Thoughts while addressing or over a putt.

[Mike10487]

I see many people that assert the claims "well the pros only make 46% of 8-10' putts. While this might be true, why give yourself an excuse and set up for failure before you have even stroked the putt? I've never understood this thought process. I understand the make % but still want to make every one of them. I almost feel as though people talk themselves out of making putts. 

[NM01]

I don’t think people say that as an excuse but rather because of setting expectations. Yes the putts are trying to be made but if it’s missed it’s not something to get upset, mad or other emotional reaction to the miss.

No different than being 170 out and when the ball settles on the green it’s 30’+ away. I’m not upset at that result, because k can’t expect to stick it everytime. Tour average at 170 is roughly 30’

It’s all about course management, controlling emotions on the course and focus only on the shot at hand

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Mike10487 said:

I see many people that assert the claims "well the pros only make 46% of 8-10' putts. While this might be true, why give yourself an excuse and set up for failure before you have even stroked the putt? I've never understood this thought process. I understand the make % but still want to make every one of them. I almost feel as though people talk themselves out of making putts. 

As stated above it isn’t something that you should be thinking about over a putt,  it is about understanding expectations and maintaining mental composure when you miss an 8 foot putt.     People need to just assess that I started the ball online with the speed I wanted because Once you make your stroke and the ball leaves the face of the putter, you control nothing.

[Josh Parker]

I look at it pretty much like @cnosil mentioned.  Did I hit my target line and speed and if not, what caused the miss.  I don't expect to make every putt, but it is the thought process of hitting my spot that matters.  

[chisag]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

As stated above it isn’t something that you should be thinking about over a putt,  it is about understanding expectations and maintaining mental composure when you miss an 8 foot putt.     People need to just assess that I started the ball online with the speed I wanted because Once you make your stroke and the ball leaves the face of the putter, you control nothing.

 

... I very honestly expect to make every putt I face. Rolled in a 35 footer yesterday for a birdie after hitting out of a deep divot on a par5 squirting right from only 90yds. But yes, I expected it to go in because that was my thought process. It is always my thought process. But as you said, once the ball leaves the putter it is out of my control and I no longer have any expectations so missing the putt has the same mental effect as making it. Most all of golf is just putting yourself in a position to succeed. Nestled down in thick rough, success may mean wedging it back on the fairway and then you re-evaluate what success will be with that shot. Rinse and repeat for every shot. 

... Never more true than putting. I may look at a right to left breaking downhill putt on fast greens and think I need to very gently stroke this putt with a little extra break so it will fall in on the high side but never I have to be careful that this putt doesn't get away from me because it's very fast and I could easily roll it 10 feet past if I am not careful. Even though it is the same putt and evaluating it reaches the same conclusion for what is needed, one is a positive thought based on success and the other a negative thought based on failure. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by chisag

[Wakit300]

I'm trying to make every putt so I'm not thinking about that either. When I'm over a putt I'm feeling more than thinking - feeling grip, posture, balance, distance, speed  - then see the path to the hole and have the spot I want to roll it over in my head then putt it.

[GolfSpy_APH]

My thought process is simple. Setup and once comfortable move on. When setup the only thought is speed. The rest should take care of itself. If it goes in great! If it doesn't, well that's golf.

[gingerbeast87]

4 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

My thought process is simple. Setup and once comfortable move on. When setup the only thought is speed. The rest should take care of itself. If it goes in great! If it doesn't, well that's golf.

I just have Adam Sandler screaming "get in your home" over and over

[chisag]

17 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

My thought process is simple. Setup and once comfortable move on. When setup the only thought is speed. The rest should take care of itself. If it goes in great! If it doesn't, well that's golf.

[DaveP043]

5 hours ago, Mike10487 said:

I almost feel as though people talk themselves out of making putts. 

I know people who will get frustrated when they miss a "makeable" putt, and that frustration hurts their effort to make the next one.  Understanding the probabilities can help keep a player from becoming frustrated.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... Never more true than putting. I may look at a right to left breaking downhill putt on fast greens and think I need to very gently stroke this putt with a little extra break so it will fall in on the high side but never I have to be careful that this putt doesn't get away from me because it's very fast and I could easily roll it 10 feet past if I am not careful. Even though it is the same putt and evaluating it reaches the same conclusion for what is needed, one is a positive thought based on success and the other a negative thought based on failure. 

