any stepped shaft. They offer them in black and chrome but chrome was what I got.

 

The Performance.

Well, space fans, the story on these are that they are supposed to be very smooth and higher launching and have more spin and you should be able to feel the kick. I put these into the clubs and went to the course yesterday, and had no time to hit even a ball on the range. I litterally put the grips on and by the time I installed the last one, the other three members of my foursome were teeing off. So, I hit a hybrid, did I tell you how much I loved the hybrid shafts?, to the center of the fairway, 125 out and thought, that should be a pitching wedge from here. I hit the pitching wedge, and went over the back left side of the green. Next hole, I went left of the green. Next hole, teed off with the 4 iron and went left out of bonds. Next hole, left. Well, after 5 holes, I never hit another full iron shot. I hit hybrids, and wedges and drive. I did chip with them, but for the last 13 holes I did not use them. I came home and pulled them out and re installed the C Tapers. They were smooth. They were longer. But they were uncontrolable for me.

 

Was this KBS's fault? No. Do they make an inferior product? No. Honestly this shaft will be awesome for some people, but not me. They were no worse that the S300's that I was playing three weeks ago. But once you have a shaft that you can hit well, there is no comparison to one you can not.

 

Yesterday, November 1, I installed a set of KBS Tour Black Nickel X Flex in my irons. I have just played 27 holes with these. But it is worth redoing this section.

 

The Looks. Well, I actually have two sets of these now. I bought a set of chrome and then that night, I ended up swapping the C Tapers for the Black Nickel Tours. Of course, both sets of shafts came in on the same day. I thought I will either sell the chrome ones or install them in my other irons. But I installed the Black Nickels in the Mizuno MP62 heads. I decided to go with black ferrules over the white ones, with blue and white Lamkin 3 Gen grips. These are very good looking sticks but there is a benefit that I absolutely never even dreamt would happen. Because the shaft is black, and the head is chrome, the bottom edge of the club really stands out. This means that it is infinantly easier to square the face at address. A more square face at address means a straighter ball flight.

 

The Performance: They have a very nice high ball flight with lots of spin. I will tell that these shafts are shorter, standard length, than what I have been playing. All the other shafts have been 1/2" longer, but these came standard length and that is fine with me. I was prepared to give up distance, but that was not the case. I hit the 7 iron the distance I have been hitting a 7 iron. The accuracy of these are wonderful. and because the face is easier to square at address, the ball flight is straighter than I have experience with any shaft. This is not rocket science or some miracle, if you hit the ball with a proper swing path and a square face it goes straight.

 

Early on I found myself right of the green because, I have, had, a tendency with the other shafts to set up with a bit of a closed face. I did this for two reasons, one because I did not want the ball to slice or even to hit a weak assed fade. And two, because it looked right, however when I came through the ball it always curved to the left. I decided that this was something I could live with and simply started all the balls at the right of the green and let it draw. With these shafts and the straighter setup/ball flight, I did not draw the ball so I ended up right of the green the first few holes. When I decided that it was not going to draw unless I wanted it to, I began to set up straight at the flag and hit the ball straight.

 

All in all, I was way wrong about the KBS Tour Shaft. These are basically the same as the Hybrid and Wedge shaft that I love. I am now glad I have two sets because I will have KBS Tours in X Flex in all my clubs from now on. I liked the C Tapers but honestly they were more shaft than I needed to play on a daily basis. I could play the C Tapers great when I was 100% (sadly that is becoming more rare with age.) But at 95% and below they were more shaft than I needed. After most of the season wrestling with this notion, I finally admitted it and got the Tours. A great choice.

 

(ADDED on June 5, 2012)

KBS Wedge Shaft

The Looks.

Well, the KBS Wedge shaft looks just like the KBS Tour Shafts or any other stepped shaft. Nothing out of the ordinary but I will say that I like the red and black label.

 

The Performance.

I will admit that the first time I tried these, I was underwhelmed. They did not feel like the wedges I was used to and consequently I did not hit these the same distance and thought that they did not generate as much spin as the standard Dynamic Gold shaft, so after 18 holes, in which I only hit them a few times because I only need to a few times, I took them back out of the bag. I had decided to sell all of them along with the KBS Tour shafts. Well I decided that I really did not give them a chance. I did not put them in the bag for a practice round, I put them in for a competitive round at a different course and then did not like them because they were different. So I put them back in the bag last Monday. And played with them for a week.

