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Agreed with jmiller and will add the following advice. When the ball is below the feet think of sitting on a bar stool to get enough knee flex. If it's pronounced you really have to stay down on the ball and not try and get too much out of it.

 

I also think it's very important to find a spot behind or in front of the ball that is as similar to the stance/lie you'll face and take a number of practice swings to see where the club will contact the ground - that will help you play the ball in the proper spot in your stance and to choke up enough when the ball is above your feet.

 

You want to be comfortable before hitting the shot so that you don't have to think about what you're doing while you're hitting it -

 

I had three terrible ball below the feet lies on Tuesday - I was 2/3 in terms of executing good shots - the other one was complicated by the fact that I was in thick, gnarly rough - at least I got the ball across the hazzard that I had to cross but I didn't get it anywhere near the green - the 2 1/2 inch bermuda just grapped my club and twisted it.

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A while ago I had a situation where the ball was top of the chest high because it was sitting on the side of a very steep hill. How would you (or any of the low cappers) recommend playing this shot?

 

What I did and don't recommend is whacking at it, causing it to dribble the rest of the way down the hill, then I took a more normal shot from heavy rough...

 

I've never had a shot that high before....I imagine I'd be swinging at it like someone threw me a hard high fastball :)

 

But I bet I'd get the same result as you ;)

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A while ago I had a situation where the ball was top of the chest high because it was sitting on the side of a very steep hill. How would you (or any of the low cappers) recommend playing this shot?

 

What I did and don't recommend is whacking at it, causing it to dribble the rest of the way down the hill, then I took a more normal shot from heavy rough...

 

Good advice from the boys! I would add that whenever you have a crazy lie like that, make sure you are using a club that you feel comfortable with, and take a 3/4 swing. You're not going to be hitting any miracle shots, so make a conservative plan that you feel confident with.

 

Club up, choke down, and make a nice controlled swing.

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"Club up, choke down, and make a nice controlled swing" could work all the way round the course!!!!!!!

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"Club up, choke down, and make a nice controlled swing" could work all the way round the course!!!!!!!

I agree completely, I think it takes a long time for golfers to finally get it in their head that you don't need to work hard in your body to hit the ball a long way, you just need good swing sequencing.

 

Tour Pro talk about their reserve distance in the tank that when they need a little extra they can reach down and get a little more from it. If you are always swinging at 100% there is no way to leave something in the tank for reserve. So they have to be swinging 60 to 80% of their full potential power.

 

It is always better to have a ball safe in the middle of the fairway then in a place it costs you one or more strokes to recover from. Sitting here watching The Open man you find a bunker you would be toast 9 times out of 10. Thus why a lot of people are playing fairway, hybrid, 2iron off the tee boxes on par 4s and par 5s. A ton of course management and course strategy going on this week, love to see it get talked about so much on TV as it is one topic most players don't even consider.

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To add:

 

Tour pros and any top level player does not just send the ball way out there into the fairway. He looks for a favorable place for his second shot that will be comfortable and advantageous for a shot at the flag. This is one of the advantages of a long player. He does not need to shoot full every time even with a Driver in hand but is always shooting at a target.

 

 

Shambles

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To add:

 

Tour pros and any top level player does not just send the ball way out there into the fairway. He looks for a favorable place for his second shot that will be comfortable and advantageous for a shot at the flag. This is one of the advantages of a long player. He does not need to shoot full every time even with a Driver in hand but is always shooting at a target.

 

 

Shambles

 

 

Frankly it's the advantage of any player with half a brain - I may not be the longest but if the rough is up I can hit it on the green pretty consistently from the fairway at 200 and not so consistently from the rough at 170.

 

Tour pros are another matter - sometimes they will take postion and angle over fairway - if the rough is not up I will do the same - may be far better to be in the so called rough with a good angle to the pin than the fairway on the other side or worse yet in the fairway in a spot that took on the pond.

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Golf is a funny game, one day you have it firing on all cylinders and golf is so easy. Then the next day it is a grind just to keep from drowning into a terrible score and round. We here it on the tour all the time "It is really hard to back up a really low round with another low round the next day".

 

I am wanting to know what exactly makes this happen, obviously if it happens to the best players in the world it can't be something in the swing or can it?

Anyone want to share their opinion or give advise on this subject?

 

This situation happened to me recently, I played 9 holes after work on Friday shot a bogey free 3 under 33. Then the very next day on the same 9 hole stretch I scrapped it around just to shot a 39. I won't really talk about the back 9 on Saturday as it was a complete disaster. Something was different and it wasn't my mental state. The only thing I have come up with is that my tempo was just a slight bit different from Friday into Saturday, the swing positions felt exactly the same.

