Jump to content
JMiller

Mechanical vs Instinct Putting

Recommended Posts

Our Sponsors

Well, I didn't want to continue to thread hijack the "Instinct Putting" topic, that is a good topic of information on what the method is about.

 

I define "Instinct" putting as the perception of the distance to dictate the length of stroke to produce the distance needed for a putt.

I define "Mechanical" putting as using your feel of your body and length of stroke to dictate and produce the distance needed for a putt.

 

Let me give examples of PGA Tour Players that are each. Tiger Woods (Instinct), Steve Stricker (Mechanical). Also, Let me pose a couple question for you to consider.

1) If visual perception of distance is the best way to putt and the only way to putt, how could a blind golfer become a single digit handicap?

--> A blind golfer is aimed by an assistant and given a distance on all strokes, sounds like they feel what there body is doing to produce the distance or shot needed right? Mechanical approach is the only way that they could play golf.

 

2) Why is it that in full swings were are more analytical in selecting a club and shot to hit a specific distance?

--> Putting is not romantic, it is just another collision of two objects like every other stroke in golf.

--> I know that I personally do not sit out there at roughly 200 yards and go "well it looks like the target is 202yards" then base my play off of that. I get my distance exactly up until about 30 yards out, even sometimes inside 30 yards I walk off where I want to land the ball to get a closer estimate of distance.

 

 

I think it is pretty clear cut where I stand, that is on the mechanical side of things. Which is just a feel for what you body needs to do to produce the result that I want. I don't need your eyes when I do this other then to aim. I think this gives more consistency and just allows a player to adjust faster to different green speeds at any given course.

 

I used to putt allowing my perception of distance to dictate my stroke length. Like Tiger Woods I hated slow greens and would come up short a lot of times. It is a simple fact that perception of distance is not exactly real. If you are used to a green speed of say an 8, you get on a 12 and you probably going to be long until you can get your mind wrapped around they are faster then normal and exactly how fast. You come from a 8 green speed down to a 4 now you are going to start being way short until you can some how convince yourself to hit the putt harder or something.

 

From a Mechanical stand point, you just have a 6inch back stroke on a flat green surface then you get the distance on that green that is a result of that feel of the length of the stroke. You can go okay 6in is say 6 feet on a 8 green speed, 12 feet on a 12 green speed, 3 feet on a 4 green speed. Your perception is now quickly set and ready to be used from a more analytical approach. This person would then putt a few up hill and a few down hill to see exactly what distance adjustments are made for each situation on that green. If I have my 6in putt locked into 6 feet on a flat ground of that green, I know that depending on the pitch of the slop I might need a 4 in stroke downhill for 6 feet, and a 8 in stroke up hill on the same grade of slope for 6 feet.

 

 

So whom is going to have more consistency in their putting and going to adjust more quickly to different green speeds? For me and from my experience that is going to be the guy/gal that is more mechanical. His/Her FEEL of distance is the length of the stroke rather then the perception of the distance given to him from his/her eyes.

 

 

One interesting thing that I saw last night was Big Break Academy. Breed had the 4th place finisher of Big Break Atlantis on there talking about short game. She said she uses a drill that looks at the hole for speed control, but when she did this she didn't make a single putt compared to her normal head down stance. Breed the host then had her do a drill where she stood at a 15 foot putt, closed her eyes then walked to where she thought that the hole was and dropped the ball. Breed said everyone normally comes up short, so did she by about 18".

 

What does that tell me? Just that looking at the hole only gives you a false since of actual distance and can lock you into one green speed. Take Tiger Woods as the perfect example, he struggles when the greens don't match what his perception for distance and feel has ingrained in him. I have never heard of Steve Stricker being way off weak to week or ever complain about green speeds. A green speed is what it is just have to deal with it.

 

 

Where do you fall "Instinct" or "Mechanical"? Regardless of which you are I want to hear about why you take that approach over the other. I am more interested in reading the "Instinct" putters out there and how they keep from being "streaky" on green speed changes, how they adjust to it.


KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JM, I can not really agree with your premise. You state that mechanical is more "feel" than instinct. Yet, you go on to say that you bring the putter back so many inches based on the length of putt and how much you "feel" you should.

 

I look at the hole, paying particular attention the where the ball must enter the hole based on slope. Place the putter behind the ball and while looking at the hole, adjust the aim. I am not aiming at a spot above the hole, or on the line of the putt or anything but the hole. I determine where to aim and how hard to hit the ball by pure feel of the putter in my hands. I do not think about green speed, I do not think about anything other than how it feels. When it feels right I hit the ball. I can not tell you how far I brought the putter back, I can not tell you how far it went past the ball's initial spot. It is 100% pure feel.

 

I have learned to keep my mouth shut until it goes past the hole because many times I hit the putt and immediately thought "OMG where are you going?" Thinking that I should have played it several feet in a different direction, only to watch this ball turn and pick up speed or slow down or whatever and finish in or close to the hole.

 

I did this yesterday on several holes but on one hole I had a double breaking 35'er and thought I had missed it badly. I was thinking that it would break over 2 feet right and then back 1 foot left. When I hit the putt it headed straight 2 feet right of the hole like it had been shot from a cannon. As the ball crested the hill it stayed straight, it neared the hole, and was about 3 feet from the hole still not turning and loosing speed at an alarming rate, when all of a sudden it turned left and dove for the hole and barely trickled in for birdie. The other three guys were all inside 10 feet for birdie, and just stared at me with their mouths open for several seconds. One of them said, "Ok I'll say it since no one else will, Great Putt!" another said "I would have never read it that way." I said thank you, but I wanted to say, that I would not have read it that way either, consciously.

 

It felt right and I did it.

 

So I can not agree that mechanical is more feel at all. Instinct Putting is all visualization and feel. It says to leave the mechanics completely out of the stroke and who cares about them. Look at the hole and put the ball in the hole. Set up does not matter, stroke length does not matter.

 

What matters is visualization/feel, and totally concentrating on putting the ball in the hole.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if I fully understand how you define Mechanical versus Instinct, but I can describe what gives me good distance control on putts and pitches of less than 60 yards. For putts I try to get a good visualization of the ball rolling to the hole. Ideally I will see the line and ball rolling for the full length of the putt. Sometimes seeing the ball roll only the last 5 feet or so works on long putts. It's just getting a feel and mental picture of how the ball will roll out to a stop at the hole. Then I just stroke the putt keeping that vision in my mind and trusting myself to duplicate the vision I have. On days when I'm seeing the line well, I putt well.

 

Good putting on greens of much slower or faster speeds requires an accurate visualization of how the ball rolls to a stop. It can be very difficult to make the adjustment to get that clear picture when you play greens different from what you normally play.

 

For pitches, it's about the same... visualize the trajectory, and the ball landing and rolling out to the hole. Then trust what I've visualized and make a swing that matches what I visualize the ball doing.

 

Some days it's hard to concentrate and hard to visualize the shot. And some shots are more difficult to visualize than others. On those occasions, I won't be as sharp as I am when it is easy to see the shot I want to play. I consider this Instinct. My mechanics are almost habitual because I've played for so many years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about the tempo of the stroke? I can take a shorter stroke, increase the tempo and hit it a longer distance than with a slower tempo, longer stroke. Furthermore, the tempo can change given the length and the slope of the putt.

 

I guess my definition of instinct and mechanical is different.

 

I try to not get very mechanical with my putting in terms of what the stroke is doing. I often find that if I can keep my routine down, trust my routine/stroke/read, and feel the right amount of stroke tempo, rhythm and stroke length I can usually putt pretty well. When I'm not putting well, usually I wind up going back to figuring out where I'm screwing up there.

 

For instance, a few months ago I had some struggles putting and I found that essentially my stroke rhythm was off. I have a tendency to have a slower thru-stroke tempo than my backswing tempo. I worked to fix that and I was off to the races.

 

Recently I found that when I was no longer swiveling my head to aim and look at the target like I used to. Instead of swiveling the head on a fixed point, I was turning the head and neck and that was throwing off my aim and depth perception.

