2023 Rahms New Putter

[GolfSpy_APH]

https://golf.com/gear/putters/jon-rahm-odyssey-putter-wall/

Some interesting stuff and it apparently looks like Callaway is starting to put some AI tech into the putter faces.

Will be great to see when they come market!

[jdparker]

It's interesting to see the new tech and how much it can change the game.  

[fixyurdivot]

Just before the Ryder Cup .

[Fongle]

Keen to see how the Robo-Rossie plays

[KC Golf]

Looks pretty sweet. .Rambo is a streaky putter, so if he gets hot next week, watch out! 

[cnosil]

The AI designed face is where my interest lies.   My current guess is that the tech is similar to EvnRoll sweet face, Ping TR grooves, or Bobby Grace HSM faces where ball speed is influenced based on ball impact location.  

[cnosil]

13 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Just before the Ryder Cup .

Probably zero influence on the stroke or feels.  Same weighting and setup with the AI having minimal impact on the putts for a player that hits the center of the face. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The AI designed face is where my interest lies.   My current guess is that the tech is similar to EvnRoll sweet face, Ping TR grooves, or Bobby Grace HSM faces where ball speed is influenced based on ball impact location.  

Which is more interesting as looking at the putter face in those photos it doesnt seem to have any grooves or anything other than being another white hot insert. 

[Ben Joest]

6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Which is more interesting as looking at the putter face in those photos it doesnt seem to have any grooves or anything other than being another white hot insert. 

Which begs the question, what can AI do, if anything, to alter or improve an existing technology like the White Hot insert? I personally like the white hot putters and have gamed a couple different iterations. I’m keeping an eye on this one, for sure.

[fixyurdivot]

That's what gets me about all the AI hype when we're talking two places right of the decimal point.

[cnosil]

13 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Which is more interesting as looking at the putter face in those photos it doesnt seem to have any grooves or anything other than being another white hot insert. 

 

6 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

Which begs the question, what can AI do, if anything, to alter or improve an existing technology like the White Hot insert? I personally like the white hot putters and have gamed a couple different iterations. I’m keeping an eye on this one, for sure.

While Bobby Graces HSM now has grooves, the early iterations did not.  My guess is that is will be controlled by face thickness behind the white hot insert.  Consistent ball speed but still provide the feel for a miss hit.   Look at the Callaway AI designed driver faces. I am thinking the same theory behind the white hot face   

 

 

4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

That's what gets me about all the AI hype when we're talking two places right of the decimal point.

Golf kind of gets down to the numbers  to the right of the decimal point.   Smash factor (impact ratio for putters) is about the numbers to the right of the decimal.  face control is about the numbers after the decimal.  We want less than 1 degree of error.   
 

if you miss hit your driver and the AI design can turn that toe strike from a smash factor of 1.41 to 1.45 isnt that a good thing?   

[GolfSpy_APH]

@cnosil definitely agree with the face thickness part. Most certainly has something to do with it. Given how the whitehot insert is (this is also assuming it is in fact a white hot of sorts as Rahm has said many times how much he likes it) if there would be much of a different feel between the thickness areas. I know the microhinge white hot was super soft and pillowy while the whitehot regular felt more normal so to speak. 

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

if there would be much of a different feel between the thickness areas. 

I definitely think there will be a different feel.  When I play I want  a different feel on miss hits.  Being able to differentiate heel, center, toe is key in assessing a miss.  If the face feels the same you have no idea if it was stroke or something else.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

16 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I definitely think there will be a different feel.  When I play I want  a different feel on miss hits.  Being able to differentiate heel, center, toe is key in assessing a miss.  If the face feels the same you have no idea if it was stroke or something else.  

But then would't you feel like a putter striking king!! Joking of course, but I think what I was trying to convey is the really mooshy feel was not so well received and I think if it did go that route it wouldn't be as well liked. Having a firmer feel, but maybe a more audible response could be the preferred formula. Just my thoughts. 

[KC Golf]

26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

But then would't you feel like a putter striking king!! Joking of course, but I think what I was trying to convey is the really mooshy feel was not so well received and I think if it did go that route it wouldn't be as well liked. Having a firmer feel, but maybe a more audible response could be the preferred formula. Just my thoughts. 

It may be purely psychological, but I like a metal milled face.  Better sound and a feel of solid contact vs an insert.  I have used a variety insert putters and I just don’t like it totally based on feel.

[cnosil]

22 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

It may be purely psychological, but I like a metal milled face.  Better sound and a feel of solid contact vs an insert.  I have used a variety insert putters and I just don’t like it totally based on feel.

Everyone has personal opinions on what they like and what you like isn’t bad or wrong.   I will say that based on design of the putter an insert can feel more solid than a non insert face.   For example milling depth and face thickness will make a putter feel softer or firmer.  If you look at the progression of Odyssey inserts you can find a variety of feedback that range for. Too soft to too firm.  

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Golf kind of gets down to the numbers  to the right of the decimal point.   Smash factor (impact ratio for putters) is about the numbers to the right of the decimal.  face control is about the numbers after the decimal.  We want less than 1 degree of error.   
 

if you miss hit your driver and the AI design can turn that toe strike from a smash factor of 1.41 to 1.45 isnt that a good thing?   

Sure, for drivers, woods, and irons... but even that's small pickings in the grand scheme of course play and scoring.  Moving into putters, for me, this just starts to get more marketing gizmo than anything the vast majority of players will ever see in their putting performance.  Look, I'm just more of a skeptic than most when it comes to the "latest and greatest" and marketing buzz.  Perhaps 30 years in aerospace skewed my perspective .

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Sure, for drivers, woods, and irons... but even that's small pickings in the grand scheme of course play and scoring.  Moving into putters, for me, this just starts to get more marketing gizmo than anything the vast majority of players will ever see in their putting performance.  Look, I'm just more of a skeptic than most when it comes to the "latest and greatest" and marketing buzz.  Perhaps 30 years in aerospace skewed my perspective .

I get your perspective.  However, haven’t you been posting about not being happy with your putting and missing too many “short” putts?  Answer this: How may degrees of error do you have to make/miss a straight 10 foot putt? 

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I get your perspective.  However, haven’t you been posting about not being happy with your putting and missing too many “short” putts?  Answer this: How may degrees of error do you have to make/miss a straight 10 foot putt? 

Not much, < 0.8 degrees.  Like I said in those posts, I feel most of my challenge is the 7" between my ears; that is knowing I'm putting for birdie and subconciously guarding to make par.  Whether it's ones inability to control face angle, read the green/putt path, and/or control speed, the use of AI in design (which is really more about the speed at which iterations can be performed - a whole other discussion), is not a game changer IMO. 

Heck, my ZX5's have AI in the face design, but I can still hit them left and right of target. Gains in club technology has been quite significant in the past few decades but I feel has largely reached a threshold given existing USGA/R&A constraints.  While very modest gains will continue to be had, I think they'll look more and more to marketing hype to move product.  Some golfers change gear as frequently as underwear - to each their own.  AI aided design or not, I'm still solidly in the "it's the archer not the arrow" group.

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Like I said in those posts, I feel most of my challenge in the 7" between my ears; that is knowing I'm putting for birdie and subconciously guarding to make par. 

Maybe we need to get an AI insert for your head