This is the mental side of golf.  You are committing to how you want to execute the specific shot. Always thing success; never think failure. 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I know people who will get frustrated when they miss a "makeable" putt, and that frustration hurts their effort to make the next one.  Understanding the probabilities can help keep a player from becoming frustrated.

 

... Everyone is different Dave and for many being frustrated is just part of the competitive process. Nothing wrong with momentary frustration because that shows you care. That said, once you indulge your frustration, putting it behind you is paramount so it doesn't affect the next putt. I hear you though and some let it not only effect their next putt but their entire round. 

[Mike10487]

27 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I know people who will get frustrated when they miss a "makeable" putt, and that frustration hurts their effort to make the next one.  Understanding the probabilities can help keep a player from becoming frustrated.

But this leads to the dreaded "Just get it close" syndrome.

[Mike10487]

Personally, I read it and hit it.  I only think of making every single putt. I am disappointed not making EVERY 8' putt. But I eagerly await the same challenge on the very next hole.  Now viscous lip outs are something entirely different! LOL

[DaveP043]

5 minutes ago, Mike10487 said:

But this leads to the dreaded "Just get it close" syndrome.

I don't agree, at least not in all cases.  As @chisag says, we're all different.  For some, understanding of the probabilities will diminish frustration and allow them to play better.  For others it might lead to lack of aggression, what you call the "get it close" syndrome.  I know one particular player who will, after missing a couple of makeable putts, will say "I guess I just won't make anything today" and kind of give up.  If he could accept that missing those putts is a part of golf, he might be able to keep his concentration and effort up.

[NM01]

12 minutes ago, Mike10487 said:

But this leads to the dreaded "Just get it close" syndrome.

Don’t agree with that at all. My buddy was one of the guys that got frustrated over not making every putt inside 10’. He kept seeing all those putts drop on tv. It wasn’t until he realized that they mostly show the ones that go in. Once he realized that he was able to adjust his expectations but at no time did he think to himself not going to make them all so be careful and don’t leave it short or run it by.

I don’t know anybody that has the hair get it close mentality.

that mentality in my experience is from bad putters who pretty much hope and pray on each putt

[DaveP043]

37 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t know anybody that has the hair get it close mentality.

Oh, I have that mentality when the length of the putt becomes greater.  That's completely in line with Broadie's work, which suggests that for shorter putts, you should try to hit it some distance past the hole, but for longer putts you should be trying to have your "pattern" centered at exactly hole distance.

[chisag]

16 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Oh, I have that mentality when the length of the putt becomes greater.  That's completely in line with Broadie's work, which suggests that for shorter putts, you should try to hit it some distance past the hole, but for longer putts you should be trying to have your "pattern" centered at exactly hole distance.

 

... I have posted this before but it bears repeating. Back in the early 90's I had a fitting with Kevin Weeks who works with a lot of PGA/LPGA players. He started by saying it's OK to die the ball in the hole for long putts but the closer you get to the hole the more aggressive you need to be and 18" to 24" past the hole is ideal. So we got to work and after about 30 minutes he said he had seen enough. He said I have excellent distance control with solid center contact. But attempting to roll the ball 18" past the hole just didn't compute for me as not only was my distance control hampered, but my face angle at impact was no longer consistent because I was going against my natural instincts. 

... He said he has good news and bad news. By dying the ball in the hole on short putts I was going to miss some because anomalies in the green and the volcano effect would make my ball lose its line and I would miss some short putts. The good news is putts catching the edge would fall where a more aggressive speed will lip out. In the end he said it was a wash and he always preferred players going with their natural tendencies if they are confident and successful. Whether or not he was just building my confidence he said my putter path, face angle and contact location was better than many tour pros he worked with so I shouldn't change anything. 