 

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK


Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JM, I can not really agree with your premise. You state that mechanical is more "feel" than instinct. Yet, you go on to say that you bring the putter back so many inches based on the length of putt and how much you "feel" you should.

 

I look at the hole, paying particular attention the where the ball must enter the hole based on slope. Place the putter behind the ball and while looking at the hole, adjust the aim. I am not aiming at a spot above the hole, or on the line of the putt or anything but the hole. I determine where to aim and how hard to hit the ball by pure feel of the putter in my hands. I do not think about green speed, I do not think about anything other than how it feels. When it feels right I hit the ball. I can not tell you how far I brought the putter back, I can not tell you how far it went past the ball's initial spot. It is 100% pure feel.

 

So I can not agree that mechanical is more feel at all. Instinct Putting is all visualization and feel. It says to leave the mechanics completely out of the stroke and who cares about them. Look at the hole and put the ball in the hole. Set up does not matter, stroke length does not matter.

 

What matters is visualization/feel, and totally concentrating on putting the ball in the hole.

 

lol I figured you would be the first to jump on me about this RR. It's all good, makes for good conversation.

 

Instinct putting is about dictating the distance of your putting based on your perception visually of the distance.

Mechanical putting is about dictating the distance of your putting based on the body movement fell of the stroke.

 

What you have said above is that there is no way for a blind person to putt properly. That is kind of ironic and a bit comical to me as I know of a few single digit 100% blind golfers. They have an assistant aim them and help them get the information that a normal person like you and I would get from our eye sight.

 

This is going to be a bold statement but it is true. You do not physically need to see something to paint a mental picture or what you want the ball to do in putting and even any stroke in golf. By this I mean you can play good golf with never even seeing the course literally as you are playing it, if I sit there aim someone and give them detailed information about the hole and or green break, the distances and other information my eye sight can feed them through words, they have the ability to mentally paint a picture of what I am describing.

 

How can someone putt if they literally can not see a freaking thing physically using the "instinct putting" method? Obviously they can;t get the distance that triggers the body's reaction to the perception of distance.

 

I might say I take the putter back 6" but that is only because i can see in practice what distance I take it back, I wouldn't need to see a literally 6" because I have muscle manipulation to do the same thing. My eyes are only as a confirmation of what I am feeling in my body. That is true for all of my golf swings, I have a "feel" for a draw what my body needs to do, I have a "feel" for a cut what my body needs to do to produce these shots.

 

 

Having eye sight is only important for processing information obtained in the traditional manner playing golf and to help aim yourself at a target. From there if you have a good mental picture and a since of what your body needs to do to produce a shot, I could blind fold you and you can make the same exact swing as if you were not blind folded, maybe even a better swing blind folded as you can't see what you are physically doing with the putter head. You can only manipulate your body to the mental picture that you have developed in one way or another.

 

 

 

Like I said Tiger Woods allows his PERCEPTION of the distance (instinct putting) dictate the feel in his body that needs to produce the distance for the putt. This is the number one reason he struggles on greens that are slower then he is used to, he can't convince his brain to hit it harder then his perception. I used to putt this exact way and hated slow greens, I could never get myself to make a stroke long enough to get the ball to the hole with out a ton of practice.

 

I started using my body as a key and manipulation to dictate distance. The only visual key in that is practice 6" back visually gives a muscle feel, repetition doesn't have to be visual, you can place a bump stop behind my putter at 6in, blind fold me and I will eventually get the feel for that length of stroke that my body needs to stop at a given point then start the stroke through impact.

 

There is no way to putt blind without having someone aim you and give you slope, distance, etc information. You just manipulate your body based on that information to make the stroke.


KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another great topic!

 

I've mentioned in other places that I've adopted the approach of looking at the hole or an aim point for any putt outside of my 50/50 point (approximately 7 feet). You would think that this would make me an "instict" putter but actually I'm not. In fact for me the advantage to looking foward when I putt is that I don't see the putter going back which leads to a much more consistent putting tempo and strike of the ball. Another words my mechanics are much better than they used to be on longer putts because my eyes don't accidentally track the putter back thereby keeping my head still.

