Jump to content

Will a Stroke Lab shaft perform better than a steel shaft?


cnosil

Recommended Posts

Strokelab for the win!!

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Day 2 of testing.   Epoxy is dry and my first reaction is this putter is heavy.   22 grams is roughly the equivalent of 2 AAA batteries so you would not think it was much but I guess it comes down to how the weigh is distributed.  Performed the same the same test this morning that I did yesterday with the steel shaft.   

While I did choke down, the 34" length felt very awkward.  Pretty sure there is a 30g counterweight in the putter so maybe having that weight above my hands made it feel really off.   

Looking at the overall summary of random distances what jumps out are the face control numbers especially at 0-10 and 30+ feet.  General observations was that the path numbers were very variable and it felt like the putter fell to the inside.   Probably the added weight and it was something I could fix with a little more grip pressure.   Generally felt like the overall results of the putt were really good or really bad which made the averages close to the steel shaft. Feel was a little more muted that with the steel shaft so someone that favors the softer feel over the click feel would like the change.    Initial favor; probably due to familiarity, goes to the steel shaft. 

slrandompractice.jpg.72af88a00a4725e743a5bbabe2cc67bb.jpg

 

When looking at 20' specific putts,  you start to see a dispersion pattern that favors a little more on the long side but is also wider.  

sl20feet.jpg.cc047e94226a26019f411138b8c63d3b.jpg

Sorry about the blurry photo, but the relevant information is pretty clear.   We see a ball speed average of 6.8 which is a little faster than the steel.  The ball direction is not bad but more to the right than with the steel.  Average distance is a little longer as we discussed.  The average path is about 1 degree more to the right.  Face angle at impact averaged 0 but favored being a little right.   

sl20practice.jpg.7ad68c6f59856d345781e080c4ac38d1.jpg

 

Summary:  The increased ball speed is definitely nice for someone that tends to leave putts short.   Definitely need to cut the putter down a little; which I will probably do today before my scheduled round tomorrow.    I am a little concerned about the total weight and balance.  Looking across my clubs,  my shafts are on the light side so putter might also need to reflect this preference.  

Thank you for taking the time to do this test for all of us to review.  

Just curious.

Any sense on why the Stroke Lab is so much heavier than a stock steel shaft?  I was not aware there was that big a difference in weight with these type of after market type shafts. 

:titelist-small:  TSR 3   9.0  GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small:  TSi 3  15.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small: TS3  21 Hybrid Tensei AV Blue 65 HY Stiff

:titelist-small: U-510 19 Utility Iron HZDUS Smoke Black 6.0 Stiff

:Takomo:  5-PW 101T Irons - KBS Tour Lite Stiff - Official Tester 2023

:vokey-small: Vokey SM9 52 F - 12 Nippon NS Pro 950 Stiff

:vokey-small: Vokey Forged 56 M - 10  DG S200

:taylormade-small: MG3 60 - 12 NS Modus3 Tour 105 Stiff

image.gif.2bc8a27613a423a3721fd3b955802132.gif  Scotty Special Select - Squareback 2 - 35”  / Super Stroke Slim 3.0

 :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

 :titelist-small: Players 4 bag  image.png.939559f85230fe16347ecf2765438915.png

 :Arccos: Official Tester - 2021 & Loyal MCC Plus 4 Sensor User

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

Thank you for taking the time to do this test for all of us to review.  

Just curious.

Any sense on why the Stroke Lab is so much heavier than a stock steel shaft?  I was not aware there was that big a difference in weight with these type of after market type shafts. 

No problem,  I am having fun testing this out to see the impact.   

I think we all think that steel is heavier that the graphite shafts.  Looking at the various shafts,  they come in abut the same weight but construction for some is designed to increase swingweight.  Great for someone that likes to feel/move the head; probably not great for someone that likes to move their hands.    We could also look at the Fujikura shafts and they all weight the same but have different flex profiles which probably impacts how the putter feels.  When you start to cut these down, graphite will probably maintain more of the weight too.   The steel shaft I originally had in the putter is 105g but probably started as 120ish before being trimmed to length.   I'm going to trim my stroke lab shortly so I should be able to get some weights for that shaft.   Below are some weight comparisons for the various shafts,  but I don't know balance points.  

