Trackman

[Golf Circuit (James)]

Hey guys - anyone out there taking lessons or working with an instructor who uses the Trackman launch monitor? What's your experience? I'm excited to hear what you think!

[Kanoito]

I took 1 lesson a couple of months ago.

The things Trackman shows on-screen are pretty much self-explanatory.

 

It certainly was useful for my driver fitting, the instructor gave a me a load of sticks with interchangeable shafts to play around. By the end of the day, I couldn't lift my arms

 

For some the best LM out there (let's not get into comparisons), for me the right tool that provides the info I need.

 

Trackman use is free with each lesson booked with the instructors.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Unfortunately, at least in my general area, there aren't a lot of instructors who incorporate any sort of launch monitor into their lessons. To the best of my knowledge, there's only a single flightscope within a 50 mile radius (and it's used exclusively for fitting), and not a single Trackman.

 

Kent at Tark's Indoor Golf has some great tools (aboutGolf 3Trak, K-Vest, video analysis, etc.), but the club tracking capabilities of the AG system so far have proven spotty at best. Saratoga National now has a GC2, but I'm not sure to what extent it's being used for club/path tracking.

 

From what we're hearing, interest levels in LM-assisted lessons is on the rise, but from the instructors side of things the units themselves (trackman especially) can be cost prohibitive. It's difficult for the guys who don't have an associated fitting business to justify.

[Matt Saternus]

Unfortunately, at least in my general area, there aren't a lot of instructors who incorporate any sort of launch monitor into their lessons. To the best of my knowledge, there's only a single flightscope within a 50 mile radius (and it's used exclusively for fitting), and not a single Trackman.

 

Kent at Tark's Indoor Golf has some great tools (aboutGolf 3Trak, K-Vest, video analysis, etc.), but the club tracking capabilities of the AG system so far have proven spotty at best. Saratoga National now has a GC2, but I'm not sure to what extent it's being used for club/path tracking.

 

From what we're hearing, interest levels in LM-assisted lessons is on the rise, but from the instructors side of things the units themselves (trackman especially) can be cost prohibitive. It's difficult for the guys who don't have an associated fitting business to justify.

 

It's tough, as both a fitter and an instructor: your customers want the best LMs, but are there enough customers and will they pay for you to have one? If you think about a quality LM being at least a $10K investment, well, that's a LOT of lessons before you just break even. Consider that even at $100/lesson (which would be pretty steep around here), you have to teach 100 lessons. With a VERY full book, that's 2 weeks of teaching...TO BREAK EVEN. For a new instructor without a full book? They could be teaching for a month to pay it off.

 

I saw the results of a SI Golf survey that indicated over 70% of their readers had NO INTEREST in taking lessons. This is 70% of people who read a golf magazine, so, ostensibly, they're "into" golf, and they DON'T WANT LESSONS. It would be hard for me, as a hypothetical golf pro, to invest 10K or more, when I see numbers like that.

 

LMs are GREAT teaching tools, so much so that, personally, I wouldn't be very interested in a (full swing) lesson that didn't include one. That said, you have to be willing to pay for it because the instructor's investment is very substantial.

[JMiller]

I don't see Trackman used very often anymore it seems like most of the time you are doing a fitting inside and a lot of lessons are now done indoors as well. Trackman III requires at least 3.5meters of space (roughly 11'6") of ball flight for it to pick up indoors. The older models of trackman require about 6 meters roughly in ball flight, I found an old home studio configuration that trackman suggests --> http://trackman.dk/homestudio/requirements.php

 

Trackman is a beast outdoors but again with the large price tag up around $20k to $30k for the entire set up that is a huge chunk of change for the non high dollar instructor and fitter to pay. As Matt said the demographics and just shear number of people that play golf that don't want lessons I would say this price tag is just not worth it to small stores and instructors.

 

I see a lot more Foresight and FlightScope LMs around then trackman now a days. I would have to assume this has to do with both hitting space indoors and the price tag that they can be obtained for. However FlightScope indoors requires a good amount of hitting space and markings on the golf ball to detect spin --> http://www.flightscope.com/index.php/FlightScope-Radar/flightscope-setup.html

 

I think I am starting to see more and more Foresight CG2 pop up and people adding the HMT to the CG2 to give them minimal ball flight requirements indoors so that they have more room in the store for products rather then fitting and instructional areas. Over all I think trackman is a good product and best utilized outdoors and is probably the best on the market for outdoor use, I think there are better options for indoor applications of the LM.

[Matt Saternus]

Foresight did a very interesting thing in releasing the CG2 well in advance of the Head Tracking piece, and then gut-punching everyone by charging the same amount for head tracking as for the launch monitor itself (I know one large company that was expecting the Head Tracking to come in around $1-3K which was part of why they bought the CG2's. They were not thrilled to find it selling or $6500).