 

Getting on the practice green prior to the round is very important to me because it's there that I dial in my pace - I'll pace off 10 paces and hit putts from that distance to get a sense of how I have to stroke it to make it go that far and then adjust accordingly on the course. I always pace off anything outside of three paces on the course.

 

As I'm thinking about all of this I supposed I'd call myself an experienced putter - I've played enough different courses on enough different types of green that I trust my experience, what I've learned over the years plus my new found ability to strike the ball consistently with the putter to enable me to make putts or at least to roll the ball on line at the proper speed.

 

That's really what I'm thinking about when I putt, rolling that ball along a line into the hole, the last thought I have is a visual of me hearing it drop and picking it up out of the hole.

 

I don't know how much help all of that rambling might provide other than to say the more you practice your better the better your fell and mechanics will be or your instinct and mechanics or whatever other words you want to sub in.

 

That's what I've found at least.


Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I take issue with is the terms involved. Instinct Putting uses visual as well as physical inputs to determine the stroke. It also says to look at the hole to get your distance right and to not worry about the swing path or distance that the putter travels. At least this is my opinion of it. What I would call mechanical putting on the other hand would use a certain length back stroke and through stroke with the same tempo to hit the putts a different lengths.

 

The Dave Pelz clock method of four different wedges and different swing lengths is an example of mechanical pitching. Where using one wedge and hitting the ball based on what feels right is an example of instinct pitching.

 

Mechanical chipping is using different irons depending on the carry to roll ratio while instinct chipping is always using the 7 or 8 iron and varying the stroke length based on feel and visual clues. Of course there are variations using both.

 

Your blind person for example is not using instinct style anything. They are varying the length of the stroke and lining up the stroke based on other peoples instinct and are going strickly by mechanics. Since they are not getting any visual clues and can not even see the hole or the ball, therefore rely on someone elses senses and varying the mechanics of the stroke.

 

I will grant that there are no decent putters who do not use their instincts or feel but a mechnica putter uses the same set up, and same stroke everytime. Where instinct putters simply do whatever feels right.

 

Is one better than the other? I can not say, I know one method works better for me. Also, I would say that today there was probably not a better putter than me. 15 putts in 10 holes. Match play and finished 9 and 8. Competitors conceeded the match walking off the 10 th hole because they could not win because of my lead. Of course 6 of 7 fairways, and 9 of 10 GIR along with 15 putts meant a serious butt kicking. Double bogied the second hole after hitting the drive out of bounds, and every shot after that was textbook. Putts that I missed stopped inches past the hole. Six birdies and a double bogey and they said enough, lets go to the bar and settle up and get out of this heat.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

very interesting read this.

 

as some of you would have seen elsewhere in the forum, i am on a big drive to improve my putting. i recently read bob rotella's putting out of your mind. this would fall in the instinct way of putting.

 

the book is a good read, depending on your views of putting. i, for one, am looking forward to trying some of the things from the book.

 

but i fear guys who look at putting in a more mechanical way, won't enjoy the book much at all.


In my Clicgear B3 cart bag on my Clicgear 3.0 pushcart:

Rocketballz 10.5* stock stiff shaft

Adams Idea A3 Boxer 19*

TMag Rocketbladez 4i-6i

Mizuno MP53 7i-PW

Mizuno MP-R12 52*, MP-T11 56*, MP-T10 60*

Some old Odyssey putter (Don't laugh, it gets the ball in the hole nicely)

Bridgestone E6

 

Walking on air with my True Tours and Kentwool socks

 

No-one will ever have golf under his thumb. No round ever will be so good it could not have been better. Perhaps this is why golf is the greatest of games. You are not playing a human adversary; you are playing a game. You are playing old man par.

Bobby Jones

 

You swing your best when you have the fewest things to think about.