 

After some initial "growing pains" I found that I really did like them. The head feels slightly heavier than the DG's. Well, I can feel the head's position better with them. They are as easy to control as the DG's and impart enough spin. These are going to be my gamers now. Two of them are. I have the C Taper in my 51* wedge. I had the golf pro at the club say that he thought they had more distance on full swings, but alas I can not say. I do not hit these two clubs with a full swing enough to know how far they actually go. I probably would have if I thought about it just so I could say but since I think I only hit my 64* with a full swing once on the course last year I do not remember how far it went.

[GolfSpy WD]

Very well written RR, thanks for posting

[btbgolf4]

Nice review, on another note however, what did you put your KBS Hybrid in?

[RoverRick]

Nice review, on another note however, what did you put your KBS Hybrid in?

 

 

I have some 909H 21 and 19 degree hybrids but they have .355 tapered hosels. I also have 14, 17, 19, 21 and 24 degree Ben Hogan CFT hybrids. They all have .370 parallel hosels. Since the KBS Hybrid shafts are .370 I put them in the Hogans. I currently have them in the 14 and 19 degree hybrids. I tend to think of them as a 210 yard club and a 230 yard club, but this is off the deck. Off of the deck this morning I hit the 230 yard club 246 yards to the green and made an eagle. The next hole off of a tee this morning I hit, with a nice easy swing the 210 yard club, 217 yards was the lake, and I came up 6 inches from the edge. A little closer than I like to cut it and was very thankful that it was into a slight breeze.

[Addicted2Golf]

The title of this post was pure genius.

[GolfSpy WD]

RR, just curious, how much distance do you think you've gained with your irons from the original shaft to the C Tapers.

[RoverRick]

The title of this post was pure genius.

 

 

Thanks, I try to give some thought to the titles of the threads I start.

[RoverRick]

RR, just curious, how much distance do you think you've gained with your irons from the original shaft to the C Tapers.

 

At this point it is hard to quantify. I have been unable to take a full swing for a long time with any clubs in an effort to control them. I have had a few swings where I got caught up in the moment and swung more than normal. In the past when this has happened I did not gain any distance, but the ball went 40 yards left. Once yesterday and once today actually on the same hole, I started feeling the pressure of needing to get the ball close, and really popped the ball only to watch it fly dead straight over the flag, and back of green and about 15 yards past the green.

 

I feel like I will ultimately gain distance with these but everytime I had played with these shafts, I have had someone there wanting my money, so I have been content to simply just hit 3/4 shots and go for control. With the hybrid shafts I have pretty much the same story. I will say that I have been shocked three times with these shafts about how far I hit the ball when I had plenty of room to let it fly.

 

In an earlier post I said I think of the hybrids as a 230 and 210 club. Well, I thought of these as a 200 and 185 club when they had graphite shafts. The 4 iron that I was hitting 175 is now a 195 club. These are the only clubs that I have been in a position to really let them go. Now, this is not because they are adding that much more ump to the swing, this is because I can control the ball better and swing harder. They may also be adding but I am not familiar enough with them yet.

 

As far as extra distance goes, the reason I bought the KBS Tour Shafts was because originally, (after 1 or 2 days of play but no practice days, just money game days) I felt that I was unable to load the C Tapers properly and was looking on eBay and they had 4-W Tours Stiff plus two inches long. On a whim I bid on them thinking there was no way I would win them, but I did. However, I have felt an extra kick with the C Tapers a few times, and once I get the feel for them I think I will have to revisit this post.

 

I will have to add to this post anyway because there is one other thing, tonight, I bought three KBS wedge shafts in X Stiff. These are not the hi revs but then again, I do not need more spin. This was another one of those things that I could not pass up. My only problem is I have a C Taper in my 51* wedge so I have an extra wedge shaft and since I have 13 KBS Shafts, a putter and a driver, I will have one too many. I guess I will throw that wedge shaft in when I sell the Tours.

[dooboo]

Excellent review.

 

Might have to give a kbs hybrid shaft a look.

 

I have Scor 47* wedge with KBS Tour S shaft in it, and LOVE it.

 

I bought a set of KBS tour S shafts for my irons, but haven't had a time to install them yet (day job).

 

When I hit 47* Scor wedge vs my P wedge from my iron set, I can definitely feel the difference in the shaft.

[RoverRick]

 

Might have to give a kbs hybrid shaft a look.

