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Counterfeit Club (VIDEO)


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Source: SkySports

 

The market in second hand golf equipment is being damaged by the import of cheap fakes. And as we've discovered buying from anywhere other than an authorized retailer to cut the price paid for a club, can prove a costly mistake.

 

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=72248350001

#TruthDigest
 

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Cool to see, I've heard that as much as 40% of the clubs on eBay are fake, but I haven't seen any real figures to support that number...

 

It seems that most of the fakes are starting to look a LOT better, and close to the originals, but performance is not up to par... Similar to replica watches... I have a couple that look almost exactly like originals, and most people would not be able to tell the difference without opening it up and looking at the movements...

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Driver - 
:cobra-small:  King F6+

3 Wood -  :callaway-small: XR16
Hybrids -  :srixon-small:  ZH45
Irons -  :mizuno-small:  JPX 850 Pro

Wedges -  :callaway-small: Mac Daddy 2
Putter -   :taylormade-small: Spider Tour Red
Bag - Ogio Grom Stand

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That was depressing. $3 fake club.

Definitely doesn't make me want a 2Ball after seeing the racks and racks.

Maybe we could pin an fake club gallery in the equipment section with photos of fakes and explanations of the fake club "tells" so people/buyers can be better armed to spot them. I think I can spot some of the Cameron fakes, but the other clubs and shafts would be tough.

 

obviously buying from a shop is best, but I really like to shop online too

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Video worked for me....and it just gave further evidence to my personal belief that these fake clubs are probably from the very same facilities making the real clubs for the OEM's. My theory is that they are the spec rejects from clubs that don't meet tolerances...or, they are ones made by a guy or two that work at the factory that produces them for the OEM's and he's doing a little extra side work on his own.

 

I don't deal with ebay much...and even more rarely on golf clubs. Just too risky. I saw the 40% estimation listed above...but I wouldn't be surprised if that figure was even higher -- as much as 60%. When someone buys a fake from anywhere, and can't take it to a store in person to trade or sell...what else is left but ebay and craigslist?

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Oh...and I posted another time about just this January being in FL with a guy I know, and him going into a local golf shop to maybe trade his super high-dollar Tour only Taylormade Tour Preferred Irons. He had gotten them from a pro who supposedly knew someone connected to the Tour. He was stunned to find out they wouldn't take them on trade because they were fakes. The guy at the shop even pointed out to him how you could see the hosels starting to bend from not being the good metal.

 

So he goes from having a set of Tour only $1200 irons to having worthless pieces of crap -- just like that.

 

 

Buyer beware. In this day and age, it's just too easy to fake almost anything. Heck, even that video above could be fake. Now think about that. LOL

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Video worked for me....and it just gave further evidence to my personal belief that these fake clubs are probably from the very same facilities making the real clubs for the OEM's. My theory is that they are the spec rejects from clubs that don't meet tolerances...or, they are ones made by a guy or two that work at the factory that produces them for the OEM's and he's doing a little extra side work on his own.

 

I don't deal with ebay much...and even more rarely on golf clubs. Just too risky. I saw the 40% estimation listed above...but I wouldn't be surprised if that figure was even higher -- as much as 60%. When someone buys a fake from anywhere, and can't take it to a store in person to trade or sell...what else is left but ebay and craigslist?

I have also heard rumors of factories running in the "off" hours to produce the fakes. Watching this video makes me think that the fakes would be better.

 

Fakes in other areas are all over Chinese and other markets. My folks spent a month in China years ago and they said that literally anything could be found in some of the markets. At the time, I was playing a certain collectible card game (the outing as a total nerd continues). My folks brought me home a box of cards and I started opening them. There are 36 packs in a box and it was apparent that they had maybe 3 packs off cards and copied them and filled up the remaining packs. Why I bring this up is the box was a real box, as were the wrappers around the cards. Having bought too many packs of cards, I could tell immediately that the packaging was sealed wrong, some packs still had a strong solvent smell.

 

The purpose of this sactown history moment is to realize that some of the parts of the fakes may be real. Grips, headcovers, even shafts may be authentic and only the head bogus. If the driver head is a good fake and the other parts are real, this would be a very tough fake to spot visually, probably only knowing when it broke after hitting a ball.

Volvo Intorqueo

All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave

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Oh...and I posted another time about just this January being in FL with a guy I know, and him going into a local golf shop to maybe trade his super high-dollar Tour only Taylormade Tour Preferred Irons. He had gotten them from a pro who supposedly knew someone connected to the Tour. He was stunned to find out they wouldn't take them on trade because they were fakes. The guy at the shop even pointed out to him how you could see the hosels starting to bend from not being the good metal.

 

So he goes from having a set of Tour only $1200 irons to having worthless pieces of crap -- just like that.

