Any shaft gurus out there?

[Mike10487]

I'm trying out the Cobra Aerojet LS (12gr. heel 3 gr. toe) 9 degree set to 7.5. At 54, I am a pretty smooth swinger, certainly not violent and about 100 mph.  I love the way it feels but, with the stock Kaili shaft I can hit 5 balls, 3 perfect (butter cut) and 2 will go 50 yds right. I have had two other + handicaps hit it and do the same exact thing. I went to a local fitter and he pushed me into a Hzdrus Smoke RDX 6.0/60 gr and sent me on my way.  It was better for sure, but I still have a fade tendency. Being a straight to draw hitter my entire life, I have trouble envisioning a cut. Now to the question..... I like the feel of the Hzdrus shaft, is there a different shaft profile that would straighten this cut out?  I am having trouble understanding the difference between Black, Blue, Yellow, Red, Orange, Green, T800 and T1100. I understand the numbers, weight, torque, flex and all. I just want to hit it straight. Any help would be appreciated. Is the LS truly a fade biased driver head? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[NM01]

Unfortunately nobody on beee can what shaft if any would change your ball flight. You could get 10 different recommendations from people based on their experience but there’s no way to say that same experience will transfer to your swing. How the shaft feels to a golfer plays how that person will swing the club and this how it gets delivered.

Testing different shafts or going to a reputable fitter are the only way to figure out what works for your swing. Its possible its also the club head, where you are contacting the ball on the face and/or swing.

 

[Mike10487]

What a great read! Thank you for sharing. I've always called that smiley face the Callaway sweet spot.  I use that spot a lot!

Edited November 24, 2023 by Mike10487

[ParFore74x]

On 11/24/2023 at 7:28 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Unfortunately nobody on beee can what shaft if any would change your ball flight. You could get 10 different recommendations from people based on their experience but there’s no way to say that same experience will transfer to your swing. How the shaft feels to a golfer plays how that person will swing the club and this how it gets delivered.

Testing different shafts or going to a reputable fitter are the only way to figure out what works for your swing. It’s possible it’s also the club head, where you are contacting the ball on the face and/or swing.

That’s a good read. Definitely some things that I’m going to try from that to see if I can improve consistency. 

[KC Golf]

RickyBobby_PR Thanks you!  This is a very interesting article.  Thank you for the link.  Will have to try it with the Sim since its too cold up here.

[Hoyoymac]

The Cobra Aerojet LS 9 degree driver has a very flat lie angle and is quite fade biased by design. Since you have lowered the loft via the hosel adapter you have also opened the face angle.  The hosel adapter has a minus 1 draw setting that will change the lie angle to be more upright and is something to try as well if you haven’t already.

[Mike10487]

23 hours ago, Hoyoymac said:

The Cobra Aerojet LS 9 degree driver has a very flat lie angle and is quite fade biased by design. Since you have lowered the loft via the hosel adapter you have also opened the face angle.  The hosel adapter has a minus 1 draw setting that will change the lie angle to be more upright and is something to try as well if you haven’t already.

Ended up with the Hzrdus Blue 62 gram 6.0. What a difference. I was in the -1-draw setting with the Kaili shaft as well. (Apparently) The Kaili has a weaker tip and stiffer midsection which really seemed to fight me closing the face. Hzrdus Blue +15 yds and back to nearly dead straight. I can work it either way. Just further solidifies the need for being fit.  Thanks for the responses and help!

[GolfSpy_APH]

8 minutes ago, Mike10487 said:

Ended up with the Hzrdus Blue 62 gram 6.0. What a difference. I was in the -1-draw setting with the Kaili shaft as well. (Apparently) The Kaili has a weaker tip and stiffer midsection which really seemed to fight me closing the face. Hzrdus Blue +15 yds and back to nearly dead straight. I can work it either way. Just further solidifies the need for being fit.  Thanks for the responses and help!