 

I

 

 

Honestly, the hybrids are getting to be my favorite clubs off of the tee. On one of the harder par 4's it is 366 yards to the green.

 

Dead straight what is so hard about that. Well. trees all down the left side until 100 yards out. And at 120 yards on the right is a line of trees running perpendicular to the fairway creating an opening about 35 yards. There is a lake on the right and if you get behind the trees, you are not likely to clear the trees and the water. Unless you are 160 yards back. The fairway is straight but the tee box is slanted so most people hit it straight off the front of the tee box to behind the trees bringing the water into play. Hit it left and have trees. Hit it 275 yards straight it is an easy hole. Oh, did I mention that it is up over a hill and you can not see where the green is, or even the gap in the trees.

 

I have been hitting the hybrid off the tee the last few times and finding myself 120 yards out in the middle of the fairway with a pitching wedge in my hand. The best shot with the hybrid may not be as good as the best with a driver. When the wind was just right, I have been 50-60 yards out. Once or twice, but usually 75-85 yards. But a miss with the hybrid is typically short and straight or short and right. Short and right is far enough back to get over the trees and depending on pin position go for the green or layup over the trees to the fairway. But more often than not it is a 120 to 150 out in the fairway.

 

I am only using the driver on par 5's and maybe one par 4 depending on the wind on that hole.

[JohnBarry]

RR, thanks for another great, informative post!

[JMiller]

great write up RR, I have experienced what you are talking about in terms of weaker shafts. The head flips closed at impact, it is hard to feel if you don't have dead or quite hands through impact. However if the hands are passive at impact then a flip the head will twist the shaft and try to roll it in your hands. Example of a possible flipping head, open the face 3* about, hold off the release like you were hitting a 15 yard slice, if it cuts 5 yards, straight, or draws then that head had to close down from the shaft flipping to some degree.

 

One thing I hate is when a so called 'fitter' tells me they can do a visual fitting in 30minutes. Heck even using the Mizuno swing meter my fittings lasted 45-60 minutes with a good fitter. If the fitter is doing it visually without tools it can take 2 to 3 hours. You'll have to take breaks in-between shafts not to tire out espesually important for fast tempo / hard swingers.

 

DG x100 and DG s300 are the exact same weight on paper (130g), that really wasn't the issues of the head flipping the shaft was too weak and you were over powering the s300. So the x100 gave you better results and wasn't flipping over. KBS tends to play about 1/2 a flex softer feeling then any other brand I have tried. C-Taper

X-Stiff, 7.3 on paper plays more like 6.8 with is identical to DG x100 at 6.8.

 

KBS Tour would be just a shade softer the Tour X-Stiff is 7.1 on paper probably plays more like 6.6, plus the more active tip for some people it can feel extremely active. I hated the Tour in my lower irons (6 iron tested), just too high of a ball for my liking and too much spin. They work well in the 3 and 4 iron where having more height and more spin is a good thing to bring them into a green higher and softer.

 

I like the KBS Tour Wedge X-Stiff over the DG x100s, only thing is that on a full 52* I have felt the shaft droop a ton, it is really wicked feeling, but on partial swings which is what i use 99% of the time on wedges anymore they fell great. I have them in the Mizuno MP T-11 wedges, they play like my old grooves did with PX 6.0 Satin wedge shafts on non-confirming grooves from the fairways, perfect, can clip one at 50 yards one hope stop the new wedges. That wasn't going to happen with my Nike VR Pro Black Ox with DG x100s... not sure if it was the shaft, the heads, or both... I tend to think a little of both helped a ton.

[RoverRick]

great write up RR, I have experienced what you are talking about in terms of weaker shafts. The head flips closed at impact, it is hard to feel if you don't have dead or quite hands through impact. However if the hands are passive at impact then a flip the head will twist the shaft and try to roll it in your hands. Example of a possible flipping head, open the face 3* about, hold off the release like you were hitting a 15 yard slice, if it cuts 5 yards, straight, or draws then that head had to close down from the shaft flipping to some degree.

 

One thing I hate is when a so called 'fitter' tells me they can do a visual fitting in 30minutes. Heck even using the Mizuno swing meter my fittings lasted 45-60 minutes with a good fitter. If the fitter is doing it visually without tools it can take 2 to 3 hours. You'll have to take breaks in-between shafts not to tire out espesually important for fast tempo / hard swingers.