Graphite weights

  • BGT Stability One - 115 g
  • BGT Stability Tour - 102g
  • BGT Stability Carbon - 125g
  • KBS GPS - 124g
  • LA Golf - 105g, 135g, 180g
  • Accra Sync - 85g, 135g
  • Mitsubishi Diamana - 138g
  • Mitsubishi MMT - 135g 
  • Fujikura MC - 115g
  • Aerotech - 125g
  • UST All-in graphite - 126g
  • UST All-in steel tip - 109g

Steel Weights

  • KBS One Step - 130g
  • KBS Tour and CT Tour - 124 g
  • True Temper - 120g, 127g 
  • Apollo - 120g

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

No problem,  I am having fun testing this out to see the impact.   

I think we all think that steel is heavier that the graphite shafts.  Looking at the various shafts,  they come in abut the same weight but construction for some is designed to increase swingweight.  Great for someone that likes to feel/move the head; probably not great for someone that likes to move their hands.    We could also look at the Fujikura shafts and they all weight the same but have different flex profiles which probably impacts how the putter feels.  When you start to cut these down, graphite will probably maintain more of the weight too.   The steel shaft I originally had in the putter is 105g but probably started as 120ish before being trimmed to length.   I'm going to trim my stroke lab shortly so I should be able to get some weights for that shaft.   Below are some weight comparisons for the various shafts,  but I don't know balance points.  

Graphite weights

  • BGT Stability One - 115 g
  • BGT Stability Tour - 102g
  • BGT Stability Carbon - 125g
  • KBS GPS - 124g
  • LA Golf - 105g, 135g, 180g
  • Accra Sync - 85g, 135g
  • Mitsubishi Diamana - 138g
  • Mitsubishi MMT - 135g 
  • Fujikura MC - 115g
  • Aerotech - 125g
  • UST All-in graphite - 126g
  • UST All-in steel tip - 109g

Steel Weights

  • KBS One Step - 130g
  • KBS Tour and CT Tour - 124 g
  • True Temper - 120g, 127g 
  • Apollo - 120g

Thank you for the great info!  Looking forward to hearing how the Stroke Lab performs on the course!

:titelist-small:  TSR 3   9.0  GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small:  TSi 3  15.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small: TS3  21 Hybrid Tensei AV Blue 65 HY Stiff

:titelist-small: U-510 19 Utility Iron HZDUS Smoke Black 6.0 Stiff

:Takomo:  5-PW 101T Irons - KBS Tour Lite Stiff - Official Tester 2023

:vokey-small: Vokey SM9 52 F - 12 Nippon NS Pro 950 Stiff

:vokey-small: Vokey Forged 56 M - 10  DG S200

:taylormade-small: MG3 60 - 12 NS Modus3 Tour 105 Stiff

image.gif.2bc8a27613a423a3721fd3b955802132.gif  Scotty Special Select - Squareback 2 - 35”  / Super Stroke Slim 3.0

 :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

 :titelist-small: Players 4 bag  image.png.939559f85230fe16347ecf2765438915.png

 :Arccos: Official Tester - 2021 & Loyal MCC Plus 4 Sensor User

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can say I love the stone Stroke Lab shaft that's in my Odyssey. I'm thinking about buying one to have installed in the Agera and seeing if it can help me putt better with it. 

Thanks for sharing this experiment with us and I'm looking forward to what you find out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have disassembled the stroke lab shaft.  As expected,  there was a 30g counterweight epoxied into the butt end of the club.  The grip weighed in at a hefty 76g.  This means that the stroke lab shaft is 79 grams which includes a steel tip section.   In my opinion seeing these numbers it is clear that the shaft isn't designed for super stability but for weight dispersion (which is what they state it is for).    

Next steps are to experiment with grip and weight.  Going to try using the grip that came with the club.  Yes I cut it off,  but I can experiment 🙂   Just swinging the club,  I like how it feels so keeping it light will be interesting.  Overall weight is now 510g. 