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Man if I had the answer to that question JMiller I'd be rich.

 

For those of us who work day jobs I think that stress of life plays a huge factor in how we play. Are we able to forget about what happened at work or is it sitting there just beneath the surface? If you do anyting physcial (obviously my job isn't physical but for me it could be lifting my daughter wrong) sometimes that tweak is just enough to through the tempo/timing of the swing off.

 

The bigger thing though seems to be putting - when that's on the score comes regardless of how well I hit the ball - at least at the level I'm at - I don't hit it far enough to get into that much trouble there. Honestly my entire game is designed to allow my putting to shine - so long as it does or at least semi-does - I'm fine - when it goes south and sometimes it does and who knows why - well then it's all over.

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Man if I had the answer to that question JMiller I'd be rich.

 

For those of us who work day jobs I think that stress of life plays a huge factor in how we play. Are we able to forget about what happened at work or is it sitting there just beneath the surface? If you do anyting physcial (obviously my job isn't physical but for me it could be lifting my daughter wrong) sometimes that tweak is just enough to through the tempo/timing of the swing off.

 

The bigger thing though seems to be putting - when that's on the score comes regardless of how well I hit the ball - at least at the level I'm at - I don't hit it far enough to get into that much trouble there. Honestly my entire game is designed to allow my putting to shine - so long as it does or at least semi-does - I'm fine - when it goes south and sometimes it does and who knows why - well then it's all over.

 

I think there is more than a grain of truth to the theory that many golfers play better after a beer (more than one and things go back the other way). It is a social lubricant. The alcohol places the stress of life outside the game on the backburner and allows the player to 'just swing'. All this, for the very reasons you mention. Some days, our bodies and minds simply aren't in the here and now, and because of that, we overswing, overthink and most importantly fail to focus. The end results are the 99 Monday,89 Wed, 79 Saturday rounds.

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Man, I have been on this site constantly since November, I leave page open and flip to often through out the day, especially when I need a break, and for some reason I have ignored this thread. As Phil said, "I am an idiot!' because there has been some good stuff.

 

First off, the calluses thing. I do not use a golf except when I am really sweating. This is mainly because if you play every day then you have to have a glove budget. I was needing a new glove every two or three weeks. When I had the multi compound grips. I went to the softer tour wraps and no more glove and it was easier on the hands. Also, I have added a lot of tape beneath oversized grips. A girp is 13" so every two inches I have a wrap of tape. Starting at the base of the club I have 3 wraps, then 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 wraps. This makes the grip huge. This accomplishes two things, first, it quiets the hands and second it reduces calluses drastically.

 

My calluses have subsided in recent months. I really only have small calluses from my wedding ring and my class ring (Texas A&M University) However, I changed from the interlocking grip to the Vardon grip and I now have a calluse that is very sensative on the side of my left index finger on my left hand and the wing finger of my right hand. This may be the bruising that Rev was talking about, I do not know because I do not bruise. This is almost a curse because many times I have hurt something and I have nothing to show for it. If I bruised at least I could say I have a bruise, but for what ever medical reason there is, I have no color change and have never had a bruise show up.

 

On the subject of playing well one day and not the next, truthfully, I obviously am not the one to answer this because I could not even keep it together for one round not to mention two days.:rolleyes: But it is tempo, tempo, tempo. I do not spend much time on the range. If I hit 7 balls before the round that is a lot. Typically, I hit three or four balls with a 7 iron to engrain the tempo, and then go putt. If my tempo is good with those balls I try to hit with the same tempo every shot. However, when I start to press (trying to birdie every hole) my tempo gets a little quicker, and I try to hit the ball a little harder, and this does not work out very well in the end. I wish there was someone to thump me in the forehead during the round when things start to go bad. I am thinking of writing it down on a card and putting it in an envelope in my bag that says "In case of double bogey open this." And inside it say Tempo, Tempo, Tempo.

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Man if I had the answer to that question JMiller I'd be rich.

 

For those of us who work day jobs I think that stress of life plays a huge factor in how we play. Are we able to forget about what happened at work or is it sitting there just beneath the surface? If you do anyting physcial (obviously my job isn't physical but for me it could be lifting my daughter wrong) sometimes that tweak is just enough to through the tempo/timing of the swing off.

 

The bigger thing though seems to be putting - when that's on the score comes regardless of how well I hit the ball - at least at the level I'm at - I don't hit it far enough to get into that much trouble there. Honestly my entire game is designed to allow my putting to shine - so long as it does or at least semi-does - I'm fine - when it goes south and sometimes it does and who knows why - well then it's all over.