[GaryF]

I’ve never been a very good putter and this past year I came to the realization that I have been playing with a putter that visually looked good to me, but was a mismatch with my stroke.   A big frustration I had was that for long putts, ie, approx 25’ and longer, I very often felt I had the right speed and line but would ‘mishit’.   It was a Ping blade and the head was very light with a fairly small sweet spot and I’d tend to get armsy & handsy.  I also seemed to miss many 3-6 footers. 

This past spring I was committed to changing my style and use more shoulder rotation with dead arms and hands.  After trying a number of putters, I settled on an Odyssey DoubleWide with an ~15* toe hang and since have reduced my putting avg by 2 strokes.

My approach has is to view the ball from behind the ball then on the opposite side of the hole to assess the line.  Then stand behind the ball and take a few practice swings to get the feel for the swing speed.  Once I step up to the ball, my mind is blank, and the stroke is what I settled on with my last couple practice swings.  Sometimes the go in but a much higher percentage of 3-6 footers are going in. 
 

 

 

.

[RockerFCC]

This is probably my most inconsistent aspect of my game, but I find that it's more confidence than anything. So the mental aspect of telling myself I am doing the process correctly is huge. Self doubt is the biggest thing I have to watch out for. Easy to say but in the process you sometimes do it anyway, then I kick myself after I realize, why did you think that way, just hit the damn thing  LOL

[Shapotomous]

Much like @GolfSpy_APH i make the read and then get the alignment where i want then the only thought is speed related.  When i catch myself thinking about the line i get the speed wrong with most of the time being short.

[chisag]

4 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Much like @GolfSpy_APH i make the read and then get the alignment where i want then the only thought is speed related.  When i catch myself thinking about the line i get the speed wrong with most of the time being short.

 

... Some know the brain is incapable of two thoughts at the same time. It will rapidly bounce back and forth between two thoughts which of course divides your attention. Other than a faulty stroke the one biggest improvement I was able to help my students with was completely ignoring the line and only concentrate on the speed. Line up your putt in whatever way works for you and get your line, then forget it and just think about the speed. Like walking down a rocky path you have sent the information to your brain of where the rocks are and where to step so you don't look down at each foot placement because your brain has that info and you are looking ahead for more rocks, dips, or other anomalies on the path. So once you decide on your line, the brain doesn't need to be reminded of it while you stroke your putt. 

... An enlightening experiment for some is go to a practice green, drop several balls and absolutely pay no attention to the line at all and putt to different hole locations. Just take a look at the hole and then immediatly putt thinking about the speed to get to that hole. Many are shocked to find how accurate their line is because just looking at the hole and knowing you are gonna roll a ball to that spot, your brain has taken in the necessary information to successfully do just that. For those that think too much or are overly analytical it can be a real eye opener. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by chisag

[cnosil]

21 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Some know the brain is incapable of two thoughts at the same time. It will rapidly bounce back and forth between two thoughts which of course divides your attention. Other than a faulty stroke the one biggest improvement I was able to help my students with was completely ignoring the line and only concentrate on the speed. Line up your putt in whatever way works for you and get your line, then forget it and just think about the speed. Like walking down a rocky path you have sent the information to your brain of where the rocks are and where to step so you don't look down at each foot placement because your brain has that info and you are looking ahead for more rocks, dips, or other anomalies on the path. So once you decide on your line, the brain doesn't need to be reminded of it while you stroke your putt. 

... An enlightening experiment for some is go to a practice green, drop several balls and absolutely pay no attention to the line at all and putt to different hole locations. Just take a look at the hole and then immediatly putt thinking about the speed to get to that hole. Many are shocked to find how accurate their line is because just looking at the hole and knowing you are gonna roll a ball to that spot, your brain has taken in the necessary information to successfully do just that. For those that think too much or are overly analytical it can be a real eye opener. 

Completely agree with you that speed is generally more important than line.   But;  you knew there would be a but,  that works great for lag putting since even if your line is off, you shouldn't finish that far away form the hole with good speed control.  How about the player that is missing left and right on 3 footers, doesn't line become important then?