IMG_0855.JPG.584b4fa1d92547e3635c16615e802940.JPGIMG_0857.JPG.31dfeb5180223a2e1495f9c68c957274.JPGIMG_0859.JPG.fa5b463aeadf8e9d4143feecedb0e678.JPG

 

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did a quick set of 20' putts.  Really like the feel of the putter.  I believe that the 510-520g total weight is a sweet spot for me.  Putter felt really good with no backweight and the 76g grip.   Path was much tighter and face angle was really good.  Speed might be a touch too high but seems to be consistent.   My thought is that there might be a little more flex in the shaft that gives it a little extra ball speed.    

20again1.jpg.d680c48139207c9e1789c08144832df8.jpg

20again.jpg.70619d4e9cb261f0dd9bfe3483bf9784.jpg

 

Time to get the putter setup for tomorrow.   Think I am going with the grip that was on the previous putter (57g) and the 30g backweight.   This will add about 10g to the total weight making it 520g.   Next test will be actual course time!

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, cnosil said:

My current gamer is a Taylormade TM-180 putter.   This putter was my gamer for may years and then I went through some putter swaps and it is now back in the bag and has been performing well.   I have always wondered what the impact of a shaft change might be.  Shaft changes could be weight, flex, material, etc.  Many shaft manufacturers have come out with upgraded shafts and I wonder how they might influence my stroke.   While browsing online I found a used stroke lab shaft that was very affordable so I bought it and have installed it in the above mentioned Taylormade putter.    While many of the new graphite shafts are designed to be super stiff and "stable" the stroke labs was designed to move weight from the shaft into the head and grip.    

1019770-aaa.jpg?s=350

 

To test the shafts,  I am using my ExPutt simulator and hitting a bunch of random distance putts and then hitting fifty 20 foot putts to look at dispersion and face control.  

Putter specs:

  • Steel Shaft:   33" length, 517g total weight,  355g head, 162g shaft and grip (105g shaft 57g grip).   I didn't remove the grip I had another of the same grip and weighed it.
  • Stroke Lab:  34" length, 539g total weight, 355g head, 185g shaft and grip.   I plan on cutting the putter down to 33" but going to test the putter unmodified since I don't want to remove the grip yet. 

I was a little surprised by the weight of the stroke lab shaft.   While it does have counterweighting,  I expected it to be lighter than the steel shaft.  Since I plan on shortening the putter,  I will remove the grip and counterweight to get the shaft weight.   The putter head is probably a little on the light side;  it seems that most stroke lab putters have 365g heads but the Odyssey OG putters are 350g so I am within a range that Odyssey uses.  

 

The below image shows the summary of random distances on a 9 stimp green.   Overall not bad; but dispersion seems big in the 30-50 foot range, the directional bias is a little left, and speed control in the 0-10 foot range is a little on the high side.

randomoriginal.jpg.a6ae5b4d32613067f71bd0189b2dc7f3.jpg

 

The below images shows the results of fifty 20' putts.  Speed control wasn't bad;  the bottom image shows that the dispersion pattern was about 6 feet deep from front too back.  Putter path was about 1 degree right and face angle was slightly closed.  With an average face angle of 0.2 I am well within the range of making 20 foot putts.  

 

20footoriginal-practicescreen.jpg.ea3c3948b6a33e239a7b77af8bf15010.jpg

20footoriginal.jpg.a9ee0ed03db84bbe2cb86b9707e94c7f.jpg

 

Overall performance with the steel shaft wasn't too bad and in my opinion will be tough to beat.    I have switched out the shaft and the epoxy is currently drying.   I plan on testing the stroke lab shaft on the ExPutt tomorrow and then getting it out to the course on Sunday.   

 

 

 

Switching from my Scotty Cameron with steel to a stroke lab, I found the shaft results to be marginal with the exception of feel. I felt more feedback, or more focused feedback would be a better term. Very interested to see what data you find. 

I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf!