 

DG x100 and DG s300 are the exact same weight on paper (130g), that really wasn't the issues of the head flipping the shaft was too weak and you were over powering the s300. So the x100 gave you better results and wasn't flipping over. KBS tends to play about 1/2 a flex softer feeling then any other brand I have tried. C-Taper

X-Stiff, 7.3 on paper plays more like 6.8 with is identical to DG x100 at 6.8.

 

KBS Tour would be just a shade softer the Tour X-Stiff is 7.1 on paper probably plays more like 6.6, plus the more active tip for some people it can feel extremely active. I hated the Tour in my lower irons (6 iron tested), just too high of a ball for my liking and too much spin. They work well in the 3 and 4 iron where having more height and more spin is a good thing to bring them into a green higher and softer.

 

I like the KBS Tour Wedge X-Stiff over the DG x100s, only thing is that on a full 52* I have felt the shaft droop a ton, it is really wicked feeling, but on partial swings which is what i use 99% of the time on wedges anymore they fell great. I have them in the Mizuno MP T-11 wedges, they play like my old grooves did with PX 6.0 Satin wedge shafts on non-confirming grooves from the fairways, perfect, can clip one at 50 yards one hope stop the new wedges. That wasn't going to happen with my Nike VR Pro Black Ox with DG x100s... not sure if it was the shaft, the heads, or both... I tend to think a little of both helped a ton.

 

I am keeping the C Taper in my 51 and putting KBS Wedge shafts in my 56 and I think 64. I only hit partial shots with these but I occassionally will hit a full 51 wedge, although it is rare.

 

For the first time ever, I am able to fade the ball with my irons and the C Tapers. Not much but no matter how hard I tired to hit a fade with a short iron, it just would not do it most of the time on a full swing. I wasted many hours working on that with the short irons because I could do it with all the other clubs. Now I know what the problem was.

[JMiller]

I am keeping the C Taper in my 51 and putting KBS Wedge shafts in my 56 and I think 64. I only hit partial shots with these but I occasionally will hit a full 51 wedge, although it is rare.

 

For the first time ever, I am able to fade the ball with my irons and the C Tapers. Not much but no matter how hard I tired to hit a fade with a short iron, it just would not do it most of the time on a full swing. I wasted many hours working on that with the short irons because I could do it with all the other clubs. Now I know what the problem was.

 

Having the correct shaft takes one piece out of the equation, you know 100% it is not the equipment to blame for a bad result. At least that is how I feel about my current equipment, if I get a bad result it's always from a bad swing.

 

As of the KBS Wedge X-Stiff, I love them in the 56* and 60* there is not really a situation I ever hit them full. I am just on the fence about the KBS Wedge X-Stiff in my 52* gap. I think that C-Taper would by far cover the situations where I want to hit the 52* full but that situation is rare, I am getting more used to simply just taking a choked up PW and 3/4 swing to get the same result with more control. I think the KBS Wedge X-Stiff in the 52 will grow on me, made one of my best shots yesterday with it. Good old low spinner into a slight breeze, front pin location, 100 to the center probably played 90ish total with wind. 1/2 swing 52* 1* open face, pinched it great stayed low. It then hit and spun like a top back and toward the left down a slope to 6 feet for birdie, missed the putt but heck I was happy with the contact, spin, feel and the fact a low spinner stayed low and didn't balloon into the wind.

[RoverRick]

RR, just curious, how much distance do you think you've gained with your irons from the original shaft to the C Tapers.

WD. It has been a week or so since I finally settled in with the equipment. You asked about increase distance and at the time I really could not answer that. I now know that my pitching wedge went from 114 yards to 126. I read the MGSLabs on distance and these are actual real number. SkyCaddie says 126 to center. I hit the PW there.

Now today I had to hit over some trees and was 170 from the green. I wacked it really hard and had 30 yards left but I would not consider that a normal distance. It was not a fluke but did not have the control that I want with irons.

Also I hit the 4 iron 190 today off the tee 3 times and skycaddie said it went 190. All the were perfect draws and this is what I have been doing for a week with this club. I did not play a 4 iron before but a 24 hybrid. This was my 174 club and that was probably more of a target number vs consistent performance number.

All my irons are consistent performers now and 10% longer than before. Honestly, I would often find myself in 5 or 6 iron range and start making partial swings with the hybrids but now 5 or 4 or 8 or PW or 6. I could careless. Same swing different club same results. New shafts and new pre-shot routine are making approach shots a pleasure.