 

 

Buyer beware. In this day and age, it's just too easy to fake almost anything. Heck, even that video above could be fake. Now think about that. LOL

 

Ouch. Did the guy he got it from not know the were fake or was he in on it?

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I have also heard rumors of factories running in the "off" hours to produce the fakes. Watching this video makes me think that the fakes would be better.

 

Fakes in other areas are all over Chinese and other markets. My folks spent a month in China years ago and they said that literally anything could be found in some of the markets. At the time, I was playing a certain collectible card game (the outing as a total nerd continues). My folks brought me home a box of cards and I started opening them. There are 36 packs in a box and it was apparent that they had maybe 3 packs off cards and copied them and filled up the remaining packs. Why I bring this up is the box was a real box, as were the wrappers around the cards. Having bought too many packs of cards, I could tell immediately that the packaging was sealed wrong, some packs still had a strong solvent smell.

 

The purpose of this sactown history moment is to realize that some of the parts of the fakes may be real. Grips, headcovers, even shafts may be authentic and only the head bogus. If the driver head is a good fake and the other parts are real, this would be a very tough fake to spot visually, probably only knowing when it broke after hitting a ball.

 

I couldn't get the video to work. Anyone kind enough to give a quick summary?

 

sactown -- grips, headcovers and even shafts that are faked are so good that an experienced clubfitter would be hard pressed to differentiate. a friend of mine who used to be a certified clubfitter (GCA?) and i took a look at some shafts brought to him by someone who picked them up near Guangzhou, China. These were top brand shafts (Fubuki, Fujikura Rombax Z, Diamana Whiteboards) where the paint and detail were really indistinguishable. Only by looking closely and comparing the shaft make-up and graphite fibers at the grip opening could one tell that they were different from the real mccoy. fully installed, they could fool 95% of the buyers. I've seen fake grips (eg., Golf Pride MultiCompound) that look identical but would feel slightly different to the original due to the difference rubber compound used.

 

(just saw the video)

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I couldn't get the video to work. Anyone kind enough to give a quick summary?

 

sactown -- grips, headcovers and even shafts that are faked are so good that an experienced clubfitter would be hard pressed to differentiate. a friend of mine who used to be a certified clubfitter (GCA?) and i took a look at some shafts brought to him by someone who picked them up near Guangzhou, China. These were top brand shafts (Fubuki, Fujikura Rombax Z, Diamana Whiteboards) where the paint and detail were really indistinguishable. Only by looking closely and comparing the shaft make-up and graphite fibers at the grip opening could one tell that they were different from the real mccoy. fully installed, they could fool 95% of the buyers. I've seen fake grips (eg., Golf Pride MultiCompound) that look identical but would feel slightly different to the original due to the difference rubber compound used.

Thanks Dave, although for some reason your post doesn't make me feel better. :P

I had a fake Aldila Proto shaft that looked identical, until you tested the flex. Listed as stiff, ended up more flexy than senior. Bought it cheap and got, pardon me here, shafted. :(

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Thanks Dave, although for some reason your post doesn't make me feel better. :)

I had a fake Aldila Proto shaft that looked identical, until you tested the flex. Listed as stiff, ended up more flexy than senior. Bought it cheap and got, pardon me here, shafted. :wacko:

 

Sorry. :)

 

These are prevalent out here in Asia and one really has to be careful when they're dealing in the second hand market. Back home -- I'm a displaced Californian myself -- I really don't see this as being a problem. Most of the foreigners who cruise out here and want to buy a cheap set do so with the full knowledge that they're doing buying fakes. Those cheap imitations are readily differentiated. As I see it, it's the ones who spend about $170 for a set of MP58s (made from the same cast molding at the factory but finished elsewhere), have them installed with their favorite shaft/grip at their clubmaker and, after playing them for a couple of months, sell them second hand to an unsuspecting buyer who are really causing the problems out here.

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Sorry. :wacko:

 

These are prevalent out here in Asia and one really has to be careful when they're dealing in the second hand market. Back home -- I'm a displaced Californian myself -- I really don't see this as being a problem. Most of the foreigners who cruise out here and want to buy a cheap set do so with the full knowledge that they're doing so. Those cheap imitations are readily differentiated. As I see it, it's the ones who spend about $170 for a set of MP58s (made from the same cast molding at the factory but finished elsewhere), have them installed with their favorite shaft/grip at their clubmaker and, after playing them for a couple of months, sell them second hand to an unsuspecting buyer who are really causing the problems out here.

So building the fakes for sale and then the secondary sale are two linked, but separate issues.

As always, if it looks too good...

What fake do you run into most often? Seems like there are fake Camerons everywhere...

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Do any of yo guys know how fakes preform? Will you get good distance out of one?

Watch that video, the golfer's face speaks volumes.