Bobby Jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

99.9% of people that say they have a "straight back and straight through stroke" might FEEL that way but in reality that is not literal. To have a literal straight back and straight through putt you would have to move your hands away from your body on both the back stroke and through stoke and also twist the head closed on the back stroke and open on the through stroke. The shaft is at an arc, the face most likely stays square to that arc in any ones putting stroke that is good at putting.

 

"Visual perception" of distance to dictate your stroke length and feel IMHO is "instinct putting".

Manipulation of your body to produce a stroke length and to produce a distance result is "mechanical"

 

That is what you get when you remove the details for the strokes it is a matter of what is the stimulation driving the stroke.


KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I should have called this "visual putting vs mechanical"?

 

So now that I have the terminology very clear (I hope lol), I was suggesting that tiger woods uses "visual perception" to dictate his putting stroke. He always comes up short on greens that he is not "used to putting on", and complains that he just couldn't adjust. Now have you ever gotten onto a green and thought to yourself "come on hit the putt you know it is slow!" However, you just can't make yourself do it?

 

The mind and body develop a feel for the length of putt you have visually, this is a feel that only works on a single green speed or something very close. The minute you jump from say a 12 down to a 8 now you are struggling to retrain your visual perception and feel to the actually roll distance needed. This might not be noticeable on short putts but outside of 15 feet you'll start seeing it more the longer the putt gets. I know this from experience, I hated "slow greens" for a long time. But "slow greens" are a function of a persons feel and visual perception compared to what they are used to seeing happen.

 

I am by no means suggesting that visual perception is a poor way to putt, obviously Tiger Woods has one of the best putting games (or at least he used to) in the business. I am only suggesting that the adjustments that are needed from various greens speeds from one day to the next and from course to course come a ton harder for that type of player. I would know as I personally used to think to myself all of the time "come on man hit the dang putt you know it's slow", however I just couldn't get myself to pull the trigger on making a longer stroke or give it a little more power.

 

 

 

So the flip side of the coin is taking visual perception completely out of the putting stroke. Doing something I would call "blind golfing". The only thing that you need your eyes for is alignment, once alignment is achieved then you just close your eyes manipulate your body to make a stroke of a given length. Once you have your eyes closed you have to relay on your body to make the putting motions, so you have to manipulate your body to get a length of stroke by feel.

 

Now 1in of shoulder rock might move the putter 2in away from the ball. 10 in of shoulder rock might move the putter 2 feet from the ball. This is only control how much movement your body has and adjusting the amount of movement for the result you see in distance. It is like a scientific trial before each round so to speak. 4in shoulder rock produces x amount of distance on this green. 10in of should rock produces x amount of distance on this green. You know how your visual perception locked in just by controlling body movement in a matter of 5 putts at 2in shoulder rock and 5 putts at 10in shoulder rock.

 

That is all I meant by "6inches away from the ball" I have a feel of about 3in of shoulder rocking motion. I can do that same feel with out confirming it visually, I'll shut my eyes after I am aligned and make a stroke, I can probably tell you with my eyes shut during the stroke and never looking at where the ball went, exactly where it ended up from the feel of my body at impact and the feel of the ball hitting the putter (i have a blade putter pretty easy to feel if it is good contact or not). That is simply for the amount of body movement I had and where my body was at impact and the response of the sound and feel of the ball coming off the putter.

 

 

 

The biggest Con to "instinct putting" or "visual perception" dictating your stroke length and power, is that when green speeds change drastically it will be hard adjusting quickly to the changes.

 

The biggest Con to "mechanical putting" is that some people over cook their thought process of how to move the body rather then just feeling where the body needs to stop to produce a given stroke length.

 

The biggest Pro to "instinct putting" or "visual perception" is that less goes through you mind on ow to manipulate the body and you just naturally move the body to what you are seeing more of a relaxed reactive stroke, like a baseball swing.

 

The biggest Pro to "mechanical putting" is that you can adjust to various green speeds and conditions rapidly. You get your perception information more from a scientific trail then a guess. Results are just visual confirmation of body movement.