[GolfSpy WD]

WD. It has been a week or so since I finally settled in with the equipment. You asked about increase distance and at the time I really could not answer that. I now know that my pitching wedge went from 114 yards to 126. I read the MGSLabs on distance and these are actual real number. SkyCaddie says 126 to center. I hit the PW there.

Now today I had to hit over some trees and was 170 from the green. I wacked it really hard and had 30 yards left but I would not consider that a normal distance. It was not a fluke but did not have the control that I want with irons.

Also I hit the 4 iron 190 today off the tee 3 times and skycaddie said it went 190. All the were perfect draws and this is what I have been doing for a week with this club. I did not play a 4 iron before but a 24 hybrid. This was my 174 club and that was probably more of a target number vs consistent performance number.

All my irons are consistent performers now and 10% longer than before. Honestly, I would often find myself in 5 or 6 iron range and start making partial swings with the hybrids but now 5 or 4 or 8 or PW or 6. I could careless. Same swing different club same results. New shafts and new pre-shot routine are making approach shots a pleasure.

 

I had a chance to try out the C Tapers finally last week and they definitely live up to the hype on how they feel. I also got my tour striker the same day and have been working on not flipping the club head. The TS is a magical device and it really only took one range session to fix it, though I do tend to fall back on old habits and the TS is always there to help slap me in the face and fix it again. Essentially I was swinging too much with my arms. I'm forcing myself to swing much more relaxed and I've actually gained a little distance, which still seems backwards to me.

 

Anyway, I'm back to hitting the ball higher than ever, so I definitely want to try the C tapers again and get my spin numbers with them.

 

Another question for you though, on full shots, do you find you have a big gap between your PW and your 51* on full shots? This has been plaguing me for a while. My current PW goes 115, but my GW goes 95. The 20 yard gap really sucks and I always mess up shots at 100 yards out.

[RoverRick]

Another question for you though, on full shots, do you find you have a big gap between your PW and your 51* on full shots? This has been plaguing me for a while. My current PW goes 115, but my GW goes 95. The 20 yard gap really sucks and I always mess up shots at 100 yards out.

Edit: If you are in a hurry read only the last line.

 

 

I have the C Taper in my 51 degree wedge. I hit that about 115 full out however, I still have a lot of spin on it and it will often spin too much, depending on the lie. This ball flight is either very high and comes up short, or is a mid flight and backs up. What I found is that I can hit the 3/4 9 iron the same distance with a hop and stop.

 

On my 'full" iron shots, I get my hands above shoulder high and turn my shoulders back to face the target. This is what I think of as a full shot but in reality it is about 85% which is still very controlable. If I raise my hands higher I can get maybe 15% more distance out of each club, but since I am really trying to crush the ball, my tendancy is to overswing from here and not make flush contact. So yes, I may hit the PW 140 yards (stupid hard swing) from here but could just as easily hit the PW 70 yards with that swing and 30 yards off line. I think of it as stupid hard not because it is that hard, but it is that stupid. On Wednesdays, I play with guys in the scramble, and everyone want to be the long ball hitter. We will be 130 yards from the green, and they debate if they should use a 56 or a 51. I want to say, it does not matter because you will be short with both, but keep my mouth shut and let them talk. and after they have missed the green, I will hit my 9 iron on the green to oohhs and aahhs. And think, we could have more options to putt if you guys were not so stupid. So I to can hit a club "stupid long" but the distance it actually travels is as controlable as the directions.

 

On "3/4" shots, I still bring my hands back to shoulder high but only turn "3/4" of the way and only accelerate to "3/4" speed. I have no idea what the speed or the amount actually is. This is done totally by feel and I just know how far to do it. The key is that it is the same everytime. If I want a full, 3/4. half, or 1/4 swing. I can do it with every club and the feel is the same. it is repeatable. Now, in all honesty, my 1/4 swing is closer to 1/3 but that does not matter, it is what ever you want it to be.

 

So if I have a 100 yard shot, which is very typical, I have several options depending on the ball flight I want.