Although I have met people with fake camerons who like to putt with them. Putter may not have the same issues with strength and materials as a full swing wood or iron.

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So building the fakes for sale and then the secondary sale are two linked, but separate issues.

As always, if it looks too good...

What fake do you run into most often? Seems like there are fake Camerons everywhere...

 

Good point on the distinction. I don't see much of a problem with the former out here as most people purchase their golf gear from stores who are distributors. It's clear where their products are coming from. Fakes shops are more prevalent in places like China and Thailand. People, including locals, know which shops are selling the imitations and which shops aren't. The shop owners themselves are usually very open and will say something like these are copies or they're 'A'-grade imitations, etc. It's funny, because many local golfers in China will run across to Hong Kong not only for the wider selection, but also to make sure that they're getting the authorized goods. Here, we don't see many retailers who try and pass off imitations as the real items. So if you are looking for the authorized manufactured products, you're going to know where to get them. If you want imitations, you know where to look, although they're not always easy to find.

 

The problem we see out here more often are from those people who knowingly purchase non-authorized products (A-quality imitations or factory overruns) and then sell them as the real thing after having used them.

 

What kinds of fakes? What is available will likely shock many of you. New products include the MP58/68, Diablo forged, X forged, R9 SuperTri, Scotty's, Yes putters, '09 Burners, Burner TPs and a plethora of others. These are the factory obtained goods (either overruns, seconds, etc.); not the obvious fakes. Some are made of the same quality steel as the original while others are more suspect. Typical buyers of these goods are foreigners (Europeans, US, Singaporeans, etc.). What they do with their purchases is anyone's guess. Likely they're for personal consumption. Could be that they might try to pass them off as originals and sell them. Again, here, most locals know that these are available and, therefore, will not try to market them as anything other than imitations.

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I suppose it is silly to ask about legal enforcement of copyright? :wacko:

 

Are you seeing the fakes at the same time as the new clubs come to market?

 

There was a person on craigslist here in Sac selling camerons that were bad fakes. Their add marketed them as "Scotty Cameron Style Newport 2"

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I suppose it is silly to ask about legal enforcement of copyright? :wacko:

 

Are you seeing the fakes at the same time as the new clubs come to market?

 

There was a person on craigslist here in Sac selling camerons that were bad fakes. Their add marketed them as "Scotty Cameron Style Newport 2"

 

 

You'd be surprised. One of my good friend's sole business is involved in tracking down copyright infringers. He has almost a hundred investigators who report to him in China alone. A crackdown will usually begin with an investigator who has a lead on copyright infringement. My friend's company will then speak with their client, be they Cleveland Golf (er, Srixon now, I guess), Callaway, Microsoft, etc. Together with their legal counsel (a US firm) will then notify the Customs department in the PRC. Collectively they will set up a raid. The typical result is that the warehouse or store is manned by an employee who either doesn't -- or claims he doesn't -- know who the owner is. The goods are confiscated, and the real operator isn't caught. If they do catch the manufacturer of the fake goods, the sentence and punishment is pretty harsh. As for the A-quality golf heads I mentioned about earlier, there usually isn't anything that can be done. Callaway may be notified, but these are goods that came from the foundry. Callaway may talk to the foundry, but it's hard to identify the criminal element. A foundry worker who tosses a box of irons out the window to retrieve them at night is hard to catch. The line manager who sells known defective goods out the back door to middlemen so that he can pocket a couple thousand RMB is equally hard to corner.

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You'd be surprised. One of my good friend's sole business is involved in tracking down copyright infringers....

 

That seems like a really cool job. A lot of interesting situations I'll bet.

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Haven't seen any. A few Adams products began showing up recently but no Wilson stuff. Interestingly, there are lots of Japanese brands like Marumen, PRGR, XXIO and even some Honma.

I wonder if the Honma copies will increase now that they have moved some production to China.

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I wonder if the Honma copies will increase now that they have moved some production to China.

 

Honmas, as a brand, have always been heavily copied. The Japanese brands I listed earlier represent the brands with seconds or refinished heads from the foundries that are available, primarily driver and fwy woods. Tourstage and Mizzy as well.

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Honmas, as a brand, have always been heavily copied. The Japanese brands I listed earlier represent the brands with seconds or refinished heads from the foundries that are available, primarily driver and fwy woods. Tourstage and Mizzy as well.

 

Mizuno!?! Why don't you just stick the dagger in and twist it too! Do any of them make their way to the US?

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Mizuno!?! Why don't you just stick the dagger in and twist it too! Do any of them make their way to the US?

 

Sorry to have touched your weak spot. I don't know if any of these find their way to the US, but if they did, I suspect the volume would be insignificant. As long as you stick to authorized distribution channels, you shouldn't encounter any of them.

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