 

I think dru_ suggested drinking to take the edge off, I don't drink on the course and really don't drink that much in life in general mostly for personal reasons that I don't feel like sharing with the world. I don't see the use of alcohol a good way to relax your emotions and mind, it can turn into a need to drink to be able to function over the long haul.

 

 

Well, I work on Friday's and don't work on Saturday's I shot the better score after work and not on the weekend, I felt like Tiger Woods on the weekend on a major, I'm good to go on Thursday and Friday but can't seem to go low on Saturday and Sunday :lol:

 

Well starting with putting, I actually made a few really great putts to save par and even make one birdie on the front 9 to break 40. If anything was actually working well that day it was my putter which is a good sign as I have been working a lot with it and wanting to putt better it is finally coming around and the confidence is their when the greens are not punched and bumpy.

 

Looking at my chip / pitch game it actually bailed me out a few different times in really hard situations making pars that really had no business getting that score. I think I saved 4/4 from the grass to get up and down. My Bunker game was HORRID, wet compact sand that played more like a powder, I couldn't seem to get out of a bunker and save a par to save my life that day, It cost me two of my double bogeys on the day and a bogey.

 

Anything longer then a 1/4 swing was just flat off, 1/2 swings, 3/4 swings, full swings I couldn't make that great of contact and when I did make great contact it seemed that I didn't have much control on the shots. I hit a lot of fairways with what I would call "great misses" meaning that I completely miss hit the shot but it ended up in the fairway.

 

I ended up not being able to play golf on Sunday or Yesterday (Monday) because my right elbow was sore as heck. I think that gave me the key to what went wrong in the swing on Saturday if i came away from the round with an injury. I feel that my right elbow broke down and folded more then 90* and started getting pitchers elbow or tennis elbow type symptoms after the round. This could also explain the bad tempo and timing, when my right arm folds to much the swing gets longer then what IO was using on Friday to shoot the great score and my timing / tempo ended up being off going into impact, a lot of late release leaks and big cuts.

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I think dru_ suggested drinking to take the edge off, I don't drink on the course and really don't drink that much in life in general mostly for personal reasons that I don't feel like sharing with the world. I don't see the use of alcohol a good way to relax your emotions and mind, it can turn into a need to drink to be able to function over the long haul.

 

 

Well, I work on Friday's and don't work on Saturday's I shot the better score after work and not on the weekend, I felt like Tiger Woods on the weekend on a major, I'm good to go on Thursday and Friday but can't seem to go low on Saturday and Sunday :lol:

 

Well starting with putting, I actually made a few really great putts to save par and even make one birdie on the front 9 to break 40. If anything was actually working well that day it was my putter which is a good sign as I have been working a lot with it and wanting to putt better it is finally coming around and the confidence is their when the greens are not punched and bumpy.

 

Looking at my chip / pitch game it actually bailed me out a few different times in really hard situations making pars that really had no business getting that score. I think I saved 4/4 from the grass to get up and down. My Bunker game was HORRID, wet compact sand that played more like a powder, I couldn't seem to get out of a bunker and save a par to save my life that day, It cost me two of my double bogeys on the day and a bogey.

 

Anything longer then a 1/4 swing was just flat off, 1/2 swings, 3/4 swings, full swings I couldn't make that great of contact and when I did make great contact it seemed that I didn't have much control on the shots. I hit a lot of fairways with what I would call "great misses" meaning that I completely miss hit the shot but it ended up in the fairway.

 

I ended up not being able to play golf on Sunday or Yesterday (Monday) because my right elbow was sore as heck. I think that gave me the key to what went wrong in the swing on Saturday if i came away from the round with an injury. I feel that my right elbow broke down and folded more then 90* and started getting pitchers elbow or tennis elbow type symptoms after the round. This could also explain the bad tempo and timing, when my right arm folds to much the swing gets longer then what IO was using on Friday to shoot the great score and my timing / tempo ended up being off going into impact, a lot of late release leaks and big cuts.

 

I am not advocating alcohol, only noting that there may well be some truth there. Like you, I choose not to drink much in life, and less on the course. I personally have other methods of shedding the 'cruft' ( I will explain in a minute, patience is a virtue ).

 

The thing is, there is alot that goes into a round of golf, mental, physical and external. If any one of them changes between two rounds, or even two holes, the result changes, often dramatically. Finding a way to remove mental roadblocks, particularly ones that contribute to physical roadblocks is a big key to consistency in any physical activity, not just golf. Alcohol happens to be one much loved by many casual players, it is not a solution favored by most serious amateurs though, for a number of reasons, but there are good arguments that the physical side effects are sufficient to prevent it's use as a tool.