1. Stupid long 56* with a stupid hard swing and may get that distance. If there is a tree and I can only go over it.
2. A full 51* wedge will have a high ball flight that will land on the green and the ball will probably back up a few feet, which is pretty neat if the green is sloped and I hit it past the pin. It is apro looking shot but susceptible to wind. But still very controlable. Only use this sparingly. I can back the ball off of the green very easily with this shot.
3. 3/4 PW. The "go to shot" this is a mid penetrating ball flight that lands like a hackey sack, has one hop and stops, Laser like precision and very disheartening to my opponents. This is my typical pitch shot, and use it most of the time. This is a "nice shot maker" because that is typically what I hear with this shot, and am usually with in 15 feet of the hole.
4. 1/2 8 Iron. This is a waist high, pinch it off the ground, laser straight, low tradjectory wind cheater that appears to be a traveling way too hot to even stop on the green, but has a ton of spin, it hits and takes a big hop and then hits and stops. You see the pros do this a lot with their wedges now on tv. It really checks up. This is usually a "mumble mumble nice shot" getter the kind they talk about in the bar after the round. "I just knew that shot you hit on 12 was going off the back of the green and it stopped right at the flag.". The last 4 times I used this I was within 5 feet of the flag, but, you have to have an open front in the green, it must be sloped towards you, and you must have a perfect lie.
5. 1/4 6 iron. As I said, this is not really 1/4 but this is a bouncing ball type shot and has the least control, but it will get you out from under trees. I say least control because it will hit the ground and for some reason the ground around the greens are not very level.

I have strayed off of target a bit, I hope I have not waisted a large part of your day, when all I really had to say was, I have reshafted my wedges so that this is not an issue.

 

 

[RoverRick]

I added my review of the KBS Wedge Shaft to the original post.

[GolfSpy WD]

I added my review of the KBS Wedge Shaft to the original post.

 

Glad it worked out for you. Know what the difference is between the KBS Tour shaft and KBS Wedge shaft? (or is this the Hi-Rev shaft?)

[RoverRick]

Glad it worked out for you. Know what the difference is between the KBS Tour shaft and KBS Wedge shaft? (or is this the Hi-Rev shaft?)

 

The Wedge shaft is basically the same as the Tour shaft but a little bit different tip supposedly for better control on partial shots. Both of these are availible in Chrome and Black. The Hi Rev would be the equivelant of the Spinner shaft and is supposed to create more spin. I wanted to try the Hi Rev shaft but decided that would be a waste of money because I already have plenty of spin.

[RoverRick]

A friend of mine plays Ping K15 with graphite shafts. A couple of weeks ago he was in a tournament, hit his lob wedge and the head went flying. Broke the shaft. He has decided to change out the shafts to steel shafts, so he asked what I had availible here at Rick's Home for Unwed Golf Clubs. I just happen to have a set of Rifle FCM 5.0, DG R300, S300, X100, and some KBS Tour S.

 

I have been planning on changing the shafts in my Hogans from the FCM 5.0 to the X100 or the KBS Tour S (Hard stepped.) So for giggles last night I changed the shafts in the 6, 7 and 8 irons. I put KBS in the 6 & 8 and the DG X100's in the 7 iron. This gave him the opportunity to compare the Rifles and KBS and we had another set of irons with S300's in them.

 

He absolutely loved the KBS. Even though they may be too stiff for him. He said they did not feel too stiff. I, on the other hand, did not hit the KBS near as well as I did the X100's. With the X100's Every one of them was straight, nice ball flight. But with the KBS I had some really great shots, but several that were not good at all. They seemed to go both high left and low right or perfect. This is probably a flex issue.

[GolfSpy WD]

RR, just curious if you have any new thoughts, specifically in comparing the x100s to the c-tapers. Mainly I'd like to extrapolate whether I should eventually get KBS Tour or S300s based on your feeling of the two brands .

[RoverRick]

I actually typed an update for this thread the other day and decided that no one cared so I did not post it. I guess I was wrong.

 

So here is what I have done. At end of last month, when I posted the thread about the ferrules, and after I did the test I mentioned in the thread above. I removed the C Tapers from the MP62's and put them in some older Hogan CFT irons and installed X100's in my MP62's. I had thoughts of installing the KBS Tours in the MP62's but they were the wrong flex for me and shile I loved the feel of these, I decided they were too much trouble.

 

(I have these shafts still, and I know you want the black shafts but would be willing to trade you for your extra MP FLI HI 21*)

 

I admit that the initial reasoning for what shafts and what ferrules went in each head was purely astetics. The Hogans are 7 years old. They have tiny scratches all over them which gives them sort of a dull finish. Hogan colors are red, yellow, black. The C Taper shafts were satin finish with red and black labels. The Mizzy's are bright new double chrome glow in the dark shinny. The head covers are blue and white (Mizzy colors) so the white ferrules and white grips and shinny chrome X100's looked better together. So I made this swap.