[chisag]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Completely agree with you that speed is generally more important than line.   But;  you knew there would be a but,  that works great for lag putting since even if your line is off, you shouldn't finish that far away form the hole with good speed control.  How about the player that is missing left and right on 3 footers, doesn't line become important then?

 

... This should be an eye opener for you: I think it is even more important to ignore the line on short putts. Those are the ones you know you can make so all too often players try and steer the ball in the hole and often with poor speed. Again to be crystal clear I am not saying the line is not just as important as speed because both are obviously critical to making a putt. The correct speed with the wrong line is a missed putt. What I am saying is once you have established your line, it is securely stored in your brain and you no longer need to consciously think about it while you are stroking your putt. Every putt is a straight putt, even those that start breaking inches off the putter and break 10 feet. So once you know what your line is, you simply concentrate on the speed needed to make the putt and make your stroke straight through the ball. 





 

[Mike10487]

22 hours ago, cnosil said:

Completely agree with you that speed is generally more important than line.   But;  you knew there would be a but,  that works great for lag putting since even if your line is off, you shouldn't finish that far away form the hole with good speed control.  How about the player that is missing left and right on 3 footers, doesn't line become important then?

"How about the player that is missing left and right on 3 footers, doesn't line become important then?"  There comes a point when you have to realize either you are using the wrong putter, or your stroke is severely flawed  ie. the yips.  Speed should remove most of the break on 3' putts. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Mike10487

[cnosil]

20 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... This should be an eye opener for you: I think it is even more important to ignore the line on short putts. Those are the ones you know you can make so all too often players try and steer the ball in the hole and often with poor speed. Again to be crystal clear I am not saying the line is not just as important as speed because both are obviously critical to making a putt. The correct speed with the wrong line is a missed putt. What I am saying is once you have established your line, it is securely stored in your brain and you no longer need to consciously think about it while you are stroking your putt. Every putt is a straight putt, even those that start breaking inches off the putter and break 10 feet. So once you know what your line is, you simply concentrate on the speed needed to make the putt and make your stroke straight through the ball. 


 

I’d argue that teaching every putt is a straight putt is teaching a method; some players see curves/path of the putt.  It’s kind of like our past discussions on feel versus mechanical.  I occasionally find that my subconscious mind putts to that spot and will pull/push the putt to end the ball  there instead if the hole.  If every putt is a straight putt is the right thought process then aimpoint is the method eveyone should use to putt because it identifies the straight line? 

What meant thing you are addressing are the skills necessary to pick the straight line and actually start the ball on that intended line.  You have to have skills to identify the line and the speed that matches that line.  You have to be able to consistently setup with a putter. And you have to be able to deliver the putter in a manner that starts the ball on that line with the desired speed.  Just like the full swing people don’t intuitively know how to move the putter through the stroke.  
 

30 minutes ago, Mike10487 said:

"How about the player that is missing left and right on 3 footers, doesn't line become important then?"  There comes a point when you have to realize either you are using the wrong putter, or your stroke is severely flawed  ie. the yips.  Speed should remove most of the break on 3' putts. 

you just confirmed what I was saying.  Can’t just look at speed when players are missing short putts.  The closer you get to the hole, the more relevant starting the ball on intended line becomes.  

[chisag]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

I’d argue that teaching every putt is a straight putt is teaching a method; some players see curves/path of the putt.  It’s kind of like our past discussions on feel versus mechanical.  I occasionally find that my subconscious mind putts to that spot and will pull/push the putt to end the ball  there instead if the hole.  If every putt is a straight putt is the right thought process then aimpoint is the method eveyone should use to putt because it identifies the straight line? 

What meant thing you are addressing are the skills necessary to pick the straight line and actually start the ball on that intended line.  You have to have skills to identify the line and the speed that matches that line.  You have to be able to consistently setup with a putter. And you have to be able to deliver the putter in a manner that starts the ball on that line with the desired speed.  Just like the full swing people don’t intuitively know how to move the putter through the stroke.  

