Are fittings actually good for most players?

[Wheelieb]

2 minutes ago, jbern said:

Even when I compare clubs (I consider myself a club nerd adjacent), I go with the better performing club over the one that may feel better.

I was the same, until I started noticing better performance lead to better feel. That's directly for me though, as I know that feel is a subjective thing for everyone. I can say that hitting Wilson C300 irons to PXG irons to now Mizuno irons they all felt different. But those great shots and the feel with those irons also all felt different. I like the feel of the Mizuno better than the other 2. But again, feel is not a metered category to measure if a club performs well or not. I've had horrid shots but the feel of impact felt great.

[NM01]

3 minutes ago, jbern said:

I disagree with the importance of feel and would argue feel is nowhere on the radar for most new and casual amateurs. If you’re gaming a set of Nitros you aren’t concerned with feel and are just getting out to play. 
Even when I compare clubs (I consider myself a club nerd adjacent), I go with the better performing club over the one that may feel better. 

It’s actually one of the biggest things in a fitting. It’s human nature to react to a feeling. You put a club on a robot and change different things and the robot will swing the same way. You put a club that feels off on a golfers hand and they will have a change in their swing. Literally has this happen in my own fitting for the 917 driver. Fitter noticed my swing change other a shaft despite it having the same way worth and stated flex as another shaft. Same happens when the look at address is off. 
 

ive also seen it in fittings I’ve done and others I’ve watched and it’s also something fitters agree with so it’s not just me saying it. The purpose of a shaft is weight and feel.

some people are less sensitive than others. Some a couple swingweight points will cause them to alter their swing while for others it will have no impact.

There are all kinds of threads on other forums with fitters that actually discuss this.

 

[jbern]

5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s actually one of the biggest things in a fitting. It’s human nature to react to a feeling. You put a club on a robot and change different things and the robot will swing the same way. You put a club that feels off on a golfers hand and they will have a change in their swing. Literally has this happen in my own fitting for the 917 driver. Fitter noticed my swing change other a shaft despite it having the same way worth and stated flex as another shaft. Same happens when the look at address is off. 
 

ive also seen it in fittings I’ve done and others I’ve watched and it’s also something fitters agree with so it’s not just me saying it. The purpose of a shaft is weight and feel.

some people are less sensitive than others. Some a couple swingweight points will cause them to alter their swing while for others it will have no impact.

There are all kinds of threads on other forums with fitters that actually discuss this.

 

Thanks for the info. If you have a link to a good one, I wouldn’t mind reading about it! 
 

I guess I personally haven’t put much stock in how clubs feel, but maybe subconsciously I am. I’m currently testing a cobra LTDx vs PXG Gen 4 0811X. I like the feel and sound of the PXG, but the Cobra is getting me an average of 3 yards more distance and a much tighter dispersion. Maybe there’s something about the shaft/head combo of the cobra that feels better that I’m just missing. 

[NM01]

10 minutes ago, Wheelieb said:

I was the same, until I started noticing better performance lead to better feel. That's directly for me though, as I know that feel is a subjective thing for everyone. I can say that hitting Wilson C300 irons to PXG irons to now Mizuno irons they all felt different. But those great shots and the feel with those irons also all felt different. I like the feel of the Mizuno better than the other 2. But again, feel is not a metered category to measure if a club performs well or not. I've had horrid shots but the feel of impact felt great.

One if the questions a good fitter asks is how does that feel. 
 

My buddy was being fit by the long rep who went to work for pxg and is working with the lpga tour for them. 
 

He didn’t like the feel of a shaft and the fitter asked what he didn’t like. Based on his answer he grabbed another and said you will like this one better than because of the softer tip. Which he did but the results still weren’t what either liked. He grabbed another shaft and bingo they had a winner in feel and performance 

[NM01]

2 minutes ago, jbern said:

Thanks for the info. If you have a link to a good one, I wouldn’t mind reading about it! 
 

I guess I personally haven’t put much stock in how clubs feel, but maybe subconsciously I am. I’m currently testing a cobra LTDx vs PXG Gen 4 0811X. I like the feel and sound of the PXG, but the Cobra is getting me an average of 3 yards more distance and a much tighter dispersion. Maybe there’s something about the shaft/head combo of the cobra that feels better that I’m just missing. 

Look at face contact with foot spray to see where and how consistent the strike is for each,

look at numbers like launch, spin, apex, descent, face angle and face to path to see what changes.

It could be the feel, balance or even the head design 

[jbern]

3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Look at face contact with foot spray to see where and how consistent the strike is for each,

look at numbers like launch, spin, apex, descent, face angle and face to path to see what changes.

It could be the feel, balance or even the head design 

I’ll do that at my next sim session (hopefully tonight)! 

[skraeling]

2 hours ago, shailey said:

In my opinion, you should get fitted once you know you want to continue to play. Most people don't actually practice and get much better. Hey may hit oodles of balls, but never improve much. So at least let the equipment work for you to improve a little and make the game more enjoyable.