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, ProjectX HZRDUS Smoke Black

Titleist TSi2 18 Degree Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX Hexcel

Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours S

Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M

Odyssey Stroke Lab 2 Ball 10 

Nike VR Tour Staff Bag

Titleist Pro V1x and Vice Pro Plus

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First round with the newly modified putter.   Greens were Bermuda, large in size, with lots of undulations, and were probably running 10-11.   I'm not doing any stat tracking so I won't be able to provide objective data.   General impression is that the putter is working well;  even one of my playing partners commented on how well I was putting.   My general feeling is that the stroke lab is significantly different than the stability type shafts in that it has a little kick.    While I didn't get all my putts; nor would I expect to, past the hole I felt like there was a little more ball speed than I normally have.   

In total 32 putts on the day;  lots of longish first putts:

  1.  30 feet up over a ridge.  hit about 10 feet past the hole.  made the comeback putt.
  2.  12 feet.  putt burnt the edge, rolled about 2 feet past
  3.  20 feet.  putt to about 6 inches short
  4.  20 feet.  putt to 2 feet left.  
  5.  22 feet.  putt to 3 feet short.  made second.
  6.  10 feet.  4 feet past.  made comeback
  7.  used putter from off the green to 1 foot.
  8.  used putter from off the green to 2  feet.
  9.  used putter from off the green to 1 foot.
  10.  40 feet up steep hill to 8 feet.  made putt. 
  11.  60 feet that rolled off the green.  used putter from off the green; hit pin and bounced 1 foot past.
  12.  15 feet to 2 feet right
  13.  20 foot putt to 3 feet short.
  14.  18 feet to 2 feet past
  15.  70 feet to 6 feet shot.
  16.  15 feet to 3 feet right
  17.  4 feet
  18.  35 feet to 2 feet right.  

While I can't say that the putter with the stroke lab is better than steel the outing was positive.   Not going to make a generate a massive savings in stroke but hoping long term I am making a few more of the 6-1'5' putts.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2023 at 11:07 PM, cnosil said:

I have disassembled the stroke lab shaft.  As expected,  there was a 30g counterweight epoxied into the butt end of the club.  The grip weighed in at a hefty 76g.  This means that the stroke lab shaft is 79 grams which includes a steel tip section.   In my opinion seeing these numbers it is clear that the shaft isn't designed for super stability but for weight dispersion (which is what they state it is for).    

Next steps are to experiment with grip and weight.  Going to try using the grip that came with the club.  Yes I cut it off,  but I can experiment 🙂   Just swinging the club,  I like how it feels so keeping it light will be interesting.  Overall weight is now 510g. 

IMG_0855.JPG.584b4fa1d92547e3635c16615e802940.JPGIMG_0857.JPG.31dfeb5180223a2e1495f9c68c957274.JPGIMG_0859.JPG.fa5b463aeadf8e9d4143feecedb0e678.JPG

 

 

I do recall TXG doing a video comparing one of the stability shafts and Strokelab saying exactly what you pointed out. It is for weight and balance vs rigid/stable feel.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, cnosil said:

First round with the newly modified putter.   Greens were Bermuda, large in size, with lots of undulations, and were probably running 10-11.   I'm not doing any stat tracking so I won't be able to provide objective data.   General impression is that the putter is working well;  even one of my playing partners commented on how well I was putting.   My general feeling is that the stroke lab is significantly different than the stability type shafts in that it has a little kick.    While I didn't get all my putts; nor would I expect to, past the hole I felt like there was a little more ball speed than I normally have.   

In total 32 putts on the day;  lots of longish first putts:

  1.  30 feet up over a ridge.  hit about 10 feet past the hole.  made the comeback putt.
  2.  12 feet.  putt burnt the edge, rolled about 2 feet past
  3.  20 feet.  putt to about 6 inches short
  4.  20 feet.  putt to 2 feet left.  
  5.  22 feet.  putt to 3 feet short.  made second.
  6.  10 feet.  4 feet past.  made comeback
  7.  used putter from off the green to 1 foot.
  8.  used putter from off the green to 2  feet.
  9.  used putter from off the green to 1 foot.
  10.  40 feet up steep hill to 8 feet.  made putt. 
  11.  60 feet that rolled off the green.  used putter from off the green; hit pin and bounced 1 foot past.
  12.  15 feet to 2 feet right
  13.  20 foot putt to 3 feet short.
  14.  18 feet to 2 feet past
  15.  70 feet to 6 feet shot.
  16.  15 feet to 3 feet right
  17.  4 feet
  18.  35 feet to 2 feet right.  