 

WOW. I ended up with the two best sets of irons I have ever swung. Not to mention the two best looking sets I have ever seen. The Hogan's have always had a very high ball flight for me. The have a rather thick sole on them with a deep center of gravity. So they get the ball up really high. Not something that a high spin player in windy Texas needs. But the C Taper shafts have toned this down to a perfect penetrating flight. These shafts in the Mizzies were just slightly low. But in the Hogans they are perfect. I actually used the 3 and 4 iron shafts in a 17 and 21 degree hybrid. This is considerably shorter than a standard hybrid shaft, however, I get exceptional control out of these clubs and honestly think that I hit them farther than any shaft I have ever had in them. (probably 12 to 15 different shafts over the past 6 years or so.) This really is an awesome set of irons.

 

Now for the Mizzies. They of course are beautiful. So much in fact that I have to use head covers, which I generally dispise, to keep them looking good because it is a shame to scratch them. Performance wise, these are now every bit as perfect as the Hogan/C Taper Combo. I think the right KBS Tours would have also been fine but I did not want to spend another $60 bucks making those shafts work when I had some good ones sitting right here. The spin, height, and distance is exactly what I want with each of these set ups.

 

I generally take only a 80% swing with my irons. This ensures they go dead straight and I can control the distance. However, I have an additional amount of distance in the tank if I need it or off the tee I can get it if I wish to sacrifice a little control.

 

I have to admit that when I first went to this stiffer heavier shaft I felt like I was swing a fireplace poker. However, lately I have noticed that I feel the kick in the shafts. This is especially the case of the X100's. They now have the feel that I felt with the KBS Tours but without the wild ball flight sometimes associated with a flex that is too weak.

 

I am interested in getting the MP FLI HI 18 and 21 degree irons. I am hesitant to use the term hybrids for these because I do not think they are hybrids as the club has evolved. I came across one with a KBS C Taper XS in it yesterday, and gave considerable thought to this. I couple get this, and a 21* head and make a complete set of Mizzies and C Tapers, but decided that ultimately I would have a lesser set than the two sets I have now. So I will not be going this route.

 

Now I will answer question. If I were to do it over again would I do KBS or Dynamic Golds.???? I think I would do the KBS Tours. While I did not have stellar results with them, that was because they were not what they were preported to be. What I got was a set that were soft stepped and not hard stepped like was advertised. Since they were marginal to begin with the fact that they are soft stepped made them wrong for me. I was originally going to trim them but left them as they were and like I said, I will trade you for them.

 

But I think you said once that you wanted the black shafts. But either way, I think I would do the KBS Tours. I have the KBS Hybrids and really like the kick I get from them. I can get a similar kick with the X100's now but they are not as good.

[RoverRick]

Today, I put my Medicus Swing Meter on my driver while playing around and have found out why the Callaway Razr Fit which was such an awesome driver has been misbehaving of late. All four times I used it I averaged 106 to 108 mph. This is just a stiff shaft so obviously I need an XStiff.

 

 

This is up about 5 mph since February when I picked out the stiff shaft, and even then 101 was the top number. I averaged closer to 98 mph. What a difference 40 lbs makes.

 

It was sort of funny that with the same swing it was simply not as straight as it used to be. But with the tipped Motore F1 in the Titleist I was getting more distance and straighter flight. Now I know. So it is off on another shaft odyssey but this time for the driver.

[BK in TEXAS]

Today, I put my Medicus Swing Meter on my driver

I have never heard of that.....how does it work?

[RoverRick]

I have never heard of that.....how does it work?

 

It is an accelerometer that clamps onto the shaft. You input your height and club length and when you strike the ball it registers your swingspeed. $19.95. Pretty cool since the closest launch monitor is 88 miles from here. I will look and if there has not been a review I will take some pictures and do one. I have had it for at least a year. Keep it in my golf bag.

[BK in TEXAS]

Pretty cool since the closest launch monitor is 88 miles from here.

Same here....googling it now

[BK in TEXAS]

Sneaky bastards....I almost ordered one from their website for $9.95....glad I read the fine print:

Medicus PowerMeter

List Price: $129.95

Price: $9.95 RISK FREE trial for 30 days

After 30 days 3 x $19.95

and this item ships for FREE with Medicus Bonus Shipping.

You Save: $60 (46%)

In Stock.

 

I'll find one on ebay.