 

 

 

I tend to lean at the mechanical side of it, have a feel of what my body needs to do to produce a shot / stroke. In putting that might be me feeling 3in shoulder rock back off the ball and through to produce a given distance of a putt. That is not me telling myself how to move just simply where to stop the movement on the back stroke and start the through stroke. On Full swings it is me standing over the ball with the shaft more in my finger for a draw, feel my body come inside to out a little and allow the left hand to turn under the right after impact. All of those feels could be done with my eyes shut. For me my eye sight is to assist me in gaining information on shot selection, reading green break, and aligning myself. After that I can close my eyes and use body feel to control the stroke or swing.

 

 

I might have mentioned this before but I made a point the only way to play golf blind is to have the ability to feel what your body is doing to produce a swing or putting stroke. You need someone to align you and give you details of the hole or putt that you can't see, but the rest is up to you.


KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just look and shoot.

 

I just look for a spot on the green I want to roll the ball to and try to give the ball just enough roll to get to that spot. The green slope will, if I have read it correctly, bend the roll of the ball to the hole.

 

In the short game, I do the same. I look for a spot to send the ball to and let the landing take care of sending the ball towards the hole.

 

On the full swing, it's still the same. I look for the favorable area within my range, shoot for it, and let the fairway roll the ball towards where I want it.

 

It's all very simplified for me and I am comfortable with the look and shoot for the whole round. I just need to be aware of how much I can do with what I have on that day and if I am right, my game will be pleasant.

 

I think too many people are complicating a simple game.

 

 

Shambles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just look and shoot.

 

I just look for a spot on the green I want to roll the ball to and try to give the ball just enough roll to get to that spot. The green slope will, if I have read it correctly, bend the roll of the ball to the hole.

 

In the short game, I do the same. I look for a spot to send the ball to and let the landing take care of sending the ball towards the hole.

 

On the full swing, it's still the same. I look for the favorable area within my range, shoot for it, and let the fairway roll the ball towards where I want it.

 

It's all very simplified for me and I am comfortable with the look and shoot for the whole round. I just need to be aware of how much I can do with what I have on that day and if I am right, my game will be pleasant.

 

I think too many people are complicating a simple game.

 

 

Shambles

 

 

I believe this is the essence of intinct putting. Point and shoot.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"instinct" / "mechanical" in a full swing is a little different conversation then putting. Regardless, either approach over the golf ball the mind set has to be free of analytical and mechanical thoughts the athlete and "instinct" has to take over. With the full swing being technical is a good thing on the driving range and in practice swings behind the ball to get a feel for what the body is doing in the swing at given positions. There is a time and a place to be mechanical or technical and over the ball is not one of them.

 

I am very mechanical in what I do on the Driving range, making sure that I FEEL in my body a position that will produce a shot. I have a feel in my body movement that produces a cut, and one that produces a draw. I have a feel on the follow through to control the trajectory as well. Once I get on the golf course I just trust those feels that I have developed from repetition of movements that are technical exact movements. I think golf instruction is based on mechanical and technical movements but the player has to learn when to trust it and turn off the thoughts.

 

Tiger Woods is a perfect example of a technical / mechanical full swing player, but he didn't win 14 majors without trusting what he was feeling in his body to produce shots. He plays poorly when he can't trust the movements he is trying to make and starts thinking about HOW to move on the course. So I agree in the full swing at a point it has to be "instinct".

 

 

In putting again it comes down to freeing your mind of HOW to move and just trusting the movements if you are a "technical" / "mechanical" player. I feel my shoulder rock up and down how much rock dictates the stroke length, the stroke length and tempo determines the distance the ball will roll for a given green. You just adjust to the amount of shoulder rock to adjust to a distance result of green speed that day.

 

I have the feeling that majority of players that putt with "visual perception" dictating the stroke that they are making for the distance that they see is going to turn ugly in adjusting to various green speeds. We see this in Tiger woods and probably why Tiger NEVER plays the week before a major at a different golf course, he has to take a lot of time to get his perception of the distance to match the feel ofthe stroke to get the ball to roll to the hole at a speed that is accurate.