Glad to hear you found the shaft that is going to work with you! Happy the community could also be on some assistance. 

[MarvChamp]

Not much about shafts from me, but I have a 2022 Cobra driver and older Fly-Z fairway. According to Cobra both have "SmartPad technology, a specially designed part of the sole. This ensure that the club will sit relatively square, regardless of the loft." In other words, changing loft won't close or open the face. I have to assume Cobra engineers wouldn't make untrue statements.

As far as shafts go, I have a great (FOR ME) Aldila Ascent 50HY (R-2) flex in my Mizuno hybrids; and a great (FOR ME) Matrix VLCT-Sp Lite Flex for +75mph speed (old guy) in the Cobra Fly-Z 5/7 adj. FW. I really like both even though the latter is heavier b/c both are the low kick high launch that I like. And the Cobra LTDx Max driver has the very light UST Mamatya Helium 4F2.

AND I like a midsize grip which (I THINK) helps me avoid the left side miss.

But, see, there are S0-0-0- many variables. I don't see how even a fitter can cover them all, though there are wonderfully talented fitters in the community. For me, it requires trying numerous clubs and combinations and a huge amount of patience.

Sorry to be long-winded and probably wrong-headed!

Best, -Marv

 

[Mike10487]

12 hours ago, MarvChamp said:

Not much about shafts from me, but I have a 2022 Cobra driver and older Fly-Z fairway. According to Cobra both have "SmartPad technology, a specially designed part of the sole. This ensure that the club will sit relatively square, regardless of the loft." In other words, changing loft won't close or open the face. I have to assume Cobra engineers wouldn't make untrue statements.

As far as shafts go, I have a great (FOR ME) Aldila Ascent 50HY (R-2) flex in my Mizuno hybrids; and a great (FOR ME) Matrix VLCT-Sp Lite Flex for +75mph speed (old guy) in the Cobra Fly-Z 5/7 adj. FW. I really like both even though the latter is heavier b/c both are the low kick high launch that I like. And the Cobra LTDx Max driver has the very light UST Mamatya Helium 4F2.

AND I like a midsize grip which (I THINK) helps me avoid the left side miss.

But, see, there are S0-0-0- many variables. I don't see how even a fitter can cover them all, though there are wonderfully talented fitters in the community. For me, it requires trying numerous clubs and combinations and a huge amount of patience.

Sorry to be long-winded and probably wrong-headed!

Best, -Marv

 

Thanks for the response, Marv. This process went on for nearly 2 months. The first month, I tried every shaft I had in the garage. Ended up purchasing 2 new adapters after overheating the first one on the 3 shaft install. I then went to our local golf shop and checked out a couple demo shafts, neither felt right. The Velacore was the closest I had tried to this point, but still losing the ball right for what felt like no reason. I joined a friend at the range with his new Srixon driver with the Hzdrus Blue installed. Two swings into it, I felt as though I had found something. That moment I called down to the golf shop they had no Hzdrus Blue. My buddy said, pop the tip off this one and meet me here tomorrow. Like a kid in the candy store I rushed home. I had the shaft marked and the adapter installed in 15 minutes.  Hit the range the following day and eureka! Put it on trackman and the numbers were perfect! The spin with the Kaili was 2498, H Blue 2110. The dispersion difference was incredible as well. I really wish we had a Club champion or the likes around my area. This would have been a much easier process. In the end I feel as though every second was worth it. 

[MarvChamp]

"This process went on for nearly 2 months."