If you know you are going to commit to lessons and get better, get a fitting. Buy cheaper used equipment that can be tweaked like forged irons for lie angle. Get steel shafts in all your irons and wedges so you can't over power them and can stay in the same flex for a while and get started with the right size grip. Once you are shooting mid 80s or lower, go get another fitting and buy something much newer OR brand new.

Which is exactly what my fitter did.  I asked about graphite shafts and he said roughly verbatim, “You are pretty young and won’t lose speed for quite a few years”.

which is good news as I just started speed training and since I’m in steel shafts, even with them being regular flex I’m still not overpowering them and I’m up already 14mph compared to my speed when I was getting fit.
 

He checked my impact for lie angle, measured me for club length.  
 

here’s the actual screen from my stock 7i at the time.

Here’s my 8i at the range yesterday (ignore the 1W I just didn’t change it)

[cnosil]

30 minutes ago, skraeling said:

Which is exactly what my fitter did.  I asked about graphite shafts and he said roughly verbatim, “You are pretty young and won’t lose speed for quite a few years”.

which is good news as I just started speed training and since I’m in steel shafts, even with them being regular flex I’m still not overpowering them and I’m up already 14mph compared to my speed when I was getting fit

You play steel in your woods?    Do you swing faster than Bryson?    

[Abramos]

I think if you are just learning the game, you need to play. Go play first. Get addicted. Go take a lesson. Get better. Then when you plateau or not seeing improvement, then maybe go get fit. I know a lot of guys (and girls) who love golf, play fairly well and have never been fitted. It's just not that important to them. But if you want to improve or you start to see a drop off, a fitting can only help.

[skraeling]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You play steel in your woods?    Do you swing faster than Bryson?    

Did you see the part where I said irons?

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, skraeling said:

Did you see the part where I said irons?

Still the same point.  You swing faster with a driver than irons;  I doubt you overpower your driver.    Bryson probably swings way faster than you and plays graphite shafts in his irons.  

Overall point:  The person that was discussing speed for a decision on graphite vs. steel was way behind the times.

[Green4Spinach]

9 hours ago, kovek said:

I recently had a chat with a very experienced group of pros and they all agreed that fittings are actually bad in the long run for most of the amateur players.

 

I have no authority to correct the view of @kovek's assembled group of pros but my experience as a golfer of six months is that getting a driver fitting made a huge difference to my play off the tee. I had a hand me down Titleist driver head from a generous friend and I had a local pro shop add a shaft to it - no fitting done. I was really erratic with my drives, and SwingU reported that my average driving distance was 115 yards: some of my drives crossed 180 yards, but I also had quite a few 60 yard ground sniffers. I assumed I just could not drive. On my first swing at the fitting, the fitter said my driver was too heavy for me. I now have an Accra shaft fitted to the Titleist driver and the total weight is 21 grams lighter but with a somewhat stiffer shaft. I regularly cross 200 yards and have a registered a max of 241 yards. I no longer fear getting to the tee.

My coach's view? If I were to start running tomorrow, why would it make any sense to run in shoes that were not my size, even I am a newbie? Based on my experience, I have to concur with my coach. 

[shailey]

I will simply say this.  I am not wrong.  I just did not give all information because I was giving my opinion as to get a fitting or not. Not a technical explanation.  Honestly, it is stuff like this that drives people away from forums.  

Cast can be bent, but you better hope it doesn't have zinc in the mixture so you better know what you are bending and what the tolerance is.  17-4?  Don't heat it or force it, it will break and epoxy loosens.  431 SS.  Okay, we got a couple of degrees to deal with.  Forged can typically go as much as 4* any direction and the worst that can happen is cracked chrome.  I still own my own bending machine and have since 1994 and have no idea how many thousands of clubs I have bent over the years. 

Graphite shafts can be as strong as anything out there. I agree with you.  However, most people don't get those due to cost. Then on top of that, most golfers swing over the top.  Therefore, they have a difficult time controlling lighter graphite and the common thought process is I "overpower" it.  Also, graphite usually has considerably higher torque which can leave the face open or shut down depending on which way the club is coming from and how it oscillates due to the swing.  Terminology is subjective.

Low handicap adjusting and still playing well?  Maybe if you are close to standard.  Me?  I'm 6'4", 245 lbs with hands that are 10.5" from wrist to end of middle finger.  I cannot adjust to standard length, lie and grip size.  My miss becomes two way because of my brain trying to adjust my swing.  After 42 years of playing adjusting is bad.  So whether or not a low handicap can adjust is subjective to the person. A fitting will take a low handicap player to the next level.  

My opinion is ALL players benefit from a fitting. I won't respond to you again, internet arguments are like tits on a wart hog. 

[Wheelieb]

Since we are still talking about fittings, Club Champion just posted this video today. 
 

https://youtu.be/wLh00NmOJE4?si=8YSKYnU0BBfh1V5e

[skraeling]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

Still the same point.  You swing faster with a driver than irons;  I doubt you overpower your driver.    Bryson probably swings way faster than you and plays graphite shafts in his irons.  