While I can't say that the putter with the stroke lab is better than steel the outing was positive.   Not going to make a generate a massive savings in stroke but hoping long term I am making a few more of the 6-1'5' putts.  

This looks really promising! 

:titelist-small:  TSR 3   9.0  GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small:  TSi 3  15.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small: TS3  21 Hybrid Tensei AV Blue 65 HY Stiff

:titelist-small: U-510 19 Utility Iron HZDUS Smoke Black 6.0 Stiff

:Takomo:  5-PW 101T Irons - KBS Tour Lite Stiff - Official Tester 2023

:vokey-small: Vokey SM9 52 F - 12 Nippon NS Pro 950 Stiff

:vokey-small: Vokey Forged 56 M - 10  DG S200

:taylormade-small: MG3 60 - 12 NS Modus3 Tour 105 Stiff

image.gif.2bc8a27613a423a3721fd3b955802132.gif  Scotty Special Select - Squareback 2 - 35”  / Super Stroke Slim 3.0

 :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

 :titelist-small: Players 4 bag  image.png.939559f85230fe16347ecf2765438915.png

 :Arccos: Official Tester - 2021 & Loyal MCC Plus 4 Sensor User

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve just put (1 month) a Stability shaft into my Mizuno m-craft VI with a Super Stroke Flatso 2.0 XL grip and 25g weight and my putting has got more consistent, especially distance control. Now is the shaft the cause, who knows, but right now my combination is working. Probably all in my head, but you know what Arnie said about the 6 inches between your ears

:tour-edge: C721 9.5 Project X Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX
:tour-edge: C721 15 Project X Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX
:tour-edge: C721 18 Project X Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX
:tour-edge:EXS220 22 Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black
:tour-edge: EXS Pro Forged 5-PW True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 Stiff
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50/SS True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 X Stiff (8i shaft)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54/SS True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 X Stiff (8i shaft)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 58/SS True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 X Stiff (8i shaft)
:mizuno-small: M-Craft VI with BGT Stability shaft and Super Stroke Zenergy XL Flatso 2.0 (25g CounterCore weight)
seed.png.34e6908c56b2f4a28f3511fa62a86f0d.png SD-01 ball 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the great, detailed information here!  Interested in a follow-up after a few more rounds to see if it the results change at all.

Driver - Titleist TS2 

3 Wood - TaylorMade Rocketballz 2

Hybrids - Taylormade Rescue knockoffs

Irons - Taylormade Burner 2.0

52 Degree - Cleveland CG14

56 Degree - Titleist Vokey BV

60 Degree - Ping Glide 3.0

Ball - Depends if I find in or have to pay for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I appreciate your analysis and the effort it takes to come up with results. I personally find it interesting and thank you.

 :ping-small: G400 Max driver,  Alta CB shaft R

:callaway-small: heavenwood

:cobra-small: Hybrids - 3 and 4 set to different settings depending on course. Sometimes a Taylormade 4

Maltby STi2 irons 5-GW, Fujikura Shaft

:vokey-small: 54, 58

:taylormade-small: Ardmore 3 putter

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Krls032022 said:

Goodness gracious in my opinion paralysis by analysis 

Which is a fine opinion and this is not something everyone wants to see or do.   But this is kind of the MGS way and I am in essence fitting myself to a putter to see if I can make it better from a performance perspective.   Basically using the tools that I have to see if a putter shaft can improve my performance. The short answer is yes, things like shaft, grip, and total weight impact feel which influences performance.  Just walking into a store, finding a putter that looks good, and rolling a couple of putts is not the way to choose a putter.   Nor is just picking the putter that wins on tour (re: Jailbird and Cameron) 

 

2 hours ago, EugeGall said:

I’ve just put (1 month) a Stability shaft into my Mizuno m-craft VI with a Super Stroke Flatso 2.0 XL grip and 25g weight and my putting has got more consistent, especially distance control. Now is the shaft the cause, who knows, but right now my combination is working.