 

... Ok for you I will make an exception as you seem to be stuck on this concept.   You hit every putt with the same straight stroke. Better? If I putt breaks 10 feet right to left, you don't stroke the ball with an out to in stroke nor with a 10 foot break left to right do you stroke the putt with an in to out stroke. So just for you I will amend the thought to: every putting stroke is a straight putting stroke. You also seem to be stuck on the concept that players see curves/path and ... well ... of course they do! I know I do. I am kinda like Bagger Vance when I look at my putt and I see the path from my ball to the hole which usually has at least some break. I am always looking for the break because every green has to drain water and there are no flat spots on greens. Straight lines sometimes yes, but they are every so slightly uphill or down hill or the water wouldn't drain off the green. When I miss a makable putt it is usually because I play a slight break that isn't there. But when I stroke my putt I stroke straight through my ball because every putting stroke should be a straight putting stroke. 

... Through trial and error with students I found many will try and curve the ball with their putter on a 10 foot break right to left putt and close there putter face and with a 10 foot left to right try and curve the ball on their line by opening the face. Even worse they will move their bodies and bend the way the putt breaks. It is much more technical to say every stroke is a straight stroke to which some students would say DUH! and then proceed to try and curve their ball with their putter face or body. To say every putt is a straight putt (which it is even if for just a few inches) encourages you to not try and make the putt break, just stroke straight through the ball and let the break take the ball to the hole. Pounding the point home YOU don't make the putt break, the slope and the ground make the putt break, so YOU need to make a straight putt (stroke). I can assure you of this, telling students and friends that struggle with breaking putts that every putt is a straight putt was a real game changer, because they were trying to make the putt break on the line they close which resulted in pulls and pushes. Once they understood every putt was a straight putt and they just needed to make a straight stroke though their ball, their putting improved dramatically. You being the exception of course. 

... I do understand for some, putting is neither natural or easy. Having a repeatable stroke with control of both the putter face and the speed you stroke the ball can be tough of those without good spacial awareness. I simply can't imagine changing the way I stand or hold the putter or make a stroke because to me just standing and bending from the waist naturally and letting my arms hang soft and loose, using them like a pendulum seemed to just make sense from the beginning and I have never changed anything abut the way I putt in over 35 years. (I wish I could say the same for my full swing ) I do see players with an uncomfortable stance or grip, contorting their bodies/arms/hands an making some kind of mechanical movement with little success and I feel for those players. 



 

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Ok for you I will make an exception as you seem to be stuck on this concept.   You hit every putt with the same straight stroke. Better? If I putt breaks 10 feet right to left, you don't stroke the ball with an out to in stroke nor with a 10 foot break left to right do you stroke the putt with an in to out stroke. So just for you I will amend the thought to: every putting stroke is a straight putting stroke. You also seem to be stuck on the concept that players see curves/path and ... well ... of course they do! I know I do. I am kinda like Bagger Vance when I look at my putt and I see the path from my ball to the hole which usually has at least some break. I am always looking for the break because every green has to drain water and there are no flat spots on greens. Straight lines sometimes yes, but they are every so slightly uphill or down hill or the water wouldn't drain off the green. When I miss a makable putt it is usually because I play a slight break that isn't there. But when I stroke my putt I stroke straight through my ball because every putting stroke should be a straight putting stroke. 

... Through trial and error with students I found many will try and curve the ball with their putter on a 10 foot break right to left putt and close there putter face and with a 10 foot left to right try and curve the ball on their line by opening the face. Even worse they will move their bodies and bend the way the putt breaks. It is much more technical to say every stroke is a straight stroke to which some students would say DUH! and then proceed to try and curve their ball with their putter face or body. To say every putt is a straight putt (which it is even if for just a few inches) encourages you to not try and make the putt break, just stroke straight through the ball and let the break take the ball to the hole. Pounding the point home YOU don't make the putt break, the slope and the ground make the putt break, so YOU need to make a straight putt (stroke). I can assure you of this, telling students and friends that struggle with breaking putts that every putt is a straight putt was a real game changer, because they were trying to make the putt break on the line they close which resulted in pulls and pushes. Once they understood every putt was a straight putt and they just needed to make a straight stroke though their ball, their putting improved dramatically. You being the exception of course. 