Yeah, I know the feeling and the process. I came to a point in life where age and injuries old and new caught up with me. I have had so many  clubs re-shafted in the effort to restore some of what I have lost. I have not, of course, but thank goodness for all the new technologies that help. And the eureka moment whent I have found "it" is wonderful. Best, -Marv

1 hour ago, Mike10487 said:

Thanks for the response, Marv. This process went on for nearly 2 months. The first month, I tried every shaft I had in the garage. Ended up purchasing 2 new adapters after overheating the first one on the 3 shaft install. I then went to our local golf shop and checked out a couple demo shafts, neither felt right. The Velacore was the closest I had tried to this point, but still losing the ball right for what felt like no reason. I joined a friend at the range with his new Srixon driver with the Hzdrus Blue installed. Two swings into it, I felt as though I had found something. That moment I called down to the golf shop they had no Hzdrus Blue. My buddy said, pop the tip off this one and meet me here tomorrow. Like a kid in the candy store I rushed home. I had the shaft marked and the adapter installed in 15 minutes.  Hit the range the following day and eureka! Put it on trackman and the numbers were perfect! The spin with the Kaili was 2498, H Blue 2110. The dispersion difference was incredible as well. I really wish we had a Club champion or the likes around my area. This would have been a much easier process. In the end I feel as though every second was worth it. 

 

[Clubs by Buzz]

If your shaft is installed in the wrong position you end up fighting the shaft. Spining or "truing" a shaft is the most important step.   If the spine is not properly aligned your dispersion will not be tight.   Stock shafts seem to be hit or miss in alignment.   

Please remember, some kid at PGA store or Dick's may not understand shaft setup.  

Buzz at Clubs by Buzz

 

 

 

[cnosil]

18 minutes ago, Clubs by Buzz said:

If your shaft is installed in the wrong position you end up fighting the shaft. Spining or "truing" a shaft is the most important step.   If the spine is not properly aligned your dispersion will not be tight.   Stock shafts seem to be hit or miss in alignment.   

IMO, a subjective opinion as I have seen "evidence" that it is critical and that it is a waste of time.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

IMO, a subjective opinion as I have seen "evidence" that it is critical and that it is a waste of time.  

Agreed. I'm sure for some shafts that are lesser on value there could be something to it as tolerances may not be as tight. But higher end shafts with tighter tolerances will more than likely all perform the same regardless of position.

[CB Lobo 4 Life]

So, for what it is worth in my opinion I have noticed that for driver if I tend to hit severely left. Therefore a more "Boardy" shaft with heavier weight is what I need. In your case, the Smoke RDX (assuming it is black) could be that more board profile which means that most of the stiffness is in the mid and tip. With this being the case this can cause more of a cut ball shape for your "smooth" swing. The Smoke RDX (if it is black) is generally for people with very aggressive transitions similar to mine. What I would think you may need is those shafts that tend to be a little more stiff up top and less stiff in the mid and tip which will help increase height a little but also allow your ball flight to encourage more of a left bias. Again, this is all my opinion based on the dozens of shafts I have tested over the last year. 

[Jim Shaw]

"any shaft gurus out there" what a great question..

In my golf world the shaft is the only reason I go to a fitting, period. 

The challenge is I have still to this day never walked out of a fitting, on to the 1st. tee with the perfectly fit shaft for me, it always takes 2-3 weeks for me to groove my swing to "match" the shaft, always and I am not an average golfer. 

The last fitting I had the fitter was dragging employees out of their office to see the consistency of my strikes and absolute same swing speed with my clubs so in my mind it should be easy peasy to fit me with the proper shaft immediately. 

Nope, not a chance..

The reason for the rant about shafts is all the "hocus pocus tidily ocus" that seems to be generated about shafts had not made it's way down to my swing and in my mind it should. 

In summary I had Takomo put KBS stiff lights into the 301MB's, worked with them for 3 weeks and am striping them now, so the fitting for the majority of golfers may work but why not for me when it should be easy. 

I hope the information on this thread helps for all of you looking for the proper shaft for your swings...

[tricket3d]

Come here to tell you I got the smoke blue in the previous model LTDx LS and it draws awesome. Looks like you had the same experience. 

[ZackS]

3 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

"any shaft gurus out there" what a great question..

In my golf world the shaft is the only reason I go to a fitting, period. 