 

Personally, I did two things that have helped me separate 'work' from 'life' a couple of years ago. Combined, these have allowed me to make very real changes to my lifestyle and health, both mental and physical. I've made no secret that I've lost a good bit of weight and gained a good bit of fitness. I haven't really come right out and said it though.

 

I am a small business owner, and have been for about 15 years. During the first 12 of those, I gained nearly 65 pounds, lost a lot of fitness and along the way I turned into and ogre in my personal life. My blood pressure was high, my cholesterol was high, my temper was short, and well generally, I sucked to be around. I actually went back to playing golf as a way to get some time each week away from work and even the house where I was so at odds with my children over inane stuff that I wanted to be away to prevent saying the things that went through my head. Golf at that point, was really just another exercise in frustration. I was playing to a 30 handicap on a regular basis, losing balls and letting the temper get the better of me.

 

At this point, I had already found one thing that was effective at seperating me from work, and that was riding a motorcycle or scooter to and from work when the weather was nice, but I sill had a car and used it entirely too often.

 

Somewhere along the way though, a friend convinced me to hit a yoga class to improve my flexibility. So I did. Now, this is not one of the spirituality style yoga classes, this is about learning your body, breathing, stretching, balance and control. Who knew 60 minutes of sitting, standing and stretching could leave you hurting more than a 60 minute P90X routine! Doing that helped.

 

Then about 18 months ago, I bit the bullet, and got serious about fixing ME. The first step was giving my car to my daughter. I now ride one of my bikes (pedal or motorized) everywhere, every day ( yes, even hauling my golf clubs to the various courses I play, everything goes on the bikes ). The commute which was once a time to stew and be frustrated became a time to decompress, breathe the fresh air. The second was getting fit through a mixture of running, riding, swimming and yoga.

 

The last bit was learning to breathe. Seriously.

 

We all breathe all the time, what we don't realize is how our breathing impacts our bodies. It is balance, control, focus, and other tidbits. Learning to breathe has such a huge impact on our physical and mental states. When our breathing is slow and measured, our bodies relax, our minds can focus and we can let go quite a bit easier.

 

Think about the times you are out playing. You hit that tee shot, and it's up a good hill. You grab a couple of clubs, and go mountain climbing. You get to the ball, huffing and puffing, line it up, practice swing, set it up and shank it. Why is that? Your physical and mental state isn't there yet, you are still recovering from irregularities of the elevated heart rate, elevated respiratory rate. If you control your breathing both during the climb and as part of your swing prep, your body relaxes and you can perform in a more 'normal' pattern.

 

In my own experience, I am NOT a runner. I have terrible knees, and I will never be a fast runner. That's fine, I do it because I want to do it with my brother, who is a runner and is a fast runner. I can perform like a runner if when I discipline my breathing. If I let my body slip into the panting that is so natural when the heartrate comes up, then my performance suffers, badly. ( I can sustain and 8:15 mile for 13 miles if I control my breathing, if I don't, that number goes to 11:30).

 

So, while yes alcohol is a commonly used method to relax your body, I personally advocate a bit of breathing. When you hit that first tee box and everyone is finishing up the pre-first-tee routine, stand up, close your eyes, focus on your breathing and heart rate, let go of everything else. Breathe deeply through your nose. Bring your heart rate and reap rate down. Do this for a count of 30 or 60. Open your eyes, and continue your routine.

 

For me, I find this far more effective than anything else. I find that I use the same technique during a round (or even during a stressful day) to shed the cruft we build up, both good and bad. How many times have you had a string of good holes going and then implode because you get too excited?

 

I don't know that it will work for everyone, but the one big take away from yoga for me was that everything starts with breathing. Control, balance, clarity.

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James,

 

Do you have any good swing path drills? I have been struggling with a swing path that is getting WAY inside and leading to one of three shots, a straight push, a giant hook, or a shank (with the wedges). I have been laying my alignment sticks on the ground to get started on the right path, but I was looking for something more. The other day, I jokingly said I was just going to start making a Furyk swing (or what I felt was a Furyk swing) and my cousin and instructor both said that it was a perfect path. Even with my alignment sticks on the ground on what I think is a good path, if feels way inside to the "Furyk" swing.

 

Thanks,

 

JBones

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James,

 

Do you have any good swing path drills? I have been struggling with a swing path that is getting WAY inside and leading to one of three shots, a straight push, a giant hook, or a shank (with the wedges). I have been laying my alignment sticks on the ground to get started on the right path, but I was looking for something more. The other day, I jokingly said I was just going to start making a Furyk swing (or what I felt was a Furyk swing) and my cousin and instructor both said that it was a perfect path. Even with my alignment sticks on the ground on what I think is a good path, if feels way inside to the "Furyk" swing.