I’d like to try a stability type shaft to see its influence.  Maybe after a few weeks with the stroke lab.  Probably would be an UST All-in since that is the cheapest option.  The big thing is that you won’t see dramatic differences,  probably degree or two in path and face control or narrowing the dispersion pattern by less than a foot.   
 

59 minutes ago, Bradka13 said:

Thank you for the great, detailed information here!  Interested in a follow-up after a few more rounds to see if it the results change at all.

that is my plan.  Going to see how my putting is over time.  I don’t think one round tells much.  This type of change is something that needs to be looked at over months and many rounds.   I should really have data from the steel shaft over a long period as well; but unfortunately I don’t.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 This type of change is something that needs to be looked at over months and many rounds. 

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Everyone has had those rounds that everything seemed to go in regardless of if it was mishit or misread.  Unfortunately, everyone has also had the round where it seems either they completely forgot everything they knew about putting or someone tampered with their putter.  I usually blame it on putter tampering.😆

Driver - Titleist TS2 

3 Wood - TaylorMade Rocketballz 2

Hybrids - Taylormade Rescue knockoffs

Irons - Taylormade Burner 2.0

52 Degree - Cleveland CG14

56 Degree - Titleist Vokey BV

60 Degree - Ping Glide 3.0

Ball - Depends if I find in or have to pay for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Bradka13 said:

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Everyone has had those rounds that everything seemed to go in regardless of if it was mishit or misread.  Unfortunately, everyone has also had the round where it seems either they completely forgot everything they knew about putting or someone tampered with their putter.  I usually blame it on putter tampering.😆

But, sometimes it is easy to tell when things are wrong.  I learned very quickly that the overall heavy weight of the putter just didn’t work for me when I made the initial change.  I am saying it was the weight simply because of how I responded to the putter when I reduced the weight.  I think weight, But it could have just been the balance of the putter.   This is why fitters only have people make a few swings/strokes with a club before changing something; I probably could have gotten used to the weight given enough time.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any body opine on installing a large grip , Super Stroke or Fatso, on the putter?  I found a big improvement.  On practice green so far.  I put a Pistol 3.0 on a cheap face balanced putter.  Much better stability, less twisting at the wrist.

Driver: PXG 0211, A flex Evnflo Riptide (2021). And an old Callaway 454 TI (2004) on regular flex.

3 W: Callaway Steelhead Xr A flex Tensei CK 55 gram. The rest are Regular flex.

5 W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent regular flex.

Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex.

4 iron:  Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hybrid iron, GFF, even tho it is a hollow body iron.

6,7,8,9,wedge: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex shafts.

Gap wedges: 52 x 9 Mizuno forged S5, wedge shaft; 60 x 6 Mizuno forged T7, wedge shaft.

Sand: Old original Hogan Sure Out on Apex original shaft, probably 56 / 12.

Chipper:  (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin "Up n In" bronze? copper? 🙂

Putter: Just switched Jan 2024 to a Odyssey Stroke lab "R" Ball with the 2 piece, multi material shaft.🙃

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Any body opine on installing a large grip , Super Stroke or Fatso, on the putter?  I found a big improvement.  On practice green so far.  I put a Pistol 3.0 on a cheap face balanced putter.  Much better stability, less twisting at the wrist.

Nope, I personally hate larger grips.  Tried them a few times and just doesn’t feel right to me.  You can also stop twisting of the wrist by tightening your grip a little.    
 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wanted to add a little background to this thread.   I am a putter ho and just like to try and experiment with different putters. I know, not great for my game but it’s what we do.   

Back in the early 2000s my favorite forum was Putter Talk and one of the regular contributors was Bruce Rearick who is putting instructor.  His company is Burnt Edges Consulting.  I like what he posted and began working with him in about 2010 and learned a ton about putting, fitting, and the putting stroke.  If you want to read some of his material you can find it here: https://brucerearick.substack.com

i follow him on other social platforms since Putter Talk is no more 🥲 and always listen to podcasts where he is a guest.  