The challenge is I have still to this day never walked out of a fitting, on to the 1st. tee with the perfectly fit shaft for me, it always takes 2-3 weeks for me to groove my swing to "match" the shaft, always and I am not an average golfer. 

The last fitting I had the fitter was dragging employees out of their office to see the consistency of my strikes and absolute same swing speed with my clubs so in my mind it should be easy peasy to fit me with the proper shaft immediately. 

Nope, not a chance..

The reason for the rant about shafts is all the "hocus pocus tidily ocus" that seems to be generated about shafts had not made it's way down to my swing and in my mind it should. 

In summary I had Takomo put KBS stiff lights into the 301MB's, worked with them for 3 weeks and am striping them now, so the fitting for the majority of golfers may work but why not for me when it should be easy. 

I hope the information on this thread helps for all of you looking for the proper shaft for your swings...

With shafts being about feel and timing, yes how you react to these will have effect on launch/spin. Someone with as much talent as you the fitter has to be very careful on the amount of shots you get with each as you will adjust better than most and you want to find the shaft that you don’t have to adjust too as that should allow you to be more consistent. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by ZackS

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

The last fitting I had the fitter was dragging employees out of their office to see the consistency of my strikes and absolute same swing speed with my clubs so in my mind it should be easy peasy to fit me with the proper shaft immediately. 

 

The challenge is I have still to this day never walked out of a fitting, on to the 1st. tee with the perfectly fit shaft for me, it always takes 2-3 weeks for me to groove my swing to "match" the shaft, always and I am not an average golfer. 

My question to you would be you hit the center of the club and your swing speed doesn't vary why can't you get a shaft that you don't have to adjust to for 2-3 weeks?  What is wrong when you get to the course?  Is it the stock shot that is the problem (path and face angle control is off), club gapping, feel of the club in the swing (why didn't you notice this in the fitting?), or something else?    You aren't supposed to make the swing match the shaft,  the shaft is supposed to match the swing.   I'd also wonder if it is the new head since for you it probably has the biggest influence on your adjustments due to how it moves in the swing and is ultimately delivered at impact.  

[MarvChamp]

5 hours ago, Clubs by Buzz said:

If your shaft is installed in the wrong position you end up fighting the shaft. Spining or "truing" a shaft is the most important step.   If the spine is not properly aligned your dispersion will not be tight.   Stock shafts seem to be hit or miss in alignment.   

Please remember, some kid at PGA store or Dick's may not understand shaft setup.  

Buzz at Clubs by Buzz

Agree wholeheartedly about spine alignment; AND that is something only an experienced club builder will do well.  Had a set of irons re-shafted years ago and aligned...I swear even I could feel the difference from the old shafts.

Best, -Marv

 

 

 

[Jim Shaw]

59 minutes ago, cnosil said:

My question to you would be you hit the center of the club and your swing speed doesn't vary why can't you get a shaft that you don't have to adjust to for 2-3 weeks?  What is wrong when you get to the course?  Is it the stock shot that is the problem (path and face angle control is off), club gapping, feel of the club in the swing (why didn't you notice this in the fitting?), or something else?    You aren't supposed to make the swing match the shaft,  the shaft is supposed to match the swing.   I'd also wonder if it is the new head since for you it probably has the biggest influence on your adjustments due to how it moves in the swing and is ultimately delivered at impact.  

You have basically made my point “why can’t the fitter say, this is the shaft for you, no question “ 

if the fitter cant  do that, what is the point?? I am doing his or her work for them. 
 

anyway I am fine now but in my mind it should be an easy fitting for the professional 

[Jim Shaw]

1 hour ago, ZackS said:

With shafts being about feel and timing, yes how you react to these will have effect on launch/spin. Someone with as much talent as you the fitter has to be very careful on the amount of shots you get with each as you will adjust better than most and you want to find the shaft that you don’t have to adjust too as that should allow you to be more consistent. 

Ahh, so what you are saying is it is actually more difficult to fit better players? 