 

Also, the Foresight Head Tracking requires you to mark your clubs, which is not practical from a teaching perspective.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Foresight a lot as an indoor launch monitor, more an OT comment on their business plan.

[JMiller]

Foresight did a very interesting thing in releasing the CG2 well in advance of the Head Tracking piece, and then gut-punching everyone by charging the same amount for head tracking as for the launch monitor itself (I know one large company that was expecting the Head Tracking to come in around $1-3K which was part of why they bought the CG2's. They were not thrilled to find it selling or $6500).

 

Also, the Foresight Head Tracking requires you to mark your clubs, which is not practical from a teaching perspective.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Foresight a lot as an indoor launch monitor, more an OT comment on their business plan.

 

I did not know that about the Foresight Head Tracking, good to know... sounds like that has some major draw backs. I am of personal belief that if you have to place marks on a ball or club to track and aspect of the swing then something is wrong given today's technology. It seems that Trackman is the only company that is able to do that effectively without marking anything even indoors if you have the space for the minimal ball flight requirements.

 

From a fitting perspective, I think it would depend on your space allowances and client base. For example if you only have space for a 10' hitting bay you can't buy a Trackman III regardless if you have the client base to recover the costs in charging for fittings. I know that my friend went with a CG2 for simple fact it works great and has no space requirements, that shop is Miura dealer and recently became an Adams Tour Teach shop. For them the solution was easy to make, don't really need HMT with it when you have a 20+ year experienced master fitter watching your golf swing, you just have to trust that person knows what they are doing.

 

You would be able to comment on an instructional perspective more then me, however I would think that two $300 video cameras and a software plus a CG2 would probably get the job done in most cases. If you are looking for the high end experience for clients at a country club you might consider getting a trackman because you'd be charging $200+ an hour.

 

That is just my 2 cents I might be WAY off on that opinion but whatever

[Matt Saternus]

 

You would be able to comment on an instructional perspective more then me, however I would think that two $300 video cameras and a software plus a CG2 would probably get the job done in most cases. If you are looking for the high end experience for clients at a country club you might consider getting a trackman because you'd be charging $200+ an hour.

 

That is just my 2 cents I might be WAY off on that opinion but whatever

 

If you're going to set up a teaching studio, the cameras are non-negotiable, and not all that expensive. There are simply too many guys teaching with video to be that one hold out who says, "I don't need it." And you do need it. The swing happens too damn fast to see it with the naked eye, plus you want to be able to SHOW the student, not just tell them.

 

It's a tough call between the CG2 and Trackman/Flightscope (and one I'm happy I don't have to make). To get the CG2 up and running with the software you're at $10K very quickly. You can get a FlightScope for around that number and get all the club data that is so important. I think it comes down to where you're teaching. Indoors, CG2 makes a ton of sense. Outdoor, I would probably say FlightScope/Trackman or nothing. On the range, the CG2 doesn't add much to the teaching experience unless you have the Head Tracking (at which point you might as well buy something radar based).

[Tony Covey MGS]

Foresight did a very interesting thing in releasing the CG2 well in advance of the Head Tracking piece, and then gut-punching everyone by charging the same amount for head tracking as for the launch monitor itself (I know one large company that was expecting the Head Tracking to come in around $1-3K which was part of why they bought the CG2's. They were not thrilled to find it selling or $6500).

 

Also, the Foresight Head Tracking requires you to mark your clubs, which is not practical from a teaching perspective.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Foresight a lot as an indoor launch monitor, more an OT comment on their business plan.

 

Staying off topic for a moment... that's either incredibly brilliant, or deviously shady...you know, from a business perspective. Either that, or the tracking piece cost more to produce that ForeSight originally anticipated

 

Worth noting, aboutGolf's 3Trak system also requires stickers be placed on the clubs in order to properly track the movement of the head. From what I saw at the PGA show, the GC2 implementation wasn't that bad. If it works reliably, the time it takes to affix a few stickers to a couple of clubs for a 1 hour lesson is no big deal.

 

Even FlightScope requires metallic dots to be placed on the golf ball to accurately measure spin indoors.

 

All the systems, even the venerable Trackman, have their quirks.

[Golf Circuit (James)]

This is great thanks for all the feedback guys!

[Richie3Jack]

I use Trackman a little bit. I understand the numbers perfectly, so I can just rent it out and use it in conjunction with the mechanics and instruction my swing instructor and I have discussed. For instance, if my attack angle is too steep with my driver, then I know of certain mechanics in my swing that my instructor and I have discussed to shallow out the attack angle.

 

What's neat about Trackman, particularly if it is setup where you take a swing and glance at the numbers, take another swing and glance at the numbers…..is that you can start to develop the feel for the swing you need in order to replicate those numbers and consistently hit the ball better.