I’ve talked to him a couple of times about graphite shafts in general.  One if his latest podcasts is about shafts and shaft flexes so it got me thinking.  

https://gameimprovementgolf.com/213-making-sense-of-putter-shaft-flex-bruce-rearick-interview/

I thought the information he presented on the “stability” shafts and the player profile they may benefit was really interesting.  People always say that the stroke is so slow that steel doesn’t flex, but he references shafts like the TP Mills pencil shaft, Headspeed shafts, and YSC shafts that have different profiles that influence feel and tempo of the stroke.   As a result of this podcast and the fact that I came across a stroke lab shaft for a very cheap price I figured an experiment was in order.   Future updates might be an All-in shaft and a YSC shaft.  I have a couple of uncut YSC shafts but since they are .355 tip size I’d have to modify the post on the putter to make it fit and didn’t want to do that right away since the stroke lab was .370.   Hmmm, maybe retrofit the strokelab with the tip section from a YSC  🤔

Yep, taking my putter tinkering to a new level with this experiment.   Is this for everyone? Definitely not.   Will the results be dramatic?  Probably not, although the path changes with the heavier putter seemed fairly significant…but path has little to do with putting results.  The putter weight change also had a little bit of influence on face rotation and in my mind shifting face direction at impact could be considered significant.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have u ever tried cross handed?  Brian Harman, and the 19 yr old LPGA winner 2 weeks ago both do, and for me, the key was figuring out exactly what to do, where to place, the front low hand.  I cite thosw 2 because from what I see on tv they are same as I finally landed on.  I put the low hnand in a fairly conventional slight overlap grip, and put the index finger on the shaft.  It took me a while but it works well for me.  It works for any face balanced putter for me, malletts.  TM Spyder SX-72, Scotty futura x, the just discontinued Cleveland HB 14, etc.

Driver: PXG 0211, A flex Evnflo Riptide (2021). And an old Callaway 454 TI (2004) on regular flex.

3 W: Callaway Steelhead Xr A flex Tensei CK 55 gram. The rest are Regular flex.

5 W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent regular flex.

Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex.

4 iron:  Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hybrid iron, GFF, even tho it is a hollow body iron.

6,7,8,9,wedge: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex shafts.

Gap wedges: 52 x 9 Mizuno forged S5, wedge shaft; 60 x 6 Mizuno forged T7, wedge shaft.

Sand: Old original Hogan Sure Out on Apex original shaft, probably 56 / 12.

Chipper:  (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin "Up n In" bronze? copper? 🙂

Putter: Just switched Jan 2024 to a Odyssey Stroke lab "R" Ball with the 2 piece, multi material shaft.🙃

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curious about this thread because I have Odyssey V-Line mallets with both steel and Stroke Lab shafts. I have identical grips installed on both, they are exactly the same length and MOI. I find I putt well with both and the slight difference in feel doesn't matter to me. I use a SBST stroke with a traditional grip and the lead hand in a strong position (on top of the shaft - player view). My main struggle is speed control on varying surfaces and longer putts (30'+).

In an effort to control this better, I have experimented with the weighting of the head using the removable sole weights (+/-20G). I find the heavier weight helps slow my stroke down on fast greens10-12 stimp) and the lighter weight gives me extra speed when on slow greens (9 and below). So I began carrying spare weights so I can adjust depending on course conditions. My experience is that it has helped with my performance when dealing with varying green speeds in general.

Just curious if anyone else has found success or uses a lighter putter on slow greens and a heavier one for fast greens.

BT 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

. My main struggle is speed control on varying surfaces and longer putts (30'+).

Just curious if anyone else has found success or uses a lighter putter on slow greens and a heavier one for fast greens.

 


different weightings has been a suggested approach in the industry, but changing weight will most likely change the dynamics of stroke and how the putter performs beyond just distance control.  There have been a couple of threads on this and some people change weights and some don’t.  It’s a personal decision to figure out what works for you.  I’ve done an Edel fitting and they suggested the weight kit to adjust for green speed.   I personally choose to dial in distance control with the feel of a single putter weight.
 

Can you clarify your struggle?  What is your performance like?  What are your expectations?  How do you practice distance control?  How do you dial it in on the course? 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Week 2 with the stroke lab.  Bad week of golf;  only hit 6 greens so you would think the putting numbers would be low because the ball would be closer to the hole.   You would be thinking incorrectly. 🤣    But that is not really the focus on this thread.   