[cnosil]

21 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

You have basically made my point “why can’t the fitter say, this is the shaft for you, no question “ 

if the fitter cant  do that, what is the point?? I am doing his or her work for them. 
 

anyway I am fine now but in my mind it should be an easy fitting for the professional 

I'd try to answer your question but you never said what is "wrong" after your fitting?   If it is feel,  I would say it isn't the fitter but your didn't provide input on what you experienced during the fitting.    A fitter can't evaluate what you are feeling;  they can only help dial in number based on what you are doing.  

[Jim Shaw]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

I'd try to answer your question but you never said what is "wrong" after your fitting?   If it is feel,  I would say it isn't the fitter but your didn't provide input on what you experienced during the fitting.    A fitter can't evaluate what you are feeling;  they can only help dial in number based on what you are doing.  

Sorry @cnosil, I may not have been clear enough in my original post, I am struggling with the process of fitting for me. I was hoping the fitter would say “this is definitely the shaft for you “ but that didn’t happen. And I thought it would. 
it took me about 2 weeks to feel confortable with my new shafts but they are good now, 

[ZackS]

4 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

Ahh, so what you are saying is it is actually more difficult to fit better players? 

Yes and no, but definitely think need to be handled a little differently. A good player not only needs less shots to see what’s happening because they will be more consistent. But a better player will also usually have a better ability to adjust to what they are seeing. So someone like you if you see the ball go left a few time in a row with a shaft you will probably adjust to straighten things out and the numbers “launch, spin, etc” are good after that but it was still from an adjustment to do so. And then because the numbers end up being good you never end up trying a shaft that you just time naturally and don’t need to adjust too. You can see how this scenario could then lead to you needing some time to get used to the adjustment you made to your swing for the shaft. If you have never watched Trottie Golf on YouTube he is on a different level then most of us have access too but he will take clubs back after only a few swings knowing it’s not right before the player starts to adjust. This might be a bit of a crazy idea. But wonder if you might not benefit from blind testing shafts indoors with the screen off. Hit 5 shots with each then the fitter can show which you had the best results with. Then you can take the top few and narrow down from there with the screen back on. 

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

Sorry @cnosil, I may not have been clear enough in my original post, I am struggling with the process of fitting for me. I was hoping the fitter would say “this is definitely the shaft for you “ but that didn’t happen. And I thought it would. 
it took me about 2 weeks to feel confortable with my new shafts but they are good now, 

I personally don't think that will ever happen in a fitting.  Fitters have preferences and there are multiple ways to get to the same place which to a fitter means the numbers are close to optimal from a smash factor, spin, decent angle, launch angle, distance, etc. Basically a numerical assessment of performance.  Go to top tier fitters and you could get 3 completely different answers and none of them are wrong. 

When you say comfortable I am assuming that you mean how the shaft feels in the swing and not how it performs.  A fitter can't assess that at all.  You may hit a shaft perfectly on the launch monitor but it doesn't feel right to you.   The bigger question for you is did the shaft feel the same way in fitting that it did when you first started using it on the course? 

[Jim Shaw]

19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I personally don't think that will ever happen in a fitting.  Fitters have preferences and there are multiple ways to get to the same place which to a fitter means the numbers are close to optimal from a smash factor, spin, decent angle, launch angle, distance, etc. Basically a numerical assessment of performance.  Go to top tier fitters and you could get 3 completely different answers and none of them are wrong. 

When you say comfortable I am assuming that you mean how the shaft feels in the swing and not how it performs.  A fitter can't assess that at all.  You may hit a shaft perfectly on the launch monitor but it doesn't feel right to you.   The bigger question for you is did the shaft feel the same way in fitting that it did when you first started using it on the course? 

No, I mean how it performs, my clubs are tools and if they don’t perform to my standards then new tools are needed. 
originally when I went for a fitting it was because I had the same clubs for 8 years and was thinking new technology and materials would enhance my performance, and to that end I am right, I just thought with my skill level the fitting would have been a lot more precise and definitive, talking about it on this site is good. 