 

 

Like I said I think that the mechanical approach can adjust to green speeds from day to day and course to course a lot faster and easier then the visual perception of distance type of putter. The downfall to being technical on a putting stroke is that you might mentally not trust what you are doing with your body and start thinking about HOW to move.

 

With instinct putting you don't think about how to move just how to get the ball to a visual perception of distance :)

 

 

So I am a technical / mechanical full swing player like Tiger and a technical Mechanical type putter like Striker. Not saying it is the best way to do things but it is one way to get the job done. I find it interesting that some of the best putters in the world, are also the most consistent in their strokes. How they go about getting that consistence may be a little different.


KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may have told this story before but several years ago, while still a 20+ handicapper, I went out one afternoon, after the normal Saturday 18 and the requisite post round celebration, and played 9 more holes. The goal was to not think about anything but the target, which is not the ball. I remember that on the second to last hole, a par 3, I hit the tee shot in the water. Got up and down for bogey and shot even par for the nine holes. This was my lowest round to date and was very enlightening for me.

 

That was my first step to making great strides in lowering my handicap. Because honestly, until then I had no idea how to play good golf. I had 100 swing thoughts and was trying every new thing in the world.

 

Today, one of the guys brought a Medicus 7 iron out to the course. It has really helped his swing, So of course I had to try it. After a few failed attempts I made a couple of swings with it, but decided I did not want to use that anymore. I was causing me to swing differently than I have been. I made sure that I had gotten over this before the round today. I have been hitting the ball great, the last thing I need is more mechanical thoughts.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once Im shooting for the shortest response

 

Instinct Putter


Whats in the bag:

 

Titleist 910D2 10.5 Graphite Design Y7-S

Adams 1600 proto 14.5 Graphite Design AD DJ

Titleist 910F 17 Ust Tour Black

Titleist 910H 22 Diamana Kali

Adams Idea Pro A12 4-9 KBS C Taper

Titleist Vokey SM4 46 degree w/ DG Spinner

Mizuno MP R12 50-54-58 DG spinner

Ping Redwood ZB

Ball Nike 20XI-X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feel all the way in my putting. I generally stand behind the ball and visualize how a rolling ball will be affected by break and choose a point along the adjusted line that is within a few feet from my ball... Then I set up for that point and putt. I don't spend much time at all. The whole process takes usually the amount of time I spend approaching the ball from off the green. Once I'm over the ball I don't practice the stroke. I know how that may seem strange, but it works for me. Far and away my focus is on having the right pace. Even if I judge the line horribly, the putt can be salvaged with good pace.

 

Through the rest of the bag though, I may be more mechanical in my setup, and then feel through the swing. I sort of have the impression that mechanical play jumbles my mind and scatters my focus. What I do need is consistency though. Tips anyone?


Driver: TaylorMade R9 9.5* with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft

Fairway: TaylorMade R9 TP 13* with Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ-st X flex

 

UtilityWilson Staff FYbrid 19.5* Aldila RIP Sigma Stiff

 

Irons: Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 KBS Tour X flex 4-pw (soft-stepped)

Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour TC 50* (standard grind, bent to 51*) TT DG Spinner, 56* and 60* (tour grinds, bent to 55* and 59*) Dynamic Gold Wedge flex

Putter: Yes! Abbie Tour Forged Pro Series 33" 

Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour, Maxfli U4

 

Bag: Wilson Staff NeXus 100th Anniversary carry bag

 

Backup Irons: Wilson Staff FG-17 Tour Blades with TT Dynamic Stiff 3-PW

 

Backup Utility: Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron TT Dynamic Gold R300

 

Backup Putter: Pro Gear CG 100 33" (Pro Gear is what turned into Yes!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's taken years to subconsciously build my routine, but recently I read about an excellent routine from an LPGA golfer (I forget which one, but that's neither here nor there) that I've realized is a great way to summarize what I've been settling into. She describes the "think" box and the "play" box. Before every shot, I stand behind the ball and think about what I want... As I consider the options and the conditions, I choose a target. At that point I commit fully to the shot and step into the "play" box and address the ball. As I stand over the ball, I almost never second guess what I decided on behind the ball, and if I do, I step away. Once in the "play" box, I find my posture, set my balance, breathe, and then swing. Now, I'm not the worlds greatest golfer, but I'm working on breaking the 80 mark and I've found that the emergence of a comfortable routine is huge. Sometimes I rush and lose the discipline though, and that's where I drop a stroke here or there. At any rate, I think that the "think" and "play" box method is an excellent way to commit to a shot. In the "play" box, I don't think about my hands, or feet, or hips, or really anything aside from the fundamentals of posture, balance, and rotation. The rest follows.