Greens speeds were pretty quick again today;  I am guessing 11 to 11.5 since my 20 foot calibration stroke was going about 27 feet.  

Overall, 32 putts with a three putt on 18 from about 65 feet.  I am really liking the feel of the putter specifically how it feels like the shaft is loading a little bit.  I believe my face control on short putts is improved; the ball just seems to start on my intended line....even if it is the wrong read 🙂   My playing  partners seem to be surprised if I miss anything inside of 10 feet.   When I start getting outside of 20 feet I do have a bit of an issue with distance control and need to get the ball closer.  Right now the good thing is that I am making those 6-8 foot second putts. 

Is a stroke lab better than a steel shaft?  It appears that so far the stroke lab performs better for me.  The question I still have is why?  While like the feel better,  could it be simply how I distributed the weight?  Could it be how the shaft loads?  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hit some putts on my ExPutt last night and I am loving the feel of the putter and also how it is performing.  
 

Whenever the topic of shafts and putters come up the opinions are always divided between they make a difference and the putter doesn’t swing fast enough to make a difference.   taking shaft selection further we get into Putter fitting which is also a divisive topic where people fall into the it’s all about looks, feel, and confidence versus performance evaluation.  As I have done these experiments it proves to me that putter fitting is important and is more than just looking at blade vs mallet and toe hang.  A putters total weight needs to be considered since it impacts feel.   Shafts whether steel or some other material also influence the players stroke.  IMO, Players that stand on the it’s all about feel soap box would be able to dial in that all important feel with different shafts.  I’m not a feel on the feel/mechanical scale but the feel that the putter provides is amazing and just feels so balanced.   Todays trend and most people go heavier with their putters;  perhaps lighter should still be a consideration during fittings. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/14/2023 at 10:05 AM, cnosil said:


different weightings has been a suggested approach in the industry, but changing weight will most likely change the dynamics of stroke and how the putter performs beyond just distance control.  There have been a couple of threads on this and some people change weights and some don’t.  It’s a personal decision to figure out what works for you.  I’ve done an Edel fitting and they suggested the weight kit to adjust for green speed.   I personally choose to dial in distance control with the feel of a single putter weight.
 

Can you clarify your struggle?  What is your performance like?  What are your expectations?  How do you practice distance control?  How do you dial it in on the course? 

Not necessarily a struggle, just striving for the highest consistency in every aspect. I tended to come up short more often than usual when facing slower greens (8 or lower). I tried lightening the head by about 10g and it helped as my normal effort equated to slightly more ball speed. In essence, I was able to putt a bit firmer using my normal stroke instead of having to re-calibrate (in my mind) excessively. On any given day, I usually first ask if the practice green compares well with the course greens. If so, I putt several 8-10 foot putts level, uphill and downhill. After that, I work at varying distances out to 40' with a single ball putting out each time to push myself to proper speed judgement. I usually spend about 20-25 mins on the putting green before going to the range. I like to go straight from the range to first tee so that full shots are freshest in my mind. Getting off the first tee well is paramount to a successful round for me.

BT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

Not necessarily a struggle, just striving for the highest consistency in every aspect. I tended to come up short more often than usual when facing slower greens (8 or lower). I tried lightening the head by about 10g and it helped as my normal effort equated to slightly more ball speed. In essence, I was able to putt a bit firmer using my normal stroke instead of having to re-calibrate (in my mind) excessively. On any given day, I usually first ask if the practice green compares well with the course greens. If so, I putt several 8-10 foot putts level, uphill and downhill. After that, I work at varying distances out to 40' with a single ball putting out each time to push myself to proper speed judgement. I usually spend about 20-25 mins on the putting green before going to the range. I like to go straight from the range to first tee so that full shots are freshest in my mind. Getting off the first tee well is paramount to a successful round for me.

BT

Sounds like you are doing what you should be doing.   The calibration is essentially building your feels for the day.   I personally just like keeping the equipment consistent from round to round because I believe from my experiences that changing weight impacts more than just the distance control aspect of putting.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...