[cnosil]

11 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

No, I mean how it performs, my clubs are tools and if they don’t perform to my standards then new tools are needed. 
originally when I went for a fitting it was because I had the same clubs for 8 years and was thinking new technology and materials would enhance my performance, and to that end I am right, I just thought with my skill level the fitting would have been a lot more precise and definitive, talking about it on this site is good. 

I think you have too great of an expectation in the initial shaft fitting especially as a low index player with a self described very consistent swing.   It also sounds like you go to a fitter,  let him hand you clubs and shafts and wait for the solution at the end.  With a PGA pro it is an information exchange on what the player is looking for, what they feel, what the like and dislike.   

You were looking for increased performance, but that really needs more definitive definition. You always talk about reducing dispersion patterns which ties into face angle relation to path and with the consistent swing you have, you are probably talking about less than a degree of optimization.   I am assuming you achieved that with the club you were fit with.     

Then you have the environment in which you are doing the fitting.  If your fitting was indoors, there are people that struggle to hit in bays and the the difference in launch monitors reading partial ball flights.   I won't say mats simply because you have great ball striking and don't struggle with fat shots and readings that may be improved by the mat.   

the next part is feel,  which I have been referencing, but you have basically dismissed with your post.   Feel is extremely important in a fitting as it influences how you deliver the club and thus the resulting performance.  

Then you get into what you essentially do for 2-3 weeks which is tweak your swing to make the clubs work.  This is what good players can do.   Ideally you have a follow up fitting session and go through each club to tweak the club to ensure they are all working correctly and match up to the club you used in the fitting.  this would be tweaks to the loft, lie, and weighting to help ensure that you are delivering each club ideally with your same swing.    I think the second half of the fitting would give you the precision you are looking for.  

[Jim Shaw]

21 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think you have too great of an expectation in the initial shaft fitting especially as a low index player with a self described very consistent swing.   It also sounds like you go to a fitter,  let him hand you clubs and shafts and wait for the solution at the end.  With a PGA pro it is an information exchange on what the player is looking for, what they feel, what the like and dislike.   

You were looking for increased performance, but that really needs more definitive definition. You always talk about reducing dispersion patterns which ties into face angle relation to path and with the consistent swing you have, you are probably talking about less than a degree of optimization.   I am assuming you achieved that with the club you were fit with.     

Then you have the environment in which you are doing the fitting.  If your fitting was indoors, there are people that struggle to hit in bays and the the difference in launch monitors reading partial ball flights.   I won't say mats simply because you have great ball striking and don't struggle with fat shots and readings that may be improved by the mat.   

the next part is feel,  which I have been referencing, but you have basically dismissed with your post.   Feel is extremely important in a fitting as it influences how you deliver the club and thus the resulting performance.  

Then you get into what you essentially do for 2-3 weeks which is tweak your swing to make the clubs work.  This is what good players can do.   Ideally you have a follow up fitting session and go through each club to tweak the club to ensure they are all working correctly and match up to the club you used in the fitting.  this would be tweaks to the loft, lie, and weighting to help ensure that you are delivering each club ideally with your same swing.    I think the second half of the fitting would give you the precision you are looking for.  

For sure my expectation wasn’t met, having said that, I am the customer and am paying my money. At the end of the day I was disappointed with my fitting. And my question to the forum did give me some good feedback.

[NM01]

On 12/16/2023 at 10:54 AM, Clubs by Buzz said:

If your shaft is installed in the wrong position you end up fighting the shaft. Spining or "truing" a shaft is the most important step.   If the spine is not properly aligned your dispersion will not be tight.   Stock shafts seem to be hit or miss in alignment.   

Enough data out there including tests by txg that show this isn’t 100% true. If it was that magical then every pro would be doing it and that’s not the case.

Accra has done testing of it with their shafts and show no change as well