 

For instance, let's say you ‘hang back' too much on the downswing and you know that when you do, it causes you to lose some clubhead speed. So you then work on not hanging back and you start to feel that if you try and move your body forward in the downswing that your clubhead speed goes up. And then you keep working at that until you max out your clubhead speed. Now you are starting to develop that right feel that works for you and you can take it with you.

 

Trackman is not the magic pill that will cure all ills. If your instructor has flawed or illogical instruction, Trackman alone probably will not help you much. But, if the instructor is pretty good, combine that with Trackman it can dramatically improve your game.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[pmetzger1]

i went to a place where they had a trackman you could use by the hour. it was good to see numbers but honestly i don't think it was all that useful unless you're being fit for clubs. in that case i think it could help tremendously. it can also help if you don't have a rangefinder to give you average distances for all of your clubs and different wedge shots. so that you know when you're 156 out which club you'll hit that far. that can be very useful because i think when it comes to club distance most people think they hit a club a lot farther than they do. kind of like asking a guy how much he benches...what he says and what he does are usually way off.

[wbealsd]

I was able to pick up a slightly used GC2 from an indoor golf business that didn't really "get off the ground", so I got a substantial discount by buying one from the owner bundled with the PC, projector and the fitting software plus 5 courses. My building for "winter golf" should be finished within a couple of weeks where I'll have an impact screen and putting turf setup. I'll post some pictures when I've got the interior setup for use.

 

So far, I've just been able to use it a few times outside on the range, which I've found very helpful for working on consistency. I don't really feel like the HMT (Head Measurement Technology) add-on is worth the price and, not to start a heated discussion, but given the choice between accurate launch data don't feel like the club data is all that vital.

 

We've got long cold winters in South Dakota, so over the long haul, just being able to practice constructively and stay in "golf shape" over the winter is really exciting to me =|;0-)

 

A friend of mine builds clubs and and I'll lend it out to my golf pro for some lessons, so maybe what I save in club fittings, golf lessons and trips to warm weather in the winter, I'll break even - lol

 

If not, I'll have a year 'round golf season and a lot of fun with my friends.

 

Since I only work to pay for golf anyway, so it seems like a reasonable deal, to me.

 

Does anyone else have a golf simulation setup for practice / play during bad weather?

[Matt Saternus]

i went to a place where they had a trackman you could use by the hour. it was good to see numbers but honestly i don't think it was all that useful unless you're being fit for clubs. in that case i think it could help tremendously. it can also help if you don't have a rangefinder to give you average distances for all of your clubs and different wedge shots. so that you know when you're 156 out which club you'll hit that far. that can be very useful because i think when it comes to club distance most people think they hit a club a lot farther than they do. kind of like asking a guy how much he benches...what he says and what he does are usually way off.

 

Were you looking at the club data or just the ball data (carry, total, etc)?

 

I was able to pick up a slightly used GC2 from an indoor golf business that didn't really "get off the ground", so I got a substantial discount by buying one from the owner bundled with the PC, projector and the fitting software plus 5 courses. My building for "winter golf" should be finished within a couple of weeks where I'll have an impact screen and putting turf setup. I'll post some pictures when I've got the interior setup for use.

 

So far, I've just been able to use it a few times outside on the range, which I've found very helpful for working on consistency. I don't really feel like the HMT (Head Measurement Technology) add-on is worth the price and, not to start a heated discussion, but given the choice between accurate launch data don't feel like the club data is all that vital.

 

We've got long cold winters in South Dakota, so over the long haul, just being able to practice constructively and stay in "golf shape" over the winter is really exciting to me =|;0-)

 

A friend of mine builds clubs and and I'll lend it out to my golf pro for some lessons, so maybe what I save in club fittings, golf lessons and trips to warm weather in the winter, I'll break even - lol

 

If not, I'll have a year 'round golf season and a lot of fun with my friends.

 

Since I only work to pay for golf anyway, so it seems like a reasonable deal, to me.

 

Does anyone else have a golf simulation setup for practice / play during bad weather?

 

Sounds like you're going to have a great set up!

 

I'll disagree with you 100% about the launch data vs. the club data, but I'd rather see some pics of your set up than argue the point.

[wbealsd]

GolfSpy Matt, The discussions of ball data vs club data can get pretty involved and, obviously I'd love to have both but it doesn't look like I've got the winning Powerball ticket, so that will have to wait - lol Seriously, I was planning on building a Protee system from components when the GC2 became available and was too good a deal to pass up. All "simulation" systems available are going to involve trade-offs, especially if you've got a "normal budget", but they can be good tools for training, practice and having fun!

 

The subcontractor had some equipment problem this week, so I'm still waiting to get the interior finished, but I should be able to post some pics SOON (and it will be high 50s this weekend, so I'll be on the course - lol