 

Thanks,

 

JBones

 

I have this problem myself. Especially when it get down to crunch time, 8th and 17th hole, perfect drive, in a postition to go for the flag, and get too aggressive and come inside too much, and pull the ball into jungle. I also tend to do this on all the par 3's. Lately I have been focusing on keeping the head outside the hands on the way back and then swing through. This is a mini Jim Furyk but it makes so much difference.

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I liked to know if there is a fix for getting stuck inside as well - I think that's the better players error - generally when I have that problem, I have that problem, it doesn't pop up suddenly out of no where.

 

Back to Dru's post - mental state is a huge deal for golf - there are lots of factors that can and do impact how we play. Sounds like you've found some good coping skills.

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I have this problem myself. Especially when it get down to crunch time, 8th and 17th hole, perfect drive, in a postition to go for the flag, and get too aggressive and come inside too much, and pull the ball into jungle. I also tend to do this on all the par 3's. Lately I have been focusing on keeping the head outside the hands on the way back and then swing through. This is a mini Jim Furyk but it makes so much difference.

 

I said lately I have been focusing on keeping the head outside the hands. While that though has occured to me, and I have thought about it in the PRESHOT routine, I have not been focusing on it. Yesterday, I focused on it a couple of times and hit horrible shots. My best results I focused on the target, and gave a passing thought to keeping the head outside my hands. There is a huge difference in the two.

 

I fell into the swing thought trap yesterday while playing. The freaking goal is to get the ball in the hole, not keep your elbow tucked, or your wrist cocked or your sunglasses on. I was playing with a high school golf coach and after about 4 holes I started thinking about my swing and jumped on the bogey train. I ended up with a great round because it was just a few holes where I could not hit the ball and figured it out real quick. I was hitting the ball great before so stop thinking about it and hit the freaking ball in the hole.

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I used to struggle with getting too inside but don't much anymore since I changed some things. For me this all starts from the takeaway. I tended to cock my wrists too early and get the clubface too open which means I have to race to get back to square on the way down. This started with some crappy instruction having me "pre-set" the wrists then swing. I'm sure it was a drill to fix some other problem but it became a critical flaw of its own somehow.

 

To fix it I try to have the clubface "look at the ball" back to parallel (9:00). This keeps the clubface in a comparatively closed position and doesn't allow the wrists to break until late in the backswing (instead of the toe of the club being at 12:00 straight up at parallel, I have the toe at about 11:00 looking back at it). This feels more like a "Furyk" swing but on video it isn't. It all feels more upright and straight up, but that is only in comparison to the flawed laid off and open. It really helps me keep the club on a very consistent plane and helps me use my core and big muscles instead of the forearms/wrists/hands that the too inside swing requires.

 

The other drill I do is to swing the club slowly kind of like a baseball swing. Starting with the club extending straight from your navel parallel to the ground. as you go back the proper alignment of your arms/wrists/hands is very clear, if you are cocking your wrists at all you'll see it. Coming though that swing you also readily see how the wrists/hands roll to impact. Do that a couple times then address the ball and you will see how that motion transitions right into the golf swing as you take your stance and bring the club back.

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Hey guys!

 

Swing path huh? Here's my suggestions, although I do think that swing path is over-taught and ultimately a bi-product of higher level movement patterns.

 

1. Get Your Swing On Video ASAP (at 300 frames per second or higher if possible). It's always amazing to me how much feel can differ from reality, and you can identify the real cause of your problems rapidly.

 

2. Understand Ball Flight Laws. Turns out that ball flight can (and often does) lie. There is more than one way to hit a push, cut, fade, hook, pull, draw, or straight shot. Contrary to years of incorrect teaching, it's now been scientifically proven that face angle actually plays the major role in determining the direction that the ball takes off in, while swing path in relation to face angle is what determines the spin direction. It's the opposite of everything that's been taught for decades.

 

3. Research Early Extension. I've seen a lot of students who think they are coming too far inside and getting "trapped" are actually victims of this little known swing fault. Here's some more info.

 

 

Cheers!

James

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3. Research Early Extension. I've seen a lot of students who think they are coming too far inside and getting "trapped" are actually victims of this little known swing fault. Here's some more info.

 

Wouldn't this be one cause of a shank? Assuming of course the hands get pushed in towards the ball more along with the hips. I would have to think even 1" to 2" would cause a inside miss to shank on a shot from this issue.

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