 

Anyone else have a pre-shot routine that's working?


Driver: TaylorMade R9 9.5* with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft

Fairway: TaylorMade R9 TP 13* with Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ-st X flex

 

UtilityWilson Staff FYbrid 19.5* Aldila RIP Sigma Stiff

 

Irons: Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 KBS Tour X flex 4-pw (soft-stepped)

Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour TC 50* (standard grind, bent to 51*) TT DG Spinner, 56* and 60* (tour grinds, bent to 55* and 59*) Dynamic Gold Wedge flex

Putter: Yes! Abbie Tour Forged Pro Series 33" 

Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour, Maxfli U4

 

Bag: Wilson Staff NeXus 100th Anniversary carry bag

 

Backup Irons: Wilson Staff FG-17 Tour Blades with TT Dynamic Stiff 3-PW

 

Backup Utility: Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron TT Dynamic Gold R300

 

Backup Putter: Pro Gear CG 100 33" (Pro Gear is what turned into Yes!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and btw, even more off topic... I really like the quote you have at the bottom of your signature. Being military myself it would be nice if this was how leadership really saw it, though in reality rank (and consequently money) or politics drives every decision it seems. Great leaders are out there, but all too often they seem to get beaten down by higher forces.

 

C'est la vie.


Driver: TaylorMade R9 9.5* with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft

Fairway: TaylorMade R9 TP 13* with Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ-st X flex

 

UtilityWilson Staff FYbrid 19.5* Aldila RIP Sigma Stiff

 

Irons: Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 KBS Tour X flex 4-pw (soft-stepped)

Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour TC 50* (standard grind, bent to 51*) TT DG Spinner, 56* and 60* (tour grinds, bent to 55* and 59*) Dynamic Gold Wedge flex

Putter: Yes! Abbie Tour Forged Pro Series 33" 

Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour, Maxfli U4

 

Bag: Wilson Staff NeXus 100th Anniversary carry bag

 

Backup Irons: Wilson Staff FG-17 Tour Blades with TT Dynamic Stiff 3-PW

 

Backup Utility: Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron TT Dynamic Gold R300

 

Backup Putter: Pro Gear CG 100 33" (Pro Gear is what turned into Yes!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, you cant use the word, "mechanical" when you talk about putting, so the whole premise of, "mechanical putting" is out.

I dont mean to get all Ty Webb here but with putting you just have to feel it and let it flow. You cant say the hole is x far away, so Im going to start the ball on x line and hit it x hard. Green speed and incline have a huge bearing on a putt, so you just have to look at it, feel it and give it your best shot. To me, putting is 99% feel and 1% mechanics (because of how simple putting mechanics are).


Whats in my Top-Flite Gamer 2019 cart bag?:

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* and Top-Flite Gamer 2020 18*

Hybrid: Top-Flite Gamer 2020 22*

Irons: Pinemeadow ZR 3.0 5-PW

Wedges: Wilson Harmonized Black Chrome 52*, Tommy Armour VCG 56*, Wilson Harmonized 60* and Wilson Harmonized chipper

Putter: Pinemeadow PGX SL

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very much an instinct putter. I can look at the distance and feel how hard to hit it. Reading breaks is iffy for me. Not very good at it.


What's In The Bag:

 

Adams 9064LS

Ben Hogan Edge CFT Ti

Ben Hogan Apex Edge 4-PW

TaylorMade ATV 50* 54*

Mizuno Bettinardi BC3 Tour Issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...