[RoverRick]

Sneaky bastards....I almost ordered one from their website for $9.95....glad I read the fine print:

Medicus PowerMeter

List Price: $129.95

Price: $9.95 RISK FREE trial for 30 days

After 30 days 3 x $19.95

and this item ships for FREE with Medicus Bonus Shipping.

You Save: $60 (46%)

In Stock.

 

I'll find one on ebay.

I ordered mine with the intention of returning it but I did not and was never charged the additional amount. I did not contact them to find out why.

[RoverRick]

Edited again on November 2. I felt I did not give the KBS Tour a good chance. Obviously that was true because with the right flex these are great shafts. I included this in the first post on this thread also.

 

 

KBS TOUR. (Edit June 25th.) I just learned that the shafts I reviewed in this were not what they were supposed to be. They were closer to a R Flex than an S flex so keep that in mind as you read this.

 

The Looks.

Theses shafts look like the Dynamic Gold or any stepped shaft. They offer them in black and chrome but chrome was what I got.

 

The Performance.

Well, space fans, the story on these are that they are supposed to be very smooth and higher launching and have more spin and you should be able to feel the kick. I put these into the clubs and went to the course yesterday, and had no time to hit even a ball on the range. I litterally put the grips on and by the time I installed the last one, the other three members of my foursome were teeing off. So, I hit a hybrid, did I tell you how much I loved the hybrid shafts?, to the center of the fairway, 125 out and thought, that should be a pitching wedge from here. I hit the pitching wedge, and went over the back left side of the green. Next hole, I went left of the green. Next hole, teed off with the 4 iron and went left out of bonds. Next hole, left. Well, after 5 holes, I never hit another full iron shot. I hit hybrids, and wedges and drive. I did chip with them, but for the last 13 holes I did not use them. I came home and pulled them out and re installed the C Tapers. They were smooth. They were longer. But they were uncontrolable for me.

 

Was this KBS's fault? No. Do they make an inferior product? No. Honestly this shaft will be awesome for some people, but not me. They were no worse that the S300's that I was playing three weeks ago. But once you have a shaft that you can hit well, there is no comparison to one you can not.

 

Yesterday, November 1, I installed a set of KBS Tour Black Nickel X Flex in my irons. I have just played 27 holes with these. But it is worth redoing this section.

 

The Looks. Well, I actually have two sets of these now. I bought a set of chrome and then that night, I ended up swapping the C Tapers for the Black Nickel Tours. Of course, both sets of shafts came in on the same day. I thought I will either sell the chrome ones or install them in my other irons. But I installed the Black Nickels in the Mizuno MP62 heads. I decided to go with black ferrules over the white ones, with blue and white Lamkin 3 Gen grips. These are very good looking sticks but there is a benefit that I absolutely never even dreamt would happen. Because the shaft is black, and the head is chrome, the bottom edge of the club really stands out. This means that it is infinantly easier to square the face at address. A more square face at address means a straighter ball flight.

 

The Performance: They have a very nice high ball flight with lots of spin. I will tell that these shafts are shorter, standard length, than what I have been playing. All the other shafts have been 1/2" longer, but these came standard length and that is fine with me. I was prepared to give up distance, but that was not the case. I hit the 7 iron the distance I have been hitting a 7 iron. The accuracy of these are wonderful. and because the face is easier to square at address, the ball flight is straighter than I have experience with any shaft. This is not rocket science or some miracle, if you hit the ball with a proper swing path and a square face it goes straight.

 

Early on I found myself right of the green because, I have, had, a tendency with the other shafts to set up with a bit of a closed face. I did this for two reasons, one because I did not want the ball to slice or even to hit a weak assed fade. And two, because it looked right, however when I came through the ball it always curved to the left. I decided that this was something I could live with and simply started all the balls at the right of the green and let it draw. With these shafts and the straighter setup/ball flight, I did not draw the ball so I ended up right of the green the first few holes. When I decided that it was not going to draw unless I wanted it to, I began to set up straight at the flag and hit the ball straight.

 

All in all, I was way wrong about the KBS Tour Shaft. These are basically the same as the Hybrid and Wedge shaft that I love. I am now glad I have two sets because I will have KBS Tours in X Flex in all my clubs from now on. I liked the C Tapers but honestly they were more shaft than I needed to play on a daily basis. I could play the C Tapers great when I was 100% (sadly that is becoming more rare with age.) But at 95% and below they were more shaft than I needed. After most of the season wrestling with this notion, I finally admitted it and got the Tours. A great choice.