... I do understand for some, putting is neither natural or easy. Having a repeatable stroke with control of both the putter face and the speed you stroke the ball can be tough of those without good spacial awareness. I simply can't imagine changing the way I stand or hold the putter or make a stroke because to me just standing and bending from the waist naturally and letting my arms hang soft and loose, using them like a pendulum seemed to just make sense from the beginning and I have never changed anything abut the way I putt in over 35 years. (I wish I could say the same for my full swing ) I do see players with an uncomfortable stance or grip, contorting their bodies/arms/hands an making some kind of mechanical movement with little success and I feel for those players. 



 

Tiger tries to hook his putts

https://golf.com/news/tiger-woods-putting-one-round-subtle-fix/

“Well, I just said, hey, I’ve always been a person who likes to hook my putts, so I just tried to feel like I went back to releasing the putter blade more, more right hand, more release,” Woods said. “I just hate that blocky feeling, which I had yesterday, which I can’t stand. So I go back to hooking my putts and it felt like my normal stroke, which was good.”

Edited October 23, 2023 by cnosil

[chisag]

1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Tiger tries to hook his putts

 

... Just think how much better at putting Tiger would have been if I worked with him. 

[Mike10487]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Ok for you I will make an exception as you seem to be stuck on this concept.   You hit every putt with the same straight stroke. Better? If I putt breaks 10 feet right to left, you don't stroke the ball with an out to in stroke nor with a 10 foot break left to right do you stroke the putt with an in to out stroke. So just for you I will amend the thought to: every putting stroke is a straight putting stroke. You also seem to be stuck on the concept that players see curves/path and ... well ... of course they do! I know I do. I am kinda like Bagger Vance when I look at my putt and I see the path from my ball to the hole which usually has at least some break. I am always looking for the break because every green has to drain water and there are no flat spots on greens. Straight lines sometimes yes, but they are every so slightly uphill or down hill or the water wouldn't drain off the green. When I miss a makable putt it is usually because I play a slight break that isn't there. But when I stroke my putt I stroke straight through my ball because every putting stroke should be a straight putting stroke. 

... Through trial and error with students I found many will try and curve the ball with their putter on a 10 foot break right to left putt and close there putter face and with a 10 foot left to right try and curve the ball on their line by opening the face. Even worse they will move their bodies and bend the way the putt breaks. It is much more technical to say every stroke is a straight stroke to which some students would say DUH! and then proceed to try and curve their ball with their putter face or body. To say every putt is a straight putt (which it is even if for just a few inches) encourages you to not try and make the putt break, just stroke straight through the ball and let the break take the ball to the hole. Pounding the point home YOU don't make the putt break, the slope and the ground make the putt break, so YOU need to make a straight putt (stroke). I can assure you of this, telling students and friends that struggle with breaking putts that every putt is a straight putt was a real game changer, because they were trying to make the putt break on the line they close which resulted in pulls and pushes. Once they understood every putt was a straight putt and they just needed to make a straight stroke though their ball, their putting improved dramatically. You being the exception of course. 

... I do understand for some, putting is neither natural or easy. Having a repeatable stroke with control of both the putter face and the speed you stroke the ball can be tough of those without good spacial awareness. I simply can't imagine changing the way I stand or hold the putter or make a stroke because to me just standing and bending from the waist naturally and letting my arms hang soft and loose, using them like a pendulum seemed to just make sense from the beginning and I have never changed anything abut the way I putt in over 35 years. (I wish I could say the same for my full swing ) I do see players with an uncomfortable stance or grip, contorting their bodies/arms/hands an making some kind of mechanical movement with little success and I feel for those players. 



 

This is ABSOLUTELY spot on!  Once you determine your line and use the ball alignment aid to set the aim point at your chosen line. It's always a straight putt. ALWAYS. One doesn't change his putting stroke to cut or draw a putt.  This why you see guys changing to the left-hand low claw grip on a long putter and moving your change to from your right to your left pocket while tightening the shoestring on your left shoe. I see some of these grips and stances and weird putter grips and wonder to myself " just how much agony has his putting stroke done to this guy"?