Overall point:  The person that was discussing speed for a decision on graphite vs. steel was way behind the times.

maybe lead with the important part first next time

While that is 100% true, in my case it did end up working out.  I liked how the clubs felt with steel and granted I DIDNT hit graphite shafts in the irons and it wasnt for anything but I was legit just out of gas at that point.

To quote John Mulaney... "you're gonna close with... new in town?"

Also really?  "Bryson probably swings faster than you".  Like no s*** dude.  A PGA tour pro who eats sleeps breaths and shits golf is faster than me?... wow such a hot take. '

 

MY point for MY game was that at the time I fix into "x" and it worked.  Ive added for me a ton of speed and things havnt changed.  So yay me?  Come on man, im commenting in good faith here.

Edited March 7 by skraeling

[netBogey]

I take the point that getting fitted is probably a bit over-rated.  Not because they don't have benefits but because fitting is often talked about like it's an absolute necessity.  Most people can play and enjoy golf without being fitted.

That said, if you have a good fitter and can afford it, a fitting should help almost anyone. This is especially true for people who need longer/shorter clubs, grip size changes, lie angle adjustments (I think we all have that buddy who is 6'6" and plays off the rack clubs and struggles  -- I've made a lot of money off my buddy like this until he got fitted! )

I do think the fitter really does make a huge difference.

 

 

[Preeway]

7 minutes ago, netBogey said:

I take the point that getting fitted is probably a bit over-rated.  Not because they don't have benefits but because fitting is often talked about like it's an absolute necessity.  Most people can play and enjoy golf without being fitted.

That said, if you have a good fitter and can afford it, a fitting should help almost anyone. This is especially true for people who need longer/shorter clubs, grip size changes, lie angle adjustments (I think we all have that buddy who is 6'6" and plays off the rack clubs and struggles  -- I've made a lot of money off my buddy like this until he got fitted! )

I do think the fitter really does make a huge difference.

 

 

I would push back only to suggest that while perhaps not a huge difference, it is a key factor if your goal is to play your best golf. You want clubs that fit every aspect of your physique and swing style. Again, this is assuming that you also employ regular lessons and practice. Fitted clubs are no better than off the rack if you aren’t going to put in the work. 

[skraeling]

13 minutes ago, netBogey said:

I take the point that getting fitted is probably a bit over-rated.  Not because they don't have benefits but because fitting is often talked about like it's an absolute necessity.  Most people can play and enjoy golf without being fitted.

That said, if you have a good fitter and can afford it, a fitting should help almost anyone. This is especially true for people who need longer/shorter clubs, grip size changes, lie angle adjustments (I think we all have that buddy who is 6'6" and plays off the rack clubs and struggles  -- I've made a lot of money off my buddy like this until he got fitted! )

I do think the fitter really does make a huge difference.

 

 

To a point.  During my fitting I learned a few things.

• I can use standard lengths
• Standard lies

Things i never knew.  Then I got to hit multiple brands.  You can even see from my SS of my stock shaft I was consistent......ly right.  Is it for everyone?  hell no.  Anyone can play golf with off the shelf stuff. Hell.. I did for DECADES.  I wanted to play "better" golf.  I had the drive and the will to improve.  New clubs wouldn't totally fix that.  Did and have I still hit utterly abysmal shots with my fitted clubs?  LOL oh you bet.  Are my ok shots and my better shots better?  Oh absolutely. Ive got the arccos data to prove it... to a point.

Again its not an end all be all one size solution fits everyone recommendation.  Can it help you?  yes.  Its it guaranteed?  no.   for those it hits the desire, skill, whatever matrix... will it help... maybe..  hah.

This game is hard.  Stack the odds in your favor as much as you can.

[netBogey]

11 minutes ago, Preeway said:

I would push back only to suggest that while perhaps not a huge difference, it is a key factor if your goal is to play your best golf. You want clubs that fit every aspect of your physique and swing style. Again, this is assuming that you also employ regular lessons and practice. Fitted clubs are no better than off the rack if you aren’t going to put in the work. 

 

3 minutes ago, skraeling said:

To a point.  During my fitting I learned a few things.

• I can use standard lengths
• Standard lies

Things i never knew.  Then I got to hit multiple brands.  You can even see from my SS of my stock shaft I was consistent......ly right.  Is it for everyone?  hell no.  Anyone can play golf with off the shelf stuff. Hell.. I did for DECADES.  I wanted to play "better" golf.  I had the drive and the will to improve.  New clubs wouldn't totally fix that.  Did and have I still hit utterly abysmal shots with my fitted clubs?  LOL oh you bet.  Are my ok shots and my better shots better?  Oh absolutely. Ive got the arccos data to prove it... to a point.

Again its not an end all be all one size solution fits everyone recommendation.  Can it help you?  yes.  Its it guaranteed?  no.   for those it hits the desire, skill, whatever matrix... will it help... maybe..  hah.

This game is hard.  Stack the odds in your favor as much as you can.

Definitely!  Agree with all of this!